DiEM25: Europe Without Nations or Religion
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Fred Lyon Barbary Coast 1950 A friend sent me a post from the DiEM25 website last week, entitled Critique of DiEM25 policy on immigrants and re
[See the full post at: DiEM25: Europe Without Nations or Religion]Has anyone read John Ralston Saul’s Voltaire’s Bastards? If I could take a huge liberty and summarize the books message in a few sentences it would be this. Out of the Enlightenment came two main forces, the growing dominance of the ego and the use by the ego of reason and logic to relate to the world. The world seen from the ego’s point of view (which is actually a projection of itself on the world) is soulless, a machine, for our use, our utility. This mode of seeing eventually leads to the development of science, technology (the machine with a capital M) and capitalism. To promote and control this machine culture requires managers, technocrats, trained in the story of control. In many respects these managers are assigned to turn the world (nature and human culture) in to a machine-efficient, unfeeling and eternal.
In many respects Yanis is this kind of technocrat-his removal of religion and other impediments to his efficient, glistening new world, free of the old symbols that cause strife is simply replacing one set of symbols with another, this time of the machine with the story of onward “human progress” used as the thin edge of the wedge to make it plausible and acceptable.When I read the material from the site it sends shivers down my spine.
but you just wait till Spanish tanks appear on Barcelona’s Ramblas
But the whole idea of a European Union is to prevent such a thing; even more to prevent German tanks from appearing on the Champs Elysees. So far so good.
And all of your arguments against a pan-European state were used by the South prior to the US civil war. Do you think that any US State should be allowed to secede at will? Or perhaps even a county from a State? Or any individual from a county?
In the end, individual sovereignty can only be assured by a global state. Until one appears, it’s nation against nation, with the powerful nations running roughshod over the less powerful, which seems fine if one is a citizen of a powerful nation, but what about those left in the less powerful. Are they not equally human?
A strong case can be made for the elimination of all national states and the borders they defend. Let everyone in the world go wherever they will, treat them all equally and with respect, and see how that works out. I think it would be far easier than you make it sound. A first stepping stone would be a United States of Europe, progressing to a United States of Gaia and then to a Democratic Republic of our Earth. Just think of the resources saved by not having any national defense budgets anywhere.
I’ve been following this site for over six years now and I actually went on a week-long binge sometime in 2013 where I read every article from TAE from 2007. But it’s really demoralising as a Muslim to see this kind of rhetoric where it’s just assumed that if I practice my religion, I’m somehow automatically suspected as going against European laws.
This kind of suspicion seems to have truly become mainstream nowadays. God knows what its going be like in a decades time.
Dross is a poster on DiEM25 without a lot of posts, I don’t believe he runs DiEM. But I think what’s striking is how he has internalized and encapsulates the “reasonableness” of the EU position, that is, to control everything, every human action, everywhere, at every time, for everyone’s own good, right down to when they may, and mayn’t have sex, in the style of Dolores Umbridge. Because he, and people like him, aren’t mere humans making decisions like we migrants and voters are, they are the Ubermensch, who are smarter and better and stronger, and we should worship and obey them as the gods, Plato’s philosopher kings.
That position is anti-human and tyrannical in the nth degree. It is in fact, insane. The mindset is the root of all evil, communist, fascist (but I repeat myself), royalist, or statist. My country was founded on the principle that “All men are created equal”, and dummies like this guy, who believe they alone decide “[in] Europe consumption is limited and breeding is not encouraged” and “breed[ing] more with better safety, is undesirable.” are entitled to nothing. They are no better men than anyone else and while free to promote their ideas, have no license whatsoever to tell anyone what to do unless the people wish to cooperate voluntarily. And that is exactly why the government, who would happily enforce this gentleman’s eugenics, and is happily doing so worldwide as we speak, must be as limited as possible, being the best possible advertisement FOR nationalism, democracy, and arms, and AGAINST a Federal EU, or World government.
This guy is the poster child of why men are forced to take up arms, and therefore why they are entitled to do so.
Dross22 posted a reply to TAE here:
Link is posting strangely. Try this:
https://www.diem25.org/forum/search.php?author_id=40903&sr=posts
Diablo, that first link is an article of mine from Dec 2016. How did you get that instead of that Dross thing? I started reading his reply, but it looks like a whole lot of big words, few of which really address what I said, and I’m writing. Maybe later. A friend wants to set up a meeting of an English language group here in Athens to discuss the whole thing. But I am not really that interested in DiEM25. We’ll see.
The reply, I kid you not, in the vein of Johnathan Swift:
“My response to Meijer is this: At DiEM we have moderate…proposals…” Indeed. I do not wish to see his extreme proposals.
Follows an enormous fascination with government that will give him the power to force people to behave as he wishes, because he sees himself as smarter and better than us. “people know something is rotten but most do not understand sufficient analytical capacity and discernment to understand what is rotten.” (sic. yes, he dumbed the sentence on the dumbs.) Poor us. If we only had a brains.
” post-EU Europe will be a place where life for the majority tends to be nasty, brutish and short…” overlooking entirely that except for the blessed few like himself, life IN the EU is presently nasty, brutish, and short, arguably worse than 2001 when the Euro started. 50% youth unemployment in many countries? Eastern Europe treated like an African colony? Check yourself.
“By eradicating local nationalism we don’t mean that all national consciousness should be eradicated. …Somebody can be proud to be Texan and speak in the Texan manner but no Texan will tell you that being Texan is superior to being an American.” Strangely wrong, as Texans will tell you they ARE superior, and it’s one of those pivotal things Europeans regularly misjudge about why America’s Federalism works. Still, it’s a simple fact one probably ought to know before you rest your pan-national foundation on it as they have.
Continuing his racism and flights of awesomeness, “Let’s face it. The vast periphery in the south and east of Europe is underdeveloped and needs to be civilized.” I’m certainly glad to hear Prague and Vienna and Rome will be civilized one day. Perhaps Belgium with 1.76 murders can show Austria how to “civilize” their murder rate of 0.71. Perhaps his tone is one reason Eastern Europe feels increasingly reluctant to join the “family” of “all equals”, except of course, all the east, most of the south, and a bunch of others who are savages to be shown the one true (German) path, or else.
Think I’m kidding? “We should accept that Berlin is the only capital…” Really? I remember a former Chancellor who proposed the same thing. Do you remember his name?
Do I overstate my case? “Islam is all about wasteful production too. Wasteful production of human beings in particular.” Perhaps not. So does he also cover the other party planks, for instance religion? Why yes: “…clergymen are lazy people with no use in society…Pluralistic societies are de facto polytheistic.” So there is no religion if it’s Christian, that’s superstitious and silly…except for his one true religion of many (German) gods of course, which is self-evident and good. Let me try not to waste any more valuable time on this gentleman, who is the one true and self-evident lunatic, and a danger to life in Europe and perhaps on earth.
Variety is the spice of life.
It is better to have multiple nations, each without absolute power, trying to cheat each other than it is to have a one-new world order that is a con job to facilitate absolute tyranny by a tribe whose leaders are psychopaths.This is a great site! Unfortunately there was an oversight in this article I’m replying to: the quoted views, which are indeed nauseating, were not posted on diem25.org but on its forum. The forum is open to anyone and lately has suffered an invasion of a lot of non-member provocateurs. Dross22 is one of them. Therefore, I hope that you will adjust your article to reflect that the comments were left by a provocateur and do not represent DiEM25 or even a stance that any DiEM25 member could have (members are excluded if they don’t subscribe to the values of DiEM25’s manifesto). As you wouldn’t want The Automatic Earth to be judged based on what a commentator leaves behind, so I’m sure you’ll critique DiEM25 and Yanis Varoufakis based on the movement’s stated positions, i.e. the manifesto, the greenpapers and articles published at http://www.diem25.org . Once again, thank you for showing interest in our movement.
Best wishes,
Judith Meyer
Volunteer Coordinator for DiEM25Judith,
Not the Automatic Earth is judged based on what a commentator leaves behind. DiEM25 is.
And besides, how do I know you’re not just dross22 in drag?
What’s happening is you’re asking me to solve YOUR problem, and that is not right. YOU allow people to pose as somehow representing your movement. And then blame it on me. That makes very little sense.
If you have to explain to me, who has run this, as you rightly remark, great site for 10+ years, that DiEM25’s forum is somehow separate from DiEM25, then what are other people going to understand?
Sorry, but I really don’t get your point.
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