Apr 032013
 
 April 3, 2013  Posted by at 7:10 pm Finance
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Seeing Spanish and Italian bond yields drop over the past few days, it's impossible not to wonder what it is the markets, whoever they're comprised of, can't seem to figure out. Like that the Italian cloud will hang over Europe well into summer, Cyprus is falling to scandalous bits, French president Hollande is hanging on to his job for dear life because his friend and Budget minister Jerome Cahuzac was found to be an ordinary big swindler, and in Spain even the King Carlos' daughter Princess Christina is now a suspect in a financial scandal (PM Rajoy's antics will resurface soon).

The EU has been feeding the corrupt PIIGS (find a spot for a C in there for Cyprus) everybody else's tax money, and it has done so knowingly and willingly – well, either that or blindingly stupidly-. Now that the loot has been divvied up, everybody else gets to pay a second time. Or so is the plan. Which will fail.

So what's happening in Italy 5 weeks after the elections? The short answer is: not much. They haven't been able to patch together a new government, because various parties refuse to form a coalition with various others. Leftie Bersani refused rightie Berlusconi's advances, and outside-the-system Beppe Grillo, as he's said all along, refuses to work with any and all of them.

Which is why a few days ago President Napolitano threw together a team of 10 advisers who are supposed to tell him how to make things work after all. Since there is no feasible coalition between existing parties, they will probably as a last resort advise him to try a technocrat government of one kind or another. That will not be appreciated, because many Italians will argue that they might as well hold on to the Monti technophiles while the next elections are being prepared. Things have changed since Monti was pushed forward, and a second Wall Street/IMF/World Bank made man could lead to anarchy, not smooth sailing.

Interesting to see that the 10 men adviser group has people from the leftie and rightie factions (as well as lawyers etc.), but none from Grillo's Five Star M5S. Also interesting is that Napolitano has left one option undiscussed: M5S have offered to form a government, which might survive with the support of Bersani. Word is that Grillo hasn't even rejected being prime minister himself.

The President's term expires May 15. Parliament will have to elect a new president, with a possible first presidential vote as early as April 18. But whoever's followed Italy over the past few months can easily understand how hard that vote will be. It's absolutely possible that not only will there be no government in place 6 weeks from now, but that beyond that there'll be no-one left to mediate the process either. While Berlusconi and Bersani want old and corrupt political stalwarts for president (Romano Prodi?!), Beppe Grillo has suggested Gino Strada, a celebrated war surgeon operating in global combat zones who's been vocal in rejecting Rome's support for several NATO operations including the invasion of Afghanistan.

Apparently ECB chief Mario Draghi did make a phone call to Napolitano, telling him, no doubt, to stay the course and make sure there's going to be a euro-friendly government (no Grillo!). Trouble for Draghi – and Merkel and Brussels – is, Napolitano, an 86-year old former communist, has nothing to lose. He can bide his time while no solution is found, and tell Grillo to form a government anyway, ideally one week or so before his term is up. One thing Napolitano cannot do, because his term is almost up, is dissolve parliament.

Cyprus? Let's see…, a 2-week old government that cut a deal with the troika. A little over a week later, the Finance minister responsible for the deal has resigned and president Anastasiades' son in law stands accused of transferring €21 million out of Laiki Bank to a UK bank one week prior to the deal (along with at least 100 other well connected savers).

Less than a week after the bailout deal was announced, Cyprus was handed extra time to implement the deal's measures, and depositors are cut for much higher percentages than "estimated". This is a set pattern, not an unfortunate course of events. It's like Groucho's line: "These are my principles!. And if you don't like them, I have others…". Turns out, the entire deal was a con game from the get go, and the entire eurozone is well on its way there too.

The IMF "gives" €1 billion because Cyprus has such a great set of economic "reform" measures, i.e. fire who you can, cut pensions and benefits where you can, raise taxes and sell your most valuable public assets. Cypriots have no idea what's going to hit them. Oh, and the president announced that a casino will be opened soon.

Michalis Sarris, the Finance minister who brokered the troika deal and resigned, had a 30-odd year career at World Bank, and has an earlier term in the same post from September 2005 till March 2008. He was also a longtime non-executive chairman at Laiki Bank during the time it made the investments that brought it down, and became more actively involved at the bank in 2012 to "cleanse" it in order to comply with the troika bailout. Either a man who knows how to get the job done or a man who raises a few suspicions, take your pick.

You know, and this is not the first time I argue the point, the EU and the euro could well have been successful; just not with the one-dimensional-thinking religious zealots that make up its present leadership structure. There's nothing wrong with European unity in itself. But that one dimension – i.e. the refusal to discuss anything other than pushing forward with "the project" despite serious and reasonable doubts and questions – is not a minor flaw, it's a fatal one. If you want to make something work, you will always have to leave space for – thinking about – the possibility that it won't. Brussels does no such thing. That right there is the seed that breeds inevitable failure.

The EU has resorted to trampling its weakest members. That's not something that started with Cyprus, it's merely the next step in the process. "Official policy", as dictated entirely by the richest member states, could from the very beginning only have worked in times of unbridled wealth and growth, since these would have temporarily kept inbuilt flaws from view.

As soon as the financial crisis first reared its head in 2006/2007, though, this game was up. From then on in the EU as a governing body has started to react as your own body would do if for instance you were exposed to extreme cold for a prolonged period of time (hypothermia). That is, in order to save the core, blood flow to the extremities (in the EU case, the peripheral countries) would be cut off, eventually resulting in the amputation of toes and fingers.

The Roman empire didn't fall because of just one cause, but this hypothermia-like dynamic certainly played a big role. The more Rome resorted to squeezing the peripheral regions to maintain its own wealth, the more resistance it encountered. Until the periphery sacked the entire empire.

The best, or make that the only, advice for southern European countries is Get Out! before you're liquidated as so many frozen gangrenous digits. If you don't, the moment will inevitable come when the core accuses you of infecting it with life threatening afflictions, thereby morally justifying to itself unceremoniously dumping you in the great azure yonder.

The people of Italy, Cyprus and Spain should neither be seen nor treated as mere essentially disposable extremities, but the way the EU was first set up and then governed made it inevitable that they would be at the first sight of adversity. And since these countries don't have the political power to affect the necessary changes in Brussels and Frankfurt, their only option is to quit. Or be suffocated completely, but there is no way all PIIGS plus Cyprus (and add a second S for Slovenia) will accept that, because southern Europe is as loaded with historic pride and independent spirit as it is with corruption. There's no way there won't be a first country that will elect to leave the eurozone. And it'll be all dominoes all the way down from there.

Sure, it hasn't happened yet, though I've said for years it would. But has anyone seen the manufacturing numbers for Europe, including the core countries, this week? The entire European economy is falling like a stone, and the worse it gets, the more the core will attempt to squeeze the periphery. At some point it will become clear that there are only 3 core nations left (Germany, the Netherlands, Finland), and 14 peripheral ones. And then the periphery will start doing the squeezing. That is what we should all really start being afraid of, for there be the seeds of bloodshed. And that blood will spill around the world.

Artwork: Wikimedia – Hermann Winkler Siemens – "Broken heart allone under thausends"

 


Home Forums The Only Way Forward For Europe Is Splittsville

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April 3, 2013 at 7:10 pm #8390

Raúl Ilargi Meijer

Seeing Spanish and Italian bond yields drop over the past few days, it's impossible not to wonder what it is the markets, whoever they're comp
[See the full post at: The Only Way Forward For Europe Is Splittsville]

April 4, 2013 at 2:04 am #7327

Formerly T-Bear

Put the fork in the EMU, its done.
The creation of the Euro was a landmark achievement on the par with landing men on the moon. Consider what a common currency amongst seventeen divergent national sovereign economies entails. For the first time prices for labour, goods and services have a common measure and a common value in a political association of some 503 millions population, the monetary union is itself of greater population than the United States by some tens of millions population. The European Monetary Union is by far the wealthiest group in the world. And all that is being wasted by political incompetency well into the region of criminal. The display of economic ignorance is itself world class, there being nary a PhD amongst the leaders nor their advisors that is worth the sheepskin upon which their diplomas are inscribed. This lot reflect quite poorly upon the academic institutions responsible for their education, funding for such academic failures should be reduced to the lowest levels until they clean their stables and again produce the excellence they once were capable. Their production of economic morons must be brought to a stop.

Each country originally joining the EMU had sovereignty of their currencies in common. It is inconceivable that these countries could consider complete surrender of that control over currency without there being that same ability in the institutions being created unless these negotiations contained a fraudulent flaw that went unnoticed. For some forty years a pseudo economic gospel has been in vogue, a theology camouflaged under empty and deceptive rhetoric of neoliberalism, its acolytes legion and ensconced in every conceivable position to promulgate their received economic wisdom. As the generations changed and experience gave way to subsequent leaders, TINA (There IS NO Alternative) offered removed all option from consideration. Neoliberalism became the only option and poorly educated politicians had no choice.

The prospect now being faced has two basic options. It can continue with the program as it is being presented and will completely destroy the economy and wealth for generations. Or it can return to the drawing boards and redesign the existing institutions in a manner which restores each national economy a semblance of control of the currency used in each economy. No mandarin sitting in Brussels is capable of such control, no number of mandarins are capable either. To insist that they can is to invite failure at the first opportunity. The choice is now, does Europe go down the toilet, or do the leaders pull their heads out of their asses (or be replaced by real economic competence) and work out a policy that allows the body of nations of the EMU to control their economies and currencies in a common rational manner. The clock is ticking… and peons don’t buy Mercedes, very often.

April 4, 2013 at 10:54 am #7334

TheTrivium4TW

>>You know, and this is not the first time I argue the point, the EU and the euro could well have been successful< <

The euro is extemely successful at what it was designed to do, which is to covertly asset strip society for the benefity of the Debt Money Tyrant class and their assets, be they human or corporate.

To everyone else, Debt Money Tyranny is a prima facia fraud.

Debt Money Tyranny

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?tr=77

This is the Trojan Horse mechanism used to enslave entire nation state, no, an entire planet.

The Debt Star, if you will.

A History of the World in Our Time
By Carroll Quigley
PART SEVEN
Part Seven: Finance, Commercial and Business Activity: 1897-1947
Chapter 19: Reflation and Inflation, 1897-1925

http://real-world-news.org/bk-quigley/07.html

We have already seen that valiant efforts were made in the period 1919-1929 to build up an international political order quite different from that which had existed in the nineteenth century. On the basis of the old order of sovereignty and international law, men attempted, without complete conviction of purpose, to build a new international order of collective security….
p 315

In addition to these pragmatic goals, the powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. The system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank of International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks, which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank, in the hands of men like Montagu Norman of the Bank of England, Benjamin Strong of the New York Federal Reserve Bank…sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world (p.324; emphasis added).
p 324

Who Remained Behind the Scenes and Operated in Secret

It must not be felt that these heads of the world’s chief central banks were themselves substantive powers in world finance. They were not. Rather, they were the technicians and agents of the dominant investment bankers of their own countries, who had raised them up and were perfectly capable of throwing them down [confirming Bernanke is a complete sock puppet]. The substantive financial powers of the world were in the hands of these investment bankers (also called “international” or “merchant” bankers) who remained largely behind the scenes in their own unincorporated private banks. These formed a system of international cooperation and national dominance which was more private, more powerful, and more secret than that of their agents in the central banks. This dominance of investment bankers was based on their control over the flows of credit and investment funds in their own countries and throughout the world. They could dominate the financial and industrial systems of their own countries by their influence over the flow of current funds through bank loans, the discount rate, and the re-discounting of commercial debts; they could dominate governments by their control over current government loans and the play of the international exchanges. Almost all of this power was exercised by the personal influence and prestige of men who had demonstrated their ability in the past to bring off successful financial coupe, to keep their word, to remain cool in a crisis, and to share their winning opportunities with their associates. In this system the Rothschilds had been preeminent during much of the nineteenth century, but, at the end of that century, they were being replaced by J. P. Morgan whose central office was in New York, although it was always operated as if it were in London (where it had, indeed, originated as George Peabody and Company in 1838).
p 327-329 (not sure of exact page right now)

A very pleasant cycle of flotation, bankruptcy, flotation, bankruptcy began to be practiced by these financial capitalists. The more excessive the flotation, the greater the profits, and the more imminent the bankruptcy. The more frequent the bankruptcy, the greater the profits of reorganization and the sooner the opportunity of another excessive flotation with its accompanying profits. This excessive stage reached its highest peak only in the United States. In Europe it was achieved only in isolated cases.
p 337

The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and a use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups. This concentration of power, however, could be achieved only by using methods which planted the seeds which grew into monopoly capitalism.
p 337

Quigley considered himself allied with this group of “monopoly capitalists,” as he calls them. They let him in the bowels of the Council and Foreign Relations to produce this historical document.

April 4, 2013 at 1:07 pm #7335

Formerly T-Bear

@ #7047
What a magnificent display of ignorance you have presented. Another of your long winded diatribes insisting on conspiracy, keep repeating and your comments are soon to be known as Triatribe4TWTripe. You are a waste of space and bandwidth and contribute absolutely nothing to any discussion at this site. Those subscribing to conspiracy theories are to be found almost exclusively among those whose lives are factually deficient and knowledge free, conspiracy is the only coherent part of their lives. That is what your persistent follies here announce whenever your nom-de-blog appears. Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool rather exposing your mind and remove all doubt.

April 4, 2013 at 1:10 pm #7336

Raúl Ilargi Meijer

Cypriot archbishop urges finance minister to quit

Archbishop Chrysostomos II, who had urged for eurozone exit over an onerous bail-out, declared on Sunday that finance minister Michalis Sarris and central bank governor Panicos Demetriades should step down after allowing the EU-IMF lenders to devastate the island’s banking sector in return for a €10bn (£8.4bn) loan.

The missive is the latest public criticism to come from the island’s religious leader since his failed bid to avert a raid on Cypriot savings by offering the church’s entire wealth to shore up the struggling economy.[..]

“If I was satisfied, I would not have called on them the other day to resign and leave, because they have the same views as the troika [of international lenders],” said the archbishop.

April 4, 2013 at 1:15 pm #7337

davefairtex

I have been doing a lot of work in recent days poring over charts of the deposits of the banks in the eurozone. And I have some interesting conclusions.

There are 3 main groups with bank deposits: other banks, households, and corporations.

1) Households tend to be quite slow – last even – to move deposits
2) Banks tend to be very fast to move deposits.
3) Corporations fall somewhere in between.

So homeowners deposit money mostly for safety and partially for interest, corporations do it for both safety and ease of doing business – but why do banks deposit money in other banks? It almost doesn’t make sense.

Its all about higher interest rates. If you are a German bank, paying very low rates (0.55%) for your overnight deposits, you can (if you are a nimble and clever banker) deposit those same funds in a Cyprus bank and receive quite a bit more. How much more? Depends on the risk you want to take:

German Overnight Deposit: 0.55%
Cyprus Overnight Deposit: 1.1%
Cyprus Savings Deposit: 2.8% (1 year, redeemable at notice)
Cyprus Time Deposit: 4.9% (1 year, agreed maturity)

And if the Bank of Cyprus doesn’t go under, this is FREE MONEY. Its what bankers do – “make the spread”.

So with this in mind, take a look at the following chart of “foreign deposit sources” in Cyprus.

Black line: Eurozone Banks
Green line: Companies & people outside the EZ (Russian Mobsters, British…Mobsters?)
Red line: Banks outside the eurozone
Blue line: Companies & people within the EZ

Look how rapidly the black line has plummeted!

My guess is, banker overnight deposits were removed rapidly, while banker time deposits left more slowly. But the goal was, for the eurozone bankers to retrieve all their money, prior to the bail-in.

I have always wondered “why wait” to resolve these banks? If we know the banks in Cyprus are in trouble, why play games?

If you had control over the process, and didn’t want your (CORE) banks to suffer losses (since they would most definitely be “uninsured depositors”), putting off resolution until those cross-border deposits were all safely back home would make a great deal of sense. And then once they were gone – bam. The gate comes down.

In contrast to how the foreign banks reacted, here’s what the households did in Cyprus – the regular people.

April 4, 2013 at 2:53 pm #7338

Formerly T-Bear

@ #7050
Can I ask about the fall in savings and investment (similar to your first graph) occurred that brought down Japan and the other Asiatic Tiger economies, was this vanishing of capital the culprit in devastating all those economies?. Was the only tiger economy to recover the only one to install capital controls? Should reassessment of World Bank, International Monetary Fund and Washington Consensus policies be undertaken? If not, cui bono?

April 4, 2013 at 8:10 pm #7339

p01

Formerly T-Bear post=7039 wrote: The choice is now, does Europe go down the toilet, or do the leaders pull their heads out of their asses (or be replaced by real economic competence) and work out a policy that allows the body of nations of the EMU to control their economies and currencies in a common rational manner.

Oh, boy, they have a choice! I’m so excited!
Can I ask about this choice or it this another type of long winded diatribe except of the industrial economic dogma summoning some type of mythical skittles-generating creature?

Without credit, there is no industry

Steve from Virginia

April 5, 2013 at 10:56 am #7342

TheTrivium4TW

Formerly T-Bear post=7048 wrote: @ #7047
What a magnificent display of ignorance you have presented. Another of your long winded diatribes insisting on conspiracy, keep repeating and your comments are soon to be known as Triatribe4TWTripe. You are a waste of space and bandwidth and contribute absolutely nothing to any discussion at this site. Those subscribing to conspiracy theories are to be found almost exclusively among those whose lives are factually deficient and knowledge free, conspiracy is the only coherent part of their lives. That is what your persistent follies here announce whenever your nom-de-blog appears. Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool rather exposing your mind and remove all doubt.

Hi T-Bear,

I’ve read your post looking for any kind of information or logic particulate and observed it is bereft of any substantitive content.

It is, however, one long winded ad hominem logical fallacy. The momdern day Sophist would be ashamed at your Elephant in the China shop application of false logic. At least have the self respect to try and couch the fallacy in some kind of subtlety.

Do you know what a logical fallacy is? If so, why did you choose to rest your whole argument upon such empty sophistry?

Did you lack an argument of substance and were left with no choice? If not, why even argue with no foundation? Are you psychologically afraid of the idea wealth and powerful people have gamed the system at the expense of everyone else, aka, human history?

You do know the feudal lords didn’t slave all day to make sure the peasants were well cared for, right? Right?

I would recommend you spend some time and educate yourself on the various fallacies so your statements do not solely rely on such – you know, removing all doubt and all… coupled with projecting.

If you take issue with anything I post, please present and share a specific piece of information or logic that you believe contradicts what I’ve put forth. I’m happy to have a discussion.

My hypothesis is that your ad hominem logical fallacy attack was emotionally driven since there is no way logic or reason would result in what you posted. If so, do consider the following:

You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]

Search your essence to determine if you are a “true believe” that rich and powerful would never conspire to use their wealth and power to put other people at disadvantage because, if so, you will never be able to observe reality as oberseved by Adam Smith in the Wealth of Nations circa 1776.

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty or justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary.”
Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, Chapter X, Part II, p. 152

Does Adam Smith exhibit stunning ignorance as well?

Now, back to the actual data I originally posted which twisted you mind into a logical fallacy frenzy…

Einstein defined the height of ignorance thusly…

“Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”
~Albert Einstein

Since you claim not be ignorant, I presume you must have investigated the source documents, source data and source logic that I originally posted.

Please share your specific concerned with that information…

Let me help you get started…

The money flow of debt based money is clearly laid out in this PDF…

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?tr=77

Are you able to articulate what, specifically, you think is wrong with that money flow or the obvious conclusion that society never has enough money to pay back the money rentier class that quite literally rents a nation’s money supply to the nation?

If that chart gives you trouble, perhaps this short 3 minute expose of debt based money will help clarify any lapses in understanding:

Consequences of Fractional Reserve Banking 2) – Poverty – Debt is not a choice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juQc0rLdB-E

Who was Carroll Quigley, for which institutions did he teach, which future President of the United States credited Quigley as one of his top two influences, along with JFK, and why, specifically, is his Magnum Opus, Tragedy and Hope, to be discredited?

Since I quoted Chapter 19, what were your thoughts on the rest of Chapter 19? You did atleast skim it before lighting and lobbing your irrational ad hominem bomb, right?

Or, you can just call me names, tell everyone how great and supreme you are and pretend that approach is the key to understanding the reality in which you live.

I am trying to help you by providing source documents of high value and clearly illustrated logic. If you contest either, do explain why? Otherwise, embrace the Matrix that envelopes you…

“The Matrix is a [debt money] system, Neo. That [debt money] system is our enemy. When you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of people we’re trying to save, but until we do, these people are still a part of that [debt money] system and that makes them our enemy [because they can't admit they've been conned by the monetary system even after they've been shown and can't muster a response].

You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged [the pain of reality is too much to bear]. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.

- Morpheus

Some Resources of Value:

http://www.triviumeducation.com/

http://triviumbinder.blogspot.com/

The audio section is excellent

http://triviumbinder.blogspot.com/p/audio-section.html

Intro to the Ultimate History Lesson

http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-376-richard-grove/

The Neglected Genius of John Taylor Gatto

http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/631_-_The_Neglected_Genius_of_John_Taylor_Gatto_%28Extended_Childhood_and_Western_Spirituality%29

The Underground History of American Education

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/

I believe I have laid down a pile of pearls before you. I DARE you to fully investigate (actually listen and read – OMG!) and try to cogently elucidate an argument that significant value and understanding is not contained therein.

I hope you surprise me instead rolling in the mud you already irrationally tried to project my way.

For everyone else, there is intellectual gold in them thar hills…

April 5, 2013 at 12:17 pm #7343

Formerly T-Bear

Since there is obviously nothing of substance in your lengthy cut and paste cheetodust screed, it will remain unread. It is presented by a charlatan, filled with opinion, substantiated by opinions of other ignorants, and glorified by reams of self reference. It would be amusing if it weren’t so sad. Sadder still, all such rantings do is divert others from the good information provided by the site’s hosts and quality observations of qualified commentators. Everything you have ever produced here has been shite, give it a rest.

Note to hosts: As long as this charlatan and several others are supported by this site, please understand why no further donations will be forthcoming from this quarter. How does one log out after submitting?

April 5, 2013 at 12:57 pm #7344

TheTrivium4TW

Formerly T-Bear post=7056 wrote: Since there is obviously nothing of substance in your lengthy cut and paste cheetodust screed, it will remain unread. It is presented by a charlatan, filled with opinion, substantiated by opinions of other ignorants, and glorified by reams of self reference. It would be amusing if it weren’t so sad. Sadder still, all such rantings do is divert others from the good information provided by the site’s hosts and quality observations of qualified commentators. Everything you have ever produced here has been shite, give it a rest.

Note to hosts: As long as this charlatan and several others are supported by this site, please understand why no further donations will be forthcoming from this quarter. How does one log out after submitting?

More personal attacks and a boycott against me?

That’s a first. No, not the unsubstantiate, irrational personal attacks. Rather, the boycott threat.

Bizarro world.

April 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm #7345

davefairtex

T-Bear -

Please stop acting like a troll. I think Trivium is sometimes interesting, and sometimes a bit eccentric, but he’s usually polite – and polite discourse is the mark of a civilized man.

I certainly prefer to read his stuff over yours.

Just my opinion.

April 5, 2013 at 7:24 pm #7348

Ken Barrows

Maybe Southern Europe should leave the Euro, but those countries won’t anytime soon. They perceive that having their own currency would lead to unaffordable energy imports and economic collapse. Staying on the Euro road will get collapse eventually, too, but the politicians in these countries have probably not spend any time thinking what a viable alternative would look like because they are too enthralled with the promises of corporate globalization.

April 5, 2013 at 9:07 pm #7349

hugho

Thanks for the post, one among the thousands predicting the end of the Euro kids, the CPIGS(I have always hated the double i; Cyprus to the rescue of that clumsy acronym.) OK Ilargi. If they are dead, why don’t they die? Looks like we will have some pretty big acronyms coming up…
PS: Is there someway you can delete some of the rude ad hominem comments cluttering up a really good website?

April 5, 2013 at 11:31 pm #7350

backwardsevolution

Ilargi – great post!

davefairtex – great investigative work! You said:

“If you had control over the process, and didn’t want your (CORE) banks to suffer losses (since they would most definitely be “uninsured depositors”), putting off resolution until those cross-border deposits were all safely back home would make a great deal of sense. And then once they were gone – bam. The gate comes down.”

And, of course, they do have control over the process. This would require “collusion” or “cooperation” between affected parties. Definition of “collusion”:

“Secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, esp. in order to cheat or deceive others.”

Formerly T-Bear, there’s that damn “conspiracy” word again. Nah, it couldn’t be. Or could it?

Good work, Dave!

April 6, 2013 at 12:37 am #7351

backwardsevolution

kak·is·toc·ra·cy

Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.

April 6, 2013 at 2:20 am #7352

davefairtex

backwards -

Thanks for your kind words!

It does indeed appear that there is an actual conspiracy here – one where a significant percentage of well-connected deposits were given time to flee prior to the denouement.

In retrospect, it was very interesting how much talk there was initially about Russian Mobsters. I think they ended up being the useful distraction – and perhaps even the bag-holders. No mention was made of the hot money from the eurozone banks that had already left. I guess that would have spoiled the whole thing though.

The Dog that Didn’t Bark, as it were.

April 6, 2013 at 4:14 am #7354

Gravity

(whispers)
gravity is a recursive algorithm.

I have to support Triv here,
he has some difficult work dispensing red pills to the uninformed.
The money supply is a pyramid scheme, whereas central banking has always been a racket and is increasingly becoming a crime against humanity.
It is conceivable this arrangement could have come about by interacting market forces with no conscious intent, yet certain historical accounts of the monetary system, such as the Jekyll island meeting, do clearly reveal an ideological agenda of secrecy with undertones of criminal conspiracy.

Conspiracy is a requisite of criminology,
criminology of sociology.

It is impossible to account for certain empirical facts, historical events and organisational structures, such as the holocaust or the maffia, without an appeal to criminal conspiracy on a massive scale, involving the collusion and collaboration of goverment apparatus and private parties driven by congruently illegal profit mechanisms.
Such massive compartmentalised conspiracies involving thousands of quasi-coordinated actors are known to happen, maybe as a function of clustered sociopathy.

Sorry to interrupt.

April 6, 2013 at 11:49 pm #7356

ted

Just a quick comment here maybe ya’ll can clear up things for me…I listened to an interview with Stonleigh and Kunstler and one thing that surprised me was when Stonleigh said that the U.S currency has about 10 years before fall. What I don’t understand is how is the U.S. going to stand while the rest of the world falls…everything is so intrinsically connected that it seems like we are all in the same boat…It is like the rich Obama fans who have money in the stock think everything is just great about the world…Also CNBC is reporting that the FED

April 7, 2013 at 4:41 am #7358

Gravity

It isn’t useful to try and explain every anomalous occurence or market function in the economy by criminal reasoning alone, but a comprehensive conspiracy narrative conjoining disparate financial and economotive actors has some provable predictive functions from time to time.

I do appreciate Trivium’s enthusiasm for presenting this part of the truth concerning the monetary system, but he does preach to the choir sometimes with the somewhat repetative presentations of the fractional debt system and the assertion that this system was deliberately organised for malicious purposes of extortion, racketeering and economic control by the financial oligarchy. But when faced with the public history of the central banking establishments, this assertion of malice aforethought can hardly be denied.

The debt system, fractional reserve banking and the privatised exploitation of money and credit, especially the occult operation of keeping the systems inherent instability and insolvency hidden and unexposed to public debate, did actually produce synergistic or symbiotic functions with the common good for a while, enhancing trajectories of growth under certain conditions of credit expansion. Now these conditions are absent, the money masters have turned completely parasitic, and to some extent, their intent to save their own assets in opposition to the common good may be felt in all happenings involving banking.

There is such a thing as organised evil,
but who organises the organisers?

P.S.
The war in heaven was an inside job.

April 8, 2013 at 2:24 am #7360

rapier

In the 1890′s the US was on a solidly metals based monetary system. At the same time wealth distribution reached its most extreme point. The so called Robber Barrons, the owners of the first great industrial enterprises, and some others, the top 10% held 90% of all assets. Now under a monetary system based upon the most ephemeral money ever conceived wealth distribution is again reaching the vast imbalance, Banana Republic level of the 1890′s. One has to look beyond the monetary system to account for extreme wealth inequality.

Any system is doomed to be captured by the few for their own benefit. My Catholic upbringing, my faith lost but the moral and ethical foundational teachings intact, says that no system is perfect or perfectible for human are imperfect. The problem is, as is always is in any system, that we are told we must do this and that to serve the system. A system that has evolved which serves the interests of the fewest so serving it has it exactly backwards. Any system must serve the maximum number of people.

It is not a feature of pure fiat money to serve the interests of the few just as the gold system was not designed to serve them. In either case the system has been captured to serve them and so it will ever be with any system. If justice and fairness demand the system be torn down to serve the many it will not be the design of the system which would produce that result but rather it would be the wresting of power from the few by a change.

April 8, 2013 at 11:52 am #7362

TheTrivium4TW

rapier post=7073 wrote: In the 1890′s the US was on a solidly metals based monetary system. At the same time wealth distribution reached its most extreme point. The so called Robber Barrons, the owners of the first great industrial enterprises, and some others, the top 10% held 90% of all assets. Now under a monetary system based upon the most ephemeral money ever conceived wealth distribution is again reaching the vast imbalance, Banana Republic level of the 1890′s. One has to look beyond the monetary system to account for extreme wealth inequality.

Any system is doomed to be captured by the few for their own benefit. My Catholic upbringing, my faith lost but the moral and ethical foundational teachings intact, says that no system is perfect or perfectible for human are imperfect. The problem is, as is always is in any system, that we are told we must do this and that to serve the system. A system that has evolved which serves the interests of the fewest so serving it has it exactly backwards. Any system must serve the maximum number of people.

It is not a feature of pure fiat money to serve the interests of the few just as the gold system was not designed to serve them. In either case the system has been captured to serve them and so it will ever be with any system. If justice and fairness demand the system be torn down to serve the many it will not be the design of the system which would produce that result but rather it would be the wresting of power from the few by a change.

“Gold and money are separate things, you see. Gold is the trick mechanism by which you can control money.” — Thomas Edison, New York Times, December 6, 1921

“It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30,000,000 in bonds and not $30,000,000 in currency. Both are promises to pay; but one promise fattens the usurer, and the other helps the people. If the currency issued by the Government were no good, then the bonds issued would be no good either. It is a terrible situation when the Government, to increase the national wealth, must go into debt and submit to ruinous interest charges at the hands of men who control the fictitious values of gold.” — Thomas Edison

The root cause is an apathetic populace that has turned over its rulership to a small cadre of self interested people.

When the people demand to be a chumptocracy, I put forth that the system used to enslave is of little consequence beyond timing of the enslavement.

So, we can be chumps. How to make a nation of chumps into critical thinkers with an active intellectual self defense mechanism is, IMHO, the cause du jour. The implementation is not so obvious, though.

The mechanism of enslavement is debt based money turbocharges with fractional reserve lending.

1. I lend you $20 @5% interest w/ collateral.
2. In one year, you owe me $21 (each side gets a book keeping adjustment of $1)
3. The only way you can physically pay me back is IF I ALLOW YOU TO PAY ME BACK, OTHERWISE, I BANKRUPT YOU!
4. I don’t want to steal $20 worth of collateral, so I fractionally reserve out $20 more at interest with the same problem, but the first $20 is easier to pay off, so I “kicked the can,” so to speak. But that creates exponential debt growth as any steady state system will require unpayable debts to be paid back and will bankrupt the host society.

I won’t post my charts again, but if you search this thread for “debt money tyranny” and “weapons of mass debt” you will see the visual version of what I explained with words.

The people at the top are greedy, Machiavellian criminals, but they can only get away with it because we are too greedy to bother with being involved in how our government is run… can’t be bothered… until we wake up homeless. THEN the brilliant and wise American people will wake up out of their apathy and drug induced emotional stupor.

That’s the masses, though. Individuals are making “manning and womaning up.” I’m investigating aquaponics to see if I can implement that method to generate some food. Aquaponics and solar power might be a good off the grid combination.

April 8, 2013 at 1:17 pm #7363

davefairtex

Triv -

One comment. Fewer quotes are better. Employing a bucketload of quotes in my opinion gives your post the unfortunate appearance of an Appeal to Authority, as if your facts alone aren’t able to stand on their own.

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