Debt Rattle December 28 2023


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    “I might add, you’ve been generally saying things like “it’s happening now!” and citing 420ppm as already causing catastrophe…”

    Yes, I will formally assert that 420ppm is already causing catastrophe. Collapse of plankton levels, dramatic (95%+) declines in seabird populations in the north Atlantic with similar dieoffs in the north Pacific, collapse of shellfish species on the Oregon coast…. I can keep going if you like.

    If you don’t value these things, or consider them to be a catastrophe, well… you and I value very different things.

    At the current rate of CO2 rise, (about 3ppm annually, but accelerating), 1000ppm is not so far off. Throw in some positive feedback loops which have already been triggered (seafloor clathrates probably being the biggest) and it’s quite conceivable that it could be reached within a century.



    Thanks you your comment. I didn’t put the charts up to indicate anything about CO2, it was to point out that lying with statistic and charts is used everywhere to influence Sheeple who’s basic knowledge of about anything other than the Kardashians bust measurements approaches Zero.

    “Lies, damned lies, and statistics”

    The phrase was popularized in the United States by Mark Twain

    Duh’mericans are not interested in anything beyond their border.

    If fact, they don’t even seem to be interested in their Border now.

    Maybe just their ‘hood’ is about the extent of their tiny little squirrel like attention spans

    Hell, Duh’mericans aren’t even aware of the condition of their banking system



    Banks’ unrealized losses grew in the third quarter


    More than HALF of Duh’mericans are living paycheck to paycheck and can’t handle a $400 emergency, the luckier ones are maxing out the last of their credit cards.

    CO2 levels are not on the ‘concern spectrum’

    It’s like asking a homeless guy about his ‘investment portfolio’


    Besides the younger generation can’t pay off their student loans working as baristas much less get married and have kids and buy houses.

    There is no future for Duh’merica.

    Its a dried up husk blowing in the wind without a new generation of children in the pipeline.


    EXTRA a global polycrisis ending 2050 for lack of energy.
    What’s Behind the Green Door?
    spiraling unrest
    military interventions,
    large-scale refugee flows
    the debt-beleaguered
    newly food-insecure
    lost of control of the narrative


    “Beyond the pale” is an interesting expression.

    The Saxons would have an actual pole – The Pale – at the edge of their land. Usually had a bell or horn tied to it. Visitors who were friendly would stop at The Pale, blow the horn, and wait to be welcomed in.

    If strangers showed up who would not do this, it was obvious they were hostile invaders. They were not following the custom, proving who they were. A matter of life or death, the survival or non survival of your people.

    So having gone beyond the pale, being shown to consistently NOT discuss in earnest honesty, to NOT argue with forthcoming honesty – over and over – intrinsically uncivil all while demanding civil treatment for yourself, what do you end up doing?

    A reconfession of faith and claiming of moral superiority. Nevermind the science after all

    Okay, so if we say that catastrophe is happening now because of human generated CO2 levels now AND that we’re headed for an increase to 238% in the near future….

    With massive, massive catastrophe at stake, and with YOU believing and ME not believing, what’s off the table? YOU want to Save The Planet and people who disbelieve stand in your way.

    When you are so sure what is at stake and that you are right, cooperation of all humanity would be necessary to avert greater catastrophe, yes? There’s no need to ponder, it’s already happening.

    How will you ensure cooperation when people don’t believe you? (if not you, then someone who can ensure cooperation who believes what you do)

    What’s off the table, since the catastrophe is, as you say, already happening? Surely with the catastrophe underway, we should try anything that might work?

    How do the people who don’t believe your ideas, don’t agree with you, don’t want any of your measures get rid of you? (or someone like you but with sufficient power) They don’t and never should? The most righteous thing for someone like you to do is to take measures that require no consent or agreement, yes?

    And the degree of catastrophe requires rather massive measures, naturally.

    And you worry others should be civil to you.


    @Oroboros — I certainly can’t argue with Twain’s “lies, damned lies, and statistics”… So I’ll give you a little background. I worked at a lab devoted to climate change (in the early 90s), and also had a good friend getting his PhD in atmospheric science at the time. So while I’m not an atmospheric scientist myself, I’ve worked with people who know their stuff, had no reason to lie to me, and gave me no reason to doubt their character or motivations. These were all people that I trust.

    Is it possible that they were all unknowingly part of a cult, in the same way that doctors in the past had all convinced each other that bleeding patients to get rid of sickness was a great idea? Perhaps… but I see no evidence to support it.

    I’ve seen the measurements, participated in paleoecology (using things like pollen to get an idea of past species compositions), studied the carbon cycle as well as the chemistry of plant growth. I’ve taken multiple courses on soils and their chemistry, and think I have a pretty good idea of what goes on beneath our feet, with an understanding of how important it is.

    I’ve also paid careful attention to what’s happening in the natural world where I’ve spent every minute I’m able to (as a professional forester, later farmer, mountaineer, hunter, skier, sailor, etc). What I’ve witnessed — already happening — terrifies me. The “statistics” I’ve seen were not “damned lies”, because many of them I’ve measured myself.

    So it’s largely motivated by these concerns that I took it upon myself to make an example that I hoped others might follow — the best one I could come up with. I gave up the convenience of gas heat and industrially produced food. Taught myself to farm with horses, and also to drive one on paved roads like the amish do where I now live. Put up my own hay start -to-finish with the horses, sans fossil fuels. Set my farm up almost entirely in carbon sequestering pasture/hay, and refused the use of nitrate fertilizer.

    In the first few years, I had lots of people contact me out of the blue to come and help or learn more about what I was doing. That tapered off though, and the WEF’s embrace of climate change has (understandably) poisoned the subject in people’s minds — thus achieving the industrialist’s goal of destroying political support for future actions that might have otherwise curtailed their profits. They’re brilliant psychopaths, aren’t they?

    Oh — and @jb-hb. Your assumption about my disdain for ruminants (buffalo, in your example) is a false one. Yeah, I know the “greenies” are all up in arms about cow farts (cows don’t actually fart much at all — they *burp* their methane — ask me how I know….). The fact of the matter though is that these people are not using their brains, and thus are not distinguishing between actual inflow and mere circulation.

    Any carbon burped up by a buffalo, cow, or breathed out by a human for that matter is *circulation*, not an input. The carbon was most likely absorbed by a plant within the 12 months before it was burped back out. Big difference between that and digging up massive carbon stores that last saw the light of day during the Paleozoic era.

    In all honesty, I gave up hope for a positive outcome about 5 years ago, as the industrialist’s propaganda campaign really started to take hold. That’s probably a significant factor in the colon cancer I was diagnosed with last year. But… I do hold out some hope that I’m wrong, and that I’ve missed some critical bit of information. That’s one of the reasons I occasionally engage the smart people on TAE, which I’ve been reading since ’07 (or maybe ’08?)


    Jimmy Dore.

    John Day

    @davidveale: Thank you for maintaining decorum. I’m sorry about the colon cancer.
    Thank you for endeavoring to live by principle.


    The problem with the global warming false narrative is that it is all about trying to exercise power and control over the little people. The little people can see that none of this stops our masters from jetting around the earth in their private jets to tell us little people we must comply but they don’t have to. We can see the corruption!

    It is interesting how those pushing the global warming narrative always ignore what the rocks tell us because it doesn’t support the narrative. The rocks tell us that the earth has warmed and cooled millions of times in the earth’s history. Millions! So those pushing the corrupt global warming narrative want us to believe that this time is different? Yeah, the only thing that is different, is the level of corruption!

    Anybody who is studying the global warming scam in a university is just wasting their time here on earth!

    The false global warming narrative has been set up in the universities to allow those pushing the global warming scam to be able to control who gets hired and who gets funding. It is all about power and control. So if you want to exist in a university environment, you have no choice but study global warming. You do not have the option of studying that there is no global warming and it is a scam!

    So don’t be surprised that when you step outside of your university bubble where no one is allowed to question the global warming narrative, that us stupid folks living in the real world just laugh at you! We know the set up is false!

    I will also point out that by pushing this false global warming narrative, attention has been shifted away from dealing with pollution. Who benefits from ignoring pollution? Yeah, the same folks pushing the false global warming narrative! They just moved ther pollution out of sight to China!

    That the global warming narrative is false is just an inconvenient truth!
    If you are wearing global warming clothes, then you are naked!


    Israel is not the state of the Jews.

    Jews stand with the Palestinian people.

    I guess this is another sick joke; the Jews want us to believe this bollocks after 70 years of Jew persecution of the Palestinians and the current Jew genocide of the Palestinians? The Holocaust was a sick lie, but this one takes the biscuit.


    Now everyone needs to know that Zionists are not Jews and Israel does not speak on behalf of the Jews.

    Statements like this just do not ring true in reality because I have yet to meet a Jew who is not an Israel supporter, and I am getting pretty old these days. Now that the Jew genocide of the Palestinians is happening, the Jews that used to support Israel are claiming they now do not support Israel, but I do not believe them, they are lying to me, probably trying to reduce the inevitable backlash that they will feel over the coming years.

    The people genociding the Palestinians are Jews, they are the Israel Defence Force which is manned by Jewish national service murderers and Jewish professional murderers. They are all Jews and they are being protected and supported by the Jews in America.


    Other messages called for the justices to be dragged from their homes, hanged and shot, said the SITE Intelligence Group.

    SITE Intelligence Group is an American for-profit consultancy group[1] that tracks online activity of white supremacist and jihadist organizations. It is led by the Israeli analyst Rita Katz[2][1] and based in Bethesda, Maryland.[3] From 2002 to 2008 Katz headed an organization called the SITE Institute.

    The USA has a Jew problem.


    The founder of the group behind the lawsuit removing President Trump from the Colorado Ballot reveals their largest donor is George Soros.

    Did I mention that the USA has a Jew problem?


    Kiev is plotting to carry out a false flag operation involving the use of Western-made toxic substances in order to accuse Russia of alleged use of chemical weapons, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told a briefing.

    Is the above linked to this …

    Zelensky and Soros teaming up to use Ukraine as a toxic waste dump.

    Ukraine has a Jew problem.


    We’ve seen the Nazi camps of Israel. How does this happen? They used to speak ill about Hitler, but how are you any different than Hitler?” Erdogan stated. They are going to make us miss Hitler. Is what this Netanyahu is doing any less than what Hitler did? It is not.

    The difference is that this time the Jews who are enjoying killing Gazans will not face any war crimes punishment; “I was just following orders” is now legit if you are Jewish and killing Palestinians. This is how we are sold the goodness of the IDF Jews whilst we similutanoeusly watching the same Jews murdering their captives.

    Alexander Carpenter

    Some of the major davidveale errors (are you sure you want this?):

    Strategic confirmation bias, gathering factoids and cramming them into a fixed prior fright-wig belief-structure without looking at the overall situation with an open mind.

    Tactical failure to distinguish between absolute change and relative change. Going from 1 ppm to 2 ppm is a 100% relative change, while it is just a 0.0001% absolute change. This one is really dumb, or really corrupt, as it generates bigger, more fear-mongerable numbers.

    Not using his own brains, and the usual self-righteous despairing sanctimony.

    Failure to identify the real “causes” of biosphere degradation: industrial toxicity and mechanical disruption. And then, there’s the old standby, too damn many people just being their oblivious algorithmic selves.

    Failure to recognize the poly-cyclic nature of natural changes in climate, and the cumulative success of the biosphere and the organisms within it at adapting to changes far greater than what we are seeing now.

    And so forth, ad nauseam

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