Debt Rattle December 10 2017

[Raúl Ilargi Meijer]

Robert Frank Motorama, Los Angeles 1956   • Peak Fantasy Time (David Stockman) • Deflation Remains Biggest Threat As Lofty Stock Markets Head Int
[See the full post at: Debt Rattle December 10 2017]

[V. Arnold]

<There are multiple pieces coming out lately that prove the obvious: once mankind started gathering surpluses, hierarchies developed, and so did inequality.>
I submit that is false; it may be true for western societies; but not others.
The eastern nations of Native North America; were rich in their granery surpluses; as noted in Howard Zinn’s; A People’s History of the United States.
The colonist’s recorded the destruction of vast graneries in their war on the native peoples.
It takes a western educated, twisted I might add, mind to come up with profit motives from surpluses meant for survival.
There is no hope as long as that mindset exists.

[Raúl Ilargi Meijer]

V. Arnold, the article today goes into that. Says lack of horses, oxen in North America plays a role. I think perhaps the difference between private and communal ownership is the big one here.

[Dr. D]

I was going to point out the same thing: it’s an expression of their culture.

No animals, no prisons because, if you have a prison, YOU have to stand in prison all day to keep them there. If animals have sad, work-demanding concentration camp lives, YOU have a concentration camp life. And who wants that? You’d have to be gol-durned idiot to voluntarily go from fishing and hunting fairly and free to a prison camp…even if it’s warmer with larger houses. Proof? So many captured colonials refused to return to “civilization”, even by force.

That invalidates their entire theory. Agriculture does not lead to inequality. Insanity does. But being from an insane culture, they attribute this as a natural human tendency, like all enabling codependents. We see this often expressed as a wish to kill humans in a fake bid to save the earth. Madness.

“One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.” –Booker T. Washington

[SteveB]

I’ll chime in on that with my usual: the cultural belief in the concept of exchange is at the root, not agriculture or hierarchy or property or anything else. As V noted, it’s the profit motive that’s so insidious, and that doesn’t arise out of farming. To beat you over the heads with it: MASSIVE SURPLUSES MAKE NO SENSE UNLESS YOU CAN SELL THEM! Small surpluses (think squirrels burying nuts) are sane, non-leverageable aspects of living across species. Money use (based in exchange belief culture–again, not in agriculture) facilitates leverage. PROFIT INCENTIVE+LEVERAGE=INEVITABLE SOCIETAL DYSFUNCTION (think slavery, pollution, and finance, among a long list). Is it sinking in yet?

[V. Arnold]

Ilargi &
I think perhaps the difference between private and communal ownership is the big one here.
Yes, agree

Dr. D
Again, yes to all, agree.
I very much like this;
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.
Frederick Douglass
A quick look around confirms the truth of that…

[Charles Alban]

What’s lacking is proper regulation of society. Currently we are in kali-yuga, the age of discontent and quarrel. Previous yugas, going back to the golden age of satya yuga….Atlantis, ancient Egypt, India…were regulated according to the principles of varn-ashram. The ruling kings had the responsibility to make sure society functioned smoothly and nobody suffered. The granaries had to be kept full, all signs and portents had to be followed and obeyed, and the kings took advice from the brahmins who interpreted the wisdom books (vedas). The kings were judged according to their diligence in following the religious principles. The fact that ancient Egypt endured for 10 000 years, and ancient China and India similarly, tells you that these systems can work when properly applied. God only knows what our society will look like in 10 000 years. The vedas say at the end of kali yuga the people will be eating their children.

[V. Arnold]

Charles Alban
The vedas say at the end of kali yuga the people will be eating their children.

Couldn’t a case be made, that figuratively, we are already doing that?

[olo530]

The fact that ancient Egypt endured for 10 000 years, and ancient China and India similarly

Charles Alban, Egypt was unified around 3,000 BC and fell into decline around 1,000 BC. What 10,000 years? Even those 2,000 years were not continues, the kingdom fell apart a few times. If you mean that people lived there since forever and tend to live under a central ruler for long periods of time – well, that’s just a function of geography 🙂

[Author]

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