Debt Rattle October 28 2020

 

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  • #64909

    Gustav Klimt Pine forest I 1901   • Last Round-up at the Wokester Corral (Jim Kunstler) • Multi-Organ Impairment In Low-Risk Individuals With Lon
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle October 28 2020]

    #64911
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Gustav Klimt Pine forest I 1901
    What an exquisite, detailed, picture picture of a forest…
    Earth First!; We’ll log the other planets later…
    Anybody remember them?
    Possibly the difference between me and thee………
    One can post shit; and I’ll bring you plants that need that fertilizer…

    #64912
    Dr. D
    Participant

    “…a free society is obliged to tolerate the expression of disagreeable ideas up to the limit, as the Supreme Court put it, of “crying ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”

    That’s ridiculous. Obviously if you comment on open police reports and court records, use accurate legal language like “Illegal immigrant” or claim you won as a candidate “Dewey Beats Truman”, it’s hate speech and you should be silenced, de-personed, and arrested.

    Dewey
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Deweytruman12.jpg

    RussiaRussiaRussia. Land of the Free: That’s the American way!

    Clearly speech is only safe when protected by under a dozen unelected oligarchs who shut down political campaigns at will worldwide. Right Mr. Benjamin, Ms. Loomer, and Mr. Trump? You can have all the speech Mr. Bezos allows you.

    “UK Study Finds Evidence of Waning Antibody Immunity to COVID19 Over Time (R.)”

    I was more entertained by Bill “I’m not a doctor” Gates saying his first vaccine – the one we don’t have and they claim is only now in trial – won’t work. So we can’t stop until we have the SECOND vaccine, that we ALSO never tested and don’t have. That ALSO won’t work and will need to be re-taken regularly and posted on our citizen-travel-slip. “Papers, Please!” Or in this case “Nano-tattoos, please!” You know, or else you’ll be de-facto murdered by poverty and lack of opportunity, like all good Totalitarian Socialist Governments do when they’re “Helping” another 100 Million into mass graves.

    “We predict that President Trump is going to win the 2020 presidential election — and win big.”

    Wait, what about “Can every pollster in America be totally, stupidly wrong?” and “They will all have to look for a new job”? Don’t be so hard on yourself: every one of you were completely wrong in 2016 and nothing happened! You were not discredited, and are still breathlessly referred to as “Experts”. 100% credible and believed. I’m sure you could call every wrong for 100 years and still be experts. You know: like Economists.

    Appropos to nothing, there were so few people at Biden rallies, Kamala went to a voting station to rally voters. That is a felony. Election tampering. But not her first! Nothing will happen!

    “These election leaks are even more powerful than the Hillary Clinton emails.”

    Yes, and since the NY Times and NPR run infinite cover, they are releasing the news out of Taiwan. You know, where like Hong Kong, NON-Americans wave flags, clash in the streets, and defend America and human rights, because the media won’t.

    “I’m receiving calls from SDNY”

    Notice with both the NY Times and SDNY Feds calling him every day for years, nothing happened. Or ever will. They were so unconcerned, they didn’t even stop or change methods.

    “‘Covid First’ China Is Trumping ‘America First’ In Economic Recovery (Roach)”

    Yes, all VOLUNTARY lockdowns. That didn’t work. That the WHO says to stop now. That they say are killing more than the disease. With <10 Covid deaths e.g. in NY. And they made the lockdowns HARDER, in TN where they knew restaurants had nothing and nursing homes did, and Illinois, where the same is true.

    …But it’s Covid, not DNC Governors bucking the WHO directives and “science”. It’s not the AMA suppression of all and every therapy. Actually it’s South Dakota’s fault, which had no lockdown, no cases, and no economic crash. ‘Cause you know when anything happens, it’s always the fault of the poor and powerless, never the fault of the connected and powerful. As Mrs. Clinton has many times said.

    “The riots in Rome have become intense. You would think that any elected politician would think twice about imposing lockdowns after destroying an unbelievable number of jobs and small businesses which are vital in Italy which also counted on tourism which is non-existent. Something is just not right. This is not the way elected governments have acted in the past.” –Armstrong

    They are using helicopters and approaching them as rebels, as as Italy, looking to change the laws to use the military to “Bloody Sunday” the people. Totally predictable and on par with government ways. France already shot their eyes out.

    Meanwhile, although the U.S. is annoyed and dodging the rules, they are not rebelling against masks, generally. Our Federal system allows regional differences. Instead they are rioting and murdering policemen in Philly, “the City of Love” when they use self-defense against armed attackers. ‘Cause, no civil rights. Amirite? I can loot and kill YOU, you can’t defend yourself and kill me back. That’s tolerance! If you don’t let me stab you, you’re Hitler.

    Hey, is that #AntiLogos? Being against all rules, all sense, all order, and all laws? It is our god after all. Anything, everything, against the Word.

    Good times, good times. Eric Holder says, “Given Supreme Court rulings I urge everyone to now vote in person; early vote or use drop boxes.” He was summarily censored by Twitter for telling people to vote the way we have for 220 years.

    What did he mean by “Given court rulings”? What do court rulings have to do with whom you voted for? It is somehow related to recent videos of ONE person delivering 7,000 votes – such that ten people in 10 states could have swung the 2016 election – or the Iowa, Patterson, and Brooklyn screwups that were like 100k apiece? Or maybe randos on a lark burning ballot drop boxes from Boston to CA since they are unguarded?

    Eric: don’t you know that mail-in voting is just as safe as in-person and Carter was smoking crack when he said the twice-as-secure-as-mail-in, “absentee voting”, was the least secure method, the weakest link, and led to +2% error rate? Tsk tsk, sir.

    Clearly when you have a game with 220 year-old-rules, the only logical thing to do is to change the rules while we’re in the middle of an election, a few weeks before people have to play. That’s what makes it MORE fair and secure! Then we can tie-up that last second pass-play with the referees for two months until President Pelosi settles it for us. Democracy, we hardly knew ya.

    Stay tuned, I expect none of this is a surprise to the supercomputers burning electrons in the basement of Pennsylvania Avenue.

    #64913

    Washington Post headline this morning:

    Hundreds of Trump Supporters Stuck In The Cold For Hours When Buses Can’t Reach Omaha Rally

    See, they DO care about Trump supporters, deplorables, scum, lizard brains.

    #64915
    zerosum
    Participant

    Politics
    https://www.best-body-hair-removal.com/brazilian-wax-job.html
    How long the effects of a Brazilian wax treatment will last for you depends entirely on your own personal situation. If you are doing the ‘traditional’ Brazilian wax, then you need to remind yourself that the hair will grow back. Going for a quick Brazilian wax job may well get you through the vacation poolside however.

    #64916
    zerosum
    Participant

    The lawyers made sure that its “the law and legal” to help some but not all.
    https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/10/fad-press-release-2020-10-28/
    The Bank is continuing its QE program and recalibrating it as described above. The program will continue until the recovery is well underway. We are committed to providing the monetary policy stimulus needed to support the recovery and achieve the inflation objective.

    #64917

    How long the effects of a Brazilian wax treatment will last for you depends entirely on your own personal situation.

    As in, whether you’re personally situated in Brazil or not?

    But no, no silly questions, here we go, Let’s switch the Automatic Earth to practical advice you can actually use in your daily life, instead of all the theoretical and finance and political stuff, Who cares anyway? A properly done bikini wax, however, can pay off in spades. Choose your priorities wisely!

    #64918
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Multi-Organ Impairment In Low-Risk Individuals With Long COVID (medrxiv)

    Sounds scary, but is it scarier than other diseases out there? Difficult to put into perspective when you don’t know what percentage of COVID cases become “Long COVID”. I didn’t see any indication of this when I looked at that article last week..

    The study only looks at people who already have ongoing symptoms of Long COVID, i.e., “individuals symptomatic after recovery from acute SARS-CoV-2 infection.”

    #64919
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Craig Murray posted this a few days ago, under the title “Covid-19 and the Political Utility of Fear

    As a Stanford led statistical study of both Europe and the USA concluded

    “People <65 years old have very small risks of COVID-19 death even in the hotbeds of the pandemic and deaths for people <65 years without underlying predisposing conditions are remarkably uncommon. Strategies focusing specifically on protecting high-risk elderly individuals should be considered in managing the pandemic.”

    The study concludes that for adults of working age the risk of dying of coronavirus is equivalent to the risk of [dying from] a car accident on a daily commute.

    I should, on a personal note, make quite plain that I am the wrong side of this. I am over 60, and I have underlying heart and lung conditions, and I am clinically obese, so I am a prime example of the kind of person least likely to survive.

    The hard truth is this. If the economy were allowed to function entirely normally, if people could go about their daily business, there would be no significant increase in risk of death or of life changing illness to the large majority of the population. If you allowed restaurants, offices and factories to be be open completely as normal, the risk of death really would be almost entirely confined to the elderly and the sick. Which must beg the question, can you not protect those groups without closing all those places?

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/10/covid-19-and-the-political-utility-of-fear/

    The Stanford study he references:
    Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935120307854

    #64920
    zerosum
    Participant

    ” ….. Choose your priorities wisely!”
    LOL
    —–
    The tsx is down. Maybe, because BOC just said that they will not print money for everyone.

    The Dow is down. Maybe its because Nancy Pelosi and others are not letting Trump give money to people, ( another $1,200 stimulus check.), before the election.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-nancy-pelosi-has-said-about-a-second-stimulus-check-for-americans/ar-BB1apjiv

    Earlier last week, the House speaker told SiriusXM’s Joe Madison Show that President Donald Trump’s desire to send out another round of stimulus checks was an advantage for Democrats in the negotiation process.

    “The president needs this legislation. He wants that check to go into people’s pockets. He doesn’t care about any of the rest of it in terms of what it does for working families,” she said. “So that’s our leverage, you know, that he wants that, and that’s how we’re going to try to get the rest of it.”

    But Pelosi said Democrats couldn’t turn the other way on other areas of relief, such as funding for education and state governments, just for another $1,200 stimulus check.

    “We want it too,” she said. “We want that purchasing power to be in people’s pockets. We want that too. But you can’t just say, ‘We’ll abandon all the health issues, the education issues, the poverty issues, the state and local government and all that that does in order for just a $1,200 check as important as that is.”

    That’s been a repeated sentiment for the House speaker. Last month, when Trump urged Republicans to go for the “larger amount” relief package that included $1,200 stimulus checks, Pelosi reminded lawmakers that more would be needed for a deal than just “Trump checks.”

    “All they want is to have the president’s name on a check going out. That’s all he really cares about,” she said at the time. “We have to do more than just have the Republicans check a box.”

    #64922
    John Day
    Participant

    Thanks for more fine commentariat yesterday , brothers and sisters. I just caught up. Tuesday, election day, will bring no respite, I think. There is further news, which I cannot yet verify, and which may be false, set to further shatter things (until 5G can bring us all together in harmony some day.)

    There is a competition between the Western Empire and Chinese Empire. Russia is its own agent. Iran is Iran. The EU is whatever, an imperial construct in disarray…
    Here are 4 articles looking at geopolitics going forward. There is a battle over 5G standards, because 5G is emerging as the Ring Of Power to control people. their minds, their transactions, what they know, all that they do, and to banish them from all economy, if necessary, individually, or by the billions.
    5G will directly feed AI, which will know us, each ant, and all of our anthills and ant ways, and will direct our thoughts and movements in a lovely symphonic dance orchestration.We need this,because mistrust, selfishness and dishonesty are rampant, widespread. This leads to nihilism and the institutionalization of terrorism in a society.  In collapse and reset, like the Bolshevik revolution, anomie escalates to sadism. We have entered that Twilight Zone, already.(We need 5G to bring us together harmoniously in a new and better and fairer and safer world, with only good participants and nobody else.)..
    Alastair Crooke , a British diplomat, presents. Thanks for grouping these, Eleni.

    The Two Undersides to Geo-Politics

    The Double De-Coupling

    How Russophobia Wrought Death of the United States

    The Barbarians Are Threatening Us!

    Social media’s erasure of Palestinians is a grim warning for our futurehttps://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/palestine-facebook-twitter-google-erasure-warning

      China’s top cyber authority said on Monday it would carry out a “rectification” of Chinese mobile internet browsers to address what it called social concerns over the “chaos” of information being published online. China’s strict internet censorship rules have been tightened numerous times in recent years and in the latest crackdown, the Cyberspace Administration of China (CAC) has told firms operating mobile browsers that they have until Nov. 9 to conduct a “self examination” and rectify problems. The problems include the spreading of rumours, the use of sensationalist headlines and the publishing of content that violates the core values of socialism, it said in a statement.
      “For some time, mobile browsers have grown in an uncivilised way … and have become a gathering place and amplifier for dissemination of chaos by ‘self-media’,” the CAC said, referring to independently operated social media accounts, many of which publish news. “After the rectification, mobile browsers that still have outstanding problems will be dealt with strictly according to laws and regulations until related businesses are banned.”https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-censorship-browsers/china-launches-crackdown-on-mobile-web-browser-chaos-idUSKBN27B1Z3

    #64923
    John Day
    Participant

    I work with a young female physician, a true, intelligent humanitarian, who had COVID in mid July. She is still very tired every day, still coming to work, still caring for people, still unable to physically exert herself for sudden exhaustion. She continues to care for people, continues to test people, advises vitamin-D, but has no answer at all for her own human condition.
    I think this is the big deal going forward.
    This virus alters heart-muscle cells permanently.
    They don’t work effectively after that. They are not replaced in our bodies.
    What else might we yet discover?
    80% of people stop this virus in their noses and go on with life.
    20% don’t, it gets into their systems, arterioles, lungs, kidneys, heart and does weird things that are new to medicine.
    I don’t really care which lab it leaked from at this point. Coulda’ been any of ’em.
    Vitamin-D 5000 units/day long term is the prudent baseline. The upswing we are seeing in cases is the fall-off in natural vitamin-D levels. It is starting to get compounded by indoor gatherings again in the northern hemisphere. Vitamin-D : good, breathing air in crowded rooms : bad.
    See if you can get an option on Ivermectin/zinc/doxycycline treatment in case it gets past your nose.
    Good video by PAul Marik. Thanks Marjorie.. Skip to minute18 if you already now the pathophysiology. I am not convinced that the infection and viral load are all in the nose. That’s what’s easy to measure. I think it’s a flawed assumption. That’s my opinion. Marik is an expert. I’m just a simple-country-doctor.
    The course of action is exactly right-on, either way.

    #64924
    Maxwell Quest
    Participant

    “Gustav Klimt Pine forest I 1901”

    Got a chance to see Klimt’s “Portrait of Adele Bloch-Bauer” (aka Woman in Gold) while in NY a few years ago. A beautiful piece! When I tried to lean in to get a better look at his gold leaf work, a couple of guards responded immediately to head me off. Tourists can be such blockheads.

    “Last Round-up at the Wokester Corral (Jim Kunstler)”

    Kunstler gave voice to an issue that so many of us have had to deal with since Trump took office: where TDS, fanned to an intense heat by the bellows of state media, has driven family and friends apart. I remember posting a comment on this problem a couple of years ago when someone from the UK responded, “Tell me about it, you should try dealing with Brexit.”

    “Trump: VOTE”

    Is it just me or did anyone else think this was well done? It may have been the first time I actually made it to the end of a Trump video without stopping it partway in. With President Obama I never bothered to start it. His schtick aside, at least with Trump you can sense that his vocal cords are still connected to the core man; whereas with Obama, it always seemed that several layers of obfuscation separated the two.

    “Crickets in the MSM.”

    Compared to 2016, the state/tech media complex appears much more ham-fisted in its attempts to control the outcome. “They don’t even try to hide their bias anymore” is a common refrain. This has to be jarring a few people out of their media-induced trance.

    Of course, it pleases the Trump-haters immensely. The law and constitution be damned! No institution is more important than the emotional satisfaction of destroying Trump. If Carl Jung were alive, he could give a timely lecture on the dangers of the shadow; but then he’d have to be escorted out of the building under armed guard, while the frenzied crowd chanted “Burn him!”.

    #64925
    phoenixvoice
    Participant

    It is very difficult to protect vulnerable populations from Covid. Why? Because they are intermingled with the general, low covid risk population and it is financially and socially impossible to separate the vulnerable from the low-risk populations without empowering individuals and families to make granular decisions on a case by case basis, and for the individuals to receive financial support (such as: per rules of pandemic unemployment insurance). And the elites don’t want to give that much financial power to “the little people.”

    Case in point: A family with a father with a medical condition that affects immune system, mother, two elementary school age children. Father is able to work from home. Children are now doing remote school, and mother has taken on the full time job of caring for the children. Mother is no longer able to work outside the home. (Real-life case — I teach these kids piano through Zoom. Fortunately for this family, father’s income is sufficient. But what about families where income from one adult simply isn’t sufficient to keep the family afloat?)

    Case in point: My parents came to live with myself, partner, children. All of our activities then need to be cautious so we don’t get/spread the virus. This affects how we work, how we shop, our recreational activities.

    Case in point: Grandparents visit family regularly. Family does not take great care…family members get sick, and grandmother falls ill with covid.

    Case in point: Teen girl has condition that makes her vulnerable to covid. 3 step-siblings live 50% in her home and 50% in another home. Now, both households need to take great care in how they work, shop, and recreational activities.

    These are just situations that I am personally involved in — and I am just one person. “Lockdowns” don’t affect these situations — people will autonomously adjust their behavior (or not — and unwittingly spread covid), and that adjusted behavior (or covid spread) will be reflected economically. Many families are taking risks they should not take — sending kids to in-person school because they must work outside the home to support the family, even though they come in regular contact with vulnerable individuals.

    The only compassionate way to respond is to let people choose their own level of risk, and then give them access to the means to support themselves financially. But our economic/political systems are not compassionate, and they do not operate in a way to empower individuals to make their own choices. Propagandizing and influencing is what our systems do well.

    #64926
    John Day
    Participant

    @Phoenix Voice: Yes, when we see government advocacy of vitamin-D and ivermectin/Zn/doxy, we will know that the elites have agreed to cooperate and we can quit being subjected to the fear-and-isolation drills.
    Might not happen, right?
    Gotta’ bike to work in the cold and wet now, but I have appropriate garments.

    #64927
    John Day
    Participant

    Oh, Johndayblog is up, but you already saw the contents.
    https://www.johndayblog.com/2020/10/5g-for-permanent-president.html

    #64928
    anticlimactic
    Participant

    LAPTOP

    I still can’t get over the enormity of the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop.

    Firstly it shows the sleaze which seems to be a major part of US politics.

    Even worse, the pictures and videos of the underage girl turns ou to be his niece, who was 14 at the time.

    It isn’t as if he could not afford a new laptop so why put it in for repair when it contains such damaging information. It just seems to be arrogance to think there could be no consequences. There are some things which are illegal so it will be interesting to see if he ever gets prosecuted.

    #64929
    zerosum
    Participant

    If Trump loses, who want to bet that another $1,200 stimulus check will be approved before the next inauguration which is scheduled take place on Wednesday, January 20, 2021.

    #64930

    Biden Biden
    You’ve been slidin’
    What in the world have you been hidin’?
    Influence peddlin’
    fattened purse-
    Oh, my god, it’s much much worse!

    Would someone please run that Hunter audio on TV?

    If my spouse votes for Biden and I vote for Trump, have I joined the cancel culture?

    I still don’t know if I can do it. I think I need to take voting less seriously.

    Get out there and keep your immune system up and running.

    #64933

    Okay- over at Turley under the heading “Professors call out Beer and Beethoven…”, a commentor put up a video of “Old Movie Stars Dance to Uptown Funk”. (2015) I had never seen it! What an absolute delight!

    From above^. There wasn’t supposed to be a break in “influence peddlin’ fattened purse”.

    Zerosum- you are a hoot!

    #64934
    Dr. D
    Participant

    The long-term Covid is very real, but follows the rest of this non-science.

    They say, “COVID has caused permanent, long-term damage…”

    Really? How do you know? Nobody’s ever had it before. They may be bad at first and suddenly recover. Or gradually. Or get steadily worse. Point is: nobody knows, yet they’re claiming it anyway, all Sciencey-n-s**t.

    I expect it will be what it appears, but many are younger and can recover more than dismal science expects. People often do. They often survive things doctors claim is impossible and walk away. While others bump their head and drop dead, equally impossible.

    But the point is THEY DON’T KNOW. That tells me they desire the fear and seek evidence to support it. Humans do this, but Doctors need to be better and compensate. And when they talk, especially, because the media won’t. No matter what a doctor tells them in good faith, they will lie like a fiend, then laugh and get paid.

    #64936
    a kullervo
    Participant

    The missing headline:
    Extra! Extra! Read all about it:
    Education died of COVID-19

    Education is what remains when we have forgotten all that we have been taught.” (unknown origin)

    “Multi-Organ Impairment In Low-Risk Individuals With Long COVID (medrxiv)”

    Greetings,

    The new fear porn fantasy damaging adults’ brains all over the world:
    – Scientism has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that body organs will never fail nor deteriorate unless you get the SARS-CoV-2 thingy.

    This raises the question:
    – Are you supposed to die with an 100% healthy body?

    #64937
    Maxwell Quest
    Participant

    @anticlimactic

    “I still can’t get over the enormity of the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop.”

    I’ve had a couple thoughts on this… Seeing that Hunter is indeed a drug addict, his life might be such a ball of chaos that the laptop fell into the background noise and disappeared from whatever available consciousness the drugs left behind. Therefore, utter drug-addled carelessness.

    I lean more toward this next thought: that Hunter is not as horrible a person as his behavior implies, but is just trapped in a crime family from which he cannot escape. Bullied by his father, and continually troubled by his conscience, he turns to drugs and sex as an escape. The abandoned laptop, conveniently loaded up with enough evidence to bring down the whole kit-and-kaboodle, represents the proverbial “cry for help” — the trail of clues left by someone who desperately wants to be caught so that the whole nightmare can end.

    However, I’m not a real psychologist, but only play one on TV.

    #64938
    a kullervo
    Participant

    The four pedestrian truths:

    – Life is a sequence of transitory moments of pleasure and pain;

    – there’s nothing you can do to prevent it;

    – insulate from pain, insulated from pleasure;

    – increase the pleasure, increased pain follows.

    The Universal speaks through all things (and all people); some will pretend to be too busy to listen, some prefer to become autistic.

    Do with it what you may.

    #64939
    a kullervo
    Participant

    @Maxwell Quest

    Greetings,

    Thank you for keeping sanity alive.

    Cheers.

    #64941
    straightwalker
    Participant

    @MaxwellQuest

    I agree.. Although, I would expand “crime family” to include the large number of politicians who cheat and steal one way or another. The group normalizes the behavior, seduces new comers, provides protection, and makes it hard to change or escape. Power can be extremely addictive.

    A real, but human, mess. “There but for fortune…”

    #64942
    Bill7
    Participant

    ‘Mirages in a Desert Whose Water Runs Out’, by Russell Bangs:

    “The World Economic Forum gives another run-down on the totalitarian plan:

    “Far from settling into a ‘new normal’, we should expect a Covid19 domino effect, triggering further disruptions – positive as well as negative – over the decade ahead. “

    There’s a clue to the mass psychology of the Covid Death Cult. The rhetoric is familiar from forecasts of rising climate chaos, but with “Covid19” substituted for “climate”. (Of course in reality “positive as well as negative” feedback loops refer only to the direction of dynamism. All the effects on civilization and especially most of the effects on the 99% will for the short run be bad and destructive. But leave it to the global-technocratic elites to look for the good in the Covid “crisis” they engineered. Self-evidently they did it only in expectation of good for them and evil for everyone else.)
    In spite of all the rhetoric about a “green economy” and a “Green New Deal”, deep down everyone except the most idiotic *****climate crocodiles and right-believers in the climate-industrial movement know that the climate crisis cannot be solved within the framework of the economic civilization.
    Since no one wants to face the implications of this, the global technocratic elites waging the terror-lockdown assault which uses Covid as a pretext had the idea to include among their propaganda a substitution of “Covid”, which everyone (wrongly) believes can be controlled and suppressed by system institutions (just as they wrongly believe it needs special control), for the uncontrollable Earth..”

    Mirages in a Desert Whose Water Runs Out

    #64943
    Bill7
    Participant

    I too would like to thank Maxwell Quest for his comment today. That description of Mr. Obama was pithy, but it was all notably good.

    -Bill7

    #64945
    VietnamVet
    Participant

    There are opposing world views out there. One the pandemic is no big deal. Another is that trying to save the lives of the elderly is a humane undertaking worthy of restoring democracy and funding a functional public health system.

    But this interpretation from “Multi-organ impairment in low-risk individuals with long COVID” report is terrifying. “In a young, low-risk population with ongoing symptoms, almost 70% of individuals have impairment in one or more organs four months after initial symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection”.

    This turns the world upside down. China made the right decision. The USA the wrong one. The Trump Administration turning the White House into a super-spreader site and letting coronavirus run wild is way beyond being Herbert Hoover the Second. It is civilization destroying bad; not unlike, Tojo, Napoleon or Nero. Long haul symptoms are reported in 25% of the cases. If 25% of 9,119,836 Americans already infected (2,279,969 million) and 70% of them need long term healthcare (1,595,971), and a greater number to be infected through 2021 this helps to break the national bank unless public health system takes care of them for half the cost of the for-profit insurance scheme.

    If the exploitation of the little people continues together with the arrogance and the incompetency of the ruling elite; Civil War 2.0 is a certainty.

    #64946
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    @ VietnamVet

    I’m not finding evidence to support the statement “Long haul symptoms are reported in 25% of the cases.” Instead of 25%, it seems to be more like 2.5%.

    A recent study looked at 4,182 cases and found that less than 5% had symptoms lasting more than 8 weeks, and only 2.3% had symptoms lasting longer than 12 weeks. (Long COVID is defined in the Multi-Organ Impairment study as “persistent symptoms three months post-infection.”)

    Attributes and predictors of Long-COVID: analysis of COVID cases and their symptoms collected by the Covid Symptoms Study App
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.19.20214494v1

    #64948
    Huskynut
    Participant

    @ VietnamVet
    Even if it were true, would it mean we should automatically do everything possible to prevent it?
    This is the crux of the risk aversion strategy at the heart of Taleb’s model – rational enough.
    But history shows all species to be anything but rational. Society is built on emotions and conventions and superstitions and irrational attitudes at least as much as on rationality.
    And animal species will reflexively seek to preserve their own lives, but not to the detriment of the social group.
    This is where I believe we’ve been “blinded by science”. Rationality is wonderful at what it does well, but sterile in other domains ala Spock. therefore our response should be considered, but – weighing all dimensions – not necessarily preferencing science.
    I was struck by the Saker’s latest column in referencing the death of Soleimani here:
    http://thesaker.is/when-exactly-did-the-anglozionist-empire-collapse/
    He may be right or wrong in his characterisation of the man, but the outlook and heart he describes are a fundamental part of deeply founded human nature.
    We’ve lost touch with it in our technocracy, but it lives within us despite ourselves.

    #64949
    VietnamVet
    Participant

    @Doc Robinson

    My error. It was from National Geographic; “25 percent were still recovering after two months or longer”. It was a study of pregnant women. Like obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, age; pregnancy changes to the immune system and made the participants more susceptible to the virus.

    2.5% of the current number of US cases for two years calculates out to about 319,194.

    CDC has reported back in July that “As many as a third of patients who were never sick enough to be hospitalized are not back to their usual health up to three weeks after their diagnosis”

    Still the basic problem of letting the virus run free is that the illnesses have reached the current number of intensive care beds in the many hot spots across the nation and a large number of long term illness that will cost billions to treat are possible in the future. All because they didn’t close the borders or fund a public health system to fight the virus but decided to wait for a vaccine in 2021.

    #64950
    VietnamVet
    Participant

    @Huskynut

    Being a retired lowest rung technocrat, what do I have, if there isn’t a technological, scientific or an engineered solution? Not much. So, as the alternative, I fall back to the restoration of the New Deal (regulated capitalism) and a functional government that I grew up with. Eradicating the virus is possible. China, Vietnam, Taiwan, New Zealand are doing it.

    My war 50 years ago was for no good reason. They continue today. It is not rational. So you avoid thinking about it, too much, but it gets harder as the craziness grows. Americans are playing Russian Roulette right now.

    #64951
    Bill7
    Participant

    > Eradicating the virus is possible. China, Vietnam, Taiwan, New Zealand are doing it.

    What is your evidence for this claim-
    Press clippings, maybe? No virus has ever been “eradicated”, contrary to your claim; virii run their course, regardless of human actions.
    The ‘virus™’
    is cover for the economic reset that
    our so-to-say “elites” have been planning for
    quite some time. The ‘virus’ is the
    *least* of our present worries.. that otherwise reasonable people are advocating for continued, more stringent ‘lockdowns’
    to “fight the virus™” is far more frightening than their nominal target. Are you OK with the *permanent* loss of civil
    liberties that is inherent in your preferred approach?

    -Bill7

    #64952
    Huskynut
    Participant

    @Vietnamvet
    As a NZ citizen I want to flatly challenge the idea NZ is “eliminating” anything. We’re hiding, that’s all. And being an isolated pimple on the butt of the world, we can hide hide better than most.
    The virus will ultimately have it’s way with us, as it will for all others. As I observed earlier in the year – we can;t even keep fire ants out of NZ, despite fumigating all containers and the fact those bastards are visible to the naked eye. Eliminating a virus? Hubris.. utter hubris.

    But on the lighter side, and in keeping with the more upbeat note in recent days, I loved this vid:
    https://youtu.be/SkJPDXrlP6w

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