The IMF -Inadvertently- Condemns The Eurozone

 

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  • #5912

    Professorlocknload
    Participant

    @Trivium,
    “The Money Power LOVES gold backed money because they control the gold and, by extension, the economy! “

    And there it is! They must be on to something. Central monetary authority, judging by the price, is probably collecting all the AU/Ag it can at this juncture, at what it considers a discount, knowing what it has put into, and plans to put into, the monetary pipeline. Lick ’em or join ’em, but at least live to fight another day.

    Rockefeller= Mises? In my view, quite the contrary. I have to ask, when did Rockefeller or any of the rest of “Robber Barronry” ever support free market capitalism, a system yet to be allowed to be tried here? Markets instead are held in tightly regulated protectionist straight jackets by their ilk, using captive government as lever.

    Corporatism is what we have here, fascism with a happy face, not capitalism. And Socialism and Fascism always eventually lead to tyranny and human suffering, as they end up cannibalizing themselves after bleeding their “charges” anemic. Then, relying on the few real capitalists in the alternative market to feed them, until such time as they can seize the reins again, yada.

    Aside, to clarify, my view of “conspiracies” in this light, is not a smoke filled back room full of “Bilderbergers.” My view of the evolution of power brokerage is more one of myriad vying factions constantly attempting seizure of too powerful state apparatus’ with which to forcefully advance their varied agendas. Their victim is always individualism and liberty, exactly those things vital to the unfettered free market philosophy von Mises promoted. Human Action, as free association. Kinda like a giant review network where stars are replaced by patronage dollars, as a score of value received for value tendered…voluntarily. A central planners worse nightmare.

    All the arguments are here. https://mises.org/ And as with any open minded forum, there is no consensus or absolute agreement here, other than freedom and liberty are most conducive to human contentment and well being, both economically and socially.

    Response to other suggestions to be continued. Still recovering from the $4.97 gal gas I put in the scooter. Damn, $8.75 to fill the tank. Can’t wait ’till the station starts taking pre 65’s again. Wonder if I can still fill it up for less than $0.40 (real) in 5 years?

    https://www.blog.providentmetals.com/protecting-your-wealth/oregon-gas-station-accepting-90-junk-silver-as-payment.htm

    #5913

    davefairtex
    Participant

    John –

    I’m looking more at what will be globally accepted after debt based fiat currencies are retired, as I think they must be in a shrinking-resource-constrained world. No more exponential growth economic model…
    I don’t see gold as a short-term holding for profit, but more as a strategic asset for individuals, and the basis for international trade deals across the ages.
    I think it will be that again, in a powered-down world, but that is a view to the indefinite future, after the dollar hegemony ends.

    I can definitely imagine the world you describe, and the question of what sort of currency will function properly for flat-to-shrinking resources & populations is a really good one. It simply can’t be debt-based money.

    Certainly as a basis for international trade deals in such a world, gold makes sense and has a lot of historical momentum behind it. And if it has international trade utility that means it will definitely retain value. I’d say: argument nicely put. I’m not convinced it is our only possible future – but it feels to me like it has a decent chance of occurring.

    My next question you already anticipated – it is one of timeframe. As you say, the “indefinite future” might be a while from now, possibly even decades. The end of dollar hegemony probably also implies the end of US military hegemony as well. Hard for me to imagine today – but we did see the Soviet Union collapse extremely rapidly back in 1989, so its not without precedent, and it might happen more rapidly than one might expect.

    #5914

    p01
    Participant

    Regarding Socialism and the beloved elusive Capitalism

    Both these unicorns have been summoned by the (opposing) Churches of the Industrial Civilization. BOTH invocations have failed to produce the requested flavour of unicorns, or any unicorns for that matter. The excuse of BOTH Opposing Churches has been that the invocations were misspelled, not that the unicorns do not exist. Unicorns must exist, say the high priests; we must believe in magic, keep trying to invoke them, maybe something shows up. And something will indeed show up, just watch this horror movie to the end.

    #5915

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    John Day post=5605 wrote: @The Trivium4TW
    Thanks for the reply.
    (I spent a half hour getting this picture into my “avatar” file. It’s not “copyrighted” so I’ll keep it on the desktop. I used to be a neighbor of this statue.)
    The hard times I’m envisioning include loss of faith in fiat currency, 98% of which is now electronic, as I understand.

    Hi John, I agree with you, but I think there is a subtlety that people miss. Losing confidence in a currency is the same as losing confidence in the debt that currency must be used to pay down.

    The debtors, and more people owe US Debt Money Tyranny Notes (USDMTNs) than any other kind of debt, can’t afford to lose confidence in the currency unless they lose their home, their car, their business, their farm… you get the idea. The $53 trillion in American debt must be PAID with those dollars.

    Now, that doesn’t mean that foreigner creditors won’t stop accepting dollars… they probably will.

    I think that’s why Ilargi says to get your permaculture equipment NOW and that you will regret it dearly if you wait until it is too late. That applies to anything you may need – get while the getting is good.

    But debtors **need** those dollars or they lose their collateral.

    Remember, “losing confidence in the currency” is equivalent to “losing confidence in the debtors’ debt load.” The latter is required context that the “losing confidence in the currency” crowd never address – even when asked directly to do so.

    John Day post=5605 wrote: I’ve been considering the virtues of buying a couple thousand dollars worth of nickels, as an example. These could serve as a local currency at some time in a small area. It’s just a thought. The “paper dollars” will be devalued a lot in an upcoming phase, but nickels are already worth more than 5c.
    They’ll be going away soon…

    It might sound crazy, but I think dental floss will be a big winner. In fact, I think that a 1 to 1 trade for a silver ounce is probably a gimme at some point. Then again, you might not want to part with the dental floss. 😉

    The devaluation will come, but only when it serves the interests of the Money Power. It doesn’t serve their interests while they own trillions in debt and control trillions in cash via their multi-national and mega-corporation fronts. Nor does it make sense for JP Morgan to offer 3.4%, 30 year fixed loans just ahead of this assumed hyperinflation.

    Remember, the government is not sovereign, the money power is sovereign. The people/governments aren’t TBTF, the corporate fronts of the Money Power are.

    As for the rest of your post, the ancient Chinese curse applies – we live in interesting times.

    One key reason is that society is blinded to the evil of its own government.

    Was Hitler only wrong for invading other countries because he didn’t develop a “responsibility to protect” the Germans in those countries first? The psychopaths in control are using al Qaeda, right out in the open, to overthrow sovereign governments who posed no external threat to other nations… that’s an international war crime for those who both can and are willing to think critically.

    Then again, most don’t that those who financed Hitler and promoted eugenics are in control of “Western hegemony” right now.

    And most don’t want to know it.

    #5916

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Professorlocknload post=5610 wrote: @Trivium,
    “The Money Power LOVES gold backed money because they control the gold and, by extension, the economy! “

    And there it is! They must be on to something.

    Yes, asset stripping people like you and I and those we care about.

    BTW, buy all the gold you want – just don’t promote it as the nation’s money supply. “It is not what backs the money, it is WHO controls its quantity!” ~Bill Still

    Professorlocknload post=5610 wrote: Central monetary authority, judging by the price, is probably collecting all the AU/Ag it can at this juncture, at what it considers a discount, knowing what it has put into, and plans to put into, the monetary pipeline. Lick ’em or join ’em, but at least live to fight another day.

    Don’t focus on the chess piece, focus on the chess player. The central banks are tools – the player is the Money Power that controls them.

    Central banks were selling when the time was to buy… to private insiders friendly to the Money Power. Now they buy back from them. Only to sell back to them… all the while ripping off the face of the country that is forced to go into debt to buy high and sell low to the Money Power cartel. That’s the way it looks to me.

    Note that when the insiders were buying, NOBODY was talking about it. NOW, however, the insiders are bragging about buying gold… the perfect time to ride the wave and sell before the collapse begins in earnest… with the central bank pieces holding the bag and tax payer money on the hook.

    It’s elementary.

    Professorlocknload post=5610 wrote:
    Rockefeller= Mises? In my view, quite the contrary. I have to ask, when did Rockefeller or any of the rest of “Robber Barronry” ever support free market capitalism, a system yet to be allowed to be tried here? Markets instead are held in tightly regulated protectionist straight jackets by their ilk, using captive government as lever.

    WHO brought Mises to America and paid his bills. That would be the Rockefeller Foundation.

    “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it.”
    ~Vladimir Lenini

    First off, JP Morgan loved the way he could manipulate gold to rob society blind… and Mises didn’t seem to get that point (or maybe he did, Machiavelli and all), so Mises essentially shilled for the “opposition” to the current system that isn’t really opposition.

    SR 68 The Gold Solution is a Lie – Bill Still

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlqwJ00LMU&list=UUhZRoC9bMegevAxFmee1oSA&index=1&feature=plcp

    WHO was Alan Greenspan’s idol during the bubble? Ayn Rand.

    Professorlocknload post=5610 wrote:
    Corporatism is what we have here, fascism with a happy face, not capitalism. And Socialism and Fascism always eventually lead to tyranny and human suffering, as they end up cannibalizing themselves after bleeding their “charges” anemic. Then, relying on the few real capitalists in the alternative market to feed them, until such time as they can seize the reins again, yada.

    Yes, a Money Power fascist, eugenics based plutocracy.

    I’m not as negative nor “black and white” on libertarianism as is Max, but I am wholly against keeping the criminal banksters in control of the money supply why simply changing the definition of money.

    “It is not what backs the money, it is WHO controls its quantity!” ~Bill Still

    #5917

    Professorlocknload
    Participant
    #5918

    Professorlocknload
    Participant

    @ Trivium, Again, it’s all here. https://mises.org/

    Personally, I don’t take the political doctrine at face value, I go to the sources.

    As for money, well, I’ll go with what has worked these past 6000 years.

    On who might “control” the gold, African individuals were mining it from rivers toward the end of the Zimbabwe currency debacle, as are people now, throughout the planet. n these environs where I reside, there are many small operators. Even Newmont has the option of selling it where ever.

    In my view, honest money knows no master. Federal Reserve notes, on the other hand are very easily manipulated, as they are wholly owned by authority. Only thing I could imagine as worse would be Con-gress controlled mass producible notes. Political money vs. hard money. It being a matter of choice, we may choose our poison.

    Now, in the old days, governments had no money. It all belonged to the people, in the form of gold and silver. Legally, it still does, but first the Rule of Law would need to be restored to enforce any of that. We’ve most likely gone too far astray for that to be done, without blood shed, so, it’s every man for himself, with my goal as preventing myself being a burden on my family and society.

    “You have to choose between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the government. And, with due respect to these gentlemen, I advise you to vote for gold.” George Bernard Shaw

    #5919

    John Day
    Participant

    @thetrivium4tw
    Thanks for the detailed reply.
    There are always things to consider when currencies fail, and they can fail in stages.
    So the dollar may fail as global reserve currency, yet mortgages still need to be paid in dollars. that would be a point of significant loss of faith in the dollar, but not total loss of utility, just greatly reduced utility, and reduced value.
    This would likely entail collapse of the current global financial system, which would entail a global loss of faith in the debts denominated in dollar-exchangable currencies. We see more and more of this in Europe. We also see that there was something like a $1.6 trillion flux of secret money from the Fed to European banking, during the acute phase of the 2008-2009 crisis.
    There is so much complexity, and there have been so many times in history when communities found themselves temporarily without any functioning currency, not just a crummy one, but none.
    One has to be very careful, as I see you are, in considering future scenarios. So many “preppers” just consider one scenario, and don’t seem to think it all the way through.
    As for me, I already bought an off-grid solar set-up with the tax returns this year, including nickel-iron batteries, which last forever with routine maintenance. I’m moving to where it makes sense.
    I agree that one must consider the full implications of various likely scenarios and prepare as much as possible, before it becomes impossible.

    #5921

    Professorlocknload
    Participant

    Bill Still says “
    “It is not what backs the money, it is WHO controls its quantity!” ~Bill Still

    I wonder how many tons of oil and gold these controllers can print? How many freight cars of food can they print? Tools? Building materials? Mechanical skills?

    And, already armed with some knowledge of how many tics of FRN’s can be mass produced in very short order, electronically or physically, I’m skeptical the gurus of fiat will use prudent judgement in their mad panic to save themselves.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-08/qeternity-explained-definitive-infographic

    #5922

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Professorlocknload post=5616 wrote: As for money, well, I’ll go with what has worked these past 6000 years.

    But it didn’t work to benefit the common the person, just the elite banksters – same as it ever was.

    Seriously – that’s the history. There were quite a few bubble and bust cycles under the gold standard. The bubble / bust cycles are used to asset strip the citizenry.

    What led Thomas Edison to pen the following?

    “Gold and money are separate things, you see. Gold is the trick mechanism by which you can control money.” — Thomas Edison, New York Times, December 6, 1921

    “It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30,000,000 in bonds and not $30,000,000 in currency. Both are promises to pay; but one promise fattens the usurer, and the other helps the people. If the currency issued by the Government were no good, then the bonds issued would be no good either. It is a terrible situation when the Government, to increase the national wealth, must go into debt and submit to ruinous interest charges at the hands of men who control the fictitious values of gold.” — Thomas Edison

    https://libertyrevival.wordpress.com/documents/quotations/

    Why was the Cross of Gold speech delivered to the people?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydrq2-j92cU

    Bryan’s “Cross of Gold” Speech: Mesmerizing the Masses

    https://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5354/

    Can you point me to where Mises exposes Debt Money Tyranny (v. 6.1) for the criminal fraud that it is?…

    https://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?da=y

    The one serious error a lot of Mises followers make is the idea that the people in control are dumb or ignorant academics.

    Uh, now. They are Sun Tzu, Art of War tacticians out to destroy us.

    “Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.”
    ― Sun Tzu

    The Money Power controls the mega-corporations and government. The idea of empowering either government or mega-corporations is a false dichotomy – you need to end Debt Money Tyranny first.

    Where did Mises make this clear? Or did he provide the necessary cover of the Trojan Horse while the Rockefellers were provided with sufficient control of the opposition?

    #5923

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    John Day post=5617 wrote: @thetrivium4tw
    Thanks for the detailed reply.
    There are always things to consider when currencies fail, and they can fail in stages.
    So the dollar may fail as global reserve currency, yet mortgages still need to be paid in dollars. that would be a point of significant loss of faith in the dollar, but not total loss of utility, just greatly reduced utility, and reduced value.
    This would likely entail collapse of the current global financial system, which would entail a global loss of faith in the debts denominated in dollar-exchangable currencies. We see more and more of this in Europe. We also see that there was something like a $1.6 trillion flux of secret money from the Fed to European banking, during the acute phase of the 2008-2009 crisis.
    There is so much complexity, and there have been so many times in history when communities found themselves temporarily without any functioning currency, not just a crummy one, but none.
    One has to be very careful, as I see you are, in considering future scenarios. So many “preppers” just consider one scenario, and don’t seem to think it all the way through.
    As for me, I already bought an off-grid solar set-up with the tax returns this year, including nickel-iron batteries, which last forever with routine maintenance. I’m moving to where it makes sense.
    I agree that one must consider the full implications of various likely scenarios and prepare as much as possible, before it becomes impossible.

    Hi John, if a person only gets one take-away from TAE, I think it is to get control of the necessities of life.

    That one action will prepare you for whatever future arrives… except a war mongering , police state, criminal fascist takeover which could well be in the cards for us.

    Then again, nothing prepares for that very well.

    For those that love gold, buy all you want after you can control your food water, energy, transportation and get established in a good, self reliant community.

    But make no mistake, we need to end Debt Money Tyranny once and for all.

    Debt Money Tyranny v. 6.1

    https://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?da=y

    The different variants of this have been downloaded over 3,000 times and I’ve probably received 2 comments that ever discussed its contents. Maybe just 1.

    I’d love to understand the psychology that acts as an “off” button in the mind when it comes to being face to face with this information in such an easy to understand format. What I really miss is feedback – I’d like to improve it and make it easier to visualize and understand.

    #5924

    Viscount St. Albans
    Participant

    Mortgage Principal Relief comes to Ireland…..

    Government proposes easing bankruptcy penalties too…..

    ——————–
    https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/ireland-mortgage-bill-aims-to-aid-owners-and-jump-start-economy/

    Money Quotes:
    The Irish government expects to pass a law this year that could encourage banks to substantially cut the amount that borrowers owe on their mortgages……..
    Under the new rules, it will be less onerous to declare bankruptcy, making it easier for people to walk away from their homes altogether.

    #5926

    davefairtex
    Participant

    Trivium –

    The concept behind your diagram was pretty well explained by a video I saw called Money as Debt. I had to watch it twice to completely get it. Debt being unpayable by design, interest rates controlling expansion and contraction, fractional reserve lending (and no-reserve lending, like we have now), creation of money, and so on.

    I think the presentation of this material needs to be dynamic, not static. Additionally, there’s too much assumed knowledge in your diagram; basically I think when people learn, they can only absorb one new concept at a time.

    And the vast majority of people think they already know how things work, and they’re wrong, and its a hard thing (and it takes repeated presentations from different angles) to get that worldview to change.

    In other words, you likely can’t compress the effect of a 1-hour video into a one page diagram, no matter how often you revise it!

    Simply getting people to see that a bank charter allows a bank to create money from thin air upon the act of someone signing a loan document – people just tune it out because they don’t believe it can be true. “That can’t possibly be happening.”

    Here’s an exercise for you. List the new concepts you are trying to get across in that diagram. Then imagine a person has to have the new concept explained in a clear and explicit way, with a set of expected questions answered. My guess is you’d come up with at least 5 new concepts you are presenting, that would likely require 5 diagrams. Or maybe one diagram, with a zoom-in of each subsection with an explanation. Like a comic book.

    Think political cartoons. The old-style cartoons had a million people talking. Then, the first guy to come up with a cartoon with one, laser-like point, changed the whole paradigm. Everyone got it. Now nobody does the old cartoons, simply because people don’t get them.

    The language class I’m currently taking is a case in point. When I learn a new word, it is really useful to hear that new word used in a sentence – hopefully more than one sentence to really hammer it in. But if you try and speed things up by having 2 new words in one sentence, more often than not I get confused and things take longer overall and they work less well. And at 3 new words, my brain shuts off and simply refuses to work!

    One new concept per diagram.

    #5927

    p01
    Participant

    If you want to build pyramids, you need slaves. Debt has enabled the slaves to live at a later time than the builders and the pharaohs. In the case of voluntary pyramid building by comrades full of life and revolutionary spirit, the buck stopped when the money and revolutionary spirit ended (pretty soon).
    That’s basically it in a nutshell, and without fancy animations.

    Karl Marx recognized that workers without a choice are workers in chains. But his idea of breaking chains was for us to depose the pharaohs and then build the pyramids for ourselves, as if building pyramids is something we just can’t stop doing, we love it so much.

    –Daniel Quinn

    #5928

    John Day
    Participant

    @thetrivium4tw
    I have a pretty holographic conceptual model of the Monetary Debt Tyranny paradigm, and the chart was still just awkward for me, so I think it is like a shorthand, for those that already read shorthand.
    The historical quotes were more accessible.
    This is really a complex and arcane concept, which makes it sort of mysterious. It IS a “daring daylight robbery” and it was approached through centuries of slowly building cultural paradigms, like goldsmiths holding gold for others, then lending it with fractional reserves, then with paper certificates for the gold holdings, then removing the gold and silver when everyone was used to the paper, then going electronic with credit cards, debit cards, PayPal, HFT…
    The “Chicago Plan of the 1930s” which Lindberg and Ford backed was like the “greenbacks” of Lincoln, and the JFK attempt, which ended with his death. There is good data on that.
    Ultimately, complex systems collapse to the highest point of complexity, at which they are inherently stable.
    It’s a long way down from here…

    #5932

    SteveB
    Participant

    Triv, it’s overwhelming. And to what end? Why slog through it in order to (just maybe) understand it?

    #5940

    jonabark
    Participant

    Why is there no new discussion of Berkshire Hathaway and others massively dumping US stocks?

    #5942

    Glennda
    Participant

    I googled the question about Buffet and others of the 0.1% selling bank and consumer stocks, and found this:

    https://www.moneynews.com/Outbrain/billionaires-dump-economist-stock/2012/08/29/id/450265?PROMO_CODE=FE8A-1

    “Despite the 6.5% stock market rally over the last three months, a handful of billionaires are quietly dumping their American stocks . . . and fast.

    Warren Buffett, who has been a cheerleader for U.S. stocks for quite some time, is dumping shares at an alarming rate. He recently complained of “disappointing performance” in dyed-in-the-wool American companies like Johnson & Johnson, Procter & Gamble, and Kraft Foods.”

    No surprise that the Stock market is in a huge Bubble. So if the the biggest rats jump ship before the small ones, it’s no surprise to me or likely to any of the commentariate here.

    Near the end of the article is this:

    “Editor’s Note: For a limited time, Newsmax is showing the Wiedemer interview and supplying viewers with copies of the new, updated Aftershock book including the final, unpublished chapter. Go here to view it now.”

    This part of the article turns it into an infomercial. Guess his book wasn’t doing very well otherwise.

    #5964

    Jack
    Member

    The scenario is changing by the second.

    Bill Still says
    As gold money will crawl its way into congress futures will sky rocket

    Than fall when they see that there is no gold at Fort knocks

    Are those Rich people controlling these politicians that stupid and greedy.

    We know that they are greedy but nobody is that stupid.
    They will confiscate peoples gold.

    I was saying that things will be like this and like that.

    Nobody in America cares what happens to their future.
    At least that’s how it is for now.

    My friends what happens in the future will depend on the decisions made by the rich.

    Everyone was saying that there would not be QE3
    Now we have QE to infinity.

    It will not surprise be if gold goes sky high.

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