Debt Rattle Dec 23 2013 – How Do We Define Value?


Home Forums The Automatic Earth Forum Debt Rattle Dec 23 2013 – How Do We Define Value?

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Author
  • #9989

    John Vachon Grand Grocery in Lincoln, Nebraska 1942 I would like to get your thoughts on one of the most basic questions in an economy: what is value,
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle Dec 23 2013 – How Do We Define Value?]


    Corporations have value and people don’t. That’s all you really need to know. This is the dominant narrative of our culture and Professor Perry is perfectly in tune with it.

    As I have said before corporations have become the dominant human organizational model. So it follows that corporations whose very existence is founded upon their capitalization will hold those values as supreme.

    We are in a phase where corporations and government are fighting out what powers each will have. In the West there is not a single elected government that is not eager to cede all sorts of power to corporations. In part of course because corporations have such a powerful influence on which politicians lead governments. So it isn’t really a fair fight and so also as I say and will repeat; corporations are the dominant human organizational model. Superior to people,or super people because as we know in the eyes of the law corporations are people too. You see how circular it all is?


    What was the “Value” of the Zimbabwe Stock Market through the years of massive devaluation there?

    How has the “Value” of the Dollar held up along a trend line over the last 100 years of Fed stewardship?

    Could the Financial Markets be the new ATM? The Fed’s factory outlet for liquidity? Can’t forget, many of those “Rich” market participants are Pension Funds and Annuity Holders, no?

    Maybe what’s being foolishly engineered here is a grand trickle down experiment…that hasn’t really begun trickling yet?

    Ben has warned us of what is to come, that he has a “printing press” and knows how to use it.

    Soon, when the trickle becomes a Niagara Falls, we’ll see the mettle of the “Great Men” tested. And as long as there is a Central Bank issued Credit based Currency, there will be no deflation. That’s the stuff of Real Money, not IOU’s. (A Silver Dollar?)

    My position is, we are at the construction/fabrication stages of the Crackup boom here. When the Fed loses it and can’t stop the avalanche it will have caused by the excessive creation, distribution and stacking of binary “Values” , upon being deposed by some Populist Pol, elected by hot consumers irate over $15 Ground Round, the long awaited deflation will take center stage, after the destruction of the present monetary regime.

    At that point, after electronic entries achieve their intrinsic “Value” of around 14 cents a kilowatt hour and paper currency hit’s it’s tonnage value of a hundred bucks, (real) the bricks and mortar and resources of productivity will hopefully remain standing. Therein, “Value” will be found again. Though not priced in “What Was.”


    The FED has to keep the stock market up. People are starting to believe there is a recovery. The US is still the currency of last resort and they have been able to prop up this market for a very long time and probably will for a lot longer. I have been a long time reader of this website and many other websites such as the oil drum and our finite world…and I am starting to wonder if things might have been exaggerated by when the crash is going to happen and by how much..If you can fool the people into thinking there is a recovery maybe there will be….It is dangerous to get caught in group think….so I am trying to keep an open mind….maybe just maybe the FED has so many tools and ways of manipulating currency that they can get us out of this mess..Now don’t get me wrong something this big and possibly very deadly that we are facing is not to be taken lightly but then again one must live their lives today….Ted


    rapier – “We are in a phase where corporations and government are fighting out what powers each will have.”

    Do you think there’s a fight going on? I don’t. I think what we’re only just catching glimpses of (collusion between government and corporations) has existed for a very, very long time, perhaps since the founding of the country, but most certainly since Reagan’s time. “Some animals are more equal than others” is working well behind the scenes.

    If a congressman goes into government with little money, he certainly doesn’t come out that way. Who’s fighting? More like cashing in, then retiring to a cushy corporate job as payment for all their hard work on the corporation’s behalf.

    I don’t see a fight, but a very successful symbiotic relationship.


    ted – “The FED has to keep the stock market up.” Why is that? Is it for the same reasons they kept interest rates down for so long under Greenspan? A wizard behind the scenes manipulating dials, steering the masses, all the while espousing the “free market”?

    I liked Karl Denninger’s piece entitled, “Everything in Economics is a Balance Sheet”. What you add to one side, you take away from the other side. So, ted, who is getting helped and who is getting hurt, because it’s a certainty that someone is.


    Here’s a good article on the astronomical rise in prices due to the Fed’s handiwork. Take a look at some of the numbers!

    “The financialization of America; where Wall Street con artists, shysters and swindlers rake in billions for shuffling paper and making risky casino bets; mega-corporations ship blue collar middle class jobs to Asia in an all out effort to increase quarterly profits; politicians spend future generations into the poor house in order to get re-elected; and the Federal Reserve purposefully creates monetary inflation to prop up the corrupt system; has systematically destroyed the working middle class and created generations of debt slaves. The American people have been foolish, infantile, and easily duped. But it is clear to me who the real culprits in our long downward spiral have been. Lord Acton stated the obvious, many years ago:

    ‘The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.’ ― John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton”


    If you’re keeping ahead of inflation, then good for you, but there are many who are not. Personally, I’m tired of running on the Fed’s treadmill. How about you? The Fed is supposed to be providing “stable” prices. “Stable” means “not likely to change or fail; firmly established”. Is that what we’ve had?


    And just for your Christmas reading enjoyment, here are two articles that compare our current system to The Hunger Games, just to catch a glimpse where we’re going if we don’t wake up.

    May the Odds Ever Be in Your Favor – The Reaping:


    May the Odds Ever Be in Your Favor – Hope and Defiance:


    These are two really good articles from someone who I believe sees (as do Ilargi and Nicole) what’s really going on.


    The fight between governments and corporations was decided long ago. The outcome became inevitable the money corporate money was allowed to enter politics.

    But inflation there is not. If you can’t figure out how prices can rise without inflation, you’re not going to understand what happens. No chance.

    Merry Christmas to you all, in Grace and in Light.


    “maybe just maybe the FED has so many tools and ways of manipulating currency that they can get us out of this mess”

    Would these be the same tools that manipulated us into the mess? Will the Fed find “religion” and change it’s spots from those of central planning Corporatism to some form of egalitarian benevolence?

    Unfortunately, the most Valuable thing of all has been lost here. Liberty.

    As people are forced to line up at the public trough, like cattle in a feed lot, their choices diminish daily. Such is the Faustian Bargain of sacrificing liberty for security.

    Again, sans pitchforks, absolute power will continue to corrupt, absolutely.


    What if you are wrong? And the governments of the world allow the U.S to keep doing what it is doing…..Inflation rather than deflation…they will do everything thing they can to inflate the economy and that is what they have been doing and it is what path they will take in the future. I am not saying it is fair or just but this is how our society has been for the last 300 years; keeping the status quo where it is at any and all costs. They are not going to wring their hands and give up they are going to manipulate the system to keep it more of the same….and we will see them do things we never thought they had the ability or power to do….we already have seen some of that. Ted

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.