"If Only" They Had Listened


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    einhverfr post=2610 wrote: Ben: I guess what I am getting at is how you define industrial energy. I don’t think it is possible to draw bright lines there. But how do you define industrial energy?

    Edit: I could see an argument that the key metric is net energy *imports* but that isn’t what the individual I was replying to said, and coal mines where coal is used nationally wouldn’t be industrial energy by that definition.

    sorry, E, i thought your questions were rhetorical.

    i think the line between industrial energy and non-industrial energy is pretty bright.

    if the horse you mentioned, that’s pulling the plow, is being fed on commercial oats it’s an industrial horse because commercial food production is largely an oil-fueled, machine-based type of food production rather than based on pre-steam machinery and manual labor. this type of plowing is a relatively poor simulation of pre-industrial farming. if somehow the horse is not industrial but the plow is modern, it’s a better simulation and the type of thing we would see in a salvage economy.

    if the charcoal you mentioned, for your bbq, was made from scratch by manual labor then that process itself is not industrial. if the axe use to fell and chop the tree was made by pre-industrial forging, or it’s a flint axe, then the cooking of your bbq meal is the real deal – hyperreal, even, if one cares to go there.

    same goes for wind powered pumps. depends on the construction.

    where does it get fuzzy for you?


    Reverse Engineer post=2618 wrote:

    I’ll see if I can dig up the stuff on Reverse Engineering for republication in the Diner.


    OK, I found the material on this stuff, mostly written in January of this year just before we openned the Diner for Bizness. Thing is, it is dstributed out through many posts not only of mine, but of the other Founders of DD as well. To make a single coherent article out of it will take some time. The Yahoo board set-up is very messy for collecting up your old posting unfortunately.

    I’ll work on the project over the weekend probably.



    Reverse Engineer post=2618 wrote: [quote=TheTrivium4TW post=2614][quote=Reverse Engineer post=2599][quote=TheTrivium4TW post=2592]It just dawned on me today that the Great Depression was, in actuality, an engineered holocaust of the American people engineered by the financiers to asset strip society and transfer real wealth to their interests.

    7 million Americans were murdered as a a direct consequence of Debt Dollar Tyranny.

    Its as though Hitler’s only crime was in being too direct and not marketing his criminal activity.

    The Great Depression was entirely a debt dollar phenomenon.

    Labor was cheap, resources were cheap, yet 7 million died because there wasn’t enough debt dollars.

    This just dawned on you TODAY?

    You must have missed reading “Calculus of Starvation” over on the Diner.



    Hi RE,

    Interesting article. I have to agree – we don’t know how many people died as a direct result of the Great Depression – so the 7 million I presented has a HUGE potential variance.

    However, your article didn’t go anywhere near the premeditated genocide perpetrated by international financiers wielding weapons of mass debt as though they were “gas chambers.”

    We all kind of knew it… but actually zeroing in that REALITY and focusing in on it… WOW! **

    That article is the Tip of the Iceberg Triv. Over on Reverse Engineering, I worked up a pretty good theory and justification for the idea that the Native Population of the FSoA was purposefully eradicated by the Illuminati via Disease Vectors PRIOR to the “discovery” of the New World by Columbus in 1492, during the period from around 1000 AD to 1450 AD after the Vikings originally “discovered” the “Skralings” inhabiting the N&S American continents.

    Various estimates put the Native Population at around 30-50M up to around 1400 or so, but by the time the Brits were colonizing in the 1600s, the total population fo Natives was down to perhaps 3-5M, roughly a 90% knockdown of the population PRIOR to colonization. When migrating colonists hit the Missouri Valley in the late 1600s, it was already like a “Ghost Town”. There was clear evidence of Farms and a population that simply disappeared before they ever got there.

    All this occurred LONG before Debt-Dollar Tyranny Triv. This is just the latest manifestation of a very long running game here.

    I’ll see if I can dig up the stuff on Reverse Engineering for republication in the Diner.


    Hi RE, I look forward to hearing other people’s analysis on this – thanks for doing the legwork. Hopefully, others will find value in the paradigm shift. So many people desperately want to think these are all “mistakes” by ignorant “academics.” If only…

    It is a Straw Man to imply or claim I lay all society’s throughout history on Debt Dollar Tyranny (I’ve noticed this theme of yours more than once) simply because I don’t.

    However, it is their strongest method of control and manipulation as of right now.

    I’m in the fight right now, hence, I’m focusing on right now.

    If we can take “the money power” from these people, return it to the people to whom it belongs (the process to do this has to be determined), throw these criminals in jail, wipe out their fraudulent debts, asset strip their wealth (including their multi-national corporate fronts), return each nation’s oil to its rightful owners (that’s the people of the nation) and teach people how to live properly and sustainably (none of which is a “money power” incentive), we’d be waaaaaaay ahead of the game.

    Perfect, no way. The ultimate root cause to everything is that people inherently can’t seem to care about others equal to themselves.

    In short, we are selfish (and selfishly justify being so) and that eventually leads to bad outcomes.



    How did you derive your 7 million number?

    I ask because the only other number I’ve ever seen was 20 million, in a paper by an extreme Russian nationalist. The thesis of the paper was: “We all know that the holodomor didn’t happen, but even if it did, look, see, things were even worse in the US.” He then proceeded to claim that a greatest upper bound, ie “cannot possibly be bigger under any circumstances” was an accurate estimate.

    Anyway, making SWAGs at the factors he deliberately neglected, 7 million sounds plausible.


    The Greeks have spoken …. They have been listening ….

    exactly as the bloggers have been urging.

    “Let the bankers eat their bad investments and go to hell.”

    There is no more blood to be had from the people of Greece.


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