Doc Robinson

 
   Posted by at  No Responses »

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 1,446 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: Debt Rattle March 8 2023 #130766
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    “…Arizona, where 17% of high school students say they’ve seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year.”

    As far as book recommendations could go, I highly recommend “The Teenage Liberation Handbook” by Grace Llewellyn.

    the power & magic of adolescence vs. the insufferable tedium of school

    “Youth is the time to go flashing from one end of the world to the other both in mind and body; to try the manners of different nations; to hear the chimes at midnight; to see sunrise in town and country; to be converted at a revival; to circumnavigate the metaphysics, write halting verses, run a mile to see a fire, and wait all day long in the theatre to applaud ‘Hernani.’ — Robert Louis Stevenson

    If you ever read any anthropology, one of the first things you notice is that primal cultures simmer up all their mystery and magic and ask their teenagers to drink deeply.

    A sixteen-year-old Dakota boy fasts until an empowering vision overtakes him. A newly-menstruating Apache girl becomes the goddess White Painted Woman in an intense, joyful ceremony which lasts four days. All over the planet, traditional cultures provide ritual experiences to adolescents, bringing them into contact with the deepest parts of themselves and their heritage.

    There is danger and pain, as well as beauty and exultation, in some of these traditional ways of initiating people into adulthood. I don’t want to make a shallow statement that we’ve got it all wrong because we don’t ask pubescent boys to endure three days of biting wasps. But I’d like to reflect for a minute on the contrast between the way our society initiates its young and these more traditional undertakings.

    What do you get instead of vision? You get school — and all the blind passivity and grey monotone it trains into you.

    For an institution to ask you, during some of your most magical years, to sit still and be good and read quietly for six or more hours each day is barely even thinkable, let alone tolerable. How do you feel when the sun comes out in March and makes the most golden Saturday imaginable, but you have to stay in and clean your room?

    In case you’ve lost touch with your burgeoning beauty, let me remind you that that’s exactly what’s going on. Adolescence is a time of dreaming, adventure, risk, sweet wildness, and intensity. It’s time for you to find yourself, or at least go looking. The sun is rising on your life. Your body is breaking out of its cocoon and ready to try wings. But you have to stay in — for such a long time — and keep your pencils sharpened. School is bad for your spirit, except the pep club kind.

    It’s no accident, I’m sure. The way our society is set up now, something’s got to prevent visionary experience. People who are fully and permanently awakened to the wildness and beauty in and around them make lousy wage-slaves. People who are not distracted by a wellspring of yearnings can briskly assemble automobiles, or focus their intellects on monthly sales charts.

    And unawakened people are less likely to question the things in our society which are horrifically dull, ridiculous, or wrong. The point of visionary experience is to see. When vision comes, eternity is its black velvet backdrop. Everything else comes out on the stage to sing and dance. Some of it fits in with the grandeur of that backdrop, and some of it only clashes, looking ugly and cheap. You end up wanting to adjust your life so that it’s full of stuff that fits in with eternity, and not crammed with things that don’t matter.

    Perhaps one reason some cultures confidently guide their young toward vision is that they’re not worried. They don’t expect anybody’s vision to reveal anything horrible about the society itself. If there is something going wrong with the cultural state of affairs, maybe they want to know, so they can fix it.

    But when you have a dirty house, you don’t offer a magnifying glass to your guests. You probably don’t even open the curtains and let in the light. If we did teenaged visions, democracy would get a boost — but consumerism, injustice, and other ignobilities would take a dive. We would see that far too much of what we accept as “reality” is a blasphemy against true reality. Maybe we don’t invite our young to seek visions because those visions would disrupt the status quo and force an uncomfortable change.

    No force of dullness and ignorance is strong enough, however, to stop you from seeking. Eternity, the Mystery, Truth, God, Goddess, whatever you call it — is too powerful. It will get in, though it has to battle school and other strongholds of society. Writers and artists bring us inklings, though when school introduces us to them, it nearly destroys their potency. And the mystery creeps in around the edges of life: in early morning bird voices, in late night drum beats, through your fascinations with anything strange and unknown…

    https://www.self-directed.org/tp/teenage-liberation-handbook/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 7 2023 #130705
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    @ Red, thanks for the background on the “expert”.

    I’m no expert, but a couple minutes of online searching for journal articles on the subject gave me enough information to doubt such a definitive and sweeping pronouncement by the so-called “expert”.

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 7 2023 #130698
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    CBC News has now “debunked” the warnings about dioxins from the Ohio train fire being transported into Canada by the wind. (WES in Ontario still has cause for concern, though.)

    Experts debunk social media posts warning about Ohio train pollution
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ohio-train-derailment-ontario-quebec-debunk-plume-1.6768128

    According to a release from the agency, the map is designed to simulate the direction and dispersion of particles through the atmosphere. Importantly, it does not show pollution levels near the ground where people live and breathe.

    While this is technically correct, in that the map doesn’t show pollution levels near the ground, it does show the distribution of unidentified particles at ground level (zero meters) up to 10,000 meters.

    The only scientific expert identified and quoted in the CBC story is Philip Jessop, a professor at Queen’s University. Jessop addressed the risks from phosgene, while dismissing the risks from dioxins, which he says “mainly poses a health threat by contaminating food close to where it’s released and is too heavy to have crossed the Great Lakes through the air.

    However, this peer-reviewed study (below) found that most PCDD/F [dioxins] emissions can be transported beyond 100 km. (How far beyond 100 km is presumably disclosed behind a paywall). The article cites three other studies which estimated that the dioxins can travel up to 1000 km, 1900 km, and 810 km.

    We conducted model simulations of the atmospheric fate and transport of PCDD/F to assess the fraction of emitted PCDD/F that would deposit within 100 km from the source. We considered eight major categories of PCDD/F emission sources and six different locations, to cover a wide range of source characteristics, PCDD/F congener profiles and particle size distributions, meteorological conditions and terrain configurations. These results suggest that for sources that have tall stacks and/or high plume rise (e.g., copper smelters, cement kilns, sinter plants), only a small fraction of PCDD/F emissions is deposited locally (typically, less than 10% within 100 km). Other source categories such as municipal solid waste incinerators, medical waste incinerators and diesel trucks lead to a greater fraction of PCDD/F being deposited locally; nevertheless, the majority of their PCDD/F emissions tends to be transported beyond 100 km.

    Atmospheric fate and transport of dioxins: local impacts
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653500005592

    So why would the “expert” quoted by CBC News make such a dismissive statement about the dangers of the dioxins travelling to Canada?

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 5 2023 #130572
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    “Update for E Palestine and surroundings re the EPA’s proposed plan for dioxin testing”

    the EPA is planning to scam the dioxin tests. This is readily apparent from the plan they outlined in Thursday’s press release.

    Here is my response. I recommend that the plan be rejected in its entirety. Once you understand it, you will see how it’s a pass for Norfolk Southern to leave the contamination where it is and move on.

    In the audio above I left out three crucial issues.
    One, it’s outrageous that the railroad’s consultant will be the only people doing the sampling. Two, there must be two consultants and two labs — split sampling.

    Three, there must be citizen witnessing of the sampling. If this plan goes forward, it can waste six months of your time —while people continue to get exposed.

    The problems I cover.
    In the recording above and my response, I describe the issues with the locations of sampling, the types of samples that will be taken (air, water, soil and sediment verge on useless for dioxins at this time). In the recording above, I confront the “background level” study they say they are planning to do — this is where significant cheating can occur.

    https://planetwavesfm.substack.com/p/update-for-e-palestine-and-surroundings#details

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 4 2023 #130475
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    “Plan to incinerate soil from Ohio train derailment is ‘horrifying’, says expert”
    “Soil is being sent to a nearby incinerator with a history of clean air violations, raising fears the chemicals will be redistributed”

    Contaminated soil from the site around the East Palestine train wreck in Ohio is being sent to a nearby incinerator with a history of clean air violations, raising fears that the chemicals being removed from the ground will be redistributed across the region.

    The new plan is “horrifying”, said Kyla Bennett, a former Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) official… “Why on earth would you take this already dramatically overburdened community and ship this stuff a few miles away only to have it deposited right back where it came from?” Bennett asked…

    Some of the waste is being sent to incinerators around Ohio, while about 1.5m gallons of wastewater is being injected into wells deep into the Earth’s crust near Houston. Deep wells can leak waste into groundwater, and are thought to cause earthquakes.

    Meanwhile, some contaminated soil was shipped to a Michigan landfill with a history of discharging PFAS into a public sewer system.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/04/east-ohio-train-derailment-soil

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 3 2023 #130420
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Critique of the planned testing for dioxins at East Palestine:

    They are testing the wrong places if they want to find it, in particular, air, water and soil. It will not be in the air or surface water, and is is only somewhat likely to be in soil samples. They need to be testing greasy sediments and bulk soot from the fires… they are NOT looking for it where it’s the most likely to be: in the burn pit, which is never mentioned; and in wipe samples taken from nearby rooftops.

    That is where they will almost certainly find it, given how much chlorinated chemicals burned, along with lubricating oil and other chemicals that can bond into dioxins when they are all burned burned together.

    PVC also burned — that creates dioxins
    The four train carloads of PVC pellets that burned are certain to have formed dioxins, though these are rarely mentioned. All that is mentioned is the vinyl chloride that was dumped and burned. Also not mentioned is that vinyl chloride was off-gassing for three days while many other chemicals were burning, making chlorine available to those fires.

    But no proposed testing protocol that I have seen will give an accurate picture of what actually happened in those fires.

    For that, there must be wipe samples taken from rooftops and bulk soot samples collected from below where the burn pit was filled in. It would also be good to have wipe samples from the interior and exterior of the vinyl chloride tankers.

    Without samples from the burn pit and nearby rooftops, testing is a work of fiction comparable to using the PCR to ‘diagnose’ a virus. Dioxin is lipophilic. It sticks to fat. They must test greasy substances, such as soot. If they don’t need hexane solvent to take the sample, they are looking in the wrong place — where it will not be.

    Pretending there is an acceptable level of exposure
    Now here is the real catch: the EPA will “direct the company to conduct immediate clean up if contaminants from the derailment are found at levels that jeopardize people’s health.”

    That sounds good, but there are a series of problems with this approach…

    https://planetwavesfm.substack.com/p/epa-orders-dioxin-tests-in-e-palestine#details

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 3 2023 #130414
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    phoenixvoice: “…in the long term it was more difficult to focus generally, that I was anticipating the next traumatic event during times of calm, unable to let go of the hypervigilance.”

    mpsk: “I might add that it also made me think if I just thought harder about it, I could fix anything and everything. I can’t. I am the only thing I have control over, and even that, not all of the time.”

    In my experience, coming up with (and implementing) a realistic plan of action for improvements to the stressful situation can reduce or eliminate the anxiety and hypervigilance.

    In circumstances that cannot be changed, acceptance is said to be the path to inner peace. And attitude is said to be the human freedom which cannot be taken away.

    We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms — to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 3 2023 #130397
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Indiana governor now says they will be testing the incoming train fire waste for “dangerous levels” of dioxins.

    The Indiana landfill says it “cannot accept waste with dioxins,” but it “has already accepted at least three truck-loads of contaminated soil from Ohio.”

    I wonder how rigorous the testing will actually be.

    Effective immediately, I have directed our administration to contract with a nationally recognized laboratory to begin rigorous third-party testing for dangerous levels of dioxins on the material being transported to the Roachdale facility from the East Palestine train spill,” Holcomb said in his statement.

    The Roachdale landfill, operated by Heritage Environmental Services, cannot accept waste with dioxins, the company said Wednesday at a community meeting in the nearby town of Russellville.

    https://www.indystar.com/story/news/environment/2023/03/03/holcomb-orders-testing-of-toxic-train-wreck-waste-coming-to-indiana-roachdale-indiana/69966783007/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 2 2023 #130327
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Looks like the EPA needed the Ohio residents to tell it how to do its job.

    The Environmental Protection Agency said it’s requiring Norfolk Southern to test for dioxins at the site of the toxic train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio.

    The agency said the requirement is in direct response to concerns Administrator Michael Regan heard from residents in East Palestine this week.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/epa-requiring-norfolk-southern-test-dioxins-east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment/

    I wonder whether Norfolk Southern will do testing for both chlorinated dioxins and dibenzofurans.
    I also wonder whether they will do “split sampling” (“taking samples from the same location and sending them to two different labs working under different contracts”) which is “essential to honest testing.”

    Analyzing for Dioxins and Furans
    The samples must be analyzed for a diversity both chlorinated dioxins and dibenzofurans. Furans are dioxins with only one oxygen molecule rather than two. Furans are just as toxic as dioxins, but will not show up if only dioxin is analyzed for. The total dioxin level includes all furans. Not testing for furans will drive down the final result, what is called the TEQ or toxic equivalency.

    Split Sampling is Essential
    Split sampling is essential to honest testing. That means taking samples from the same location and sending them to two different labs working under different contracts and comparing the results. The results should be similar, and if they are not, something is amiss.

    A third and possibly a fourth set of samples from each should be kept for future analysis, if a trusted party can be designated to keep them. That will be a challenge.

    Testing for the Wrong Chemical in the Wrong Places
    The essence of political decontamination is testing for the wrong chemicals in the wrong places, then declaring the area safe.
    This is what’s going on when officials gleefully announce that there is no vinyl chloride in the air, or claim that the tap water is clean and safe. These are all acts of fraud and public deception.

    https://planetwavesfm.substack.com/p/what-must-happen-in-and-around-e

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 2 2023 #130314
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Move along, nothing to see here.

    Rail Workers Falling Ill at East Palestine Cleanup Site, Union Tells Biden Administration
    https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/rail-workers-falling-east-palestine-cleanup-site-union-tells-biden-administration

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 2 2023 #130313
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    It’s now obvious enough that the Guardian has an article about it.

    “Here’s the real reason the EPA doesn’t want to test for toxins in East Palestine”

    because they know they will find it. And if they find it, they’ll have to address the many questions people are asking. It will not be easy to interpret the results of the testing for dioxins in soil, but to avoid testing is irresponsible. The EPA’s mission is to protect human health and the environment. Clearly the situation in East Palestine is the place where EPA should follow its mission and do right by the people who live in this town. EPA must test the soil in East Palestine for dioxins.

    The people who live there need to know so they can make informed decisions about their future.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/02/epa-toxins-test-east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment-dioxins

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 1 2023 #130241
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Someone figured out that just putting some fresh gravel on the tracks wasn’t good enough.

    Ohio governor visits train derailment site as track removal set to begin
    Hazardous waste may be hiding under the train tracks at the derailment site.

    …The track removal is a change from Norfolk Southern’s original plan, which did not include tearing up the tracks.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-governor-visits-train-derailment-site-track-removal/story?id=97549324

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 1 2023 #130233
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    phoenixvoice: “So, the WEFfers, finding that they have exhausted the carrot, are resorting to the stick — enforced deprivation by sabotaging the systems that provide plenty for the people.”

    Time to co-create local systems that provide enough for the people.

    in reply to: Debt Rattle March 1 2023 #130229
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    In today’s news,
    East Palestine Plants Suspend Operations as Workers Get Sick

    The EPA is testing for some toxins but not for dioxins. The workers believed the EPA tests which said it was safe to return to work.

    “some employees repeatedly suffer the same symptoms each time they return to work for a couple of days. They had returned to work once the evacuation order was lifted, believing when they were told it was safe, and again after another air test at the plant showed no signs of problems.”

    With employees continuing to suffer ill effects since the train derailment now more than three weeks ago, CeramFab and two of its affiliated plants in East Palestine have been forced to cease manufacturing – again.

    The situation is most serious for CeramFab on East Taggart Street, according to plant manager Howard Yang. Employees at that 80,000-square-foot plant next to the derailment site, have suffered the most health issues with some reporting a medical diagnosis of chemical bronchitis. The company’s other plant, which houses CeramSource and WYG Refractories, is less than a mile from the train derailment site. It has seen employees suffer rashes and respiratory issues.

    Yang said some employees repeatedly suffer the same symptoms each time they return to work for a couple of days. They had returned to work once the evacuation order was lifted, believing when they were told it was safe, and again after another air test at the plant showed no signs of problems.

    https://businessjournaldaily.com/east-palestine-industry-struggles-to-keep-employees-well-at-work/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 28 2023 #130197
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Not testing for dioxin = Science.

    During a news conference Tuesday afternoon, Regan addressed the decision by the EPA to not test for dioxins… He said any testing decisions will be based on science.

    https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/epa-administrator-returns-to-east-palestine/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 28 2023 #130148
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Feb 23 photo from site of Ohio train fire. Looks like they put some fresh gravel on the tracks.


    https://www.wesa.fm/environment-energy/2023-02-28/toxic-derailment-waste-heading-to-facilities-in-ohio-indiana-epas-regan-returns-to-east-palestine

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 28 2023 #130135
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Local news update from Youngstown, Ohio

    EPA not testing for dioxins, scientist calls reason ‘lame’

    EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (WKBN) – Scientist Stephen Lester says there is no doubt in his mind that dioxins were released during the Feb. 6 controlled burn of vinyl chloride. He says the EPA’s reasoning for not testing is a “lame excuse” and “wrong.”

    According to United States Environmental Protection Agency Region 5 administrator Debra Shore, the agency will not test for the highly toxic chemical compound dioxins at this time…

    “I think they’re reluctant to test, because they know they will find it, and they will be put in a place where they have to address it,” said Lester, science director at the Center for Health, Environment and Justice…

    Lester says even if there is no baseline from prior testing to compare levels, the EPA should still be able to do testing to determine if the level that’s there is a risk.

    https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/epa-not-testing-for-dioxins-scientist-calls-reason-lame/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 27 2023 #130049
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Some food for thought about the Woody Harrelson moment, from Mathew Crawford:

    While Woody Harrelson did not say “Pharmafia”, he said “drug cartels”, by which we know that he means Big Pharma. We’re on the same page. And…he was…allowed to say it.

    Allowed…why, exactly?

    You’ve just been given an ounce of social approbation. Is this the thin gruel that keeps you alive?

    Most people in the Medical Freedom Movement—the millions who woke up due to harsh mandates and other authoritarian government actions—are happy to simply sit behind their screens and pump their fists. These are the same throngs following Chaos Agents through social media and Substack. These are mostly the intuitives who are not well enough educated to track down all the important information on their own, but know that the mainstream media and governments were lying to them. They are at risk of falling into the trap of the mass formation of the movement—and at risk of finding themselves steered by a false prophet.

    Why would powerful corporate interests want to keep you alive as you study their crimes and threaten to do something about them?

    I have multiple hypotheses that are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and I’m not sure the list is exhaustive in a realistic sense. I may add suggestions from the peanut gallery this time.

    Part of the corporate power base (possibly military, too) was always against Plandemonium, but could not stop it. Instead, they waited to build momentum on the other side.

    Perhaps like FTX/Alameida, the Pharmafia’s plan was one of several attempts at global domination (the “vax tax”) that failed, and this is a necessary step toward recall.

    This is part of an elaborate trap, much like Mao’s Hundred Flowers campaign that saw his opponents out themselves—compiled into an easy list, complete with street addresses so that his communist troops could rip them from their homes one-by-one and imprison, enslave, or murder those who could not be otherwise turned.

    Woody Harrelson may be the perfect man to deliver the message such that we cannot easily discern the meaning. He is not a man from a powerful family. He is the son of a heinous hitman who worked his own way up from poverty and obscurity in a career with notable downturns. You won’t find him in Jeffrey Epstein’s little black book. He is a man that I quite frankly want to root for, given what I know about him.

    And yet the fact remains: he was allowed to say what he said.

    Unless there is a James O’Keefe moment yet to come where Woody Harrelson finds himself on the outside?

    https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/woody-harrelson-said-the-quiet-part

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 26 2023 #129991
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    The body double talk reminds me of the 1993 film Dave about a secretly comatose president who was replaced by a lookalike for public appearances, while the “White House” continued to govern.

    http://www.impawards.com/1993/posters/dave.jpg

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 24 2023 #129794
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Toxic Wastewater From Ohio Train Derailment Headed to Texas
    Texas company injects hazardous waste into the ground for disposal

    Toxic wastewater used to extinguish a fire following a train derailment in Ohio is headed to a Houston suburb for disposal… The wastewater will be sent to Texas Molecular, which injects hazardous waste into the ground for disposal…

    “It’s … very, very toxic,” Dr. George Guillen, the executive director of the Environmental Institute of Houston, said, but the risk to the public is minimal.

    “This injection, in some cases, is usually 4,000 or 5,000 feet down below any kind of drinking water aquifer,” said Guillen, who is also a professor of biology and environmental science at the University of Houston-Clear Lake.

    Both Guillen and Deer Park resident Tammy Baxter said their greatest concerns are transporting the chemicals more than 1,300 miles (2,090 kilometers) from East Palestine, Ohio; to Deer Park, Texas.

    “There has to be a closer deep well injection,” Baxter told KTRK. “It’s foolish to put it on the roadway. We have accidents on a regular basis … It is silly to move it that far.”

    https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/toxic-wastewater-from-ohio-train-derailment-headed-to-texas/3201169/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 22 2023 #129657
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    This is an example of a hopper car for plastic pellets. Note the angled bottoms at each end of the car.

    https://www04.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/images/commercial/financing/equipment-financing/rail/equipment-covered-plastic.jpg
    “Our plastic pellet fleet consists of cars with loading capacities from 5,200 to 6,500 cubic feet and gross rail loads of 263,000 to 286,000 pounds.” (Wells Fargo Rail)

    Note the angled bottoms at each end of the hopper car. This feature can be seen on a couple of burning cars in the video at 0:49 seconds (with full screen view):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSM67N74gtQ&ab_channel=CBSPittsburgh

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 22 2023 #129652
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    This CBS TV news coverage of the initial train fire that night (before the controlled burn of the vinyl chloride a few days later) gives some indication of the amount of smoke being generated.

    At 0:49 in the video, it looks like at least two hopper cars (which are loaded from the top) are lying on their side with the load spilled and on fire. A document from the EPA listed four hopper cars in the fire, loaded with PVC pellets.


    10:00 am Update – Train derailment causes massive fire in East Palestine, Ohio

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 22 2023 #129650
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Despite the EPA keeping quiet about the dioxins (and not testing for it), some mainstream news sources are starting to address it.

    From an article at The Hill today:

    When polyvinyl chloride, or PVC, is burned, the extremely toxic carcinogen dioxin is released. Stat noted PVC was present in four of the cars initially on fire in the wreck.

    https://thehill.com/newsletters/health-care/3870205-political-fight-erupts-over-toxic-spill/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 22 2023 #129630
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Biden DOJ Backing Norfolk Southern in High Court Case

    The Biden administration is taking the side of the corporations (instead of being on the side of people harmed by the corporations), and it’s now up to the Supreme Court.

    Norfolk Southern — the railroad giant whose train derailed and caused a toxic chemical fire in a small Ohio town earlier this month — has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to throw out a 2017 lawsuit filed by a cancer-afflicted former rail worker — and the Biden administration is siding with the corporation, reporting from The Lever revealed last week.

    If the high court, dominated by six right-wing justices, rules in favor of Norfolk Southern, it could be easier for the profitable rail carrier to block pending and future lawsuits, including from victims of the ongoing disaster in East Palestine.

    Moreover, it “could create a national precedent limiting where workers and consumers can bring cases against corporations…”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2023/02/22/biden-doj-backing-norfolk-southern-in-high-court-case/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 21 2023 #129566
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    If a hazardous train has a few cars of non-hazardous material, the train is not considered “hazardous”.

    Because the Norfolk Southern train had some cars containing semolina wheat and vegetables as well as about 20 cars carrying hazardous chemicals, the entire train was not labeled hazardous, and officials were not notified the train would be passing through the state.

    https://www.statnews.com/2023/02/21/east-palestine-train-chemicals/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 21 2023 #129564
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Four hopper cars loaded with PVC pellets burned in the initial fire after the Ohio train derailment.

    Similar to this car:

    “Our plastic pellet fleet consists of cars with loading capacities from 5,200 to 6,500 cubic feet and gross rail loads of 263,000 to 286,000 pounds.”
    https://www.wellsfargo.com/com/financing/equipment-financing/rail/equipment/covered-hoppers/

    Four hopper cars hold more than a million pounds of PVC pellets.

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 21 2023 #129563
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    This is the first news article I’ve seen (published today, two weeks after the Ohio train fire) which mentioned that four carloads of PVC burned during the initial fire, potentially creating high levels of dioxin.

    This article also says “The EPA has not yet tested for dioxin contamination”

    What other toxic chemicals were created or used in the fires?

    Dioxin. One big concern is the possibility of contamination by dioxin, a highly toxic, carcinogenic, and persistent compound released when polyvinyl chloride burns. Polyvinyl chloride, or PVC, was present in four of the cars originally on fire… The EPA has not yet tested for dioxin contamination, but a similar train derailment in Germany in 2000 found high levels of dioxin in the area where fires had burned polyvinyl chloride.

    Experts weigh in on potential health hazards posed by chemicals in Ohio train derailment
    https://www.statnews.com/2023/02/21/east-palestine-train-chemicals/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 21 2023 #129562
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Today, the head of the EPA talked “tough” but then said he didn’t know if the EPA is testing for dioxin.

    “In no way, shape or form will Norfolk Southern get off the hook for the mess they created,” EPA Administrator Michael Regan vowed at a news conference in East Palestine… Still, Regan said he is not sure if EPA is testing for dioxin, a carcinogen, as some lawmakers and advocates have requested.

    EPA orders Norfolk Southern to clean up toxic Ohio derailment
    https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-ohio-train-derailment-20230221-klb6qyh2kjbcdhvtbdz2vcuh2a-story.html

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 21 2023 #129561
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Regarding dioxins from the Ohio train fire, Newsweek reported today that “the EPA has so far not stated publicly whether it was monitoring for them.”

    https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-train-derailment-fire-pollutants-dioxins-furans-concern-1782778

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 21 2023 #129549
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    “Once the immediate shock of the Ohio incident has passed, no doubt much of the focus will be on the inevitable litigation – particularly when the cost of treating all of those additional cancers becomes clear.” (from “Expect More of This” article at The Consciousness of Sheep .co.uk)

    The costs won’t be clear for decades, if at all. The latency period for the resulting cancers can be 15 years or more.

    In 1976, a chemical plant malfunctioned in northern Italy, and a cloud of gas including dioxin was released (the Seveso disaster). Animals started dying. “After the incident, ICMESA initially refused to admit that the dioxin release had occurred. At least a week passed before a public statement was issued that dioxin had been emitted, and another week passed before an evacuation began.” (Wikipedia)

    Fifteen years after the accident, mortality among men in high-exposure zones A (804 inhabitants) and B (5,941 inhabitants) increased from all cancers (rate ratio (RR) = 1.3, 95% confidence interval (CI): 1.0, 1.7), rectal cancer (RR = 2.4, 95% CI: 1.2, 4.6), and lung cancer (RR = 1.3, 95% CI: 1.0, 1.7), with no latency-related pattern for rectal or lung cancer. An excess of lymphohemopoietic neoplasms was found in both genders (RR = 1.7, 95% CI: 1.2, 2.5). Hodgkin’s disease risk was elevated in the first 10-year observation period (RR = 4.9, 95% CI: 1.5, 16.4), whereas the highest increase for non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (RR = 2.8, 95% CI: 1.1, 7.0) and myeloid leukemia (RR = 3.8, 95% CI: 1.2, 12.5) occurred after 15 years. No soft tissue sarcoma cases were found in these zones (0.8 expected). An overall increase in diabetes was reported, notably among women (RR = 2.4, 95% CI: 1.2, 4.6). Chronic circulatory and respiratory diseases were moderately increased, suggesting a link with accident-related stressors and chemical exposure. Results support evaluation of dioxin as carcinogenic to humans and corroborate the hypotheses of its association with other health outcomes, including cardiovascular- and endocrine-related effects.

    Health Effects of Dioxin Exposure: A 20-Year Mortality Study
    https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/153/11/1031/64538

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 20 2023 #129482
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    @ John Day

    The video shows the air dispersion starting Feb 4, the morning after the 9pm train crash. More than half of the video happens before the controlled burn of the vinyl chloride on Feb 6.

    Before the controlled burn, the burning train cars included four hopper cars loaded with PVC pellets. I saw a comment somewhere saying that this amounts to 1 million pounds of PVC in the fire. This didn’t get much attention because PVC is not considered a hazardous material to transport. But guess what, when PVC is burned, especially in an open fire instead of a special incinerator, it’s a major source of dioxins in the environment.

    The train manifest from the EPA shows that four hopper cars loaded with PVC (“Polyvinyl”) were actually in the fire:
    https://response.epa.gov/sites/15933/files/TRAIN%2032N%20-%20EAST%20PALESTINE%20-%20derail%20list%20Norfolk%20Southern%20document.pdf



    HYSPLIT Air Dispersion model depicting the potential transport of chemical plumes from Ohio disaster

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 20 2023 #129473
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    @ Polemos, thanks for the NAC info a few days ago.

    @ John Day
    This image was posted here at TAE a few days ago (from Twitter), here it is shown from another site, which also has a video showing changes from Feb 4 to 7


    NOAA Hysplit Model Particle Cross-Sections
    https://strangesounds.org/2023/02/ohio-disaster-cover-up-noaa-removes-two-images-of-hysplit-models-from-their-article-here-they-are.html

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 18 2023 #129348
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    T Bear: “…things that countered the effects of mRNA injections …”

    A combination of of bromelain (an enzyme found in pineapples) and Acetylcysteine (also known as N-acetylcysteine or NAC) was found to disrupt the spike protein, via “breakage of glycosidic linkages and disulfide bonds.”

    Bromelain and Acetylcysteine (BromAc) has synergistic action against glycoproteins by breakage of glycosidic linkages and disulfide bonds. We sought to determine the effect of BromAc on the spike and envelope proteins and its potential to reduce infectivity in host cells. Recombinant spike and envelope SARS-CoV-2 proteins were disrupted by BromAc. Spike and envelope protein disulfide bonds were reduced by Acetylcysteine. In in vitro whole virus culture of both wild-type and spike mutants, SARS-CoV-2 demonstrated a concentration-dependent inactivation from BromAc treatment but not from single agents.

    The Combination of Bromelain and Acetylcysteine (BromAc) Synergistically Inactivates SARS-CoV-2
    https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/3/425

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 15 2023 #129129
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    • Palestine, Ohio Train Wreck: It’s The Dioxin (Coppolino)

    Yes, burning PVC or vinyl chloride is really bad news, since if it’s burned somewhere other than at a specially designed incinerator, the incomplete combustion will create dioxin, furans, etc.

    Dioxins are called persistent organic pollutants (POPs), meaning they take a long time to break down once they are in the environment. Dioxins are highly toxic and can cause cancer, reproductive and developmental problems, damage to the immune system, and can interfere with hormones.

    https://www.epa.gov/dioxin/learn-about-dioxin

    Looking for some information about why the vinyl choloride monomer (VCM) was being transported by rail like that in the first place, instead of it being turned into stable PVC at its origin site, I found some related comments on reddit (r/ChemicalEngineering) which seem to be deleted now, but are still cached.

    The explanation given was that most PVC manufacturing sites make the VCM themselves before turning it into PVC, but there are still a few PVC manufacturing sites which get their VCM supply by rail.

    Question on reddit r/Chemical Engineering:
    While all this is true, it does not answer the original question of why the VCM was being shipped and not polymerized at the site where it was created. Having studied this process a good bit in school, I was taught you want to store as little VCM as possible and turn it into PVC ASAP.

    Reply:
    This is the case for most PVC producers. Basically the whole chlorine chain, starting from brine and ending up with PVC (along with chlorine, caustic, VCM and other smaller streams). However, there are a few sites in US, mostly built in the 60s/70s, that are only PVC manufacturing that rely on VCM supply via rail. I worked at one of those sites for a little over 7 years. Every drop of VCM that plant has processed has been provided via rail since then. That particular site was picked for a PVC plant due to cheaper and easy access to “good” water and lower labor costs. What was true when plant was built is still true today, good profit even with relying on rail.

    Another comment, about preventing such disasters:
    Think of it like a flare. In the industry, if an overpressurized vessel didn’t have a safety valve dumping the excess material causing overpressure to the flare system which burns it gradually, the vessel would explode. Similarly, here, instead of letting it explode by itself, they lit it on fire.

    That being said, IMO, it was a complete BS move that has absolutely ruined the lives of people and animals. We’re going to get a ton of cancer cases out of that place. They are downplaying it in the media because big business owns it but this is a Chernobyl-level event. It’s complete BS that they aren’t reporting the severity of it properly. Chickens ten miles away are dying in their coups. If I was the EPA, I’d shut that rail company down and liquidate all their assets to pay for all the damage and havoc that has been caused, most of which we are yet to see.

    From a safety point of view, I have the following recommendations:

    Rails should be inspected and should have security measures to make them tamper-proof. No one should be able to derail a train accidentally or on purpose.

    All throughout the rail lines and all the cities that the rail goes through should have fire departments who are knowledgeable about what is going through their city and how to neutralize it. The rail companies should pay for the chemicals required to neutralize the hazardous chemicals.

    Rail operators should also know how to handle those chemicals safely. The safety datasheets of those chemicals should be made available to all concerned parties.

    Toyota has a hydrogen tank that needs an armor-piercing round to damage it. It doesn’t get damaged in an accident. Maybe we need to use that type of MOC if it works well with the chemicals being handled.

    A train just doesn’t derail on its own. But that’s a political topic for some other time. Be careful about who you elect.

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 14 2023 #129036
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    John Day: “Note that if you had any cryptocurrency financial dealings last year you have a LOT of documentation to file on your income tax return, or you will be in violation of Federal Law”

    My theory is that one purpose of such easy to ignore laws, like cryptocurrency transaction filings, or draft registration of 18 year old males, is for the federal government to have something that can later be used to pressure these people to ‘talk” if they might have some useful information about somebody else.

    “Cooperate with our investigation, and we won’t file federal charges against you for money laundering, or draft evasion. You wouldn’t like the federal prisons.”

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 14 2023 #129024
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Part 3 of 3

    Red: “What is this problem we are seeing with the difference to authority?”

    Another paywalled article says that when the American public doesn’t defer to authority, they generally support the ideals behind the rule of law, but they don’t believe the authorities are acting in accord with those ideals.

    Does the American Public Accept the Rule of Law – The Findings of Psychological Research on Deference to Authority
    https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/deplr56&div=30&id=&page=

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 14 2023 #129021
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Part 2 of 3:

    Red: “What is this problem we are seeing with the difference to authority?”

    The following article is behind a paywall, but the abstract has some clues. I interpret it to mean that deference to authorities is related to the resources one gets from that system, and the ways one identifies with certain groups in that system.

    “the psychology of legitimacy involves both instrumental [resource-based] and relational [identification-based] elements”

    The Psychology of Legitimacy: A Relational Perspective on Voluntary Deference to Authorities
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327957pspr0104_4

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 14 2023 #129020
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Multiple links aren’t posting, so here’s part 1 of 3:

    Red: “What is this problem we are seeing with the difference to authority?”

    Instead of the Stockholm Syndrome, I think it’s more about the issue of perceived legitimacy.

    “If a person believes that an entity has the right to exercise social control, he or she may also accept personal disadvantages.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_(political)

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 14 2023 #129016
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Eat the mealworms?

    Besides the allergic reactions possible from eating insects (similar to dust mite or shellfish allergies), it turns out that mealworms require as much or more fossil fuels than meat, for each kilogram of edible protein.

    Then why are insects being pushed? They are said to produce less greenhouse gases than livestock, and require less space.

    although the fossil energy needed to mealworms rearing is comparable to or higher than conventional food sources such as milk or different meats, these insects produce reduced GHG—one of the main factors inducing climate changes—and the space required for their rearing is much lower than conventional livestock

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7952304/

    in reply to: Debt Rattle February 13 2023 #128977
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    New Zealanders are learning that they cannot rely on their digital ‘money’ or their government to save them.

    Gisborne shoppers warned not to panic buy as Eftpos services crash

    Tairāwhiti Civil Defence is urging residents not to panic buy as Eftpos and Paywave services remain out of action.

    Damage to a key fibre-optic cable means residents are only able to make purchases using cash.

    Tairāwhiti Civil Defence controller Ben Green cautioned there was not need to panic buy.
    Use what you have at home. Come together with neighbours and support one another,” he said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/weather-news/300806079/live-state-of-national-emergency-declared-as-cyclone-gabrielle-smashes-nz

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 1,446 total)