SteveB

 
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  • in reply to: A Quadrillion Dollar Deflationary Debt Raft #5480
    SteveB
    Participant

    pipefit post=5167 wrote: Hi Steve–Your guess is as good as mine, I suppose, lol.

    Yes, every thought about the future is a guess (and a lie).

    pipefit post=5167 wrote: Following a fascist coup, I’ll concede that there could be a small window of deflationary action, quickly followed by loss of reserve status for the dollar, then hyperinflation. You’re kind of nitpicking with these small windows of time, though. I think it is pretty obvious that the preponderance of the evidence points to dollar collapse, regardless of whether it strengthens for a year or two along the way.

    It only takes a day for assets to lose most of their dollar value. I don’t much care whether it’s a year, two, or just a few months. Referring to the pointing to and preparing to traverse the potential chasm as nitpicking seems oddly minimizing and potentially risky, depending on what actions follow those thoughts.

    in reply to: A Quadrillion Dollar Deflationary Debt Raft #5472
    SteveB
    Participant

    pipefit post=5162 wrote: There is no way in heck that this deflationary. There are two possible outcomes. The obvious one is that the money to pay these REQUIRED benefits is created out of thin air, which is hyper inflationary.

    Hi Pipe,

    The unaddressed question is, “When”? Your case would likely be for “sooner” and Skip’s would likely be for “later, after deflation”. The latter is my own guess since those “entitlement” costs aren’t all due immediately.

    in reply to: A Quadrillion Dollar Deflationary Debt Raft #5464
    SteveB
    Participant

    pipefit post=5147 wrote: The USA government HAS thrown in the towel. Don’t you get it? What else would you call an ANNUAL budget deficit of 35% to 40% of GDP?

    I won’t speak for Skip, but here’s what he wrote earlier that addressed that question pretty clearly:

    skipbreakfast post=5140 wrote: It’s important to keep in mind that hyper-inflations are not triggered by efforts to stimulate economic recovery and create jobs, the way Bernanke is attempting to do. Hyper-inflations are triggered by collapsed economies that throw in the towel on the people in an effort to repay debts in a currency which the world has rejected.

    Maybe “extend and pretend” is (still) the appropriate term.

    in reply to: Shale gas and electricity generation #5455
    SteveB
    Participant

    From the article: “There is an electric problem,” agreed FERC Commissioner John Norris. “We have to make sure there is a consistent fuel supply to meet electricity needs.”

    Or maybe more accurately, to cover the waste. Also no mention of insulation, etc. with regard to heating needs in the Northeast. But those are thoughts on the near term and immediate circumstances. I’m also interested in Nicole’s big-picture perspective.

    in reply to: Hungary Throws Out Monsanto AND The IMF #5419
    SteveB
    Participant

    Ilargi, any thoughts on how long that ECB boondoggle might last before falling apart? I’m guessing a few months, but this is new territory for my attention.

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5405
    SteveB
    Participant

    Adam Goodwin post=5087 wrote: All of those conditions and more have to align for ‘state power’ to be carried out to any extent.

    That seems to be the case now and in the historical record. Are you suggesting it’s not that way? Are you suggesting anything (in 25 words or less so we have a better chance of getting it)?

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5399
    SteveB
    Participant

    Adam Goodwin post=5085 wrote: People shouldn’t shy away from getting into debt right now; conversely, they should actively seek to get in more debt and then tell the ‘creditors’ to F off.

    Got 50 bucks I can borrow? 🙂

    I don’t disagree with much of what you’ve written, Adam. However, I don’t think that TAE is lamenting the “debt crisis” as much as acknowledging it and suggesting that individuals take heed by putting their own house in order before the bankers take it away. I think Dave’s comment probably covered that.

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5391
    SteveB
    Participant

    Adam Goodwin post=5081 wrote: After reading this Site for sometime, I am still baffled that some people think a part of prepping for the collapse is ‘getting out’ of debt. Isn’t that the mentality that got us here to begin with?

    It goes beyond mentality into law, i.e., the so-called social contract. Is that what you mean to refer to rather than the thinking of individuals about their personal circumstances and behaviors within that system? In other words, are you really baffled that people living within a system think in ways that are congruent with the rules of that system?

    Adam Goodwin post=5081 wrote: Why have we fooled ourselves into thinking for so long that it’s OK for a man with a gun to take away our house or our car if we don’t transfer numbers on a computer screen or hand pieces of paper to someone that works in a reinforced building called a ‘bank’?

    Because most people haven’t ever seen a man with a gun at their door.

    I’ll pass on your medicine (got enough skepticism, thanks), but I’d like to hear your perspective on how we might successfully abandon/exit/whatever the system or at least what you imagine might be a better way to prepare for what’s presumably to come.

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5384
    SteveB
    Participant

    ashvin post=5074 wrote: You believe that money always leads to problems for others, correct?

    So as not to ignore your question I’ll simply point out that those are your words, and that I make a distinction between money and the use of money, in particular as a global society. Also, I look forward to feeling stressed about the reactions of others to my ideas. (See the turnaround to question 6 on the “Judge Your Neighbor Worksheet” on Katie’s site.)

    ashvin post=5074 wrote: However, the point of my post is to tell those people that the truth (as they believe it) is more important than all of those worldly concerns.

    And there we are simpatico, as The Work helps people do that (when they use it), not by suppressing feelings, but by exposing the lies we tell ourselves for what they are.

    What will I do as I encounter these (hypothetical) stressed people in the future? Judge them (because that’s what we do), question my thoughts, turn it around (“They shouldn’t be stressed.” Hmm. “I shouldn’t be stressed about them.” Yes, that’s better.), then be available to them in any way I can–and share The Work with them if they’d like to learn it. Kind of like the present. 🙂

    Maybe other readers will share an approach that they’ve found useful and effective in overcoming fears, sadness, anger, and other strong feelings (all of which I lived with for decades, sometimes to the point of behaving violently, even toward loved ones). If not that, maybe someone would be willing to fill out a JYN Worksheet (available on Katie’s site) to do The Work on “those people”, then share it here.

    I found The Work after searching those few decades for help–for a recipe for sanity. Only Eckhart Tolle’s thinking and the Tao Te Ching (on which Katie has written with her husband, Stephen Mitchell, in their book, A Thousand Names for Joy) come close to it’s insight and practical, proven usefulness, IME (in my experience). Everything else I found was a story (which is a term of art in The Work, by the way, as in “Who would I be without my story?”).

    Bonus: after a while it’s almost as simple as breathing. (I’ve only used the worksheet a few times, it happens in my head mostly.)

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5382
    SteveB
    Participant

    ashvin post=5068 wrote: Your strategy may generally improve your relationship with others, but if it’s solely based on avoiding or eliminating your own emotional suffering, then you may end up in situations in which that strategy becomes counter-productive to helping others.

    Hasn’t happened yet in the 4 1/2 years that The Work has been doing its thing inside my head and I’ve been sharing it with others.

    I mostly get hugs and “Thank you!”s (mainly from my wife, but from a bunch of friends as well). I’m also happier than I’ve ever been, out of an unsalvageable marriage, out of debt, out of the markets (I no longer fund the insanity), cashed out my IRAs, helping my parents with their retirement investments, newly married, growing fruit trees and vegetable gardens where the garage and lawn used to be, walking the three-mile round trip to the store for groceries, a candidate for mayor in 2010, going net zero with energy-efficient lifestyle, added insulation, passive solar windows, a wood stove, and (soon) PV (we’re already the lowest energy users in the neighborhood at consistently half the average household use, even though we both work at home and regularly have the kids and friends over for dinner), working part time and loving it, and writing a book about ending the use of money.

    It’s not just about ending (my) suffering, it’s also about loving reality, loving life, loving myself, and loving you and your story (and them and theirs).

    PS: You’re a gracious host. That goes a long way. I’ll keep sharing. Thanks.

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5376
    SteveB
    Participant

    ashvin post=5064 wrote: If you make the threshold “absolutely”, you will necessarily end up abandoning the truth in order to purge your “bad thoughts”.

    That’s not my experience. Has that been your experience?

    ashvin post=5064 wrote: I also disagree that thoughts are inherently the source of suffering. It’s a combination of our prideful, egoistic, selfish mentality and the objective circumstances of the world that lead to suffering. So yes, many times we will find ourselves with counter-productive thoughts, but those are just the symptoms of a deeper cause – our underlying mentality in relationship to the objective circumstances around us. And I don’t believe it is even possible for us to eliminate that mentality – it can only be recognized and mitigated.

    What is “mentality” if not thoughts?

    ashvin post=5064 wrote: How do we mitigate it? Well, that’s the point of difference here. I believe that primarily comes from sticking to certain values/principles and being absolutely truthful with others, even when we don’t feel comfortable doing so. You and Katie seem to believe it comes from focusing inwards on our own thoughts and their effects on our own state of being. I believe that could ultimately end up exacerbating the problem rather than mitigating it.

    How do you be “absolutely truthful with others” if you don’t know the truth? The Work helps me understand the truth for myself so I can be available for others, unconfused and truthful (as opposed to playing a role or acting as if I know the future.)

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5370
    SteveB
    Participant

    ashvin post=5055 wrote: You also seem to be assuming that avoidance of “suffering” should be our end goal, namely emotional suffering. My argument is that we should embrace a life of doubts, fears, anguish, uncertainty, etc., even the possibility of physical suffering, if we believe it to be endured in the name of truth. That is what humanity needs more than anything else right now – the cold, hard truth. And if everyone sits back, shuts up and focuses on their own comfort or well-being, we will never even have a chance of getting to that.

    I’m not interested in avoiding suffering, rather, I’ve learned how to end it in myself, so embracing it makes no sense. I’ve also learned that the truth is peaceful, not cold and hard, that what’s left after the confusion of suffering (from believing untrue thoughts) is just love, and so I act out of love when I’m thinking clearly, not out of confusion and fear, which tend to lead to more suffering (by creating a more elaborate story of untrue thoughts, typically about the past or future that don’t exist). People who think clearly, act, they don’t sit back and allow others to suffer. I’m just one example: I’m sharing my experience and my awareness of The Work with you and others here (and all my friends as well).

    The second question is, “Can you absolutely know that it’s true?” It’s a yes or no question. There’s no “very likely to be true”. There’s only one truth: yours, and it’s none of my business. But I love you, and so I invite you to learn more about this, to really test it for yourself, so that you might be even more effective at what you intend, which seems in part to be to help others deal with their circumstances sanely.

    If you stop with the first two questions you miss out on the discovery that thoughts–not circumstances/reality–are the source of suffering. You also miss out on the turnarounds that lead you to your own truth. One of the videos that demonstrates The Work more fully (and tear-inducing effectively) is the one on “Prejudice” here: https://www.thework.com/watch.php?cat=watch&yid=m8vLJazT08o.

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5363
    SteveB
    Participant

    Ash, if you read just a bit of her stuff (again, Loving What Is is a good place to start, and a quick read), you might find that her reference to believing thoughts is more about realizing that it is the belief or the thought that causes the suffering. Realizing that doesn’t change reality or necessarily affect our actions, but (as I noted with regard to my personal experience) it might just help us to live sanely through those circumstances without worry, panic, or violence.

    The appeal of The Work for my personal sanity is paramount, while its prospective value for helping all those oblivious people out there is tantamount. I’m pointing to it as a possible means of addressing what you’re lamenting. When they begin (continue?) to fear the future and act on that fear (as opposed to the knowledge of their situation–there’s a difference), how (again, not ‘what’, but ‘how’) do you suggest we help them? Presuming that it will require sacrifices pretends to know the future–their future–as well as what they need. The Work helps people learn to think clearly without getting into their business. I don’t know of a better gift to people.

    In my experience the truth doesn’t have a price. (The rest of your “Perhaps…” paragraph is a series of straw men.)

    As for “our best”, I’m already doing my best, always have been. I suspect that’s true for everyone. Believing that they/we are not (which is what I was getting at with my question) is a lie.

    As Katie also says, don’t believe me, test it for yourself–“judge your neighbor, write it down, ask four questions, and turn it around”. It’s that simple. For me it’s become almost automatic and instantaneous (but only when it does. 😉 )

    in reply to: Everything Won't Be Alright #5355
    SteveB
    Participant

    “It is only when we confront the umcomfortable truths of our situation in this world that we will be able to become the best we can possibly be.”

    The truth isn’t uncomfortable–in my experience it’s the only thing that IS comfortable.

    I recommend The Work of Byron Katie to everyone. While it might seem like just another New Age pitch along the lines that Ash describes above, I’ve found it to be the only thing that helped me find the clarity to live without worry while I prepare for a future very (but not totally) different from our past, and therefore to do so more effectively, for myself, my family, and community. All else is a story, usually a stressful one. Her book, Loving What Is, is a good place to start, as are videos on her web site, http://www.thework.com.

    The Work isn’t about the ‘what’, it’s about the ‘how’. Four years ago, by reading LWI, I learned (overnight, literally) how to find my own truth and freedom, and I can now see how perfect life has always been, even when I argue/d with reality.

    ‘We need to become the best we can possibly be.’ Is that true?

    in reply to: India Power Outage: The Shape of Things to Come? #5205
    SteveB
    Participant

    Nicole, do you really mean that the current grid model is “under threat”, or would something like “extremely fragile” or “failing” be a more accurate description? If it is under threat, what threatens it?

    in reply to: The People Are Guaranteed to Lose #5163
    SteveB
    Participant

    And there we have the normalcy bias in all its splendor. Thanks, m111ark.

    As I’ve heard said, it’s not paranoia when someone really is following you.

    That said, Barnhardt wouldn’t be my first choice to share with a friend or family member. Of course, by the time I got around to doing so (after they rationalized why they could ignore whoever or whatever I pointed them to, say, TAE), it might be too late.

    in reply to: 350 Greek Tragedies in Athens in June Alone #5162
    SteveB
    Participant

    “Money has no value in and of itself; it derives that value from the world it rolls in. Take away that world, and you take away the value.”

    Promising opening and an accurate followup. It’s that second clause in the middle that shows just how tenacious the use of money is in affecting our thinking. That clause is a lie. Money has no value, derived or otherwise. That’s the long-standing, unquestioned lie that led, ultimately, to those suicide attempts.

    in reply to: Collapse Is Humanity Adapting To Its Own Presence #5100
    SteveB
    Participant

    I suspect that it will be more worthwhile to not look at “civilization” as a whole, but at what it’s composed of. What’s the distinction between society and civilization? What’s necessary? What’s not? I’ve shared my perspective on money. I haven’t seen other suggestions beyond what might fall into the category of rules (e.g., laws and policies) and new ways of thinking or living. But how will either be enacted to a meaningful degree when the incentives remain in place? Even if some subset of the population changes how they live and operate, those who continue believing we need an “economy” will move us further toward collapse.

    in reply to: Here's The Science That Can Solve The Crisis #5087
    SteveB
    Participant

    So giving paper in exchange for food=”offering value for value”?

    Our longtime use of money has influenced our thinking to this extent. We can’t see what we’re doing with our own hands.

    in reply to: Terrifying Study of Planetary Collapse #5053
    SteveB
    Participant

    Lucas, just look at your premise: most people aren’t sane. As Byron Katie has pointed out, we don’t typically question our thoughts and tend to believe those that aren’t true. Learning to do so is easy–even kids can do it–but it will take some time.

    In the meantime, given that much of our insanity is tied to our beliefs about money and our use of it, I’m suggesting that we end its use (and all those untrue thoughts) and become just that much saner.

    in reply to: Permanent Growth = Permanent Crisis #5052
    SteveB
    Participant

    Gravity, you’ve hit on one of the main reasons why ending the use of money worldwide is perhaps our only viable option (the other primary reason being that its continued use will “motivate” us to destroy our ecosphere.) Removing the “econo” from “economotive leverage” also removes most of the leverage, leaving us to live–without that most ubiquitous of arbitrary motivations.

    in reply to: Lessons From the Full Tilt Ponzi #5022
    SteveB
    Participant

    Prof, while that may be an accurate simplification of the scenario Ash related, it’s an oversimplification of the lesson that he was conveying.

    in reply to: President Rousseff's Monster #5021
    SteveB
    Participant

    Steve, it’s not funny–neither ‘ha ha’ nor ‘strange’. What’s strange is that we have believed for so long that it’s necessary. It’s not.

    in reply to: LIBOR, Lies and Derivatives #4933
    SteveB
    Participant

    See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE.

    Saving our societies doesn’t necessarily require saving our economies. In other words, we don’t need to play the rigged game (“the economy”) in order to live, not even–and most significantly–at the species level. The use of money leverages the impact of lies (among other things).

    in reply to: Jeff Rubin and Oil Prices Revisited #4737
    SteveB
    Participant

    Viscount–the markets are illusory. Asking TAE (or Nicole in particular) to frame things within an illusion would help whom?

    Taking that a step further (back), money–exchange, really–is illusory. Framing things within that illusion is the biggest lie we tell ourselves. (Of course, there’s probably something about death that tops it.) It just happens to be the biggest picture frame most people can see. Daniel Quinn wrote of ‘stepping back’ to Mars in order to see humanity from the outside. It’s a useful thought experiment.

    in reply to: Europe Is Sliding Back Into Its Own Past #4612
    SteveB
    Participant

    “The best we can do is opt out. But even that is getting more and more difficult. And maybe even one day will be illegal.”

    deflationista, opting out individually has little impact. I’m referring to a tipping point change in which the game is ended due to lack of players. You correctly note that it’s not just money but exchange that is at the root. We can end even that. It’s just as arbitrary and unnecessary as money.

    in reply to: Europe Is Sliding Back Into Its Own Past #4606
    SteveB
    Participant

    Pointing toward violence (to receive: “the streets”, or give: “the right to bear arms”) misses the simpler, less confrontational, and more permanent option of ending the use of money. No need to fight, just stop playing the game. Absent money, greed would have much less leverage and would likely fade over time as a mental construct.

    in reply to: Peak Oil: A Dialogue with George Monbiot #4563
    SteveB
    Participant

    HZB, the lack of will is related to our societal use of money. If and when we realize that ending its use is in our overall best interest, our will will follow.

    in reply to: Then and Now : Sunshine and Eclipse #1066
    SteveB
    Participant

    Nicole, is Canada the “we” in your conclusion, or are you referring to us readers in some way? And if it’s Canada, do you mean the government, the people (that is, as individuals and families, not as citizens who ostensibly control the government, but perhaps as investors), businesses, or all of the above?

    in reply to: The Asymptotes of Power #1065
    SteveB
    Participant

    Maybe a better way of putting my previous comment would be that “challenges to the ruling class” might more accurately be worded as “challenges for the ruling class”.

    On another subject, I wonder if Bichler and Nitzan have an undivulged basis for the claim that approaching the asymptote of capitalist power in the 1930s and 1940s triggered a systemic crisis, or if that’s an unsubstantiated interpretation of the correlation.

    in reply to: The Asymptotes of Power #1064
    SteveB
    Participant

    “The present situation is remarkably similar – and, in our view, so are the challenges to the ruling class.”

    Interesting use of the term “challenges”. It’s not used in the sense of an external challenge to, but more in the sense of obstacles to success. I find it interesting that it’s framed that way rather than from an objective perspective or that of the non-elite.

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #718
    SteveB
    Participant

    Ash,

    In systems terms, property is more like a stock (sits there), while money is more like a flow (comes and goes). As such, they have different qualities. Without explicitly critiquing those qualities, focusing on property would only tangentially address money, and vice versa. One of the more important and relevant qualities is the purposes for which they’re respectively used, which are quite different. The fact that they can be exchanged for each other might give the impression that they’re interchangeable in even more ways. They’re not.

    One thing that money does through our use of it is influence how we think about various things, including the future. To whatever extent the use of property does likewise it’s not as frequent, pervasive, or extensive.

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #679
    SteveB
    Participant

    Ash, it’s not clear from that account or the rest of the Wikipedia entry that they didn’t use money during that time. Do you know for sure whether they did?

    That also reminds me that I disagree with your earlier comment that a critique of private property is essentially a critique of money (nor do I think the reverse is necessarily true.) Not explicitly examining the influences of money use would overlook a big part of the picture.

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #674
    SteveB
    Participant

    Or maybe I was the one mixing behavior and psychology in my question—or we both did it.

    In any case, I think that not being explicit about the financial aspect of the scenario painted in the intro to this area will likely limit consideration of ways to achieve your professed objective of preserving the fabric of society (to the extent that doing so is popularly desirable.)

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #673
    SteveB
    Participant

    Ash, I’d appreciate any references to modern moneyless societies and their intellectual foundations. Thanks.

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #672
    SteveB
    Participant

    ashvin post=254 wrote:
    That’s an unequivocal yes. These are behaviors that are exhibited throughout many different social species, and humans cannot circumvent nature by ridding themselves of money. Mutual knowledge, specifically, is simply the existence of a certain state of awareness about what other individuals are aware of.

    So is it behavior or psychology? It seems you’re mixing them.

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #662
    SteveB
    Participant

    ashvin post=254 wrote: The very idea of large-scale moneyless societies was borne out of theories about how economic activity occurs in the first place.

    Are you referring to something in particular? In my case, the idea came to me from nowhere in particular, at least not any economic theory source.

    in reply to: Occupy Movements of Mutual Knowledge #660
    SteveB
    Participant

    Ash, I was commenting on the juxtaposition of logic and economics (i.e., non-logic). Why would a moneyless society have a field of economics? Logistics I could see. At least in no-money, no-value-balancing world that I think would be possible and preferable, I don’t see a need or role for what we currently call economics. (By the way, I’m currently reading Dr. Steve Keen’s Debunking Economics—Revised and Expanded Edition: The Naked Emperor Dethroned? Have you read it or the original edition?)

    On a related topic, and for lack of a better place to comment on it, the use of “expansion” and “contraction” without “financial” as a modifier raises the question of whether the psychology being discussed in the Lifeboat/Psychology area intro is one that applies only to a world that uses money. As such it’s not as “big picture” as it might be. When describing the past or current reality, that would be valid. But for projections of future events, a truly big picture would consider (or at least acknowledge) possibilities not bounded by history or the status quo.

    I wonder whether the behaviors described (e.g., human herding) would likely hold true (and/or to the same degree) in a world that didn’t use money. And perhaps most importantly, how would trust be different?

    in reply to: Why So Angry? #651
    SteveB
    Participant

    Certitude going on fatalism.

    in reply to: Why So Angry? #650
    SteveB
    Participant

    John,

    “The question of how something is organized must arise at the outset, because there are people who have a skillset to selfishly use any system. We see that with money.”

    Yes, and that’s why I’m suggesting that we stop using money. Part of my thesis is that we would see that far less if we did so.

    You write with a great certitude. Sounds like your mind is made up. Best wishes.

Viewing 40 posts - 201 through 240 (of 248 total)