Debt Rattle June 14 2022


Home Forums The Automatic Earth Forum Debt Rattle June 14 2022

Viewing 33 posts - 41 through 73 (of 73 total)
  • Author
  • #109669

    Charles always has some interesting insights.

    The global lockdown revealed several great truths to many idled workers: 1) I’m wasting my life slaving away for an employer to whom I am disposable; 2) trying to own the upper-middle class lifestyle is not worth the sacrifices required, and 3) there are ways to work less and still get by, and live a better life doing so.

    Once the rats are no longer interested in the rewards because they’re out of reach, they jump off the wheel. Once the tax donkeys flop down in exhaustion and ask why they’re working so hard to pay outrageous taxes and fees, they lose interest in carrying their heavy load ever again. When debt-serfs stop and calculate their chances to pay off their debt and reach upper-middle class Nirvana, they bail on the entire project.

    D Benton Smith

    What is the real downside, even danger, of so-called Artificial Intelligence (AI)?

    Hmmm. Maybe that’s a little blunted. Let me put it a different way.

    Why Is Artificial Intelligence A Dead Certain Pathway To Certain Death?

    Hmmm that sounds a little extreme, too. Maybe I should soften it some for increased “General Audience” acceptability.

    How’s this : Artificial Intelligence will kill you. Every time. Guaranteed.

    Hopefully I now have at least a smidgin of your attention for a moment (even if the attention is contrary, or the moment is short.) I’m accustomed to that because it’s so inevitable that I can’t afford to care much one way or the other. All I want is for you to receive and understand an idea, and then the job is done. Do with the idea what you will. My job is to inform, not please. No desire for wealth, fame or getting elected to something, either.

    First of all (a minor point, but not to be overlooked) the term Artificial Intelligence is bullshit right out of the gate. It’s a just a Madison Avenue (or CIA, or both !) buzzword. It’s Advertising, Hype. Sales & Marketing Malarkey. I strongly advise using extreme caution when dealing with anyone who tries to sell you on the notion of artificial intelligence. It is an invention, a purposefully created lie told with the underlying purpose of selling you a defective pig-in-a-poke-sack, for the benefit of the salesman, at what the salesman reckons will be your expense. If you buy into it you will not just be ripped off. You could easily become dearly departed.

    There is no “intelligence” in so-called “Artificial Intelligence”. None. Not even a little bit. Nada. Zip. Zero.

    An AI is nothing but a device. The device can be constructed of almost anything. It can be composed of ideas (policy, law, info, culture) shared by a group, or it can be made of text on paper, or of metal gears and levers, or electricity streaming through conductors, It can even be made of organic material. What the device does is display calculated outcomes based on the rules and data that are “programmed” and fed into it. The rules can be as simple as tossing a coin to display heads or tails, or as complex as a computer displaying the predicted path of a hurricane.

    They can get a lot more complex than that, too, but they all have one thing in common regardless of complexity: they “make” automatic “choices” for someone so that someone doesn’t have to do all that work by them self. Devices have something else in common, too: They are all merely “things”. There is nothing else in them . . . . just things. There is nothing in them (for example) capable of either liking or of disliking whatever the computed display is actually showing, no awareness or consciousness of what the displayed solution even is. That part is not in the machine. That part of the arrangement, the evaluator and final-chooser part, is YOU.

    More directly to the point, the term itself (“artificial intelligence”) is just a bold outright lie on its face because there is absolutely ZERO actual “intelligence” in “artificial intelligence”. This obvious and unavoidable fact ultimately makes it inescapably lethal too, unfortunately. Like a mountaineer who believes he has a good rope but which in reality is a very bad rope. The next time the mountain climber trusts his life to that rope, his life will be over. In a case like that, then, the habit of just accepting an AI’s answer without inspection . . . as in unconsciously accepting it “no questions asked” . . . it’s a bad idea and a bad thing, rolled into one.

    If we employ a rules-based system like that or similar, and the device determines that we should directly or indirectly kill something in order to preserve our own survival . . . in other words, in self defense . . . and carry out the action without even questioning whether that it was a good idea or bad idea, then in that instance we will have killed without remorse . . . there’s no remorse because the common and accepted wisdom (the civilization) said that it was a good idea. If one has ever killed ANYTHING (like the beef for that hamburger, or the carrot in a salad) then one has experienced precisely what it feels like to be a cold blooded, ruthless, and remorseless killer. It often doesn’t feel like much of anything because we were not fully engaged. We didn’t think that we had to be , because our Civilization agrees that’s it’s perfectly permissible to eat hamburgers and salads, and so no need for regret. Hi there, Dr. Lecter.

    Have you ever noticed that machines have the propensity and capacity for remorseless ruthlessness? A gun can’t care. Neither can an automated ICBM or an organic brain that knows that it’s time to eat.

    Lastly, and finally direct to the point , intelligence (by published lexical definition) is “the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.” Well, not to put too fine of a point on it, but material can’t do any of those things. Material can not “own”. Material cannot “initiate” . And material can not “know” in the subjective sense of being consciously aware of anything at all.

    Materialists (atheists, physical reductionists . . . whatever) call this consciousness thing “The Hard Problem” and have never explained it even a little bit. Ever. But they don’t call consciousness “The Hard Problem” just because it’s so hard to solve. Nah. They call conscious awareness The Hard Problem because the obvious and only sensible answer to The Hard Problem question happens to be very VERY hard on materialistic reductionist atheists. THEY are consciousness (as are we). Period. You don’t have it you are it. A personal slice of the big pie. Your slice can be made as big as you can mange to handle, and the amount you can bring yourself to handle will both determine and describes the size of the slice that you get to experience.

    End users of machinery can easily come to believe (or, more frequently, are led to believe) that there’s some actual intelligence in “Artificial Intelligence”, and consequently come to TRUST (out of fear, ignorance or laziness) that the answers that their automatic decision making system gives them are somehow “automatically” good and correct.

    That works fine when it works, but the risky practice should come with a really emphatic warning. WARNING: When the ‘solution proposals’ pertain to vitally important matters (especially Life & Death sorts of stuff), and are also not good, then the resultant mistake can be a fatal mistake. In other words, doing that “fully automatic rules based decision” thing leads inexorably to people being killed. (we like to think of them as “bad” people as much as possible.) Simple as that.

    That THING sitting on the bricks over there (or between your ears), that OBJECT which we so blithely refer to as Artificial Intelligence, is artificial alright, but it’s about as “intelligent” as the bricks it’s sitting on.

    If you have the idea that a DEVICE is capable of deciding between good and bad then you have a very very very bad idea. So bad, in fact, that you don’t even know that it’s a bad idea. That’s pretty bad. And you will continue to not know that it’s a bad idea for as long as you are depending on a DEVICE . . . of any kind whatsoever . . . to decide the question for you.

    Like most bad ideas the problem arises from not thinking the thought all the way through to its logical conclusion. There’s a tendency to stop thinking once the desired result is obtained. One gets whatever it was that was wanted, and the subsequent distant probable future consequences stemming from what was done to get it are just not thunk about too much. “Life’s not fair”, right? “It’s a Dog eat dog world”. “There’s winners and losers.” or “People need to look out for themselves.” And let’s not forgetting breaking eggs to make omelets and so many more stupid metaphors like it. . . and all of the metaphor excusing “reasons” that it was okay to whatever was done. Why “overthink it”, right ?

    But in this case, just as an exercise to humor the muse, let’s think this “AI Device” thing just a little further through.

    What happens when the AI Device (the entire civilization in this case), after following every rule in the rule book as closely as it could, “decides” that the next logical thing that needs to be done do is the killing of everybody like you? By that I mean, not only you, but you and also everybody else who is like you.

    In other words : a choice between genocide or violent revolution. Such a deal! So how would you rate an “AI” that represented that choosing one or the other of those mutually exclusive solutions was any kind of a goo overall solution? Would that particular enormous civilizational apparatus be a good enormous apparatus or a bad enormous apparatus? Is it good enough for the job, or not? Does it still require close, direct, consciously aware, adult supervision and good judgment to prevent catastrophic disasters. . . or is it safe to just let it keep flying along on autopilot?

    Let’s say for the sake of discussion that the decision under discussion was for the Rich Folk to control and/or eliminate the Poor Folk or, alternatively, the opposite approach where the poor ones rise up and give the rich ones what they deserve. Either option will do for the purposes of this example.

    Was the AI Device (civilization) proposal of making a definitive choice between the poles of a do or die dichotomy the sort of thing you would accept as the output of a “Good” artificial intelligence or a “Not Quite Ready For Prime Time” artificial intelligence? Or have you no interest in looking at the choices or personally deciding which one is good and which one is bad. Was the AI actually intelligent or was it like what I said about AI Devices earlier, “. . .that OBJECT that we blithely call an Artificial Intelligence, is artificial alright, but it’s no more intelligent than the bricks it’s sitting on. Left to its own it will become a remorselessly ruthless cold blooded killer in a heartbeat.

    I’m not selling one choice over the other as being better. That choice is obvious. What I’m saying is that we are stuck and shall remain stuck stuck until we take a stand . . . for reals . . . on which one that is..

    Answering that question is a train you ride alone, ain’t no one can ride it for you.

    Figmund Sreud

    John Helmer continues reporting:

    On June 13, for the first time since the Russian military operation began in the Ukraine, a detailed Russian intelligence assessment has been published in Moscow of Polish strategy for the future of Ukraine. This follows several weeks of brief statements by Russian security and intelligence officials claiming the government in Warsaw is aiming at an anschluss or union with the “eastern borderlands” known in Poland as Kresy Wschodnie, and in the Ukraine as Halychyna; that’s to say, Galicia. […]




    John Day

    D Benton Smith answered, in response to the question of what circle of hell Robert Reich might go to for likening Liz Cheney to Paul Wellstone:
    “The one where the only thing he can hear, is what he has said. Forever.”

    Man! That’s gotta; be right.

    TAE Summary

    Joe out on a Limb


    Will Poland take on the cost of rebuilding the rubble of Ukraine in exchange for annexing the wheat fields of Ukraine?
    Where will the money come from to buy the supplies, materials, pay for the manpower that will be needed?
    Will the USA people be happy to do without while more $Bilion more are printed for Ukraine?

    I think the forests will overgrow the fields, like in chernobyl
    35 Photos Of Chernobyl Today After Being Frozen In Time By A Nuclear Meltdown

    Michael Reid

    I don’t recall where I found this by it states things clearly.

    The Economic Meltdown Has Roots in Lockdown


    Yes good olde linseed oil! We used to put it on our cottage’s exterior cedar boards. However one big downside of such treatment is the fact that the sticky linseed oil traps dust becoming black over time. So we no longer use it.

    I can not get over the fact the Greenies don’t understand that fossil fuels are required to build and then maintain and keep green energy like solar and wind projects operational. Has no one ever noticed that only wealthy countries can afford to run both fossil fuel energy and green energy?

    Poor countries can barely afford to run fossil fuel energy never mind green energy! Only countries with excess fossil fuel energy can run green energy too!

    There has been a major shift in the war against Russia to the last Ukrainian. The Ukrainian War is losing out to more important things like the Jan 6 coverage. The Ukraine is now no longer getting front page coverage from the MSM. Ukrainians may still be dying but now nobody even notices!

    When I was in Siberia in 1983, gardening was a big deal. Everyone who could had a garden. Not only that they all started plants indoors by the southern exposure windows, then transferred them to cold frames usually with buckets of water in them to keep the young plants from freezing during early spring nights. All of this gardening effort totally absorbed all of their free time.

    Michael Reid

    So if the jab changes your DNA by design do they now technically own you like the food from GMO seeds? You can’t save those seeds for planting in the future because it’s their intellectual property unless you pay them royalties as I understand. Been saving my own seeds for years.

    No longer pure human may mean loss of “human” rights and property on the patent holders may be what they have in mind.

    Michael Reid

    We planted flax this year. We have no experience with it but it seems to have many uses other than linseed oil which is the reason I discovered flax in my research. I think the flax fibers can be used to make linen, the flax seed can be used in food, animal feed and linseed oil. I think it is also possible to make linoleum and more research to do

    Michael Reid

    But I’m not just talking about a stock market crash or a currency collapse…

    It’s something much bigger… with the potential to alter the fabric of society forever.

    President Andrew Jackson and an Outrageous Crime Inflicted on the Next Generation


    I see justin trudeau otherwise known as Mr Vaxxxed has caught covid for a second time.
    Imagine that!
    It couldn’t happen to a more deserving idiot!
    And he is still pushing vaccines!
    That confirms his idiot status.(


    Ukronazis post bizarro image of Queen Elizabeth with a shoulder launched anti tank missile.


    The PR geniuses of the murderous clown Zelensky sure know how to sweet talk a girl




    Don’t worry joe is working very hard on making the US government debt free again!
    That magic moment will happen when the USD is worthless!



    It is rather interesting how Mother Nature’s plants can still thrive in a nuclear waste zone while we humans can not.

    John Day

    @Michael Reid: That Brownstone article about all of the money “printed” before and during COVID now “coming home to roost” as stagflation, seems to be a manifestation of this article, recently posted by Clueless Honky, and which I reposted today. They needed the lockdown to cover-up the bailout with low velocity of money, until later, when it would appear to be something other than bailing out banks for the repo-crisis.

    A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: Systemic Collapse and Pandemic Simulation

    John Day

    The article about Andrew Jackson besting the Second National Bank and paying off the Federal Debt, says that $30 trillion in debt is a crime against coming generations, and it is, but massive default in a declining economy will happen, and the owner classes will have to take massive losses, or lose a working society and economy completely. (Yeah, that might happen for lots of other reasons.)
    Lincoln printed greenbacks, and that offense against the Bank of England & friends is likely the crime for which he was assassinated.

    John Day

    WES: Thanks for the Siberian gardening insights.
    I have been messing with the pre-spring freeze problem for years now. I always end up buying plant starts (especially tomatoes) in those little pots, but I have tried so much else.
    This year I planted tomato seeds and starts on Valentine’s Day, and they did great for almost a month until a hard freeze in mid March, but the little seedlings made it through that, close to the ground, still with cotyledons, tiny. I never have success growing seedlings in 4″ or smaller pots/starter-trays. They just don’t get taller than 1.5″, even if they cling to life for months. I have 4 trays like that now, from February. Stunted in infancy. Useless.
    The tomato seedlings in the ground are an inspiration to try “cloches” next year, a Parisienne market-garden approach. They cost $8 each if you search “cloches”. They look nice. I found “clear glass bowls” at Dollar Tree for $1.25 each and have been buying out the Dollar Trees that have some.

    I think this will let me plant February 1. With seeds sprouting on Valentine’s Day, and I’ll take the little glass greenhouses of them in mid March. There is no way that this can be a “failure”, though it will still be a bit behind planting potted starts in mid March.


    Dr Faletic, who earned his PhD in hypersonic technology from the ANU and now runs an international research consulting firm based in Canberra, says his faith in the scientific and medical community has been badly shaken by his experience.

    That ends the mystery as to why the west is so far behind Russia in said technology. Was his PhD a participation PhD?


    Holy cow! I just checked the 10 day for Yoakum, TX.
    I hope you put ceiling fans in your new place, John Day. How does the garden cope?


    @zerosum said

    Why do people lie
    Why do people not tell the truth

    Cowardice should be in that list: lying because it is the easy option, not accountable.


    Dr. John Day:

    I am surprised you are having problems growing tomatoe plants from seeds.

    My Mother used to start her tomato plants in those little compressed peat pots with netting where you add water and they expand to about an inch tall. As the little tomato plants started sprouting, she would daily rotate the plants 180 degrees to offset their tendency to tilt towards the sunlight. This seemed to help the stem toughen up too.

    Then as spring arrived, she would put the plants into a cold frame for the day, bring them indoors if necessary. This was to toughen the plants up. On warm sunny days, not too windy, she would remove a few of the cold frame top covers, to allow a little wind exposure, again to toughen up the plant stems.

    If there was no danger of it freezing at night, then she would leave the plants out in the cold frame with the top covers on plus buckets of water for insurance.

    I certainly think outdoor exposure was critical to the tomato plant’s success.

    Your idea of creating glass mini greenhouses as required mimics what my Mother was doing. My Father was a big help setting up the cold frame early every spring so it was ready as spring’s eradic weather permitted the transition from indoors to outdoors.

    My Father grew up gardening in Saskatchewan. There the growing season for tomatoes is too short. To grow tomatoes, they started the tomatoe plants indoors, then to a cold frame, and then to the garden once the fear of frost had past.

    However to get any tomatoes, they would only allow 1 or 2 tomatoes to grow on each plant by pruning the other flowers. I think they also pruned many of the leaves so as to force the tomato plant to put all of it’s energy into just the 1 or 2 tomatoes rather than growing bigger. They also securely tied each tomato plant and the branches with a tomato, to a stake.

    Then in the fall before frost hit, they would then pick all of the green tomatoes and put them on the window still to ripen. I believe they got some ripen red tomatoes before first frost.

    Clearly growing tomatoes is a labor of love.

    P.S. By cold frame, I am referring to a simple home made enclosed wooden frame covered in plastic about 18 inches tall, with removable top panels, that can be taken apart and stored till the next spring. In Russia some of their cold frame’s top removable panels were likely old glass window frames or purpose made glass panels. Cold frames are like green houses except you can not walk into them.

    Figmund Sreud

    @ zerosum – 35 Photos Of Chernobyl Today After Being Frozen In Time By A Nuclear Meltdown
    Just alike The Motor City, … almost – sans encapsulation by clouds of subatomic particles:

    42 Staggering Photos Of Abandoned Detroit Buildings


    D Benton Smith

    I rail against so-called artificial intelligence so virulently that its possible (even likely) that the underlying First Principal might get overlooked.

    That first principal is this: awareness does not derive from material or from energetic interactions taking place within material/energy based systems. That is transparently impossible. Nevertheless, material/energy based “decision making” systems could easily be examined managed or even assumed as an identity by awareness.

    In a sense, that is what human beings are: organic soft robots RUN by aware souls. Although the organic soft robot cannot by any means create an aware immaterial soul , an immaterial consciously aware soul can indeed assume itself to be anything that it wants to assume itself to be.

    In other words, material can not create sentience, but sentience can control material . . . and in fact does so all the time as a matter of routine.

    Google’s LaMDA , for example, could not have become sentient . . . but a sentience (a soul , if you will) could easily have taken some control over LaMDA. Fine with me if it did or does.

    What alarms me, the severe danger of so-called “AI”, is an an artificially SIMULATED “intelligence” , with no intrinsic conscious awareness . . . and thus no consciously aware capacity to know “good” from “bad” . . . . . being used and treated as though it did, and simply left to run amok, with our ignorant complicity.


    @ Raul
    Well, my son is now 16 and by age 9 he was incensed that his peers called him “a girl” for his silver boots, and he told me bout it, insisting that HE WAS A BOY. Occasionally, over the years there were conversations where if he felt otherwise he could have brought it up. Meanwhile, his sister came out as “queer” and has several gender non-conforming friends. We attended a church with LGBTQ+ folks, and I had a friend who was mom to friends of my kids transition to be a man and parent of their children. So…if he wanted to say something, he certainly could…but he has not.

    John Day

    @My parents said know: Yeah, it’s over 100F and 80% humidity every day and gets down to 78 at night.
    It has felt like mid summer since early May this year. Ceiling fans don’t help much when it is very humid, but AC takes the humidity out and helps a lot. Pushing the mower in direct sun and high humidity when it gets over 94F (by 10AM) is a physiologic limit. Gotta stop until evening.
    The addition has very good insulation, including between the upstairs and downstairs. There is a 30″ X 60″ cut-out for the steep stairs. The windows at the ends of the long narrow attic room let the south wind take out the hot air. The total effect is that with no AC for 3 days, only upstairs windows open, the downstairs is 85F at 6PM when it is 100F outside. I am supremely pleased at the passive A/C effect.

    : I have had gro-lights and trays and mild heating pad inside with start trays, and the start tray got run over in the driveway. Ihave had a cold frame, too, and it’s still partly intact, but granddaughter sat on it and popped out a plastic window. It is always something going wrong, and not always the same thing. The seeds really like the soil, though, so I am quite hopeful for this solution with the clear glass bowl mini-greenhouses.



    Detroit however, even in color, is very depressing.
    Just shades of grey. Even the green is grey.
    No wonder nobody is coming back.


    @ John Day
    I am getting tomatoes from my plants started 6-7 months ago. (Although, they are now stopping to set fruit due to triple digits, and I have to pick them half ripe now because the birds and ants are thirsty…)
    I started them by seed under grow lights in front of a south facing window in Nov/Dec in seed starter potting soil in egg cartons. I transplanted to 4” pots. I left them under light for about 2 days, so I could be sure they were doing well after transplant. Then I moved them outside in trays — that way, I could bring them in if the overnight temps dropped below 45 degrees — and take them back in the morning. I had lots of multiples due to using lots of old seeds – at about 2” high I separated them into their own pots. Last frost is usually by Feb 15 in Phoenix, but I planted a few out before then — there may be no late frost, and they’ll get a head start. I like putting them in the ground when they are at least 4” high. I grew too many this year and gave about 20 away to my mother and sister.

    It is very important here to get the tomatoes well-established before the triple digit heat. Now…I just try to keep them alive until September…it will get easier once the monsoon season starts.


    John Day, Tomatoes. The Amish home gardeners here in PA in the fall cut 1/2′ slices of their heirlooms and cover the slices with garden soil in trays stored in their home basements until they sprout. The trays are moved to cold frames with water sinks to store heat. Said frames are covered with an extra set of glass sash in the evenings and if very cold they cover the sash with burlap etcetera. At the 4 leaf stage seedlings transplanting takes place into a 20″ by 20″ open plastic flat. The Amish are not shy about using plastics for ag. 50 seedlings per flat.The trays go back to the cold frames and are covered and uncovered as needed. The transplants receive a gentle swipe with a broom 1-3 times daily to ‘toughen’ them up but air movement will do the same.
    Most Amish growers I know are proponents of foliar feeding using ‘compost’ tea and fish/kelp blends and molasses from time to time. Regards, Paul


    Dr. John Day:

    I would think if you have planted some cherry tomatoes you would probably be eating some in your salads by now. The earliest my Mother had cherry tomatoes here in southern Ontario was early to mid July. My Father especially liked the cherry tomatoes to eat with his sandwiches at work.

    The big tomatoes started coming late July or early August. Then it was BLT time!



    Puzzled. When you say they “cut 1/2 slices of heirlooms” does that mean they take tomato plant stem sections and cut them length wise before covering them in soil?

    Veracious Poet

    So if the jab changes your DNA by design do they now technically own you like the food from GMO seeds? You can’t save those seeds for planting in the future because it’s their intellectual property unless you pay them royalties as I understand. Been saving my own seeds for years.

    No longer pure human may mean loss of “human” rights and property on the patent holders may be what they have in mind.

    With the current judiciary that would be a legal fiction too far…

    A bridge too far for even for the current ilk of black robed, proglodyte effected libtards that live to legislate from the bench ☠️☠️☠️

    I’d imagine we’re still a couple of generations away from mass psychosis before that’s a real reality

    Probably about the time drag queen/lesbo certification will be required for a teaching license!

    Western CULTure is on their way, unfortunately….


    Wes. They cut the fruit itself in slices to produce next year’s transplants.

Viewing 33 posts - 41 through 73 (of 73 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.