Vaccines for Guinea Pigs


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    Willem de Kooning Door to the river 1960     While I’m trying to read my way into the world of vaccines, not my field at all, I think the lo
    [See the full post at: Vaccines for Guinea Pigs]


    I’ve got to repost my questions
    Will a vaccine reduces serious infections and/or death?

    1. Should everyone take the vaccine for covid19?
    2. Should a person take the covid19 test before getting the covid19 vaccine?
    3. Should a person take the vaccine after getting covid19?
    4. Should a person take the vaccine after getting covid19 after being admitted in the hospital?
    5. Should a person who is over 65 yrs old, who have other issues, (high blood pressure, diabetic, over weight, immune system compromised, etc.) take the vaccine?
    6. Should a person who is in a care home take the vaccine?

    If you answer yes to the above questions, you are wasting your money and endangering your health.
    Better than a vaccine?
    Recommendation for everyone over 65 who are afraid to die and are richer than me?
    1. Spend your savings to enjoy life
    2. Go south to get your vitamin D from the sunshine
    3. Eat a great non-fattening diet to get your Zinc
    4. Don’t use cheap care workers. Use a live-in nurse
    5. If you lost your partner, Don’t forget that when you are retired, soul mates are attracted by the color of gold not your sexy body
    6. Travel in your own plane with only your entourage.
    7. Continue to avoid the rif-raf
    8. Keep doing virtual meetings and avoid creating demonstrations by any opponents ( Four geoeconomic summits compressed in one week tell the story of where we stand in these supremely dystopian times… The (virtual) signing of RCEP in Vietnam was followed by the equally virtual BRICS meeting hosted by Moscow, the APEC meeting hosted by Malaysia, and the G20 this past weekend hosted by Saudi Arabia.)
    Does anybody remember ….
    Thalidomide was introduced in 1956 and was aggressively marketed by the German pharmaceutical company Chemie Grünenthal as a medication for anxiety, trouble sleeping, “tension”, and morning sickness.[3][4] It was introduced as a sedative and medication for morning sickness without having been tested on pregnant women.

    Doc Robinson

    For more information, I recommend this article which was published last month by the American Chemical Society journal ACS Nano. It explains differences and tradeoffs between vaccine approaches, with some companies using a human adenovirus platform (Sputnik V, J&J, CanSino), while others use a chimpanzee adenovirus (Oxford/Astrazeneca). The article also gives details about the nanotechnology involved in the mRNA vaccines, and why some mRNA vaccines may contain chemicals like polyethylene glycol (PEG).

    COVID-19 Vaccine Frontrunners and Their Nanotechnology Design

    Basseterre Kitona

    Speaking of vaccine guinea pigs, here is a good example of the risks as NPR looked into a rushed dengue virus vaccine in the Philippines:

    Cure was worst than the disease. Perhaps the most interesting part is the the Phillipino gov prosecuted 10 public health officials during the fallout.

    Granted most western govs are pretty feckless these days. But if I were a public health tyrant then maybe I’d think twice about pushing experimental vaccines if it could land me in jail.


    Lesson learned …. don’t talk to the FBI
    Donald Trump Pardons Mike Flynn 3 Years After Ex-Security Adviser Charged With Lying to FBI


    No vaccine- as if your life depended on it. Autoimmune diseases are precisely what vaccines are accused of causing by all the better “conspiracy” theorists.

    Can I dance on Zoom? I cannot. Can I wrap my arms around you? No, I cannot. Can we knock our foreheads together in mutual despair? No. We cannot. Keep your eyes on 3 dimensional life- the real thing. Not the virtual reality we are being sold. Live 3D. (short i).
    Happy Thanksgiving, all my American 1D friends!

    a kullervo


    Let us get things straight:
    – You are going to be blackmailed by TPTB into taking a potentially unsafe vaccine, otherwise you will be sentenced to death by starvation/suicide («No vaccine? No work, can’t go outside, can’t buy food.») What are you going to do? Fight? After all these years of dutiful compliance?

    Get real! You are fooling yourself.
    Can you hear the rest of the sheep bleat? Good – go join ’em.

    As for me, I’m already dead – just a matter of time until the body catches up with it.

    a kullervo

    (My apologies)

    What are you going to do? Fight? After all these years of dutiful compliance?


    @a kullervo

    No…what I’m going to do is what I said: adapt..create and endure. Trust me they do not want to fight with little peeps that can make actually make something (weapons?) and they know it. Think about it…they have to call somebody to screw the lightbulb in. Who has the power?

    ‘Course I’m 2 IPA’s down so my thinking may be chemically biased. Happy thanksgiving even if you think the founders were scoundrels. Enjoy your family and friends ..forget the history for a day. Quit killing the messengers.



    And just to be clear..I have traveled the world and no country I have been to has better craft beer than the USA.

    Just sayin’


    Bill Roope

    How wonderful to be an American pharmaceutical company.
    The government gives you money to develop a
    vaccine for the Corona virus.
    And, indemnity from any harm it may cause.
    You can sell it at a high price, and keep all the profits.
    And, if it does cause severe auto-immune disorders,
    there’s a vast new group of lifelong patients to sell
    expensive and dangerous drugs to.

    a kullervo


    Thank you for your words.
    Not killing the messengers – nevertheless, too many of them tend to become tiresome.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and to all who allow themselves to really celebrate the day throughout the world, regardless of what is about to be foisted upon us all by whatever authority.


    (Thanksgiving not a thing in the culture where I was brought in but your kindness is welcome.)

    a kullervo


    TPTB don’t need the little people for menial tasks, they have the robots and the “spineless” – even if you run out of parts for the former, you will always have a steady supply of the latter (until mankind fades.)

    Craft beer – fortunate of him/her who have tasted ’em all!


    I see what looks like another predetermined outcome. Today the ABC (Australian) offers a “Coronacast” introduced thus:

    Is the Oxford vaccine worse than the other ones?

    On Coronacast with Dr Norman Swan

    All of a sudden, the world has three strong vaccine options to fight coronavirus. There’s the Moderna vaccine, the Pfizer vaccine and now the Oxford vaccine.

    But while Moderna and Pfizer both reported they were more than 90 per cent effective, the press release for Oxford said it was only 70 per cent effective on average.

    Australia has a deal to get access to the Oxford vaccine if it’s approved, but is it as good?


    This ignores the rest of the Oxford press release which states:
    • In the two different dose regimens vaccine efficacy was 90% in one and 62% in the other
    • Higher efficacy regimen used a halved first dose and standard second dose


    So yes, while the average of 90 and 62 is 76%, the issue is that the better results came with the second does, which the ABC seems to have ignored. I wonder why.

    Dr. D

    That’s great and you’re totally right, we shouldn’t do this for profit.

    One problem: I went down and asked the top research doctors if they’d like to work for free and they said after 13 years of straight As in lower education, 6 years of intense unpassable medical training and 25 years of field research, never having vacations or seeing their families and they said they had mortgages and just couldn’t manage to work for free on a volunteer basis. They put in a lot of free hours as it is.

    So I went to Home Depot and asked the men standing around if they wanted to work for free, but they said no, they had rent to pay and families to feed.

    So I went to the farmer, since he has all the goods and seems to run everything, and asked him if he could provide all my workers food for free. But he said he has land taxes, labor costs, pays for parts, tires, and oil by the hundred-thousand and couldn’t work for free.

    So I went to the oil rig and asked them if they could work for free to pay the farmer, but they said they have to pay roughnecks, helicopter pilots, petroleum engineers, have steel parts breaking down, pipeline, and refining costs.

    So I asked the chemical plant if they could work for free, and deliver free feedstock for the vaccines, free plastic for the syringes, free alcohol for the wipes, but they said they have warehouse and trucking costs and couldn’t work for free.

    So all these people said they didn’t want to work for nothing, make no profit, spend a year and have less to show for it than when they started, lose their houses, factory, refinery, their family, their home, their skill.

    Because it’s not about the “profit” is it? It’s about mobilizing and directing, totally consuming and destroying resources to accomplish an end. And as we merely have the hours of our lives, at the end of our long, arduous, unpleasant, and for doctors as well as oil men: dangerous work, we strangely feel we should have MORE afterwards, not less. That we shouldn’t START in a mansion and end in a tent for our trouble, our risk, our time, but quite the reverse: that as a society and a people we should all START in a buffalo-skin tent and END in a warm house with electricity and hot water, and this is how we do it.

    But that’s me. Maybe you can convince the entire nation, all the people together to get less, to have no seed corn set aside after the end of a year’s or a life’s work.

    Meanwhile, I was thinking, if only we had capitalism, I could CHOOSE to buy the Russian, the Swiss, the American, the British vaccine – or no vaccine at all – at my leisure. AND I wouldn’t pay for any of them except the one I wanted, I supported, I believed in. Then the vaccine creators, having wide competition, not only would they have to create it at a reasonable price, not only would they have to be better and safer than the next guy, but they would have to keep lowering prices in order to compete until – like HCQ and other off-patent drugs, they are so close to free it’s almost like no profit at all. They are commodities, available to all.

    madamski cafone

    Regarding mRNA “vaccines”: rogue recombinant DNA is almost guaranteed to be the outcome. Mess with the messengers, you mess with the message.


    As for wishing we still had cpitalism: we do. And capitalism, like some famous blokes said, always leads to slavery, as does socialism, monarchy, communism, any -ism.

    All -isms are something one works for and, about the time think you have it, vanishes into yet another form of more or less totalitarianism before resuming our favorite reformative matrix: chaos.


    @madamski wrote:

    “As for wishing we still had cpitalism: we do. And capitalism, like some famous blokes said, always leads to slavery, as does socialism, monarchy, communism, any -ism.

    All -isms are something one works for and, about the time think you have it, vanishes into yet another form of more or less totalitarianism before resuming our favorite reformative matrix: chaos.”

    Oh woman! that just speaks to me! So much free energy available in chaos. Design from resource opportunity knocks!. Got mused once out of the blue…I wrote it on the big squeaky pen board in the shop…..”The door from darkness open onto chaos”. It just made sense now.

    ………for all the doom and gloom on TAE I will not be beat down!


    Doc Robinson

    Dr D’s comment seems to be erroneously considering “not for profit” to mean the same as all-volunteer (“work for nothing”).

    For example, most community hospitals in the USA are nongovernment “not for profit”, yet employees there can be well paid. CEOs of some nonprofits earn millions of dollars per year.

    “The highest-paid nonprofit leaders — CEOs, Executive Directors, etc. — all earn at least $900k per year, and into the tens of millions for the largest of hospitals and health systems.”

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