October 1, 2014 at 9:40 pm #15477Raúl Ilargi MeijerKeymaster
David Myers Theatre on 9th Street, Washington, DC July 1939 For me, the quote of the day is this one: “If there’s a periphery of the eurozone’s periph
[See the full post at: Debt Rattle Oct 1 2014: Europe Is Crumbling Into Collapse]October 1, 2014 at 11:41 pm #15478
Re Ebola story: “The CDC has a team of epidemiologists on the way to Texas, he said. The team will follow anyone who has had contact with the man for 21 days. If they develop any symptoms, they’ll immediately be isolated, and public health officials will trace their contacts.”
So you allow people to travel freely from infected areas, without first having been quarantined for 21 days, and then when they get sick abroad, and some inevitably will, you send teams of epidemiologists flying around to track them. And who’s got the degree? Again, this is completely ridiculous and ass-backwards.
If you really want to spread the disease, keep it up! It’s working. If they want to stop it, there should be strict quarantine in the infected areas and nobody gets out. We don’t know if this guy had been surrounded by sick people before he decided to board the flight to a country where he could get the best medical care. Who says it can’t be transmitted before symptoms show up? If someone sneezes two hours before onset of fever, does that mean you’re safe? Come on, I don’t think these guys know what they’re doing.
Have we learned nothing from history? Quarantine used to work.October 2, 2014 at 12:06 am #15479rapierParticipant
Greece, Spain and Italy are essentially stable politically. There is no possible way to effect change within the system because nobody within the system has the slightest clue on what change is needed. Oddly they are right but for the wrong reasons. They see no alternative to economic orthodoxy but the alternatives to that amount to one thing, deflation on a massive scale. If we the deep critics of the system were given the reins of power we could not bring back growth. And the alternative to growth is deflation, writ large. Not just prices, incomes, asset values, tax receipts and government spending. All those yes, and then everything else for most everyone.
I try to have a bit of sympathy once and awhile for the Dragi’s and Obama’s of the world because the sit on the horns of an unsolvable dilemma.October 2, 2014 at 12:07 am #15480
Re Carmen Segarra: Michael Lewis said Fed officials eventually go to work at Wall Street firms, so they don’t want to alienate their future employers. Those would be the employees who are easily corruptible. I’m betting there’s a lot of Carmen Segarra’s out there who would do otherwise for $150,000.00/year, who would go after Wall Street if they were backed up by the New York Fed, if they weren’t fired for ruffling feathers.
Then Michael Lewis says: “To that, add the problem that the typical Fed regulator is in the awkward position of having to be educated about whatever the Wall Street firm has dreamed up.” Therein lies one of the main problems with the financial world. Just like the epidemiologists chasing Ebola contacts, Fed regulators are chasing Wall Street. You’re always going to be behind the curve when you’re doing that.
This makes Ilargi’s point: Wall Street and the politicians they pay off (who are easily corrupted) are running the show, not the people. We don’t even figure in their calculations, except where we can benefit them.
Wall Street shouldn’t be allowed to just “dream” up so-called “financial innovations”, as they like to call them, and we shouldn’t be running around after them. There should be strict rules about what they’re allowed to do. If derivatives (which are up in the trillions now) are detrimental, then they shouldn’t be allowed, period. These guys should be told what is allowed and what isn’t, not them dreaming up things and us chasing them.
I mean, I can just “dream” up schemes, but I’m sure I’d be jailed. Why is this any different? These guys are parasites and they’ve spread all over the world. They need to be stopped.October 2, 2014 at 12:45 am #15481
Apparently the ambulance that finally brought the Ebola victim to a Dallas hospital was used for TWO MORE DAYS before they got the test results back from the lab that said he had Ebola. Two more days of transporting people who were already sick. Oh man, the first thing I would have done (provided the man told them he had just come from Liberia, which he may not have, but wouldn’t you think they’d have asked), would have been to isolate him and test him for Ebola. This is how things get out of hand.October 2, 2014 at 12:50 am #15482
Last thing today, then I’ll shut up. I posted this on the last thread, but wanted to make sure Trivium saw it and could perhaps provide an answer:
Diogenes – “All Wars Are Bankers’ Wars” is a great video. I’ve posted it numerous times around the Internet. If you can’t watch it all in one go, watch a quarter or half now, then the rest later. It really explains a lot about how our world works.
Trivium – in the video “Inequality: Why Are the Rich Getting Richer,” at 1:10 minutes it says: “The shocking fact is, if nobody went into debt, there would be almost no money in the economy.” Why is that so bad? That would just mean house prices (essentially all assets) would come way, way, way down in price, a dollar would actually be worth something again. “But, but, but,” you might argue, “I paid a whole lot more for my car or house and now they’ve come way down in price, but I’ve still got to pay on them.” Well, as it turns out, you were only “renting” your house from the banks, anyway. Renting!
It’s all relative. When there are fewer dollars in existence, they are worth more (they buy more), and prices have to come down to reflect this. As we’ve seen, when people paid way too much for their houses (and their houses dropped in price), they simply walked away and bought another house that was much cheaper (and, to boot, they got the cheapest mortgage rates in history), or they rented. Of course, I didn’t see people complaining too much when the worth of their houses was doubling, but that’s another story. And you get a tax credit for the interest you pay on your mortgages.
Banking needs to go back to what it used to be: bank managers in crumpled suits, earning a decent living, and lending only to the most qualified borrowers who have a really good down payment that they’ve saved up. No securitization; in other words, getting rid of the ability of banks to unload inferior mortgages onto some sucker investor (passing the hot potato) who thinks he’s getting premium AAA beef. Make them keep the loans they hand out on THEIR books. That way they won’t be lending to people who can barely fog a mirror.
As far as I can see, Positive Money (and I may be wrong) appears to want the game to continue, but wants “more” money spent into the economy. Are we not already floating in the stuff? I mean, the government is guaranteeing inferior loans, supplying Section 8 housing, welfare, food stamps, free cell phones; banks are choosing not to foreclose on millions of mortgages because they don’t want to book the loss. All that creates free “positive money” floating around and being spent at Walmart and the 7-11. There’s no shortage of money floating around. QE has kept asset prices from crumbling (more positive money). We are awash in the stuff.
People want something for nothing (mainly the financial industry). They want their house debt inflated away, and they don’t mind if savers’ money is worth less because of it. Savers would have less money if not for all of the previous inflation, you say? Yes, they would have less, but what they’d have would be worth more, would buy more (because prices would be down). It’s all relative.
Adding more and more money to the situation just creates more and more inflation, which pushes prices up, which just maintains the status quo. Put a wall between investment banking and commercial banking (as was done before). If the investment bankers (and their investors) want to blow their brains out, go at it.October 2, 2014 at 1:41 am #15485John DayParticipant
Yes, I think this Ebola epidemic, doubling numbers of cases and deaths every 3 weeks, is a really big deal, and it is a crisis, which I don’t expect to be “wasted”.
We are well past the point of real economy, where exponential growth of debt-based money can be supported by anything other than smoke, mirrors and bubbles.
The financial elites know this.
The reset will involve a really big crisis, and wars are riskier when they get THAT big. Also, there is no resource cornucopia to claim after the war.
Ebola, as a wave of pestilence akin to the “Black Death”, can come from everybody’s blind spot, but still hold a fear, which lies deep in our genes.
Who could foresee the bank burning down with all those people in it?
Just be glad you made it out alive.
Nobody changes power-structure in a plague, or a fire.
The power structure remains intact through the transition.
Fire is risky, nonetheless.
Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” considers it the most powerful and unreliable form of attack.
Maybe I’m playing fast and loose with my analogies, but all year there have been hints of WW-3 from this, or great threats from that, or beheadings on TV.
I think pestilence just took a big lead in the race to be THE crisis for the biggest economic reset ever.
It’s growing exponentially, so you can tell if I’m right or wrong pretty soon on the time axis.
I’d guess before Christmas, but certainly before April Fool’s Day.
Here is something really good about Ebola in this “age of overshoot”, by Mary Odum, an RN and ecologist and seriously analytical human being.October 2, 2014 at 4:05 am #15487jalParticipant
Ebola patient goes to the bathroom. Straigtens his clothes., then washes his/her hands.
Are the Ebola virus on his clothes?
How long will the Ebola virus survive when it isn’t inside a body?
6) You can get Ebola through contact with an infected surface. Though Ebola is easily killed with disinfectants like bleach, if it isn’t caught, it can live outside the body on, say, a doorknob or counter top, for several hours. In body fluids, like blood, the virus can survive for several days. So you’d need to touch an infected surface, and then put your hands in your mouth and eyes.October 2, 2014 at 10:02 am #15489
Absolutely the last comment. The Dallas Ebola victim apparently had carried an infected female to hospital in Liberia on the 15th; she died on the 16th. The female’s brother and three neighbours, who had had contact with her, died soon after. The Dallas fellow then secured a Visa and boarded a plane on the 19th.
In the course of his stay in Dallas, and while he had symptoms, he also came in contact with five children, as well as some adults.
This fellow clearly had been exposed to the Ebola virus, yet he was able to board a plane.October 2, 2014 at 11:14 am #15490
Our hubris makes us dangerous. This patient was also checked at another hospital and sent home. This after telling them he had just come from Liberia.
I’ve read that Ebola is not a danger to the U.S. because of our advanced medicine and abilities; forgotten in all this is it’s run by humans…October 2, 2014 at 2:28 pm #15491Raúl Ilargi MeijerKeymaster
The US is now checking on 80 people in the Dallas area alone whom the carrier has been in touch with. And that’s just the people they know of. The number could be 180, depending on what he’s done, did he go shopping, shake hands etc. It doesn’t include anyone who was at the Brussels airport where he had a stopover, and it doesn’t include many others either. The assumption is that one can only get contagious when symptoms appear, but no matter how fast the disease sets in, it can still take a day before the symptoms are recognized for what they are. So when you look at how lightly he was dismissed at one of more hospitals, while he was already exhibiting the symptoms (!), the grey area becomes a mile and a half wide. If I were a betting man, I’d venture there’s still a lot of complacency in the west.October 2, 2014 at 10:04 pm #15493rapierParticipant
The NY Fed and the banking giants are partners for one very good reason. To sell Treasury debt. Without the well oiled mechanisms for distributing what until recently and for 6 years was a minimum of $100 billion a month of Treasury paper it simply could not have been done in an orderly manner. The way to look at their non existent regulation is that in return for working hand in hand with the Treasury and the Fed the giants are allowed to do what they want.
Even with the episodes of QE, for which the banks are agents, Primary Dealers of the Fed., the Fed cannot buy the newly issued paper directly so it still needs be auctioned. Since only 7 of the Feds 20 or so Primary Dealers are US banks the global giants are the partner with every government that borrows, which is all of them.
I will repeat that what the giants are is part of a mechanism, a system, to market government debt. They are partners with governments. The nature of that partnership is based upon their freedom to do what they may or if caught to not suffer criminal liability as institutions nor the individuals involved.October 3, 2014 at 3:00 am #15494TheTrivium4TWParticipant
>>Trivium – in the video “Inequality: Why Are the Rich Getting Richer,” at 1:10 minutes it says: “The shocking fact is, if nobody went into debt, there would be almost no money in the economy.” Why is that so bad? That would just mean house prices (essentially all assets) would come way, way, way down in price, a dollar would actually be worth something again. “But, but, but,” you might argue, “I paid a whole lot more for my car or house and now they’ve come way down in price, but I’ve still got to pay on them.” Well, as it turns out, you were only “renting” your house from the banks, anyway. Renting!<<
Hi Raleigh, given the prima facie fraud that is debt money and the debt bubble that was inflated around it, you are right about most people effectively renting what they think they own. The point is that people weren’t fully informed. They should have a reasonable chance to pay off their home in a sane world.
As it stands now, when the Debt Money Monopolists pull the plug on credit, which could be done slowly or quickly at any given moment, the debtors will be bankrupted and the Banksters will seize their assets. The net effect is that the Debt Money Monopolists will essentially control the essence of society even more so than they do now… and by a lot. That isn’t good.
>>It’s all relative. When there are fewer dollars in existence, they are worth more (they buy more), and prices have to come down to reflect this.<<
The fraudulent transfer of physical assets from the citizenry to the criminal Debt Money Monopoly cartel will be absolute, not relative. That’s the problem. Once they cut off any semblance of ownership of real assets from the vast majority of the soon to be impoverished middle class, you can also kiss good bye your formerly unalienable rights as well. Neofeudalism will rule the day.
>>As we’ve seen, when people paid way too much for their houses (and their houses dropped in price), they simply walked away and bought another house that was much cheaper (and, to boot, they got the cheapest mortgage rates in history), or they rented. Of course, I didn’t see people complaining too much when the worth of their houses was doubling, but that’s another story. And you get a tax credit for the interest you pay on your mortgages.<<
That was then. This is now. And the future will get progressively more Draconian. As of now, a person who walks away from a home with a $100k deficit will have $100k in debt forgiveness added to their income by the loving and liberal IRS. States like CA will add the debt forgiveness as income as well. Watch the tax code… this chit is important. Now, how many people can pony up $20-$50k in a single year to pay out the IRS?
As for the future, expect the banks to start suing people for the losses and, possibly, debtors prison or forced military service. When the going gets worse, the fascists get uglier.
>>Banking needs to go back to what it used to be: bank managers in crumpled suits, earning a decent living, and lending only to the most qualified borrowers who have a really good down payment that they’ve saved up. No securitization; in other words, getting rid of the ability of banks to unload inferior mortgages onto some sucker investor (passing the hot potato) who thinks he’s getting premium AAA beef. Make them keep the loans they hand out on THEIR books. That way they won’t be lending to people who can barely fog a mirror.<<
And the sheep want the wolves to stop eating sheep.
>>As far as I can see, Positive Money (and I may be wrong) appears to want the game to continue, but wants “more” money spent into the economy. Are we not already floating in the stuff?<<
I agree with your assessment. The vast majority of the debt free money crowd think that the answer is to issue lots of debt free money to fix the problem. Ellen Brown is an example of that type of attitude.
>>I mean, the government is guaranteeing inferior loans, supplying Section 8 housing, welfare, food stamps, free cell phones; banks are choosing not to foreclose on millions of mortgages because they don’t want to book the loss. All that creates free “positive money” floating around and being spent at Walmart and the 7-11. There’s no shortage of money floating around. QE has kept asset prices from crumbling (more positive money). We are awash in the stuff.<<
The existence of all that money is temporary. It is all owed back with interest on top. Much of the world rents its money from a private Debt Money Monopoly supranational banking cartel. This set up is inconsistent with democracy, let alone a Democratic Republic. The Debt Money Monopoly are the “more equal animals,” if you know what Orwell meant.
>>People want something for nothing (mainly the financial industry).<<
The Debt Money Monopoly is raking is probably 5-10% of maybe 70% of the world’s money supply annually. They don’t want something for free, THEY GET MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONETARY WEALTH FOR FREE! And not just for free, they get licenses to lie, steal, and murder with their “money power.”
>>They want their house debt inflated away,<<
Their naivette would be cute if this is wasn’t so serious.
>>and they don’t mind if savers’ money is worth less because of it. Savers would have less money if not for all of the previous inflation, you say? Yes, they would have less, but what they’d have would be worth more, would buy more (because prices would be down). It’s all relative.<<
I don’t think you are considering the effects of the 100+ year fraud that is already baked into the cake. If the system wasn’t rigged then your logic works out. But the system is rigged and the deflationary collapse is all part of their Sun Tzu Art of War operation to take the world’s middles classes and turn them into serfs dependent on their authoritarian feudal lords.
And this is NOT my opinion. It is the direct writing of the Debt Money Monopoly’s chief historian after he spent years in the library vaults of the Council on Foreign Relations!
“The Money Power Seeks to Create a World System of Financial
Control in Private Hands Able to Dominate Every Nation on Earth
In addition to these pragmatic goals, the powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank, in the hands of men like Montagu Norman of the Bank of England, Benjamin Strong of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, Charles Rist of the Bank of France, and Hjalmar Schacht of the Reichsbank, sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.”
~Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope, CFR historian and Bill Clinton mentor (hander?)
Read the whole chapter – it has amazing revelations from the the oligarch point of view.
For example, Quigley touches upon:
1. The denied “international order”
2. The Bank of England printing debt free money to bail itself out while refusing to do the same for the English people
3. The heads of the World’s central banks have no power – they are puppets of the Debt Money Power and will be cast down if they ever go against their Debt Money Masters.
4. How Montagu Normal, head of the Bank of England, absolutely despised Democracy and viewed it as direct threat to the Money Power he served.
And a whole lot more including…
“This power of the Bank of England and of its governor was admitted by most qualified observers. In January, 1924, Reginald McKenna, who had been chancellor of the Exchequer in 1915-1916, as chairman of the board of the Midland Bank told its stockholders: “I am afraid the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can, and do, create money…. And they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of Governments and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people.” In that same year, Sir Drummond Fraser, vice-president of the Institute of Bankers, stated, “The Governor of the Bank of England must be the autocrat who dictates the terms upon which alone the Government can obtain borrowed money.” On September 26, 1921, The Financial Times wrote, “Half a dozen men at the top of the Big Five Banks could upset the whole fabric of government finance by refraining from renewing Treasury Bills.” Vincent Vickers, who had been a director of the bank for nine years, said, “Since 1919 the monetary policy of the Government has been the policy of the Bank of England and the policy of the Bank of England has been the policy of Mr. Montagu Norman.” On November Il, 1927, the Wall Street Journal called Mr. Norman “the currency dictator of Europe.” This fact was admitted by Mr. Norman himself before the court of the bank on March 21, 1930, and before the Macmillan Committee five days later.”
~Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope
Remember, this is the oligarchs’ inside historian telling you this…
Chapter 19 can be found here:
If you read the whole thing, you will find out why property tax was really created… to force self-sufficient people in India into the debt money system and economy and eliminate the self-sufficient.
It was a brilliant plan… but evil as h*ll.October 3, 2014 at 3:10 am #15495TheTrivium4TWParticipant
>>Unless there would be a massive wealth transfer from rich to poor, from north to south, but that’s never been in the cards. The intention was always to make the EU a tide to lift all boats, or even, in the wildest dreams, a boat to lift all tides. That intention has failed in dramatic fashion. But not one single one of the architects and present day leaders is ready to fess up to their failures. <<
Hi Ilargi, I think your assertion that the Debt Money Monopoly financed political and financial hacks propaganda should be taken at face value is off the mark. Way off the mark.
I don’t think these people have failed at their real objective at all. Rather, I think you’ve failed at discerning their real objectives… sometimes. It is odd because sometimes you write as though you comprehend the inherent systemic fraud engineered into the system. Then you write as though a declaration of these serial liars ought to be taken at face value.
JP Morgan was NOT kidding when he said, “A man always has two reasons for doing anything: a good reason and the real reason.”
The idea that these people did this to “lift all tides” is the good reason.
It is NOT the real reason.
Debt based money is anthema to “lifting boats.” In fact, the only thing it does, and it does it systematically, is to sink all boats not attached to the Debt Money Monopoly yacht, as it were.
I posted this video in the last post or two, but apparently the ramifications of its message didn’t sink in…
Inequality: Why the boats are systematically being pushed underwater instead of lifted…
Poverty Debt is Not a Choice
The people bankrupting the world through fraud are doing it on purpose. Their front men are modern day Machiavellian sophists who lie to gullible people that make up the chumpocracy.
I’ve concluded that the most dangerous part of this arrangement is the attitude that generates the chumptocracy. We have to raise our political IQ some amount above our shoe size or will cook our goose so that the Banksters can seize it to eat it.
“The system IS NOT broken, it is FIXED.”
~Ben and Jerry’s stampOctober 3, 2014 at 7:21 am #15497
Trivium – thank you for your response. I think we’re pretty much on the same page as far as seeing the elite, who while semi-trying to hide what they’re doing, are often now stealing right out in the open, and no one seems to be trying to stop them. Of course, they’ve been thieving all along, but we just didn’t know it. Now they’re right out there, “Look at me, I’m stealing and you can’t stop me.” It’s an in-your-face coup. I’ll think more about what you’ve had to say. Thanks.
On the Ebola situation: “In the latest indication, state and local authorities confirmed Thursday that a week after a Liberian man fell ill with Ebola in Dallas, and four days after he was placed in isolation at a hospital here, the apartment where he was staying with four other people had not been sanitized and the sheets and dirty towels he used while sick remained in the home. County officials visited the apartment without protection Wednesday night.”
Just look at the picture of these two complete fools (supposedly “health officials”) leaving the apartment they visited “without protection”. Yes, we are in good hands, aren’t we?October 3, 2014 at 12:44 pm #15510
“The US is now checking on 80 people in the Dallas area alone whom the carrier has been in touch with. And that’s just the people they know of. The number could be 180, depending on what he’s done, did he go shopping, shake hands etc.”
Exponential spread is the by word. Exponential is an interesting word and it’s meaning is potentially catastrophic for the U.S. Particularly because of it’s complacency regarding medicine and medical acumen. Exponential is one’s worst enemy when it comes to infectious disease. Europe’s black plague and the influenza of 1918 are perfect examples.
I do not trust the MSM who have already failed in this, oh so short, period of time
The human factor is already operational with lying, misinformation and hubris.
The impossible may well be about to be possible; things move fast these days, no?
Public beware and self educate; panic is not warranted; just conscious action.October 3, 2014 at 2:26 pm #15519
@ October 3, 2014 at 3:00 am
That was a deep dive, one that exceeded my oxygen capacity. Mighten it be better to do a few shallow dives as an alternative?
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