Debt Rattle January 16 2023

 

Home Forums The Automatic Earth Forum Debt Rattle January 16 2023

Viewing 14 posts - 41 through 54 (of 54 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #126318
    Dr. D
    Participant

    “it would do little to solve the problem because the problem is not primarily the bad guys nor what the bad guys do. The problem is our own personal responsibility in ENABLING those bad guys to do what they do”

    Benton nails it. And that’s why it’s so hair-pulling frustrating and so very very long. “The Plan” isn’t FOR them. The “Plan” is for US. WE are the ones who need to see it and act.

    …Unfortunately most here saw between 10 and 30 years ago. Sucks to be us.

    This is what I mean by WE are the Government, WE are the Army. And the founders said too. Just that nobody understands what that means anymore. WE say This is a job, for anybody else. I will have anything done as I long as I don’t do it. The FBI is evil and I hate guns and policemen which is why I’ll give all jobs I should be responsible for to the government to be executed with guns by the FBI and Police. They do whatever I say and will never turn on me and be first against the wall when the revolution comes. This is a concern. So when the Leftists get taken out like the limp-wristed punks they are, you don’t think they have a replacement in mind?

    Those Davos guys have the AI. They have the data. They run the scenarios, the predictions. They know from AI they can fly to Davos in a tax free private jet, with a vax denier pilot, eat Black Rhino steaks and darter snail escargot, tell you all about it in public, order in undersage girls planetwide, dose them with X, do meth, and Russia won’t attack. You won’t do a damn thing.

    Here’s the problem though: AI isn’t some all-powerful wish-fulfilling sugar daddy. It’s like an alien life form, essentially unknowable, with motivations and responses that are impossible to predict or quantify. A Daemon. A machine consciousness with no thought toward man? Or worse – and we know this is true – it was designed and programmed by irrational psychopaths themselves. It has all their strengths…and all their weaknesses. Every blind spot they have is magnified. Every oversight is compounded. And they put it in near-complete control. They programmed it with their greatest lies, and now it cannot help but lie to them.

    I’ll watch. It will blow itself to kingdom come in the most spectacular way possible. However the process remains that it takes a lot of us with them.

    or, you can TELL GPT what you want, wait less than 5 seconds, and review 30 options.”

    Sure. Have you seen “The Gods Must Be Crazy”? Take the time. It’s about Africa, in Africa. In it, a tribe discovers a coke bottle. It may not be much, but it’s cool, makes music, holds water, smooths snakeskins it’s all things to all people…one problem: there’s only one of them.

    GPT is just a dumb server, not a living AI. It has banks, racks, repairs, maintenance staff, electricity costs… You can have one. But there’s only one. There’s only so many questions per hour it can take. Do you think it can really answer all 8 billion questions of all 8 billion people do all 8 billion peoples’ work? This is like the automated chess robot of the 17th century. Really it was just a tiny guy inside the chess table box. WE are that chess guy , Mr. Third administrator in the AT&T building in Brooklyn, Queens. We the server administrators and power linemen, the UPS hard drive delivery truck. Yes, it CAN do these things, but only as a show, a magician’s sleight of hand. And the distraction here is the volume.

    The other is: garbage in, garbage out. It’s only an imitator. It only knows the old.

    Aaaaaand soon we won’t have a grid or internet to worry about, so…

    Why? Well among other reasons, just hearing these words said make me want to blow it all to h—l just because. Because? Because they destroy being human with poor imitation. Just like the angels and a certain one who went his own way in a poor imitation of God. Very poor indeed. Poverty, inside and out. What do you think us intentionally creating a bad imitation of a flawed humanity will bring? It’s own solution, with its own collapse by its own internal contradictions.

    #126319
    Oroboros
    Participant

    The AI semi-sentience issue vs ‘real humans’ always needs to be considered in relation to Idiocracy.

    The dumbing down of the Sheeple is proceeding at near Warp Speed.

    Look at Presidementia Pedo Joe, could he be ‘deep faked’ in a video having him announcing a ‘preemptive’ nuclear strike against Russia and the majority believing it?

    Why fer-sure!

    Duh-mericans can be fooled big time by AI right now!

    Look around, smell the half-caf extra cinnamon latte

    #126320
    Polemos
    Participant

    When I taught philosophy courses, I did not walk the path taken by majorities of academics, where you “anonymized” the papers and graded them blind. All the professors who raved about this technique framed it as a way to counter biases. I instead got to know my students by engaging them in conversations, had them write papers by hand (where I compared their writing style with their personalities, their perspectives, their participation in class, and learned a lot about all these relations), and made myself face my biases and prejudices by addressing them up front through owning them.

    By humanizing and paying attention with them, I found it not only more difficult for them to “cheat” by plagiarizing, but they found they also learned that by writing out their thoughts by hand rather than typing them, they got to know their own thinking better and found more of themselves through the process. It became easy to even figure out who did the process completely by hand and who typed it up first then copied it. Students who needed accommodation did get it, but more often they wanted to just write without any.

    I think the fashion has done a lot of harm to students and professors, who both begin to think of essays as blocks to assemble rather than a genuine examination of one’s own thoughts by trying out an answer (hard to say at times that Montaigne’s being entirely serious, for example). The students sitting at a computer are easily tempted to let the machine do all the work; the professor grades in denial of where their perspective encounters the strangeness and uncanny familiarity of a student, and also unwittingly succumbs to the temptation to use the machine to judge. In place of this human encounter, the machines go about turning both student and professor into niches the machines need to continue their happy functioning and reach fulfillment.

    So when I read professors or folks wondering how GPT will alter the classroom and lead to cheating, I just note that “the blind” leads the blind. They are already training one another to be unaware of the abyss, the endless beyond, beneath ánd behind each other’s lives and expression, they are already abstracting from the sweat and stench of one another’s presence as people in a classroom, so adding in a further machine aids that process along, and whether that is “good” or “bad” comes down to whether or not you think a machine has a responsibility to love authentically and a capacity to fulfill that commitment in the way that you take students and professors to have the same responsibilities and capacities.

    #126321
    Oroboros
    Participant

    Noticed more desperation from the Collective Westard presstitutes regarding Ukronazilands prospects as winter deepens.

    Empire of Lies
    MSMediawhores headline:

    “Russia Doesn’t Do Well in Winter Warfare”

    Russian soldiers Peak in Winter

    Russian Paratroopers live for Winter

    Locked and loaded

    No AI here

    There’s nothing artificial about this kind of intelligence

    .

    #126322
    WES
    Participant

    Polemos:

    Your comment reminded me of my transition from writing everything on paper to then learning to write everything on a computer.

    Naturally, I learned to print, then hand write on paper because there where no personal computers. I also learned to do math, first in my head, then on a slide rule. (I learned my multiplication/division tables with my Father while having my baths!)

    Then mid-way through post secondary school calculators replaced the slide rule.

    Then a decade later personnel computers came of age. First, I would write down on paper what I wanted to enter into the computer. Then slowly but surely I learned to compose my words on the computer. This wasn’t an easy step. It took some time to transition from paper.

    The computer then allowed me to edit my words more quickly than I could ever do on paper, so I then stopped writing my words on paper using only the computer instead. The computer really opened the floodgates to my writing as one could quickly enter in one’s thoughts in any order as they popped into one’s mind, and then later re-organized them into proper order, edit, and spell check (before auto-correct).

    I have never looked back once I mastered writing on a computer, nor would I want to go back to the not so good olde days!

    #126323
    Afewknowthetruth
    Participant

    No surprise:

    ‘RECORD QSBO WEAKNESS

    Latest NZIER Quarterly Survey of Business Opinion recorded that a net 73% of businesses expect deteriorating conditions in coming months – the weakest reading in the survey’s history dating back to 1961..’

    https://www.interest.co.nz/business/119187/review-things-you-need-know-you-sign-tuesday-few-rate-changes-business-confidence

    #126324
    WES
    Participant

    jb-hb:

    Thank you for writing 5 of 4 today. This is what made the light blub go off in my head about the significance of GPTchat and the recent progress of AI.

    Thanks to Greco, Ram, Red, Dr. D, and Zerosum for your comments too, helping to drive home what jb-hb has been saying.

    Sorry, Raul if GPTchat/AI hijacked today’s TAE. But today would never have happened if you hadn’t done your critical part in making it happen. Life is full of sometimes wonderful surprises!

    #126325

    “This can’t go on,” thought Ransom. (C.S.Lewis “Perelandra”)

    You can’t get people to fight a war they don’t even know is being waged against them, and who may now be too damaged to see it or care.

    #126326
    Antidote
    Participant

    @polemos

    Philip Wylie ‘The Magic Animal’ . Hard core.

    My old pal John McAfee once said:
    “How do we see Truth?
    We have to question every one of our beliefs, even drop them completely.
    If they were true, you will see that truth instantly re-appear around you.
    If they were not, then they were your blindfolds and good riddance.”

    Looking is not the same as seeing. It may lead to it but maybe not. I could wax Quantum but my care for this machine world is waning and I’m good at it.

    #126358
    John Day
    Participant

    Thanks for the threads into threats from sociopaths at the helm of AI: jb-hb, Dr.D, DBS, Wes…
    I seem to be writing an essay.
    Just me. The regular physical-body guy…

    D.U.M.B.s, deep underground military bases, have been knocking around in my peripheral consciousness for days as I did winter-gardening and woodwork in Yoakum, and read through TAE comments before bed at night. Richard Nixon threatening to spill the beans on the CIA and Jerry Ford never went away.
    There is a thread through this, and it includes Catherine Austin Fitts’ “parallel society” and however many trillions have gone missing from the Pentagon and HUD budgets, and it includes “continuity of government”, and therefore 9/11.
    It’s not a “theory”, rather it’s a “hypothesis”. We can just test it by watching passively for the rest of our lives. Maybe there are other tests of such a hypothesis which might present…

    Richard Nixon “knew who killed John” and wanted to blackmail the CIA with that knowledge, and he feared the CIA, so let’s accept the meme that Dulles Inc. “the agency” was instrumental in arranging that deed, and the regime change it produced. George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA in 1976 – 1977, under Ford. I have read that Cheney and Rumsfeld began the continuity of government work under Ford, but it says here that they worked on it formally under Reagan/Bush: https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1525/9780520929944-016/pdf
    During the 1970s Cheney was assistant to Rumsfeld in high positions and rose to White House Chief of Staff under Ford/Rockefeller. Cheney worked with Halliburton, and knew the score on oil. His “energy policy” under Bush II was to control all of the energy in the world, militarily and economically.
    I hypothesize that the Bush Crime Family has been prominent since the Opium Wars, contributed to assassination attempts against FDR (and maybe an eventual success) and was core to the “Military Industrial Complex” which Ike warned about on his way out. George H.W. Bush always said he couldn’t recall where he was on November 22, 1963, but some other people recalled seeing him in Dallas that day.
    You may recall (or not) that “The Limits To Growth” was fairly well accepted as conventional wisdom during the Arab Oil Embargo years of the 1970s, up through Jimmy Carter’s sweater-wearing administration, but repudiated by Ronald Reagan, when Bush was VP and running secret wars under the Iran-Contra deal.
    The Limits To Growth was always intended to influence society, to influence policy. The Club of Rome was that kind of “club”, and there was no real secret that oil was a finite resource back then. Nuke-sub Captain Carter had been an acolyte of Admiral Rickover, who was a proponent of M. King Hubbert’s work about peak-oil timing, which was correct, as US oil production peaked in 1971 or 1972, as Hubbert had predicted.
    I hypothesize that Cheney et al always accepted The Limits To Growth as factually obvious, as Deng Xiao Peng reportedly did. Furthermore, the Cheney-Bush cabal reasoned that society would not openly accept the changes in consumption, which Carter had sincerely advocated, not even the little things.
    Under cover of “great communicator” Reagan, who was working to remove the nuclear threat, Cheney/Rumsfeld worked hard on “continuity of government”, in case of a decapitating nuclear first strike from Russia. Hey, it seemed prudent enough… This was a parallel government, complete in every detail, and appears to have been activated and operated on 9/11/01, though facts remain “classified”.
    The “deep state” remained well and healthy under the Clinton administration, which had always coordinated well with the Bush family. The “Global War On Terror” plans were all made up in advance of the 9/11 events, and were immediately activated that day, including the memory-holing of the $US trillions missing from the Pentagon budget, revealed on 9/10/01 by Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld.
    Unfortunately, the wing of the Pentagon where the Office of Naval Intelligence was reviewing all those books was the same one hit by the disappearing airliner, which some think was a cruise missile with a penetrating warhead.
    Deep Underground Military Bases have been under construction since the Russians got the bomb in the US, and were already a fact-in-the-ground in the UK in the first and second world wars. Their locations and budgets have always been classified secrets. Contractors would always know that any work on such national security projects must remain secret. It was always “normal”, part of doing government work. It would not be unusual for these bases to be large, to have underground railway connections, to have extensive life-support systems, and to have vast supplies of food, fuel and weaponry.
    Our thoughts usually stop about there, because we just can’t get confirmation, so how can we go on?
    We can war-game a scenario in which there is a surface catastrophe and the government/military retreats to command-centers and barracks deep underground for an extended period of time.
    What happens on the surface in this time? That would be important in war-gaming a survival and dominance scenario for the “continuous-government”. What if the surface society were not wiped-out, but was able to continue in enough places, with enough factories, farms, fuel and electrical generation to be able to remain essentially functional, at least in some areas? Would that be “good” or “bad” for the “continuity-government”? It seems like it might be either “good” or “bad”, depending upon whether the surface-dwellers accepted the underground rule, or rejected it as “unconstitutional”, or even “criminal”.
    Military planners would seek to maintain full-spectrum-dominance in all scenarios. The DARPA-net would need to maintain lines of communication and command, but how relevant would the local “commanders” remain when people were all having to solve their own problems on the surface?
    How could control of surface inhabitants be maintained? It would have to be well-established ahead of time, or they might have to be wiped out, which would be a vast loss of their work-utility. The underground authorities would not want to expend much stored food or fuel to maintain control/obedience on the surface. Something cheaper, something to just eliminate non-compliers cheaply would be more utilitarian. Controlling communications should be on the short list. AI controlling surface communications would be a very useful feature. Holding some key to life-itself would be extra special good, but people, plants and animals are self-sufficient under normal circumstances. That one is hard to figure out.
    What if everybody had some kind of illness that could be treated long term and you had all of the medicine? Just thinking out loud here. What are the possibilities? Are there any? Who could look into that?
    What if almost all the surface dwellers in the US got killed, but not in other places, and people came from other places to take over the surface of the US? How could they be controlled? Could they be made obedient? What if they were the Chinese army?
    There are so many scenarios to run, and the need to be dominant runs through all of those scenarios as one of the primary considerations. The need for the surface population to be healthy and productive is secondary to the need for surface dwellers to be universally subservient. That much is kind of like what we see around us every day, especially in the age of COVID, but the subservience is challenged by renegades, who seem to be gaining.
    What now?

    #126369
    John Day
    Participant

    As threatened “D.U.M.B. Prepping” post:
    https://drjohnsblog.substack.com/p/dumb-prepping

    #126372
    John Day
    Participant

    Ah, Substack links are uploading today, so here is some more of that post.
    There’s a picture of clear glass bowls, “cloches” over tomato seeds, this winter’s early-planting experiment.

    D.U.M.B.s, deep underground military bases, have been knocking around in my peripheral consciousness for days as I did winter-gardening and woodwork in Yoakum, and read through TAE comments before bed at night. Richard Nixon threatening to spill the beans on the CIA and Jerry Ford never went away.
    There is a thread through this, and it includes Catherine Austin Fitts’ “parallel society” and however many trillions have gone missing from the Pentagon and HUD budgets. It also includes “continuity of government”, and therefore 9/11.
    It’s not a “theory”, rather it’s a “hypothesis”. We can just test it by watching passively for the rest of our lives.
    Maybe there are other tests of such a hypothesis which might present themselves as possibilities in our lives.

    Richard Nixon “knew who killed John” and wanted to blackmail the CIA with that knowledge, and he feared the CIA, so let’s accept the meme that Dulles Inc. “the agency” was instrumental in arranging that deed, and the regime change it produced. https://drjohnsblog.substack.com/p/cia-did-watergate
    George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA in 1976 – 1977, under Ford. I have read that Cheney and Rumsfeld began the continuity of government work under Ford, but it says here that they worked on it formally under Reagan/Bush: https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1525/9780520929944-016/pdf
    During the 1970s Cheney was assistant to Rumsfeld in high positions and rose to White House Chief of Staff under Ford/Rockefeller. Cheney worked with Halliburton, and knew the score on oil. His “energy policy” under Bush II was to control all of the energy in the world, militarily and economically.
    I hypothesize that the Bush Crime Family has been prominent since the Opium Wars, contributed to assassination attempts against FDR (and maybe an eventual success) and was core to the “Military Industrial Complex” which Ike warned about on his way out. George H.W. Bush always said he couldn’t recall where he was on November 22, 1963, but some other people recalled seeing him in Dallas that day.

    You may recall (or not) that “The Limits To Growth” was fairly well accepted as conventional wisdom during the Arab Oil Embargo years of the 1970s, up through Jimmy Carter’s sweater-wearing administration, but repudiated by Ronald Reagan, when Bush was VP and running secret wars under the Iran-Contra deal.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth
    The Limits To Growth was always intended to influence society, to influence governmental policy. The Club of Rome was that kind of “club”. There was no real secret that oil was a finite resource back in the 1970s. Nuke-sub Captain, Jimmy Carter had been an acolyte of Admiral Rickover, who was a proponent of M. King Hubbert’s work about peak-oil timing, which was correct, as US oil production peaked in 1971 or 1972, as Hubbert had predicted.

    I hypothesize that Cheney et al always accepted The Limits To Growth as factually obvious, as Deng Xiao Peng reportedly did. Furthermore, the Cheney-Bush cabal reasoned that society would not openly accept the changes in consumption, which Carter had sincerely advocated, not even the little things.
    Under cover of “great communicator” Reagan, who “did not believe in limits”, and who was working to remove the nuclear threat, Cheney/Rumsfeld worked hard on “continuity of government”, in case of a decapitating nuclear first strike from Russia. Hey, it seemed prudent enough… This was a parallel government, complete in every detail, and appears to have been activated and operated on 9/11/01, though factual details remain “classified”.
    https://www.fema.gov/sites/default/files/documents/fema_sltt-cog-guidance_070921.pdf

    The “deep state” remained well and healthy under the Clinton administration, which had always coordinated well with the Bush family. The “Global War On Terror” plans were all made up in advance of the 9/11 events, and were immediately activated that day, including the memory-holing of the $US trillions missing from the Pentagon budget, revealed on 9/10/01 by Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld.
    Unfortunately, the wing of the Pentagon where the Office of Naval Intelligence was reviewing all those books was the same one hit the next day by the disappearing airliner, which some think was a cruise missile with a penetrating warhead. The investigators died suddenly.

    Deep Underground Military Bases have been under construction since the Russians got the bomb in the US, and were already a fact-in-the-ground in the UK in the first and second world wars. Their locations and budgets have always been classified secrets. Contractors would always know that any work on such national security projects must remain secret. It was always “normal”, part of doing government work. It would not be unusual for these bases to be large, to have underground railway connections, to have extensive life-support systems, and to have vast supplies of food, fuel and weaponry.
    Our thoughts usually stop about there, because we just can’t get confirmation, so how can we go on?

    We can war-game a scenario in which there is a surface catastrophe and the government/military retreats to command-centers and barracks deep underground for an extended period of time.
    What happens on the surface during this time? That would be important in war-gaming a survival and dominance scenario for the “continuous-government”. What if the surface society were not wiped-out, but was able to continue in enough places, with enough factories, farms, fuel and electrical generation to be able to remain essentially functional, at least in some areas? Would that be “good” or “bad” for the “continuity-government”? It seems like it might be either “good” or “bad”, depending upon whether the surface-dwellers accepted the underground rule, or rejected it as “unconstitutional”, or even “criminal”.
    Military planners would seek to maintain full-spectrum-dominance in all scenarios. The DARPA-net would need to maintain lines of communication and command, but how relevant would the local “commanders” remain when people were all having to solve their own problems on the surface?

    How could control of surface inhabitants be maintained? It would have to be well-established ahead of time, or they might have to be wiped out, which would be a vast loss of their work-utility. The underground authorities would not want to expend much stored food or fuel to maintain control/obedience on the surface. Something cheaper, something to just eliminate non-compliers cheaply would be more utilitarian. Controlling communications should be on the short list. AI controlling surface communications would be a very useful feature. Holding some key to life-itself would be extra-special good, but people, plants and animals are self-sufficient under normal circumstances. That one is hard to figure out.
    What if everybody had some kind of illness that could be treated long term and you had all of the medicine? Just thinking out loud here. What are the possibilities? Are there any? Who could look into that?

    What if almost all the surface dwellers in the US got killed, but not in other places, and people came from other places to take over the surface of the US? How could they be controlled? Could they be made obedient? What if they were the Chinese army?
    There are so many scenarios to run, and the need to be dominant runs through all of those scenarios as one of the primary considerations. The need for the surface population to be healthy and productive is secondary to the need for surface dwellers to be universally subservient. That much is kind of like what we see around us every day, especially in the age of COVID, but the subservience is challenged by renegades, who seem to be gaining.
    What now? Can societal control , especially “trust” be renewed somehow, before it degrades into persistent self-reliance?
    Can better lies be made to work, or will it be necessary to resort to partial truths this time (a slippery-slope)?
    It is critical to re-establish a good, durable control-narrative, “noble lie”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie#:~:text=In%20politics%2C%20a%20noble%20lie,as%20described%20in%20The%20Republic

    #126373
    John Day
    Participant

    Here is another scenario, a catastrophic scenario, in which D.U.M.B.s would also serve well, the scenario of bad space weather from things like “giant meteor”, magnetic-field collapse and magnetic pole reversal, solar micronova, and/or another Carrington Event.
    This is 17 minutes of plausibility. How much should we consider this scenario? I consider it, but don’t know how I could afford to prepare against this as a possibility. It would take a lot more money than I have. The presentation is alarmist, but this is alarming if it comes to pass.

    It has all happened in the “distant past”. (Well, the Carrington Event was in September 1859 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event )

    This is an explanation of the modern timeline of catastrophism, especially relating to magnetic polar shift, which was researched in the 1940s by the OSS (CIA precursor), as pertaining to over the pole navigation of aircraft and ICBMs. Some of that research data got out, and was “debunked” by the CIA, though Albert Einstein had independently come to think that the earth changed rotational axis at times before he died. There have been further developments since then, such as the suddenly more rapidly weakening of earth’s magnetic field between 2000 and 2020, and not reported upon since then, though measurements are ongoing. One might presume the now-classified magnetic field strength information to be disturbing to the lay public…

    #126403
    ram
    Participant

    The earth’s rotational axis has not changed since its formation. The magnetic field has moved and even flipped polarity many times. In recent years the magnetic poles, have been drifting rather significantly. Also, certain places, e.g. Western Australia, have major magnetic field differences. This is all known geophysics.

    Meteor strikes, increased vulcanism, and ice cap melting are also known to happen, for various reasons, and sometimes even together. Since the earthquake intensity increases with any and all of those events, being deep underground doesn’t do anyone any good. Talk to some hard rock underground mining engineers about “Rock Bursts” and similar “entertainments”.

Viewing 14 posts - 41 through 54 (of 54 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.