November 2, 2015 at 10:08 am #24688Raúl Ilargi MeijerKeymaster
RLOppenheimer New flag for EU 2015 To reiterate: People are genetically biased against change, because change means potential danger. People are also
[See the full post at: Europe Will Never Be The Same. Neither Will The World.]November 2, 2015 at 11:18 am #24689WolfbayParticipant
Is it also possible that generally humans are “hard wired” to be tribal and Xenophobic? It’s discouraging to me seeing that the Catalonians and Basques who have lived in Spain since the country existed have still not assimilated and most would probably want their own countries if Spain allowed it. Most also profess to have the same religion. Their are examples all over the world and if humans can’t come up with Ethnic or religious differences they invent “gangs”.November 2, 2015 at 12:28 pm #24695Dr. DiabloParticipant
Disagree. You’re headed somewhere you may not intend, the complete dissolution of the nation state and thereby creating a world government run by the very people you find so evil, so feckless, so criminal, so vile as to ruthlessly and intentionally kill many thousands of these same refugees in a cold-blooded political calculation.
Think ahead a few moves. A nation without borders is no longer a nation. And then what is it? A soup of people with entirely chaotic interests, All vs All? Law of the jungle? Who does that help? Will that not cause a thousand time more deaths than the ones we have now? And if there are to be borders, you very obviously cannot allow everyone inside them without question. And if you cannot allow everyone in, you must have violent force arrayed on those borders, with rules in place to peacefully allow in who you wish. Avoid any of these things and your nation state ceases to exist, now superseded by unaccountable corporations and world governments unrestrained by anyone. Think wisely.
There are many other solutions no one will address. Nobody wants to leave their home. One solution could also be not paying billions to bomb and destroy the refugee’s homeland. But that central point is always is put aside in favor of expediency. Because of these facts, we can deduce that this is a cold, calculating, premeditated war of European and western politicians *on their own people.* They proudly cause this distress, these deaths *because they want to* and the more deaths, the more disorder, the more social tension they can create, the better. We know this, not only because of their action, but *because they’ve said so*, in official white papers going back decades. Like Mein Kampf, no one batted an eye when they advertised their plan. They told you they wanted to, they would, and why. Yet when the barbed wire comes out, everyone is suddenly confused?
4GW: “Fourth-generation warfare involves an *insurgent group* or other violent state actor trying to *implement their own government* or reestablish an old government over the current ruling power. However, a non-state entity tends to be more successful when it does not attempt, at least in the short term, to impose its own rule, but tries simply to *disorganize and delegitimize the state* in which the warfare takes place. The aim is to force the adversary state to *expend manpower and money* in an attempt to establish order, ideally in such a highhanded way that it *merely increases disorder*, until the state surrenders or withdraws.”
Your strategic prescription gives the mass-murderers exactly what they want. Just as they planned, and as they prey on your goodwill. Don’t help them. Taking their route will turn thousands dead into millions. Think beyond them to a solution for all.November 2, 2015 at 1:57 pm #24697Ceteris ParibusParticipant
I agree completely with Dr. Diablo. You are aiding and abetting the criminals who are directing all this, like a horror movie in which we are all unwitting extras, and perhaps future casualties.
Use your brain, not just your heart – to tell Europeans that we have a duty to admit everyone, that the change forced on us with hostile intent must be welcomed and embraced, is stupid, short-sighted, and wrong-headed.November 2, 2015 at 5:42 pm #24700jalParticipant
We have already entered a period of change. It started with 9/11, followed by destroying the financial system. The destruction continues down unexpected paths.
I agree with you, “…so far the drivers of change, and indeed the changes themselves, are ignored and/or denied.”
I prepare for changes that I see and must accept. I continuously change to try to respond to new forces of change.
I’m grateful that I’m still among those that are still not affected by ????
YESTERDAY IS GONE!November 2, 2015 at 6:07 pm #24701Stone LodgeParticipant
As I read this essay, I wondered how you, Raul, can possibly maintain your optimism, knowing what you know. In this respect, I agree with Diablo and Ceteris that you are thinking with your heart. What I do NOT agree with them about is that this is “stupid” or in any way “unwise”; it is, rather, simply an impulse and plea for humane action. But I am pretty sure that you do not hold any entrenched expectations that this approach will manifest in Europe, or anywhere else, going forward.
Diablo’s reaction to what he sees as inimical to state cohesion and order is natural, statist, and doomed. Raul’s humane treatment won’t alter the ultimate course of events, and may even accelerate it (which I understand to be Diablo’s point), but it is sure a lot more moral and sustaining than the “violent force” arrayed at the gates, and such moral action carries its own grace.
Ultimately, homo sapiens has overshot the capacity of its environment, and the laws of thermodynamics will not be denied. The “refugee crisis” (as if the U.S. hasn’t been dealing with that for decades, for the same basic reasons) is simply a manifestation of the dislocations we must expect and will see everywhere. Resource wars, starvation, sectarian violence, pestilence, lack of clean water, degrading arable lands, devolving productive abilities — all of these factors have local effects, and global impacts. Fleeing any one or more of these merely brings the afflicted into conflict with others struggling with the same or other such factors. It won’t stop, and national boundaries won’t stop the dislocations, nor will our pockets of humanity and compassion.
But Raul is right. Acting with humanity and compassion is the right thing to do. It will probably not alter the final steady state, but it will be far more fulfilling to go down that way than to die with hatred and fear burning in our breasts.November 2, 2015 at 7:00 pm #24702seychellesParticipant
Must say, I agree with Dr. Diablo completely.
And Ilargi, ref your comment ” What’s happening with Syrian refugees today bears some eery resemblances to the boats carrying Jewish refugees prior to WWII that were refused in many ports. Let’s not go there again.” Indeed, you shouldn’t because doing so would necessitate admitting that Israel should be the first to be giving sanctuary to these people. Of course that would be impossible for the most racist country on the planet, that views these people as subhuman, that has been largely responsible for making their homelands unlivable and whose Zionist leaders know that mass immigration will “soften up” and render chaotic both the EU and the USA. No, let’s not go there or it may lead to the “neoliberal” core and we certainly don’t want to expose that.
And Stone Lodge is exactly correct in stating that the large influx of Caribbean and Latin American people into the US over many decades is consequent to the brutal corporate/financial/military exploitation of these lands under the pretense of helping them with democracy and capitalism. The owners keep playing the same game over and over. You can’t fight the devil with a white dove.November 2, 2015 at 8:26 pm #24704Dr. DiabloParticipant
The internet agrees with me? I need to re-think my position.
@ Stone Lodge: thank you for your reply. Certainly our moral duty is paramount. I question, what is our terrible moral duty on a lifeboat? To take on all swimmers until the once saved also sink and drown? Or can they use the safety of the lifeboat to build a solution? Or what?
In any case, I believe it’s a false choice: intentionally false. I do not have to support the unchanging status quo to recognize the plans of evil men. Neither do I have to sink my own tiny boat in a misguided attempt to save all earthly men. We can proceed intelligently and save as many as we can, in as few moves as we can, that still maintain the best outcomes, both long AND short-term. It seems that precious few are doing so, the long-planners wishing to make trouble, and the short-term planners constantly reacting without addressing the root cause. Surely we can discuss and address both? Surely we can restore Syria/Libya AND save Greece/Germany? What would it make to say Syrian lives matter but Austrian lives don’t? Why would we say we can only bring all men down but not raise all men up? To accomplish these things, we have to believe they are possible and make tangible plans to achieve them. And I’m certain we can. However, the first step, my step, is to erase the false paradigm that we can only respond in bad, narrow, harmful ways. Those are the few choices they wish to channel us to, Hegelian-style. We have a duty to expose them and deny their poisoned fruit. Let’s not take it. Syria can be as nice a place as Denmark. Let’s make it so.November 2, 2015 at 11:05 pm #24705Doc RobinsonParticipant
I’m with Ilargi. Europe still has enough “room in the inn” and can be doing much more to prevent these drownings.November 3, 2015 at 2:32 am #24706John DayParticipant
There need not be a dichotomy here. These positions are complimentary, not mutually exclusive.
Clearly, the destabilization of Syria by pumping in money and the hijacked stockpiles of Libyan weapons is the core root of the suffering. Over 10% of the population of Syria has been wounded or killed in the last 4 years. This is done secretly by the US, Turkey, the House of Saud, Israel, etc, for many selfish reasons, and with no thought of human suffering as anything but a useful tool.
We should embrace our best human qualities, rather than fight on the terms of the sociopaths who rule us. Embracing what is best in humans is the only personal choice which can lead to better human existence.
We need to be clever and spontaneous against our sociopathic owners, but we lose if we emulate them to fight them.November 3, 2015 at 3:16 am #24707sangell51Participant
True, there have been large scale migrations in the past. They almost always led to the total destruction of the society that allowed them. Native Americans lost their continents and civilization. Aborigines in Australia did too. We might argue a more prosperous and advanced civilization took their place but the ‘natives’ were left at the bottom of the “new order”.
What is taking place in Europe is the reverse of Western expansion. We know have a less advanced population seeking to overrun a more advanced civilization. The last time that happened led to the Dark Ages in Europe. We might wonder what would happen if Muslims were to gain political power in a modern European nation. A contemporary best seller posits just that happening in France but a more likely scenario would be Sweden. This is a technologically advanced nation like France but much smaller. A Muslim led party could declare it to be a ‘homeland’ for Europe’s Muslims and suddenly you have a Muslim ruled state capable of building modern fighter bombers, tanks and ships. Worse still it would have growing Muslim minorities in the rest of Europe. Sounds like a recipe for war to me.November 3, 2015 at 9:32 am #24715V. ArnoldParticipant
I was with you until your last 9 lines. Islamaphobic as hell.
You equate Muslims with war; how jejune; and flat wrong.November 3, 2015 at 12:56 pm #24725gezelleParticipant
The global cabal has co-opted and defiled our air, water food supply, local and global economies in the name of JOBS, SAFETY, FIGHT ON TERRORISM. We acquiesced to TARP and QE circuses and watched everything crumble around us for JOBS, SAFETY, TERRORISM.
I will not, cannot, absolutely refuse to surrender my humanity, ethics and morality and shrug off the consequences causing this desperate migration.
I will not allow the .01% to profit on endless proxy wars for oil, commodity futures and morally bankrupt power grabs, which have added to the illusion of Western economic stability and “our way of life” and then say that the hundreds of thousands of lives deemed as collateral damage cannot be saved, cannot be witnessed, because of JOBS, WAY OF LIFE, SAFETY, TERRORISM.
I will not be a dupe or willing accomplice to this disgusting charade which seeks to commit shock and awe with my very humanity.
I will not sink to their level and I will not allow them to repeat Thatcher’s god awful ‘ there is no alternative’ once again as they eat us alive,November 4, 2015 at 12:56 am #24729V. ArnoldParticipant
Great rant; spot on.
I withdrew all support and left; fuckem all…
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