Debt Rattle February 1 2019


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    Vincent van Gogh Outskirts of Paris: Road with Peasant Shouldering a Spade 1887   • Death Of 95% Of Indigenous People In Colonization Of America
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle February 1 2019]

    Dr. D

    Death Of 95% Of Indigenous People In Colonization Of America Cooled Earth (RT)

    I’ve seen some stunning non-science but this takes the cake. I know of no archeologist who would contend North America was at all agricultural. Yes, 90% of natives were wiped out by first contact (probably fishermen/traders from Portugal and Ireland) but the height of the civilization was never agricultural to begin with. At all. The plains were called the “Great American Desert” even by plow-wielding colonists for a reason: even with oxen and steel plows it was never expected to be farmable. The desert southwest speaks for itself. The central valley of CA never had massive cities or fields, and neither did the southeast. The few agricultural places on the continent are far more noteworthy by their existence than their absence: the Winnebago area, the progenitors of the pre-horse Sioux, the farming Hopi and Navaho, and the Iroquois. Mass areas, such as the many, many Algonquin peoples, essentially weren’t agricultural at all. And even the Iroquois at their height were barely agricultural in Western terms: they used rotating slash-and-burn townships which granted, were massive, but against a virgin forest from end-to-end of New York, from Boston to Cincinnati, from Maine to Atlanta, you’d be hard-pressed to notice their ecological impact against the greater “wild” space.

    So their premise is – and let’s grant that CO2 not only has some effect, but an enormous one, far greater than any science so far has attributed – the 30 million essentially non-agricultural peoples, in one continent over a planet virtually uninhabited by today’s standards caused global cooling? Who makes up this crap? The Mongol invasion and the collapse of Europe, falling back in the forests of the Brothers Grimm of an ACTUAL agricultural area? I could barely buy that since the entire rest-of-planet remains nothing but rainforest and savannah, but North America? You couldn’t get within 10,000 miles of proving that, even with a computer model turned up to “11” on every parameter.

    Okay, let’s suppose it’s true that the agricultural 10% of 0.03% of the world’s population in 1500, or 3 million people can affect the entire planet’s temperature in just 20 years. Hey, the CO2 taken up by corn is identical to the CO2 taken up by an acre of chestnut, but let’s assume science doesn’t apply here: everybody else does. So when the Colonists arrived, their 3 million did NOT affect the weather? I remind you that NY harbor IN THE SALT WATER froze regularly into the 1800s. They put the 3M people back and had 100x more agriculture, but apparently it had no effect? Okay, so suppose this was true, and worked on a steady cause-effect. So by the time they colonized through to St. Louis (capturing the same CO2 in the wheat fields as the prairies used to do, but WHATEVER) and cut down all the forests of California, the temperature should have been 500,000 degrees. Instead, the cold remained record through the 1850s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and right up to 1930s and 40s – 100 years of modest, if any, effect. That’s why this is literally the worst idea I’ve ever seen in print.

    I’ve got a far more likely idea: whatever the cycle is — and NASA’s sun-cycle guys pick up speed every day – the overall cooling CAUSED the Mongols and Vikings to get starved out, restless, and invade. They CAUSED the diseases and collapse, which as a 2nd effect, collapsed Europe and re-grew the forests. Surely madness, right? Except we can see and even prove this in the fall of Rome, which was WRITTEN DOWN, in FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS, that the sun didn’t shine for a year and crops failed, making them weak enough to be attacked by similarly desperate barbarians. But why believe Caesars and world-famous authors? They probably just made it all up. Certainly British researchers do, and get caught again and again with no punishment.

    OMG I thought I had read some bone-headed made-up garbage before, but this takes the cake. You can’t just make up history ‘cause you feel like it. But what am I saying? Every day they do, and every day I read it, and every day somebody believes it without cross-checking anything, even so much as to click two sites and watch a 10-minute video made of cartoons and 3rd-grade words to make it easy.

    V. Arnold

    Hmm, the vast granaries, discovered by the colonist’s armies; described by Howard Zinn, are fresh in my mind. They were summarily destroyed; every one found!
    The three plant growing method of the eastern nations; mid, southern, and northeastern; is a tonic in my dreams.
    Corn, beans, and squawsh; grown together in mounds; remain a genius method to this day.
    What is also fascinating is the wealth of information still being uncovered, by an amazing diversity of individuals; keep on trucking……………..


    I’ve used three sisters planting myself in Canada 10-odd years ago.

    I’m not terribly interested in the global cooling thing (you’d need reliable info from all continents at the time to make any claims on that), but totally apart from this, I always liked the slash-and-burn practices native Americans appear to have used extensively and with great expertise and success.

    I guess what it comes down to is you either have to deny there were 60 million people living in the Americas 500 years ago, or you have to explain how they were fed.

    Another thing Charles Mann says is that when Europeans got to the New England/Boston area they found it so busy they sailed further south to the Virginia’s.


    Not one of us could live on minimum wages.
    • Greece Raises Minimum Wage By 11% (K.)
    raises the minimum wage from €586 to €650.

    • 25% of Greeks Cannot Afford To Heat Their Homes (K.)

    What would


    give up when you income is not enough?

    Dr. D

    Is it 60 million now? Just a few years ago 30 million was considered a 10x overstretch.

    Yes, I would have to disagree. In my area they have the names of the old towns and their relative sizes, which although not even a nomadic people as the Algonquin were, would scarcely put numbers up to 10M–it’s being super-generous, and that’s even assuming — wrongly — that any place from Ohio to Oregon would have any substantial population at all.

    The native population here was possibly equal to the Colonial one — no surprise since the agricultural methods were similar, being generous again since the colonists had 4-field rotation, dug wells, barns, plows, and draft animals. For example, however, the Seneca fielded some 2,000-5,000 soldiers in the Revolutionary War, making them equal to the NY Army, almost the most powerful army on the continent. That suggests their population was similiar, i.e. 200,000.

    And this was the most agricultural, most powerful, most numerous tribe in North America. This also matches any archeology ever found in this extensively covered area. 50 x 200,000 would be population 10 million, which is hilarious if you’ve ever driven from Nebraska to Death Valley, but let’s pretend 30 million for fun.

    What would you have to do to increase population over those levels? Find any city, anywhere. London or Rome barely clipped 1,000,000 and we need 30 more of them to exist without noticing. We need the roads and canals that supply them, the fields that feed them, the silos that house the grain. Although Sullivan’s March showed astonishing prosperity of thousands of acres, and scores of prosperous modern towns feeding those 2,000 warriors, it was no more developed than the ensuing colonists who barely numbered 30 million. The whole US didn’t exceed 60M until 1870, and I THINK we might have been more developed, with more visible cities then.

    It’s a pipe dream. He’s making it up. Just like green energy, 60 seconds on Google will prove how unlikely and unscientific such fantasies are. I’m not saying the old conventional history is right. I’m just saying there is an objective reality and the laws of physics and thermodynamics apply to it.


    I know very little about most of the Indigenous nations of North America, but in my neck of the woods (Algonquins, Montagnais, Abenakis, Mic-macs) it was basically all stone-age hunter-gatherers. Somewhat to the south-west, the Iroquois Confederacy and the Hurons were semi-nomads, doing slash and burn agriculture for maybe 10 years before depleting the soil and moving away – when they weren’t trying to genocide their neighbours, or being massacred by them..

    I would also note that the Iroquois of the Sullivan expedition were no longer the pre-European Iroquois: they had started to use tools and techniques from the Europeans.

    One last remark: the Mayan world was an advanced civilization that had a population of millions. That civilization had collapsed on its own centuries before the Europeans ever came.


    Death Of 95% Of Indigenous People In Colonization Of America Cooled Earth

    I echo previous comments that this is utter garbage. At the moment Mankind is responsible for about 3.5% of global CO2. I doubt the global population at this time was one billion, so 0.5%, but it was all renewable energy so carbon neutral, or 0.0%!

    All too often I find those who believe in man-made [insert name of disaster here] will suspend any intelligent thought or critical thinking and believe ANYTHING.

    For example renewable energy should never need a subsidy because the energy produced will pay for it. I am sickened by the waste of fossil fuel used to create these ‘perpetual motion’ machines, and the harm it does to people who face large increases in electricity prices.

    Similarly, the idea that plugging millions of electric cars into the grid has no consequences, Ignore the fact that they actually need electricity so new power stations will be required, also the whole grid will need to be replaced to cope with the amounts of current. In any country it will cost hundreds of billions, and of course use huge amounts of fossil fuel.

    There are other areas where people will uncritically believe anything, no matter how absurd. The main areas at the moment are Trump, Putin and Russia where there is vast amounts of propaganda.

    All this seems to coming together in to one solution : Nuclear war with Russia

    This is not as bad as it seems for anyone worried about man-made climate change :

    The massive reduction in population, say 4 to 6 billion, will almost eliminate the use of fossil fuels and the CO2 they produce. Civilisation is unlikely to recover so it will be a long term solution!.

    Wildlife should recover relatively quickly as they breed rapidly, and evolution will fill in any gaps. I can’t think of many targets in the southern hemisphere so it may have the best survival rates.

    The US would like Russia to start the war, which is unlikely, so a false flag could be organised. Possibly an EMP weapon over America. The public has been primed so it is all ready to go!

    It may seem drastic but to stop man-made climate change sacrifices will be needed.

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