March 11, 2021 at 12:23 pm #70938Raúl Ilargi MeijerKeymaster
Piet Mondriaan The red cloud 1907 This is a open letter by a virologist named Geert Vanden Bossche. It may well be the scariest thing I’
[See the full post at: Mass Vaccination Amidst A Pandemic Creates An Irrepressible Monster]March 11, 2021 at 1:19 pm #70944OlduvaiParticipant
So we are doing the exact opposite of what is best for us in the long run? Unfortunately, nothing surprising there.
It reminds me of this passage from Donella Meadows in her book Thinking in Systems: “…a clear leverage point: growth. Not only population growth, but economic growth. Growth has costs as well as benefits, and we typically don’t count the costs—among which are poverty and hunger, environmental destruction and so on—the whole list of problems we are trying to solve with growth! What is needed is much slower growth, very different kinds of growth, and in some cases no growth or negative growth. The world leaders are correctly fixated on economic growth as the answer to all problems, but they’re pushing with all their might in the wrong direction. …leverage points frequently are not intuitive. Or if they are, we too often use them backward, systematically worsening whatever problems we are trying to solve.”March 11, 2021 at 1:50 pm #70947Dr. DParticipant
From the name I guess that GVB is a Dutch speaker but attempting to write in the international language of English in order to extend his audience?
What he’s saying is certainly possible but by no means required. The impluse, the tide is there, but there are many systems and mechanisms in place and if so the response will be very messy. The better to confuse what actually happened and who’s responsible. I just know since 1821 with Frankenstein, Science is incapable of learning, incapable of self-reflection on their self-inflicted side-effects (also known as “effects”, “cause and effects”) chasing the horizon.
They wanted easier work and now all men work 24/7 tied to a phone with no family, not friends, and no Medieval Feast Days and no Sabbath. Was pumping water in a bucket really that hard? But they said “We’ll take only the good things and not the bad things. We’re so smart we’ll make a one-sided coin.” And here we are. This will be no different, but how it plays out I can’t predict.
I assume, yes, the totally-untested non-vaccine that failed 100% of all times tried before will again have an “unexpected” (i.e. totally expected) side-effect that will cause the body to over-react immunodisease to the next non-flu that barely touches them. Or some like.
WHY IS THAT SO EASY TO PREDICT?March 11, 2021 at 2:10 pm #70948John DayParticipant
OK, I did not address the political battlefield of masking last night.
It’s become a black vs white fight, when reality is shades of gray.
Masks are better at catching globs leaving the nose and mouth with virus than they are at catching little, dry viral particles in the air, so they are better at reducing transmission if the person emitting virus wears them.
Some masks, like tightly-fitted N95 can filter a moderate amount of the incoming little, dry viral particles.
They are uncomfortable and may wear your skin raw if worn a lot.
When looking at large populations and mask mandates, it’s not the mandate that does anything, and it’s not the people who wear their masks on their chins, so it is actually hard to judge effects.
Western countries mask differently from Japan, which has masked since 1918. It is just wrong to pretend that a mask mandate in Japan is the same thing at street level as a mask mandate in a western country.
Since people in the west did not grow up masking regularly, there will be differences in specific population groups. We saw a big spread of COVID last spring and summer in work crews who went from job to job in crowded truck cabs, closed, with AC on.
I am appealing to reason here with narrative. I personally judge that masks will help reduce viral transmission if worn properly. More important is not being in crowded places with lots of people singing or speaking loudly (bars, megachurches, meat packing plants) where viral load in the air is maximized and breathing is vigorous, moving that air in and out a lot.
Masks are like burqas to me. Not my battle.
Comply in context like medical offices, stores and nursing homes (not parks) and avoid danger to self and to others as much as you can out of prudence and decency.
Mainly support your immune system. Your primary defense is the innate immune system in the nose and throat area. Vitamin-D , and possibly vitamin K2 help that. Minimizing inhaled viral load is important, and zinc has modest efficacy against coronaviruses, but don’t take a lot daily, because it inhibits copper absorption.
“Pandemic” is now “Endemic”.
This novel coronavirus has permeated populations everywhere, and is going through mutations, and will not go away, and some of the mutations sidestep the targeted vaccines by just not presenting the target for the vaccine, changing the look of the target.
Here is a link to excess death data by country for recent years. It’s not all the same.
The countries that had light flu seasons for a couple of years before COVID had more excess deaths in the vulnerable populations of ill and elderly. The countries that had more flu season deaths for a couple of years had fewer excess COVID deaths.
If COVID is the new Flu, then early outpatient testing and treatment is appropriate. Masking and quarantines cannot “contain” it, because it is everywhere, and people generally spread it the most in the first couple of days, when they have mild symptoms, and can’t take off work (Christmas retail workers).
Natural immnity, or immunity to “killed virus” vaccines is more broad spectrumMarch 11, 2021 at 2:31 pm #70950John DayParticipant
Here is more food for thought about the vaccine cartel, immune from liability… “Licensed to kill”, if one would be so indelicate.March 11, 2021 at 3:09 pm #70952
Piet Mondriaan demonstrates why I feel that the likes of Jackson Pollock are more superfluous than not.March 11, 2021 at 3:32 pm #70954
Summarizing money quote: “This is how we are currently turning vaccinees into asymptomatic carriers shedding infectious variants.”March 11, 2021 at 3:39 pm #70956
A summary of the problem, using quotes from above:
“We are currently turning vaccinees into asymptomatic carriers shedding infectious variants.”
“Basically, we’ll very soon be confronted with a super-infectious virus that completely resists our most precious defense mechanism: The human immune system.”
A summary of the proposed solution, using quotes from above:
“Natural Killer] NK cell-based vaccines will primarily enable our natural immunity to be better prepared (memory!) and to induce herd immunity (which is exactly the opposite of what current Covid-19 vaccines do as those increasingly turn vaccine recipients into asymptomatic carriers who are shedding virus).”
Which vaccines result in more NK cells? The BCG vaccine sounds promising against Covid-19 (and it’s been safely used for more than a century.) The OPV and MMR vaccines may also be promising.
From the Journal of Clinical Investigation:
Through the epigenetic and metabolic reprograming of innate immune cells, particularly monocytes, macrophages, and NK cells, BCG vaccination induces a long-lasting memory and the capacity to respond more strongly upon restimulation (17). This nonspecific boosting of the innate immune response following BCG vaccination has also been reported for other live, attenuated vaccines, including the OPV (19) and MMR (20) vaccines. Indeed, studies have shown that both OPV and MMR vaccines are associated with a decreased number of hospital admissions for infections, including fewer respiratory tract infections (37–39). Therefore, in addition to BCG vaccination, OPV or MMR vaccination may also be considered to mitigate the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic until safe and effective COVID-19–specific vaccines become available.
…Taken together, these results indicate that a history of BCG vaccination confers a nonspecific protective effect against SARS-CoV-2 infection and is associated with fewer self-reports of COVID-19 symptoms.March 11, 2021 at 3:40 pm #70957
A related article:
Tuberculosis vaccine may help protect against COVID-19
Scientists developed the BCG (bacillus Calmette-Guérin) vaccine more than 100 years ago to protect against the bacterial infection tuberculosis (TB). According to the World Health Organization (WHO), by 2004, around 100 million children a year were receiving the vaccine…
Scientists believe the vaccine primes the “innate” immune system, the body’s first line of defense against viruses and other invading organisms. Unlike adaptive immunity, innate immunity rarely targets specific pathogens that the body has encountered in the past…
In August 2020, Medical News Today reported another observational study, which suggested countries with mandatory BCG vaccination had a degree of “herd immunity” against the disease.
There are 22 clinical trials currently investigating BCG’s potential to prevent or treat COVID-19, which should provide more definitive evidence.March 11, 2021 at 4:05 pm #70960genericParticipant
This is quite similar to what Judy Mikovits was saying nearly a year ago or more. She is a very well educated and experienced biochemist, but I’m at the point where I don’t trust much of anything from anyone. As a non-expert, I have to just take any new information with the proverbial grain of salt and wait and see.March 11, 2021 at 4:14 pm #70961
This article published in The Lancet similarly addresses the problem of “immune evasion.” It calls for an end to “fear-based approaches based on seemingly haphazard stop-start generalised confinement as the main response to the pandemic; approaches which expect citizens to wait patiently until intensive care units are re-enforced, full vaccination is achieved, and herd immunity is reached.”
Dealing with immune evasion will require a re-evaluation of public health strategies…
If substantial immune evasion occurs, current vaccines are likely to still offer some benefit to individuals. At the population level, however, they could induce viral selection and escape, making the prospect of achieving herd immunity increasingly remote.
This virological game changer has numerous consequences, not only for vaccines and treatment, but also for prevention and control strategies. The fervently awaited end of this global health crisis might be continually postponed, as new variants emerge and immune evasion reduces vaccination effectiveness in the short and medium term.
Hence, it is time to abandon fear-based approaches based on seemingly haphazard stop-start generalised confinement as the main response to the pandemic; approaches which expect citizens to wait patiently until intensive care units are re-enforced, full vaccination is achieved, and herd immunity is reached.
Populations have so far been relatively complacent, but their doubts and distrust are visible in protest movements in several countries. The impact of general confinement on entire economies has been devastating, with worse still to come in levels of unemployment and national debt. Social and health (including mental health) consequences are also colossal, in particular for the younger generations, despite them being at low risk in terms of morbidity and mortality from SARS-CoV-2 infection.March 11, 2021 at 4:32 pm #70964
Survival of the fittest Immune system
Training of the Immune System is achieved by regular exposure to a myriad of environmental agents, including pathogens.
a pet, (a dog, a cat, a cow, a horse, a chicken),
Corona viruses can cross species barriers.March 11, 2021 at 4:46 pm #70965NoiretteParticipant
Dr D. : Geert Vanden Bossche is Belgian, Flemish (Dutch dialect vs. French-speaking.) His written English is very typical “Dutch”, so we know he wrote it himself. No editor or even vague advisor passed by there.
https://be.linkedin.com/in/geertvandenbossche (was posted in top link)March 11, 2021 at 4:58 pm #70966NoiretteParticipant
About the article Scientists Accuse CDC Of Misinterpreting Their Research For ‘Harmful’ School Reopening Guidelines posted in previous thread.
…States that K-12 education is open in Switz. since the UK variant. Yes, but not the whole story.
After the summer (say, as UK variant is mentioned), all outside-home venues for children, young ppl, were kept open.
Including “crèche” (day-care age 0 – 4/5 years, including private care, like a group of moms sharing), para-school (day-care for lunch, activites, outside of school hours, i.e. canteens, play and sports venues, and the like), primary school to age 12, lower secondary school to age say 14-16, special Ed. (all ages, incl. adults), upper secondary or high school to age 18-19.
Vocational training has taken a hit (one can’t be an apprentice in a closed facility) but class time is maintained, and the ‘practical side’ is, it is claimed “compensated for.”
Number of ppl allowed in a group is suspended, annuled, for approx. ages 0-18 (it is not the age that counts but the activity) for sports, group outings, and the like, provided it takes place in a state, para-state, or accredited private setting, and is supervised by adult(s), and proper measures are adopted (masks for ex.) Sports training of under-18 continues as usual (v. important in Switz, ski, ice-skate, tennis, marathon, etc.)
The Universities (age 18, 19 plus) are closed. U Students are in a bad way. Another story.
Here, everyone, afaik, approves of these measures. No way young ppl will bear the sacrifice. No way. They are life, they are the future, and deserve the best.
The covid stats (imho) don’t show negative results, outcomes, of such policies, as compared to other countries, => a very complicated topic.March 11, 2021 at 5:16 pm #70967Dr. DParticipant
Can’t stop / won’t stop:
“In a rare moment of truth of CNN Wednesday, Anthony Fauci admitted that there is no scientific reason why people who have had the COVID vaccine are still having their freedoms restricted.
CNN host John Berman asked Fauci “What’s the science behind not saying it’s safe for people who have been vaccinated – received two doses, to travel?”
“When you don’t have the data and you don’t have the actual evidence, you’ve got to make a judgment call,” Fauci replied, declaring that Americans will just have to trust the CDC.
SHUT UP AND DO AS YOU’RE TOLD!!!
So we should trust them because they are certain they have no idea at all. They literally just said that.
So it’s been a year. Same illogical, anti-science trash like this Every. Single. Day. Killed a couple ten thousands or more with lockdowns while selling their teeth for profit. Is there some day people wake up out of this haze? It was just this obvious from the first hour. When does it end? Is there ANY level of lies, ANY level of intentional mass-murder that can have an effect?
15,000 people say Andrew Cuomo says no. But SIX whole women, by God and humdingit!
Please, it’s YOUR lack of telling the truth, and acting from it, that makes me despair of life.March 11, 2021 at 5:52 pm #70976a kullervoParticipant
Human evolution: from simple clumsiness to clumsy complexity.
We are better than our ancestors because, instead of grunting while using rocks and body strength, we now also use plastics, electricity and words to make mistakes and commit crimes.
After all, there’s nothing like feeling effortlessly cool and restrained while doing things – even of the despicable kind – to make everything look definitely better.
(What is the goal of the portraitist? To depict things; simple as that.)March 11, 2021 at 6:16 pm #70977Dave NoteParticipant
At this point, the ‘authorities’ have lied and flip flopped so many times on so many critical aspect of Covid, it’s hard to believe even a legitimate reasonable sounding case such as Geert Vanden Bossche.
Yea, sounds scary.
So did rigging all the election machine in 2020 for undermining democracy.
Ivermectin and HCQ have great benefit but were demonized by the ‘authorities’.
They’re flat out wrong and are pimping effectively untested mRNA cancer therapy knockoffs and PCR tests with cycles set ridiculously inaccurate, which were NEVER even design to be used as diagnostic tests.
The legal grounds for ‘emergency powers’ like lockdowns and masks and especially ‘vaccines’ are predicated, in the ‘emergency powers’ law, as only being legal if there are no effective alternatives, like Ivermectin and HCQ.
If Ivermectin and HCQ had been honestly studied, they have probably saved more people globally by a large percentage than masks and lockdowns and without the economic Holocaust that lockdowns has produced.
Just look at Asia compared to the US for economic activity in the Age of Covid
China, in February, had the biggest movie theatre box office total in history, 2 Billion Dollars from people going to the movie houses.
The US in February had 14 million in box office from theater goers.
2,000 million vs 14 million
That says it all as to Covid approach and economic outcome
That about 143 times bigger than the US movie going public.
So who is closer to “Normal” The US or China?
Even accounting for China being 5 times as large, that’s still 28 times the kind of normal economic activity for something as mundane as going to the movie with friends.March 11, 2021 at 6:25 pm #70978
Humans are the best life form that has evolved and acquire the ability to find, to dig, to extract, and recycle the buried nutrients, by plate movements, volcanoes, and weathering, which all life forms require to survive.March 11, 2021 at 9:06 pm #70983
7 Unbelievable Real Life Bubble Kids
POSTED ON DECEMBER 9, 2016 BY GRACE MURANOMarch 11, 2021 at 9:27 pm #70984danbashawParticipant
When I ran into the Geert Vanden Bossche post yesterday, the first thing that popped to mind was ‘this is a psy-ops set-up’. The intro paragraphs seem intentionally spammy, the narrative escalatory, the science vague, with no references. Too many flags. It felt to me like it was designed to be widely circulated and then discredited.
Of course that may not be the case, as the author apparently has a long online history, and working in second language no doubt presents challenges. Still it focused my mind on the fact that there currently are some serious dirty tricks campaigns underway to flush out, discredit and de-platform dissenting voices online, and that sources that feel ‘off’ – as this one did to me – need to be approached carefully.March 11, 2021 at 10:16 pm #70986GlenndaParticipant
That was my impression too. Seems like time to just wait and see.
“The intro paragraphs seem intentionally spammy, the narrative escalatory, the science vague, with no references. Too many flags. It felt to me like it was designed to be widely circulated and then discredited.”
And just to be the odd-one-out here — I got both doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Not much post vac reaction, but my 50 yr old daughter had teeth chattering fever from her second dose. I let myself be pressured to get the vaccine to give my daughter peace-of-mind, since she works with a lab doing covid research.March 11, 2021 at 11:23 pm #70987dermotmoconnorParticipant
Ugh, more on the ‘irrepressible monster’:
“Our study and the new clinical trial data show that the virus is traveling in a direction that is causing it to escape from our current vaccines and therapies that are directed against the viral spike,” says Ho, the director of the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center and the Clyde’56 and Helen Wu Professor of Medicine at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons.
“If the rampant spread of the virus continues and more critical mutations accumulate, then we may be condemned to chasing after the evolving SARS-CoV-2 continually, as we have long done for influenza virus,” Ho says. “Such considerations require that we stop virus transmission as quickly as is feasible, by redoubling our mitigation measures and by expediting vaccine rollout.”March 12, 2021 at 12:19 am #70988
“Our study and the new clinical trial data show that the virus is traveling in a direction that is causing it to escape from our current vaccines and therapies that are directed against the viral spike… Such considerations require that we stop virus transmission as quickly as is feasible, by redoubling our mitigation measures and by expediting vaccine rollout.”
In that article, the lead author of the study (published in Nature) confirms that “immune escape” is a problem, but his proposed “required” solution is to fully commit to these vaccines, and redouble (not relax) masking and physical distancing (and lockdowns?)
“We have to stop the virus from replicating and that means rolling out vaccine faster and sticking to our mitigation measures like masking and physical distancing. Stopping the spread of the virus will stop the development of further mutations.”
The authors of the Lancet article (linked earlier) propose a different solution which essentially rules out continued general lockdowns and calls for governments to “apply available measures in a way that is much more targeted to different generational groups,” such as self-isolation of “the older and more vulnerable groups” to reduce their risk of infection.March 12, 2021 at 12:39 am #70989
In other words, “the science” says that the immune escape/evasion problem with current Covid vaccines means that masking and physical distancing will have to continue, and even redoubled, not relaxed. This is the opposite of what Dr Fauci and the CDC are now recommending.
Geert Vanden Bossche, on the other hand, proposes a different kind of vaccine rollout, which will strengthen the body’s Natural Killer cell response to all Covid variants, while reducing the propensity for the Covid virus to mutate to these more dangerous variants.March 12, 2021 at 12:43 am #70990
Thanks once again Ilargi; keeping the realities of our present, present.
We’re (my wife and I) not getting vaccinated at this time (if ever).
The clusterfuck that is the west (the NATO block) is, in simple terms, insane with fear and can no longer be trusted with anything concerning humans’ health and well being…
We will continue with V-D3 & V-C and maintaine our normal diet of minimal meat and maximum grains, fruits, vegetables, seeds, and nuts…March 12, 2021 at 2:10 am #70992thomasjkenneyParticipant
I tried to find a comment I posted last night at MoA on this topic, that we need continuous low-level exposure to everything. Seems to have been deleted. I’ve never had b delete any of my posts.
Anyway, yeah, I logic’d this one out last year, too.
I don’t know if this has been posted here yet: The Manifesto of Great Awakening. Against Great Reset. This article speaks to the other thing I logic’d out last year…atomization of the populace.March 12, 2021 at 2:59 am #70994thomasjkenneyParticipant
Links to this thread are being ‘disappeared’ when I try to post them at MoA.March 12, 2021 at 3:07 am #70995Susmarie108Participant
RE: “Piet Mondriaan demonstrates why I feel that the likes of Jackson Pollock are more superfluous than not.”
Ya still can’t get over that series of Pollack pics, right? Here’s one to help you along…Freefall by Anne Leveque. We just hung this piece in our Abstract Expression show.March 12, 2021 at 6:03 am #71002VietnamVetParticipant
The gene therapy of lipid encased mRNA taking over the cell’s protein assembly process to make coronavirus spike protein to flood the body to induce an immune response does appear to be a sledge hammer approach. My gut feeling is that without animal safety data this is taking a real unknown risk. Hundreds of millions of humans are Guinea Pigs. Adding to the unease is the lack of trust that corporate media would honestly report any adverse events.
There was a conscious high level Western Establishment decision to accelerate at warp speed the development and marketing of profit-making gene therapy and call it a vaccine. The governmental public health responsibility to eliminate the transmission of the virus by closing of the borders, universal testing, contact tracing, structuring work and school bubbles, and safe quarantines is ignored.
There wasn’t a second thought. Profits are more important. In fact, only functional governments protect their people from war, famine, and the plague. The loss is self-evident now in the Americas and Europe.March 12, 2021 at 7:08 am #71003
There wasn’t a second thought. Profits are more important. In fact, only functional governments protect their people from war, famine, and the plague. The loss is self-evident now in the Americas and Europe.
Indeed, and few enough of them even exist (functional governments).
By sheer flip of the coin I ended up living in one…fortunate me…
The thing that gets stuck in my craw? How compliant the majority are; allowing injustice after injustice to be piled upon them with barely a whimper, or so it seems from here…March 12, 2021 at 7:16 am #71004
…well, another goddamned edit gone into the ether…March 12, 2021 at 3:12 pm #71021
The logic of the Dutch paper transcends any other aspects. UNless someone can knowledgably explain why the logic is false, I think the paper by Geert Vanden Bossche is spot-on scientifically accurate.
I enjoy abstract art, just prefer it not be pretentiously so. Same rules apply to representative art.
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