Debt Rattle August 4 2021


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    Mister Roboto

    {/reads page 3 of the comments today} Man, the not-entirely-rational astrology-observer in me is going to be so freaking glad when this Saturn-Uranus Square loosens up about mid-month!

    On a more serious note, this longish article in The Atlantic by David Brooks about how the urban “creative class” is undermining itself is an informative read. Towards the end of it, he breaks down Team Blue and Team Red each into three substrata ranging from the most powerful and influential to the least. What the top two strata of “Team Blue” need to understand pronto is that they are losing all the remaining loyalty of just enough members of lowest stratum, the “caring class”, that they might find themselves very out in the cold in terms of political representation come the very near future.


    @ Deflationista

    Thank you for your very long post.
    I understand where you are coming from. I was raised Mormon, but when my very messed up marriage led me to realize the religion was bogus, I had to leave it and then tell my family…who saw me turning from the religion as a tragedy. I have spent 15 years learning how to communicate with people I love, but who have a collection of closely held beliefs that differ radically from my own.

    Whenever you enter the room of a group of people who have been “in community” and conversing about specific topics for a long time, you are going to find some clear consensuses and points of view that are, well, let’s say “unique” to that particular group.

    The tendency for the person who shows up late (or, perhaps simply after being away for a while,) is to see these consensuses and make a quick judgment about these points of view and the people and how these views were arrived at. However, if the goal is to communicate, this mental shortcut is an impediment to authentic communication.

    In your essay yesterday you throw out accusations which reveal your lack of understanding of those who have been using this forum extensively to analyze and understand the Covid nightmare that engulfs us all. You suggest that our minds have become subordinated to right-wing memes, that we are lapping up every bit of “anti-Vaxxer” propaganda, that we are not utilizing critical thinking skills…(implying that your position, by contrast, *is* using critical thinking skills. A rather large conceit.)

    I recognize that there is a big “mainstream” narrative that suggests that those who don’t want the vaccine are far-right wackos, inveterate “anti-vaxxers” who deny all vaccines…but in my personal, lived experience, that is not the case.

    So far, EVERY PERSON but ONE that I know in person (not thru TAE), either recently, or extended family, that has chosen not to take the vaccine has made that decision because they ALREADY SURVIVED A COVID INFECTION and have durable immunity. (P.S. they are all white.) I do not state that my natural immunity is durable just ‘cause someone here on TAE said so, but rather because I have read the medical studies published on the subject (and lay explanations of said studies.) Most of the studies I found thanks to TAE posters — which saved me a lot of time searching for them on my own — and Doc Robinson here at TAE has clarified my understanding of some of the fine points of immunity — all was information I could have found elsewhere, but TAE ends up being a short cut.

    “Walking freely in society living on the immunity provided by others, kinda like the welfare leeches they like to complain about.” This assertion falls completely flat when faced with the many, many unvaccinated to Covid, post-Covid survivors, who have sterilizing immunity, who are contributing to “herd immunity” while the Covid-vaccinated are passing Covid around.

    I’m pretty familiar with “anti-vax” views. My sister has held those views for a decade or more. We’ve had several in depth discussions…from those discussions I discovered that my sister had a broader and deeper understanding of human immunity than I did. My kids have received all of their typical childhood vaccinations, but I have realized that the current vaccine schedule seems more rapid than necessary, that it is wise to research a vaccine to understand the risks/benefits before getting jabbed, and that Big Pharma is reaping huge profits from vaccinations in general.

    I also noticed that a lot of anti-vax hype is fear-mongering that tends to be large on theories and slim on facts. I have found this in many other subjects as well — including the “official” Covid narrative. Whenever I run across this type of hype an alert goes off in my mind, and I start looking for the most solid, fact based sources that I can find.

    “That’s because Bill is attempting to depopulate the planet, so he and Fauci developed the virus, and the vaccine to cure it, so that they could not only kill some people right off, but then track the survivors through microchips floating in the covid vaccines. Never mind that both … carry a fucking cell phone everywhere they go and have been tracked by the NSA for like 20 years now.”

    Hrm…well, there is some pretty good evidence that Bill + buddies would *like* to reduce the population. Is the Covid pandemic and/or the mass vaccination campaign a means to this end? IDK. I have not seen any “smoking gun” evidence. Just circumstantial evidence.

    Is the Covid pandemic and/or the mass vaccination campaign designed to remove liberties, and make it easier for the population to be controlled? Well, “the proof is in the pudding” and since removing liberties and creating passes that govern human locomotion IS what is happening, it is pretty fair to say that these actions are either by Covid design or were planned and just waiting for the right disaster to enable them.

    It seems that most of your essay is a rant. I’ve dropped a few rants here myself in the past year. Others rant as well. Rants are generally a means to vent emotion. I’m guessing that you are venting here at TAE as a proxy because there isn’t a safe way to vent directly at “Kristen and Karen.”

    Myself, I lost my liberal religious community to Covid. They don’t want to meet in person until the vaccine makes everyone safe from Covid. (I have no idea how they are digesting the news that the vaccine doesn’t prevent/diminish passing Covid from person to person.). I’ve been publicly shamed as an anti-vaxxer for not being the only performer masked, the only Covid survivor in a sea of vaccinated folks. I tire of friends parroting the CDC line that I should get at least one vaccine dose…which would confer no social benefit. (Yes, I’m aware a single dose would boost my antibodies…but there is no evidence that I need such a boost.)

    It’s a mad, mad world.
    TAE is an island of respite for me. You are welcome to rest here as well…but don’t expect me to convert to your views…I don’t expect you to convert to mine.

    madamski cafone

    “Actually cosco, I was responding to Bill7. But I’m glad I’m gaining some traction with you. Study on but please, spare us the detailed analyses.”

    I can’t help it, Archie: I’m fascinated by what people gossip about me openly in a public forum, Archie. Enlightened self-interest or masochism? Please feel free to provide us with a detailed analysis. Or just continue gossiping about me in public right in front of me. I don’t mind. It’s less than pleasant but you fellows seem to enjoy it so much, I just kinda feel compelled to… watch. I’ll try to keep the heavy breathing down.

    No, I’m not on meds except ample cannabis at times, like now, when for three days I have mostly looked like this:


    I can’t wait to see what kind remarks are made about that image. Whatevs. That’s me, although that image is from ’17-’18. The view from where I sit and watch is amazing, just amazing. I learn a lot.

    People realy love to pick on people, I’ve noticed. I noticed it in grammar school. Stand out in a way that isn’t charismatic in a way they want to be associated with, they’ll peck at you. Always amazed to see how persistent the behavior is:

    The fog of social war


    Smearing the messinger is the best hope for those on the wrong side of a disagreement. The worming paste you refer to has won a Nobel prize and saved many from river blindness and parasitic infections of different kinds. If you look at records of areas in the world who are using Ivermectin, you will see how effective it is. Your posts are sleazy and manipulative.
    Madamski is well able to take care of herself. I speak for myself. But I think you are a troll. Whoever recruited you seems to be sending others with the same m.o. Try making some money washing dishes or doing something else useful.

    Mister Roboto

    Whoever recruited you seems to be sending others with the same m.o.

    Are you referring to other websites on the Internet? I’m asking out of curiosity because my own Internet travels aren’t as broad as some other people’s. It probably was a little daffy of me to imply that dee might have been sent here by the CDC, but I was being most facetious. My guess is that what’s happening is that the official Covid narrative is experiencing quite a bit of push-back lately on account of how increasingly authoritarian it is becoming, and so of course at some point, the push-back will run into counter-push-back, however unctuous and disingenuous it may be. That’s what I meant when I said it was inevitable that the likes of dee would show up at some point. It’s just “the nature of the beast” that is our modern Interwebz. (Not to mention human life in general!)

    madamski cafone

    HAven’t finished pheonix voice’s post and already am awed. So well done.


    Remember when this site might get ten comments on a big day- before all the sponsored content arrived?




    You are a mighty voice. A reasoned voice. And a stern voice.

    I really appreciate your views. Thank you.

    Figmund Sreud

    Next pandemic on its way? Dunno, … though Dr. Richard Fleming recently commented on following that it just might be.

    SARS-CoV-2 spike protein interactions with amyloidogenic proteins: Potential clues to neurodegeneration




    I can see sitting around and getting wasted with you, laughing our asses off. But not here. Capito?

    madamski cafone

    Archie, I would much prefer it if you would please mind your own business, sir. You had a chance to ask nice, but no, you had to big-dog me. I would prefer you resume talking to other people about me or addressing the forum at large about me, if you absolutely must talk about me. But not to me, please. I’ve failed to learn anything from you in your attempts to engage with me or with others about me. But it seems to entertain you and others, so please carry on an it please ye, but expect to be ignored if you address me personally and directly.

    Which is not to say I won’t address remarks you make, just not you.

    And no, I could not possibly imagine getting sloshed with you. That sounds horrible to me. Word.

    those darned kids

    meanwhile, back on mars..


    Hint to establishment types: When your side acts like this, it means you’re losing. Expect more pushback.

    absolute galore

    “We are in two different worlds: mine; a worldview steeped in data and science and the shots called by a flawed CDC. His seems to be one that weaponizes the jargon of science, a world where “doing the research” is akin to diving down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.” Turns out not only are the unvaxxed screwing up the world, they are preventing this poor soul from getting screwed. Caution, adult content ahead, Huffpost style

    And the more vanilla First Person Hero Porn, also from the Huff Huff. Caution, contains no facts, data, or context. Only heroics. But all for naught–thanks to you and me, The War On Covid was lost.

    Mister Roboto

    @absolute galore: The truth is, I actually want to be shunned by people like that. I’m pretty much a largely self-reliant loner as it is, so I don’t need anybody’s love over the choices I make or where I come down socially and politically.


    Just wanted to circle back to Raul’s “Vaccines Don’t Work” post earlier this week.

    The CDC is not only clamoring for more vaccines, once full FDA approval is granted then the messaging might switch to Fauci’s grander vision. The timing of the article was this past spring. Apologies if redundant to some.

    madamski cafone

    “Turns out not only are the unvaxxed screwing up the world, they are preventing this poor soul from getting screwed.”


    Uh, I’ll pass, thank you very much.

    Covid life (just add masks and stir):



    More than I usually post, but Dr. Fauci is definitely looking like the Evil Mr. Rogers.


    And good old Wesley Snipes playing the role of the Coronavirus spawned in a lab by Fraudci.

    absolute galore

    Mr. Roboto wrote: @absolute galore: The truth is, I actually want to be shunned by people like that.

    Absolutely me too. Such a bizarre essay and such an unattractive person. Both essay writers live with complete blinders, totally unable to see beyond what they are fed. Can they not tell just by observing the messengers what shaky ground they are on? Look at the New Yorkers who were fawning over Cuomo. I guess he’s on his way to being an official dirtbag, but anybody with half a working BS detector already knew what he was. (How people can actually watch his doofus brother I have no I idea.) Do we see Fauci, Walenski, Biden, the CEOs of pharma companies, the tech titans, as having anything resembling true character?

    madamski cafone


    madamski cafone

    “Do we see Fauci, Walenski, Biden, the CEOs of pharma companies, the tech titans, as having anything resembling true character?”

    If anything, we see them as some kind of alien mtant.

    “And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.”

    ― William Gibson, Count Zero

    Same guy wrote, 30-some years later, has the elderly female police chief of The Peripheral’s 100 years-from-now kleptocratic post-Jackpot London, say something, concerning the uber-baddies they’ve apprehended, to the effect that, “They’re only human, like us. If we forget that we lose everything.”


    How many here just ran with it?

    During a Covid-19 press conference, NSW health offical Jeremy McAnulty ‘misspoke’ and inferred that all Covid patients in intensive care had been vaccinated when in fact none of them had been fully vaccinated. The video of the mistake has been widely shared on social media. A single post on one Australian page which regularly shares vaccination misinformation had more than 1,800 ‘interactions’, including almost 300 ‘shares’. In less regulated online spaces, the video has been shared globally among conspiracist groups. In US-based Telegram groups clips of the video have been seen tens of thousands of times across various groups. Some called it evidence the vaccine is ‘deadly gene therapy’ and ‘pure poison’. The Guardian also saw posts sharing the video in Telegram pages in Europe and the UK


    Doc Robinson – good find on the flu-COVID vaccine study. I really wonder if it is a matter of the number of times a person has been vaccinated (ie one time may not be that bad).
    I am wading thru Mikovits’ work and she makes a compelling case for the following:
    1. Many vaccines against viruses (flu, mmr, COVID) involve growing virus in animal (mouse tissue).
    2. This piece sounds astounding to me but here goes: the mouse tissue itself contains mouse viruses that also ends up in the vaccine. These viruses, when jumping from the mouse to a human, can mix with viruses in the vaccinated humans and create all kinds of health issues. When she tried to publish her work suggesting this, she ran into big trouble.
    3. What is utterly striking is the similarity among various “strange” ailments (long COVID, long Lyme, chronic fatigue). Mikovits suggests that they all have roots in exposure to contaminants in vaccines.
    Being in a high Lyme region I just read a book by a local ecology professor about her experience of long haul Lyme. What jumped out of the page for me was that she mentioned having been vaccinated for the flu for the past 20 years. Also what is baffling is that folks I know (mostly small organic farmers) generally do not vaccinate, get many tick bites,(I topped out at 10 in one day) and yet we are not getting Lyme. Why is this when estimates are that 30 percent or more of ticks carry Lyme and the related nasty illnesses?
    I will share more of Mikovits as I digest it but I do think she adds a dimension to the COVID story.
    I have not seen a good summary yet of this idea and Mikovits is hard to understand when I listened to an interview.

    those darned kids

    During a Covid-19 press conference,
    • er, fifteen minutes of fright, you mean.

    • oh, no, dystopiaville!

    health offical
    • [sick – hehehe, good one.]

    Jeremy McAnulty ‘misspoke’ and inferred that all Covid patients in intensive care had been vaccinated when in fact none of them had been fully vaccinated.
    • er, what about the other hospitals in the other places?

    The video of the mistake has been widely shared on social media.
    • good. these people stick their faces in our dinners everyday to tell us how awful it all is to be a happy human. tat for tit, i say.

    A single post on one Australian page which regularly shares vaccination misinformation
    • yep, we should only listen to miss information on fully fact-chequered media sources. she knows everything.

    had more than 1,800 ‘interactions’, including almost 300 ‘shares’.

    In less regulated online spaces,
    • not for long.

    the video has been shared globally among conspiracist groups.
    • enough with the clichés. it’s frickin’ annoying. let’s use some creativity, por favor.

    In US-based Telegram groups clips of the video have been seen tens of thousands of times across various groups.
    • good.

    Some called it evidence the vaccine is ‘deadly gene therapy’ and ‘pure poison’.
    • that’s dumb. some pollywog screwing up the night’s fifteen minutes of fright is nothing. sending my father to the hospital for 2 weeks is “pure poison”.

    The Guardian
    • hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    also saw posts sharing the video in Telegram pages in Europe and the UK
    • good.

    madamski cafone

    “How many here just ran with it?”

    I wanna be Clenis for a moment: define “it”. This one report? Out of ??? I honestly don’t remember.

    I do hope we’re providing good research material. I say that because I find it hard to think you take your arguments seriously as in convincing anyone here otherwise, so I’m inclined to think you’e some kind of meme-developer. Nifty title, huh? What do I know? Some people thought I was a woman for awhile. By their fruits ye shall know them, and all that.

    All grist for the systempunkt, says I.

    D Benton Smith

    I took someone’s advice and did the ol’ “due diligence” thing on Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz.

    I won’t rehash his backtrail details because, frankly, there are too many assholes in this world to waste time on every piece of shit that comes along. He’s a spook, a shill, a one-trick-pony hatchet man and a complete fraud . He is in no way an epidemiologist. He works in the School of Social Sciences, Media & Communication there at Wollonong U , and all 25 of his “published papers” are hit pieces on real scientists and/or cheerleading for Big Pharma . What a complete DICK ! The nicest thing you could say about Mr. Katz is that at least he’s moderately competent in the spy game . . . just not for our team.

    those darned kids

    “rehash his backtrail details”



    He works in the School of Social Sciences, Media & Communication there at Wollonong U


    I can’t find him under academic staff at UOW. One source says he is an epidemiologist working in chronic disease and is currently finishing his PhD at the University of Wollongong. I tried to find a better CV but came up empty handed. I am guessing he has never treated a single patient. I would rather trust guys like Kory and Yaron who have helped hundreds of patients than people who just read studies and criticize methodology. As Theodore Roosevelt said “It is not the critic who counts…The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by blood, and sweat and dust.”

    madamski cafone

    DBSmith & tdk:


    Ok. THAT was ad hominem of me. Flat out. But… ew….

    Doc Robinson

    Speaking of the potential interactions between flu vaccines and Covid-19 viruses…

    Despite the sales pitches and press releases of the drug companies, and the assurances of the FDA and CDC, there is much that is still unknown about the workings of the immune system with regards to Covid-19, influenza, and their vaccines.

    Just last week, a study was published which found some cross-reactive immune responses between influenza vaccines and Covid-19, but the responses were non-neutralizing. The researchers admit that the related mechanisms are “poorly understood.” For all they know, the dreaded ADE may still result from the vaccines.

    “Whether these non-neutralizing cross-reactive antibody responses have effector functions with a protective effect or lead to antibody-dependent disease enhancement of SARS-CoV-2 infection remains to be evaluated in further studies.”


    The spike protein of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is the foremost target for the designing of vaccines and therapeutic antibodies and also acts as a crucial antigen in the assessment of COVID-19 immune responses. The enveloped viruses; such as SARS-CoV-2, Human Immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1) and influenza, often hijack host-cell glycosylation pathways and influence pathobiology and immune selection. These glycan motifs can lead to either immune evasion or viral neutralization by the production of cross-reactive antibodies that can lead to antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) of infection. Potential cross-protection from influenza vaccine has also been reported in COVID-19 infected individuals in several epidemiological studies recently; however, the scientific basis for these observations remains elusive. Herein, we show that the anti-SARS-CoV2 antibody cross-reacts with the Hemagglutinin (HA) protein. This phenomenon is common to both the sera from convalescent SARS-CoV-2 donors and spike immunized mice, although these antibodies were unable to cross-neutralize, suggesting the presence of a non-neutralizing antibody response. Epitope mapping suggests that the cross-reactive antibodies are targeted towards glycan epitopes of the SARS-CoV-2 spike and HA. Overall, our findings address the cross-reactive responses, although non-neutralizing, elicited against RNA viruses and warrant further studies to investigate whether such non-neutralizing antibody responses can contribute to effector functions such as antibody-dependent cellular cytotoxicity (ADCC) or ADE.

    Non-neutralizing SARS CoV-2 directed polyclonal antibodies demonstrate cross-reactivity with the HA glycans of influenza virus
    International Immunopharmacology, 29 July 2021

    madamski cafone
    Doc Robinson

    In this study published last year, the “results suggest a potential protective effect of the influenza vaccine on COVID-19 mortality in the elderly population.”

    Influenza Vaccination and COVID19 Mortality in the USA

    madamski cafone

    Doc R: strictly anecdotal: guy who works in the local min-mart has a friend in the local gubmint health office’s pandemic etc. office, told him that the kind of flu shot he’d gotten should proitect him from covid. circa spring 2020.

    Doc Robinson

    I remember that anecdote from last year. As I recall it was a recombinant quadrivalent flu vaccine(?).

    Another study looked at people who got a covid test, and looked for a correlation between negative tests and flu vaccination status. I’m not so sure about this method, but they found “in patient who received the influenza vaccine, there was a significant reduction in the odds of testing positive for COVID-19 compared to those who did not receive the vaccine (odds ratio 0.82, 95% CI 0.73-0.92; P  < .001)”

    Impact of the influenza vaccine on COVID-19 infection rates and severity

    V. Arnold

    Formerly T-Bear
    Mad Amsky (+ tale) seems on the manic portion of their cycle. Probably can’t find the meds, deflationista hid them.

    LOL, nice one T-Bear…

    Mister Roboto

    I tend to think that whatever benefits come from standard flu-shots is not so much from the main component of the shot itself so much as it is the immune-system boosters they add to it. Ever since I started getting flu-shots, I stopped getting my annual winter head- or chest-cold. You can argue about whether or not that’s a good thing, but still, I can easily live without that joyous event coming around shortly before or after Xmas every year!


    Tsk, tsk….TAE.
    I rather remember bi-polar lunatic’s image with sock-mask from the last year.
    So fitting.
    “Enlightened TAE community”, with a few exceptions, apparently can’t have enough of him.
    Encouraged WES is probably half way into his dream novel writing.


    • Biden Admin To Make Vaccination Mandatory For All Active Duty Soldiers (PM)

    I don’t know why ….

    Maybe, its because, If a soldier or support contractor does not want the vaccine then they can’t work, and must resign
    Maybe, its because spittle is stronger than a bullet
    Maybe, its because they want to reduce the military budget
    Maybe, its because they want to bring the troops home to protect the homeland.
    Maybe, its because they think that the vaccine will protect the soldiers from getting covid
    Maybe, its because they think that the vaccine will prevent the soldiers from getting sick.
    Maybe, its because they want to give money to the med industrial complex

    I don’t know why ….

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