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September 19, 2012 at 8:42 pm #8434Raúl Ilargi MeijerKeymaster
Banner demonstration Budapest, September 4, 1012 After publishing Hungary Throws Out Monsanto AND The IMF 10 days ago, I've been keeping an eye on
[See the full post at: Hungary Says The IMF And EU Want To Make It A Colony Of Slaves]September 20, 2012 at 3:42 am #5699
What about Belarus?
Many of the things you’re praising about Hungary: Relatively recent Resistance to onerous demands of IMF etc.
All that and more could be said for Belarus as well. It resisted such overtures ever since breaking away from the Soviet Union ~ 20 years ago.
In the end, it couldn’t go it alone (see the Russian bailout last year when the financial system was on the verge of collapse).
And from what i’ve read…..life in Belarus has been far from rosy.
The experience of Belarus suggests to me that refusing outside “support”, attempting to forge ahead on one’s own, is unlikely to produce a desirable outcome. Society still has to face too many wants and not enough haves. And that inevitably produces the repression that is so abundant in Belarus, with its red and black prison system — and a President who never loses elections.September 20, 2012 at 4:06 am #5701
Small Country = Colony
Throughout Eastern Europe, one country after another is either being pulled into the EU/IMF orbit or drawn back into the Russian orbit.
Serbia is a dramatic example.
IMF/EU meetings on day 1
Private meetings with Putin on day 2.
At the present time, advantage Putin.
It seems inevitable — as though these nation states are always destined to be colonies to someone.
Why: Geography. They don’t have the diversity of soil, mineral, petroleum deposits and navigatable river valleys, and/or deep water ocean ports to ever enable lasting economic independence. They will forever be independent mostly in name only in good times — and a province within a rising power during other times.September 20, 2012 at 10:47 am #5707TheTrivium4TWParticipant
Being that this is the new thread… I’ll deliver what I promise – proof that QEing for jobs is a big, fat narrative hoax.
First a couple facts.
1. The government has a law that says 23% of federal contracts should go to small businesses. They missed their goal. Again. Most often multi-nationals and often in no bid contracts.
2. 90%+ of new American jobs are created by small business.
So, if they *really* wanted to create jobs in America, instead of deceive you, they’d give more contracts to small business. That’s easy and completely under their control.
That’s not all – they’d end the tax breaks for multi-national offshoring as well.
So, why don’t they do these things? It costs the Money Power money and power.
Why do QE and lie about it being for jobs and growth? Because it enriches the Money Power via their corporate fronts and increases their power.
It’s like a coin is labelled “enrich private banking oligarchy” on one side and “hurt banking oligarchy on the other.”
How many times in a row does does “enrich private banking oligarchy” have to come up before folks figure out what should be obvious by now?
I’m not a big fan of the mainstream use of Occam’s Razor. For example, someone told me that the Fed is covering up incompetence by lying about its mandate and fabricating a dual mandate because that is a simpler explanation than the Fed being criminal in nature.
Who is the arbiter of the idea that incompetence is a “simpler explanation” than is criminality? Surely nobody that has read up on history and actually understands it.
Again, we get back to what “words” mean and how we can manipulate those words into meaning what makes us comfortable and not what they actually mean.
The scariest part about the Fed lying about its mandate isn’t that they lie about their mandate.
The scariest part is that the ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT covers for that lie WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
Search “Federal Reserve Mandate Section 2A” and try and reconcile it with the first chart at this link…
BTW, that bubble you see there is the root cause of the coming depression – an idea so simple that even a cave man could get it.
Who criminally drove the bubble and lied about it?
Who is the root cause of the coming depression?
Ilargi has a good point that it isn’t the Federal Reserve doing this all by themselves.
But it is the Money Power and the totality of their resources under control that appealed to the greed and narcissism of society in order to plan and achieve this grand agenda of theirs.
They study history. They know our weaknesses better than we know ourselves. They exploit those weaknesses to increase their power and control and the reduce everyone else’s.
In that context, the Money Power is batting over 99%… the 1% being a Greece or a Hungary. But they’ll line up later or they’ll become “terrorists” like nation’s that don’t allow Debt Money Tyranny.
The simplest explanation to batting 99% is that their intent is to be at bat gaining more power and wealth and impoverishing everyone else.September 20, 2012 at 11:48 am #5709
Hungary’s Problem: Its borders
In Central and Eastern Europe: Look at the state defined pretty clearly by the following mountain ranges: Western border = Alps; North, East and Southeastern border = Carpathian Mountains; Southwestern border = Dinaric Alps
What nation’s boundaries are defined by those mountains?
Currently no single state. It currently encompasses Eastern Austria, Southern Slovakia, All of modern Hungary, Western Romania (notably Transylvania), Northern Serbia, as well as Eastern Bosnia and Croatia.
But if we look historically, one can see a pretty clear outline of the Austrian and Austro-Hungarian Empire (from ~ 1800-1918).
If we look further back in history, we see the border of the Kingdom of Hungary which existed with variations for ~ 800 years (~1000 AD – 1800 AD).
Eventually, I suspect that lingering tensions between Hungary and Romania will re-emerge. Northwestern Romania (~ Transylvania as defined by the Carpathian Mountains) has significant Hungarian ethnic, and cultural ties.September 20, 2012 at 4:45 pm #5713p01Participant
Viscount St. Albans post=5404 wrote:
Eventually, I suspect that lingering tensions between Hungary and Romania will re-emerge. Northwestern Romania (~ Transylvania as defined by the Carpathian Mountains) has significant Hungarian ethnic, and cultural ties.
I used to think the same, however reading more about the whole doo-doo that Eastern Europe is in up to the eyebrows, I now think tensions will be merely in local communities, where they always were dealt with one way or another without much fuss. The centre can’t hold in either country enough for a civilized full scale pogrom, cleansing, and war although the potential is certainly there.
If anyone wants a more vivid B&W picture of how (only Eastern?) Europe will look like, I recommend Bela Tarr’s Satantango movie, a hard to watch, but IMHO very optimistic POV view; available in some of the more obscure places of the Internet, of course, for those so inclined.September 20, 2012 at 9:43 pm #5716John DayParticipant
I’m back ON-TOPIC since this is the French reanalysis of Monsanto’s raw data on GM corn from 12 years ago, which may have been seen early by hungary, before they booted Monsanto out.
Misinformed by “Science”,
There are a lot of pictures of deformed albino Sprague-Dawley lab rats popping up over the past 2-3 days. Those kinds of pictures are easy to come by.
What is really going on?
Monsanto had to fund scientific studies to “prove” that it’s GM corn/maize varieties were “safe” for human and animal consumption in OECD member countries.
So firstly, the intent of these studies is clear. The intent of these studies is to find no fault, no metabolic danger to living organisms.
Monsanto has done this dance before, and knows how to do it. It is general knowledge, anyway. It is a very common dance. Industry funds most of this research, and funds the researchers who provide the desired results most reliably. I’m not jaded. I’ve been involved in physiologic research studies on lab rats for years in college and med school. I’ve had long discussions with researchers, often about other researchers, and methodologies used, tossing out a couple of bad data points to get where you need to be, things like that. My critical reading of medical and physiological research has generally led me to conclude that 80-90% of published, peer-reviewed research is totally-biased-crap, meant to prove dome predetermined “fact”.
In order to justify conclusions, researchers are supposed to reveal all raw data and all statistical methods of analysis. This is Greek to most readers.
Let’s look at how Monsanto stacked this data in their own favor.
Yes, this is ALL Monsanto data we are discussing, and it is 12 years old, and it has been kept secret, pried out by Greenpeace lawsuits and such.
We only have Monsanto data to talk about here, but now, after more than a decade, the raw data and methods are available for review.
Toxic effects show up more over longer times, with more animals to look at, with higher doses of the toxins, and with more tests, to look at more specific types of acute and chronic change in physiology.
As Monsanto I want studies with shorter time frames, fewer animals fed my corn, animals fed lower doses of my corn (maybe give some of my corn to the control group, by not genetically analyzing their feed, so they are secretly more similar to the test groups), and I don’t want to do very many liver or kidney or sex hormone tests, and I don’t want to do them very often, and I want to end the whole study well before cancer has a chance to start, or “long-term-toxicity” can kick in.
Monsanto bought study protocols that really only had 10 rats in each group fed specific GM corn products. With 10 rats per group, you just can’t find anything but high frequency effects. They only fed a maximum of 33% GM corn to any group, and the lower dose was 11%. There were very large groups of hundreds of rats used as various sorts of controls, so the study looks better with hundreds of rats, but they were not the ones in the test-groups, so it is fluff. The lack of rigor in defining the diets of some “control group” rats left open the possibility to mix some of the study maize into their feed, while nobody was looking, and that was all the time. Nobody looked. there was no genetic analysis of the feed given to the most general control group.
This information never formally existed, but if I were a crooked researcher, I would have spiked the feed of the control groups at night with the same GM corn that I was giving the experimental groups. Monsanto knows how to get what they pay for, right?
The small groups of test-group rats at low feeding concentrations only got to participate for a maximum of 3 months, then Game Over. Long term toxic effects were specifically excluded from the short term study, but the conclusion was that the GM corn was safe in long term use for billions of humans and animals. “Science”.
Evidence of cancer was excluded by the very short term and by not looking for any cancer or tumor markers. Check!
Evidence of teratogenicity was excluded by strictly avoiding pregnancy and not even looking at any reproductive hormone levels.
The final firewall was the statistical techniques used.
How can you justify a safety conclusion on such a small dose, small cohort, short time study group, which you checked so few things on?
You just say it’s so, and hide all your records.
That worked until Monsanto lost the court cases. Monsanto just lied about the statistics.
If your design gives a 70% chance that you will fail to find major toxicity, and you don’t find it, then you just say you did a careful study, and it wasn’t there and the data is proprietary. Check!
What can the very limited raw data reveal about the few rats fed low concentrations of 3 GM corn varieties for 3 months, and tested as little as possible?
The 3 GM corn varieties are prefaced by NK, which is “Roundup Ready” and therefore contains traces of “roundup”, as well as 2 MO (Monsanto) prefaced varieties, containing the Bt toxin and a never-seen-before-in-the-living-world “novel Bt” toxin. These are pesticide toxins derived from Bacillis Thuringiensis, which makes them as part of it’s daily chores in the world.
The novel Bt is really something to look at closely, but not for Monsanto… Cows abort when eating Bt feed, we now know, but this study stays completely away from that whole realm. A lot of the suspicion rests on these inseparable pesticide contents of these GM corn varieties, but not all of the suspicion, because these are not necessarily the only “improvements”, just the obvious ones.
I will not give a blow-by-blow breakdown for each feed group, but there were sex differences and dose differences and time differences in pretty much all groups, despite efforts to ignore them by study design. There were liver and kidney effects all around, sometimes more for males, sometimes females. There were suggestions of reduced cardiac muscle mass, possibly overall muscle decrease (not looked at) in the Roundup Ready group, which could be due to eating a little Roundup. Some of the Bt rats showed some liver changes associated with diabetes, and gained weight, but liver enzyme studies which might show signs of liver inflammation were strictly avoided. there were kidney effects which raised the possibility of renal toxicity, and showed different grouped levels of toxins excreted by the kidneys. These feeds really seemed to have different effects on the kidneys, and on male and female kidneys, but tests for early kidney damage, such as protein leakage into the urine, were avoided.
Some of these groups definitely gained more weigh than others.
Sorry, beyond the scope of the study. Who cares?
Obviously, a proper statistical analysis of the expertly-constrained data reveals nothing reassuring about even short term effects of these GM corn varieties. It points to differences in metabolic effect from each variety, even with just a few rats to look at for a short time, and totally avoids looking at birth defects, intergenerational issues, different species, and even cancer and long-term toxicity.
Monsanto got what they paid for, even if they had to slide some extra loot under the table.
It is not enough to justify their GM corn existing in the world at all, let alone being fed to any other organism.
In America, you can’t legally find out if it is in your Fritos, tortillas or popcorn.
It’s illegal to tell you that.
It’s probably pretty hard for companies to even know that about the lots they buy.
Don’t ask, don’t tell…
Who is going to do the studies that need to be done, which would take over a decade to really do properly?
Will this stuff be taken off the market pending the proper studies, as actually required by regulators, but never done?
Here is the reanalysis of Monsanto’s raw data and techniques. It’s dense, but it isn’t bullshit.
Corn-FedSeptember 21, 2012 at 11:22 am #5726NassimParticipant
The Hungarians are in a rather special geographic situation. Pretty well all their neighbouring countries have Hungarian minorities and they don’t have that “problem” themselves.
The other thing is that Hungary was the superhighway for horse-powered invasions from the East – it always has been. The Hungarians are perhaps the last to do that and settle the land. Yes, our old friend Atilla the Hun was the culprit, and he nearly took over France and Italy.
In the same way that Genghis Khan is worshipped in Mongolia, Atilla is revered in Hungary. In fact, Atilla is quite a common name in Hungary.September 22, 2012 at 1:29 pm #5733
Ilargi – what a great article! The video was very well done too. Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine” all over again.
Get everybody excited, employed, feeling fat. They then buy a house (of course, mortgage is in Swiss Francs). Whoops, economy goes down, Hungarian currency depreciates against the Swiss Franc, and now the people can’t pay.
IMF swoops in, provides country with a loan, infrastructure is privatized…..we’ve all heard this before.
So Orban taxed these privatizers, and he will pay for it. I feel for him too, but what can he do? Our Western media is and will continue to portray him in the worst light possible.
John Day – thanks for the Monsanto post! Great read. These guys have got to be stopped.
There’s so much going on in the world these days, you can hardly keep up with it all. Where do you start? It’s overwhelming at times.September 23, 2012 at 6:47 am #5737
Great article on how Monsanto went into Iraq and India, how the farmers have suffered.
“The Canadian farmer argued that he had purchased no Monsanto canola seeds, had never planted Monsanto seeds, and was frankly horrified to find that the genetically modified crops had taken hold in his acreage. Perhaps, suggested Schmeiser, the plants in question were the product of a few rogue GM seeds blown from a truck passing by his land?
Monsanto was uninterested in Schmeiser’s theory on how the RoundupÂ® Ready plants got there. As far as the company was concerned, Schmeiser was in possession of an agricultural product whose intellectual property belonged to Monsanto. And it didn’t matter much how that came to pass.
Monsanto’s interpretation of the impact of seed contamination is, of course, a good one if its goal is to eventually own the rights to the world’s seed supply. And that goal may well be in sight. In fact, a 2004 study by the Union of Concerned Scientists found that much of the U.S. seed pool is already contaminated by GM seeds. If that contamination continues unabated, eventually much of the world’s seeds could labor under patents controlled by one agribusiness or another.”September 23, 2012 at 8:20 am #5738John DayParticipant
Thanks for the pat on the back and thanks for noticing that Monsanto is trying to own and pimp out all that is essential to life itself.
This is one of the highest levels of abomination ever reached, and if it goes any higher it will ultimately extinguish life, becoming the final “reductio ad absurdum”.September 23, 2012 at 9:58 am #5739
John Day – yes, between genetically modified foods, nuclear radiation (Fukushima), global warming, the central bankers who are crushing us with inflation, we are sitting ducks.September 24, 2012 at 11:48 pm #5762jthom88Member
A blog post of mine highlighting your article (and the one in regards to the IMF/Monsanto being kicked out of Hungary – if only temporarily, in the case of the IMF).
Read, comment, share and subscribe if you like it! Thanks!November 23, 2012 at 1:21 am #6468dushaMember
thanks for yr post ‘Misinformed by “Science”‘, any chance we could chat via email? Claire Robinson (of GMWatch and Earth Open Source), email claire AT gmwatch.orgNovember 23, 2012 at 2:45 am #6469NassimParticipant
I guess you are aware of it already. However, just in case, here is a link to what is happening in France:
Please use Google translator:
I am not sure if it made it into the English-language press
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