September 12, 2021 at 10:55 pm #87009Veracious PoetParticipant
Meanwhile, NL is going full fourth reich and introducing corona passes for cinemas, restaurants etc from 25 September. Who cares that the vax doesn’t stop you from getting Covid nor from passing it on? Our minister for health keeps saying that the hospital admissions are 90% vaxxed even though the hospitals themselves say they aren’t recording patients’ vaccination status – another day, another lie.
21st century western civilization has no heroes, just mercenaries, morons & martyrs.
FWFSSeptember 12, 2021 at 10:59 pm #87010Bill7Participant
Adding: the reason it wouldn’t surprise me if “Delta” is actually an effect of the vaccines is the
correlation of vaccine uptake and the rise of it.September 12, 2021 at 11:08 pm #87011Doc RobinsonParticipant
sydoz: “Does anyone have info/a study on how much vaccination cuts delta transmission?”
Here’s a study which says “Individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 despite full vaccination have low Ct values and shed infectious virus.” (The Delta variant was said to be the predominant variant during the study.) The results suggest that the fully vaccinated have significantly higher viral loads (and transmissability) when they are asymptomatic, compared to unvaccinated. For symptomatic cases, the viral loads were about the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated, suggesting similar transmissibility.
Asymptomatic cases, unvaccinated: 29% had Ct values <25
Asymptomatic cases, vaccinated: 82% had Ct values <25
Symptomatic cases, unvaccinated: 68% had Ct values <25
Symptomatic cases, vaccinated: 69% had Ct values <25
Low Ct values were detected in vaccinated people regardless of symptoms at the time of testing (Figure 1C). Ct values <25 were detected in 7 of 24 unvaccinated (29%; CI: 13-51%) and 9 of 11 fully vaccinated asymptomatic individuals (82%; CI: 48-97%), and 158 of 232 unvaccinated (68%, CI: 62-74%) and 156 of 225 fully vaccinated (69%; CI: 63-75%) symptomatic individuals. Time from symptom onset to testing did not vary by vaccination status (p=0.40; Supplemental Figure 2). Infectious virus was detected in the sole specimen tested from an asymptomatic fully vaccinated individual. Although few asymptomatic individuals were sampled, these results indicate that even asymptomatic, fully vaccinated people might shed infectious virus.
Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full.pdfSeptember 12, 2021 at 11:21 pm #87012chris_geeParticipant
Influencing people is an area I have some knowledge of. Think of changing underlying beliefs. To go from it is black to it is white is almost impossible in one step. Arguing positions tends to cement those positions. Better a small step which then allows movement towards allowing for a possibility.
Thus take “I think it is possible that vaccines may do some harm.” This is not terribly contentious, because the certainty of the statement is lowered by “I think”, possible, may, and some. Very different from say “The vaccines are dangerous.” and “the vaccines are harmless”. That innocuous framing allows the other to consider the statement without threat to their existing stance, and opens them up to possible evidence that there is a possibility that the vaccines do some harm. Some movement is possible from that opening. It doesn’t have to be total and immediate change from one position to another but can catalyse further change, much like one step on a ladder may lead to another.September 12, 2021 at 11:33 pm #87013upstateNYerParticipant
@sydoz (w/Bill7 responding also) about how much vaccination cuts delta transmission.
Doc Robinson is our stats wizard and he responded with a study’s results.
Here’s my take: we will probably never know. All data is so contaminated we literally don’t know: a) how many covid cases there have been; b) how many people died of covid; c) how much vaccines reduce transmission (if at all); d) how much vaccines reduce hospitalization (if at all); e) how long vaccine protection lasts; f) how many people have died from adverse vaccine events; g) how many people will die of adverse vaccine events in the future; and h) whether covid actually exists in the form that is being presented to us.
Pick a position on this fustercluck that works for you and makes sense, hold onto it, travel through your life with it. That’s the best we can do right now. There is no clear answer.
I think a lot of people who question the vaccines and search for answers are just looking for a CLEAR answer. We’re worried about our vaxxed loved ones.
No one and nothing is going to help with our worries/fears/concerns because the pooch has been screwed.September 12, 2021 at 11:39 pm #87014upstateNYerParticipant
Here’s a thought … why don’t we quit arguing with, debating, and trying to convince kool-aid (KA) people we’re right about this? Let them believe what they want (and, btw, who says we’re the ones who are right?) and just move on with our lives.
I don’t bother trying to convince KA drinkers of anything anymore. Simply not worth it.September 13, 2021 at 12:37 am #87018my parents said knowParticipant
Chris Gee- after all, that’s how we got where we are now: one step at a time.September 13, 2021 at 12:51 am #87019OroborosParticipant
IMHO hospitalizations and deaths occurring now are predominately *delayed* adverse reactions to the mRNA therapies.
VERS and other systems point to massive reactions and deaths, but the Presstitute MSMediawhores and their Big Lie Machine (BLM) are suppressing and distorting the reports and twisting the narrative to make it seem like “Delta” (no real test!) is a real thing causing the surge in hospitalizations and deaths and not the adverse delayed reaction to the Spike Protein-Cullshot.
The real data surrounding the Plandemic has either been accurately collected and is not being shared outside Deep State spider-holes or TPTB are proceeding like the Afghan pullout, no plans just wing-it, throw pasta at the wall until something sticks and yes, we will never know the details.
I don’t think there is a middle third path which goes: intentionally don’t collect the data so we erase the evidence pointing to us.
They either got the real data or they are just lazy incompetents.
Snowden showed that the Deep State spies and catalogs much more than imagined by Joe Six Pack.
So maybe all the stats from the Plandemic have been harvested as golden knowledge for future capers, if you believe they have any competence at all.
If you don’t think the Deep State can walk and chew gum, vis-à-vis the Afghan Fustercluck event, then the Plandemic is just a Performance Piece, a one off.
The Plandemic for my two cents is merely a diversion for the global financial Apocalypse. that is approaching rapidly.
When the debt bomb goes off, it will be the equivalent of a financial asteroid a hundred miles wide hitting the earth at 100,000 mph, several orders of magnitude higher than the real one that wiped up the dinosaurs.September 13, 2021 at 1:10 am #87021
I watched the McCullough interview again over the weekend. One thing that stood out was his passing comment that it seems like much of the world is in a trance. He commented that you can see it in the eyes of many doctors, where they seem to be vaguely aware that something is not quite right, but they fail to see things clearly. And it’s a worldwide phenomenon that also affects countries with politics very different from the US. But he sounded a note of optimism that eventually this will change. These are dark days right now, but the tide will turn.
To have conversations with people, I think the key is to keep asking them what they think. People love to share their own views. Ask more questions. The theme that I keep coming back to in my conversations is that there are too many things that I do not know, and the official story is always changing. Things that seemed so certain have turned out to be wrong. Here’s a short sampling:
We thought the vaccine stayed in the deltoid, then we learned that was wrong.
We thought that the spike protein was harmless, then we learned that was wrong.
We thought the body could clear the spike protein in 2 weeks, then we learned that was wrong.
We thought the vaccine would lead to herd immunity, then we learned that was wrong.
We thought break though infections were very rare, then we learned that was wrong.
We thought viral loads would be lower in the vaccinated, then we learned that was wrong.
We thought the vaccine would prevent severe disease, then we learned that was short lived.
I expect that pattern to continue over the next 6 months. I hope to stay on the sidelines for the next 6 months, if I can. A lot of things the WHO, NIH, CDC and FDA think they know are going to turn out to be wrong.September 13, 2021 at 1:20 am #87022V. ArnoldParticipant
Also, last, but far from least, are the commentators; without them…all is for naught…
I’m not implying that you’re not entitled to your opinion about the quality of this blog, but I guess I’m a little confused by your commentary today, when just within the last two weeks, you were of a mind to leave to because we had supposedly rendered the comments section “unreadable”.
Do try and keep up… 😉September 13, 2021 at 3:07 am #87025
Now this is just plain crazy. Some in Korea are now arguing that Korea should push to the front of the line to sign contracts for new expensive experimental treatments that are still in clinical trials. 950,000 won is about $800 per treatment — which is quite high for Korea. Meanwhile, not a peep in the local media about investigating repurposed drugs that cost only pennies per dose.September 13, 2021 at 3:43 am #87026
Some are now saying that “Delta” is actually Covid vaccine-caused illness. I don’t know if that’s true, and have no way to find out, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Technically speaking, I don’t think that is true. The mutations can be mapped on the genome. We know which amino acids have been substituted, and at which spots. The Delta variant is a real thing. Having said that, there may be reasons why people who have received the vaccine might be more susceptible to disease from this particular variant.September 13, 2021 at 4:21 am #87027russellnblbsParticipant
Re trying to convince others.
It’s borderline impossible and a waste of energy. I know that there are ways to softly poke people into a different direction, but they will only change their mind if they reach the conclusion themselves. As others have noted maybe pointing out contradictions is a start.
In the long run there really is no need to show stats and data because what we are dealing with is religion. It’s like showing a hardcore evangelist dinosaur fossils. You’re talking to a brick wall.
Therefore combat religion with religion. We actually don’t need any data to support our position. All I have been saying is something along the lines of I have a strong disagreement with any sort of technological intervention in nature at a cellular level and therefore will always be against fiddling with it like these shots do and just leave it at that. They can’t argue with it because it is a similarly religious belief to their trust in technology. Anyone else can come up with their own spin on it but it is religion, ethics and metaphysics that is the way out of this, because a misplaced faith and the ending of an established religion (progress, tech, ascension) is what is causing the problem.
Modern science is a tool with limits and not a source of truth, and suffers from being way too reductionist and is built off a inherent fallacy that the observed and observer are separate. Hilariously, science itself found this out the hard way when it got to the quantum level.
Now I don’t think this means we have to turn back to the established churches, but there is no doubt room for something new built around a sacred trust in the natural world, which would put any adherent at odds with the vaccines, the lockdowns and all of it.September 13, 2021 at 5:46 am #87028Michael ReidParticipant
Yes I agree it is a religion of sorts and there is no changing their minds it seems. Simply amazing and we will see in the future who was correct .
Yes I felt betrayed by Madamski but I also enjoyed the intellect. Nevertheless it was a betrayal. Everything I have written has been the truth as I see it and I would never misrepresent myself to others.
For those who don’t know getting a moose is just the start of the work as the butchering comes next and it is a big job.September 13, 2021 at 5:57 am #87029ArchieParticipant
I’ve dressed many a small game when I was a teen. Later, I helped butchered some pigs and cows with my then father-in-law. Long, hard and demanding work. I found that drinking ample amounts of home brewed hard cider made the task more enjoyable. But a moose? That’s a big critter.September 13, 2021 at 7:09 am #87030DarkMatterParticipant
The pandemic of the unvaccinated will continue as the definition of fully vaccinated evolves. Soon fully vaccinated will require three shots, then four shots and so on so the reports of hospitals overrun by the unvaccinated can still be made.September 13, 2021 at 8:47 pm #87075Bill7Participant
> We know which amino acids have been substituted, and at which spots. The Delta variant is a real thing. <
I think this falls into the category “not proved”, for now.
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