Reverse Engineer
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ilargi post=4053 wrote: Would if I knew how. theautomaticearth • at • gmail
Kunen I am pretty sure has a Merge function in the Admin menu. May not be easy to find though, dunno. We run SMF, so its not precisely the same.
Next best option I would do is Copy/Paste the responses in the original thread here into the new one, then delete the original thread. Not too many yet so not to difficult to do. This would keep it all together in the future.
RE
ilargi post=4042 wrote: Sarah and others,
Skip’s article has moved to the front page. Please submit your comments there.
Merge the topics Ilargi.
RE
ashvin post=3974 wrote: Is this censorship debate really continuing here??
….
So… can we get over this now?No, we can’t.
I gather you are ticked at Karpatok for talking trash on DD, and also here on TAE at some point in the past though I haven’t seen much here since I joined the Commentariat.
This is low temperature Napalm Ashvin. You wanna see Napalm, go back to where Surly and I both are refugees from, the commentariat of TBP. You yourself told me trash talk doesn’t bother you at the Poker Table or on the Basketball court, but apparently it does bother you.
Look, all you had to do was pull KKs posts which you thought were smokish and moved them out to another thread. If people aren’t interested in reading her rants, they won’t read them. However, to muzzle her with a BAN is low class beyond belief.
How come you can copy/paste all her rants from DD here? Because they are STILL up on the pages of DD. They aren’t CENSOREDthere like they are here. You can go ahead now on TAE and vilify her, but you do not allow her the same priviledge to vilify you here. That is a POWER PLAY my friend, the POWER OF ADMIN, the POWER OF GOD on a website. You wield it like a sledgehammer here when an adjustable wrench would have done just fine.
Banning members because they don’t like you and pitch some napalm your way is UNACCEPTABLE behavior from an Admin. It’s like a Parent with a Child throwing a temper tantrum taking the child and throwing her out of her 3rd story bedroom window. You gotta have a thicker skin than that if you are Parenting a website Ashvin.
RE
gezelle post=3950 wrote: RE, has it occured to you that your overt, used car salesman-like approach is actually turning people away from both your posts and the Diner itself?
No, that never occurred to me GZ…thank you for pointing that out though. 😛
Anyhow, Win Some, Lose Some. At least over on the Diner we don’t CENSOR posts and BAN members like Karpatok was here simply for speaking their minds and asking questions, or even just for being persistently annoying either.
RE
ilargi post=3947 wrote: no sleep at all about what other people feel or think about that.
RE, I see you have more comments now than anyone, in fact, over twice as much as even Ashvin has. Here’s suggesting that quantity is smothering quality in your case. Show some constraint please. I also don’t really like all the incessant links and other references to your own site, it starts to reek of blog whoring at some point, and nobody likes that smell. If you want to write something for TAE, send it to me, and I’ll consider posting it.
Ilargi, do you know the Retail Motto? “How do we do it? VOLUME!” I write a LOT. I SWAMP every website I ever have been allowed to post on, ALWAYS. Invariably also, this PISSES OFF the OPB Owner of the site, as clearly it has now pissed you off. Result of course in the end, the Doomstead Diner was born. However, I still enjoy going out and Trolling the web, and I don’t just hit on you (although TAE is a favorite of mine these days) I hit on Steve on EU and Gail on OFW also.
Far as “whoring” DD is concerned with links in my posts is concerned, I call that “plugging”. Anybody can jack any kind of link at all into a post if they know how BBcode works, so I do it all the time as a promotional tool.
Finally, I have quite enjoyed my chats with Ashvin both here and on DD, and the relationship we developed as well. You have now claimed your Big Dog Status as the TAE Admin-in-Chief, so fine there, but really most of what I write doesn’t even fit on TAE pages at all anyhow, so I just won’t bother submitting it here.
I will post in the comments for so long as you leave my posting priviledges up. However, don’t expect these keyboard fingers to slow down any. Fastest Gun on the Net. Have Keyboard, Will Travel
stoneleigh post=3944 wrote: In a year or so people will be calling my Pollyanna, because I’ll be telling them it’s not the end of the world, and that they can still keep putting one foot in front of the other if they don’t lose their heads. Such is life for contrarians.
Can I jump the line and call you a Pollyanna NOW Stoneleigh? 😉
Not the End of the World to be sure, just TEOTWAWKI.
I am not terrifically concerned here whether there is a Christian subtext to TAE or not, but I will say you did not answer the question posed. I mostly am concerned with free flow of ideas, and long as Karpatok’s posting rights are now valid again, I will stand down as Advocate for Karpatok and she can speak for herself.
You do good work Stoneleigh, keep it up. In fact keep up MORE of it. Your articles are too far and few between these days.
RE
agelbert post=3941 wrote: I agree with Golden Oxen.
I don’t see any problem with Ashvin’s quoting of scripture. Since when is quoting the book that has influenced most of our law and a great deal of literature including Shakespeare’s works as well as the basis for sound morality out of line?It’s not out of line. It is perfectly appropriate given the complex interrelationships involved between economics, ethics, morality etc.
What is innappropriate is to censor or disallow opposing commentary.
This has been the subject of some debate tonight on the Diner, and it appears some posts which were deleted have now been restored, from what I gather anyhow.
You can’t discuss these topics without the fundamental belief structure different people have beign brought into it. You can start talking about Natural Gas, then somebody brings up Stewardship of the Earth, then somebody else brings up Greed, then somebody else quotes from the Bible…you know how it goes by now.
No matter what side of this multifaceted polyhedra you are coming at this from, the calamity we ALL agree we are faced with here is positively BIBLICAL in its proportions. BIGGER than Biblical, since in those years there were not 7B people walking the Earth. So who could fault any Christian for looking to the Bible for answers? I certainly do not.
What I DO fault people for is CENSORSHIP. If you are going to write your spin, you MUST let opposing viewpoints have a fair opportunity to do the same and challenge you. IMHO, your best course of action is to be Open and Honest about all you believe to be true. It is ALL on the Table here now folks. This is the Big One. The Final Battle Between Good & Evil for All the Marbles.
Stand Tall! Stand up for what you BELIEVE in. Be Honest and forthright. This is what the Banksters do NOT do. Do not make the same mistake of hiding the truth you believe in and standing tall for it.
SecularAnimist post=3932 wrote:
I’m what you would call a cultural doomer but humanity optimist;) Hell, it was the only way I could snap out of my nihilistic fatalism.
Yet another well composed Rant of your keyboard SA.
Can I ask you again to reformat all of this stuff into an Article so I can Publish it on the Diner Blog?
RE
agelbert post=3905 wrote: Ashin wrote
It is an embrace the the wetiku that RE mentioned. It is a lie that covers a LOT of territory including mechanistic reductionism (the basis of the scientific method).Credit where it is due, that was Secular Animist who wrote about Wetiku, not me.
RE
SecularAnimist post=3896 wrote: [quote=Reverse Engineer post=3887]
No, the problem with homo sapiens has nothing to do with our “nature”, intelligence or lack thereof.
While I agree that a large part of our problem is Greed and a lack of Stewardship of Mother Earth, the fact is that Exponential Growth of the population is the result of conquest over Disease and Industrial Ag processes which produce copious amounts of food from Oil. Both the conquest over microorganism predators and the food apparatus are the results of Human Intelligence and Ingenuity.
Aynhow, if you would flesh this post and your perspective out a bit more, I think it would make a good Feature Article on the Diner Blog.
RE
rlmrdl post=3885 wrote: To be fair RE, every species loots its environment, using all of the available resources as fast as it can, then collapsing. Every single species, every single time.
Only when the species is Top of the Food chain and has no external checks and balances on population expansion.
The problem for Homo Sapiens is that we were simply TOO SMART and too successful wiping out anything that predates on us, including many microorganisms.
However, wiping them out was very energy intensive overall and they are poised to make a Comeback here with a vengeance as sewage systems fail, wonder drugs become unavailable and new variants of anti-biotic resistant bacteria are selected for.
The only question to be answered is whether the human species is smarter than yeast in a wine vat.
So far the answer is no and time has run out to find an alternative answer.
I think the question has already been answered, since we already appear to have passed 11:59PM on Albert Bartlett’s Exponential Growth Clock.
The only question I see as still open is whether this results in an Extinction Level Event or just a vast knockdown of the population like the Deer on St. Matthews Island.
If it just results in a knockdown to say the 500M level of the Georgia Guidestones, then there is probably a good deal of resource left for the Illuminati to run a smaller version of the current meme for quite some time.
If it results in a knockdown to say 1M Human Souls living a Paeolithic lifestyle, we probably can continue onward until the Sun goes Red Giant.
Of course, none of us will likely see this question answered from this side of the Great Beyond.
See You on the Other Side.
Now there are many possible reasons and culprits for this, from the folly of perpetual growth itself, to globalization, to destroying a nation’s manufacturing base and betting on a “service economy”, to the inevitable demise of every empire in history. All these factors have played their respective roles in the grand drama the graphs lay bare before our eyes.
You neglected to mention the principle reason, hitting the Local Peak Oil production here in the FSofA in around 1970. Thereafter, the only way to produce the Illusion of Growth was to go into debt for it.
As Steve from Virginia often points out, Industrial process and fuel wastage never pay their own way, but as long as you do have plenty of your own cheap fuel to burn and waste you can do it without going into debt. Soon as you start to need to BUY the fuel from somebody else to waste, you start racking up the debt.
No doubt, Corruption in the world of Finance has exacerbated the underlying problem, but of course the reason for that is nobody could get filthy rich if they actually acknowledged the underlying issues. masking it with debt though made a whole generation of Pigmen filthy, FILTHY rich. All you needed to do was design a new Debt Instrument and sell it to somebody, the bigger the better preferably. if you were a mortgage broker, you sold mortgage debt to J6P, but this was small potatoes compared to the Big Boys who sold the Debt of entire Nations.
This isn’t America? I disagree. From the day the FSofA was founded and Alexander Hamilton sold out to the European Banksters, Amerika has always been about THEFT. Theft from the natives who got here first, theft by the military Smedley Butler wrote about, theft by the robber barons who built the Railroads and Standard Oil. The only problem now is there is nothing left to steal.
RE
bshirt post=3876 wrote: Wow!
Seriously, I’m blown away by this article as it hits the nail on the head HARD. Simply a great, great read that I’m grateful for.
It’s a damn tough call what to do when pushed in a corner. “Peace, love, dope” sounds Hunky Dory until you start starving. Or even before that with the thrilling, delicious thoughts of stringing up banksters, lawyers & politicians. Yummmmmm….oh boy.
Again, I really enjoyed it and most sincere thanks to all involved.
From my end of the debate, thanks BS.
Also, this post now brings posting in the thread here to Triple digits!
There is even more and continuing apace over on the Doomstead Diner
RE
Patrick post=3866 wrote: RE there’s a problem when you argue by metaphor or analogy in that, in this case, neither poker nor chess are an exact fit for our situation. And it is around the edges that the analogy falls down. The problem with arguing that morality must be put aside in order to win and then be picked up once the battle’s over is that, once discarded, morality and ethics are rarely if ever picked up again.
I pointed out this problem in my commentary:
RE wrote: This debate here is of course cluttered up with many arguments about morality and ethics, and because of that developing a Winning Strategy for the Game here, Poker or Chess is quite impossible. Neither game takes morals and ethics into consideration, so they are not good metaphors to use as long as that is part of the argument.
Far as the difficulty of Rebooting a Moral Structure once the old one goes Blue Screen of Death, agreed that is not an easy task and doesn’t happen overnight either. The issue here with current morality is it has ALREADY been put aside by Black. They are not playing by the Rules. Their Knights aren’t limited to 2 squares up 1 square over, anytime they like they can go 2 squares up and 2 over or 3:1 or in fact whatever the fuck they want to do. Given this FACT, you gotta pitch out your rules also.
Having said that I do believe lopping off the head of the monster’s quite justified. The problem is identifying the monster.
See the “And Justice for All” clip. I don’t think it is all that hard to identify the monster here.
“The Son of a Bitch is GUILTY and should go STRAIGHT to Fucking Jail! He RAPED her and he’d like to do it again! He TOLD me so!”
The TEPCO and BP Executives tell you this every day. And they’ll keep right on Raping Mother Earth until SOMEBODY gets REALLY FUCKING PISSED OFF here.
RE
Over in the Parallel Thread on the Diner, in response to my Holmes & Watson article, Watson dropped on a clip from the film Se7en. In it, Watson identifies my character as Brad Pitt, his as Morgan Freeman, and the Illuminati as Kevin Spacey.
I’m going to paste across this aspect of the debate from the Diner. Pain in the ass reformatting all of it, but worthwhile in this case I think.
First from Watson, responding to the Holmes & Watson article.
RE wrote:
I turned this one into a Feature Article on the Blog, Holmes and Watson. Added a fairly lengthy Intro to it as well to explain the dynamic I see going down here between Ashvin and myself.Ash, you are Watson now forever more on the pages of DD. 😉
RE
That works. But if we want to get QUITE specific with our cinematic references here, given the deep strains of Christian spirituality running through our debate, we’d have to go with the movie Se7en. Remember the box scene?? You are Brad Pitt, and I am Morgan Freeman (Kevin Spacey is the Illuminati, i.e. Satan). Give me the gun, RE, give me the gun…
Spoiler alert for those who missed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giVzxyoclE&feature=player_embedded
Response to this from Holmes:
Ashvin wrote:
That works. But if we want to get QUITE specific with our cinematic references here, given the deep strains of Christian spirituality running through our debate, we’d have to go with the movie Se7en. Remember the box scene?? You are Brad Pitt, and I am Morgan Freeman (Kevin Spacey is the Illuminati, i.e. Satan). Give me the gun, RE, give me the gun…
Good scene selection there Watson. You should drop it in the Favorite Film clips archive also.
Thing is here, Brad Pitt seems to have a lot of moral anguish over pumping Kevin Spacey full of lead. Why? I gather from the clip (I did not see the movie) that Spacey Decapitated Pitt’s wife and killed the unborn baby at the same time. Seems to me like that warrants a lead injection.
Far as Morgan is concerned, what is his motivation here? To keep Brad from going to Jail for killing Kevin? The idea here being we should wait for the “Law”, aka Da Goobermint to punish Kevin? What if the “Law” isn’t doing that? Are we supposed to wait for God to drop down here and administer Justice? What?
RE
Watson replies with this:
RE wrote:
Good scene selection there Watson. You should drop it in the Favorite Film clips archive also.Thing is here, Brad Pitt seems to have a lot of moral anguish over pumping Kevin Spacey full of lead. Why? I gather from the clip (I did not see the movie) that Spacey Decapitated Pitt’s wife and killed the unborn baby at the same time. Seems to me like that warrants a lead injection.
Far as Morgan is concerned, what is his motivation here? To keep Brad from going to Jail for killing Kevin? The idea here being we should wait for the “Law”, aka Da Goobermint to punish Kevin? What if the “Law” isn’t doing that? Are we supposed to wait for God to drop down here and administer Justice? What?
Basically, Spacey was going around killing people who committed one of the “seven deadly sins” (which are really just a fiction of the Catholic Church in terms of a separate category of sins). In that way, he was kind of like an Orkin Man himself, allegedly doing God’s work against these sinners. But it becomes clear that he’s actually a lot more like Satan… trying to convince others that he IS God, and trying to undermine God’s word by testing the Faith of Brad Pitt. He is a very clever and deceptive character.
In my view, Morgan is concerned with the fact that, if Pitt executes Spacey right there, then the Devil has won by definition. Pitt would have abandoned God to satisfy his need for vengeance for his wife and unborn child (which, ironically, is a deadly sin). Now that I think about it, I’m not sure who fits the Orkin Man role better here, Pitt or Spacey. Pitt is only killing one truly evil person who has killed others (or perhaps one person who was inhabited by an evil spirit), but the Devil in Spacey kills a bunch of innocent people who have only committed what he considers to be sins worthy of capital punishment, as well as the wife and child just to accomplish his ultimate goal…
I don’t know, tough call.
Holmes pulls out the Heavy Artillery: And Justice for All
Ashvin wrote:
In my view, Morgan is concerned with the fact that, if Pitt executes Spacey right there, then the Devil has won by definition. Pitt would have abandoned God to satisfy his need for vengeance for his wife and unborn child (which, ironically, is a deadly sin). Now that I think about it, I’m not sure who fits the Orkin Man role better here, Pitt or Spacey. Pitt is only killing one truly evil person who has killed others (or perhaps one person who was inhabited by an evil spirit), but the Devil in Spacey kills a bunch of innocent people who have only committed what he considers to be sins worthy of capital punishment, as well as the wife and child just to accomplish his ultimate goal…I don’t know, tough call.
Tough Call? OMFG. Its this kind of insane logic that got us into this mess.
Spacey doesn’t “Win” when Pitt fills him full of Lead, he LOSES. He’s DEAD. Dead=Lose here.
Imagine if Brad hands over the Gun to Morgan, and they cuff Kevin and take him off to the Courthouse. If this is today’s world, Kevin hires the best lawyers and Walks, just like all the Banksters do. This is Justice? This is a good result for Brad, who had the opportunity before he foolishly hands his weapon over to asshole Morgan to send Spacey straight to fucking HELL where he belongs?
THIS is why Banksters and CEOs can go around killing not just a few folks like Kevin did, but MILLIONS of them. They know they can GET AWAY with it because jackasses like Morgan are too namby pamby to hand out a worthwhile Punishment that fits the Crime. The worst thing the Bankster faces is maybe a few years in a cushy Federal Pen for White Collar Scumbags.
You gotta get your head screwed on straight here Ashvin. Kevin is a SCUMBAG who DESERVES TO DIE. Brad did not Lose when he filled Kevin full of Lead, he WON. It would have been a better Win if he found Kevin BEFORE his wife got decapitated, but this was the next best thing afterward. Letting that scumbag LIVE is LOSING.
If I was St. Peter at the Pearly Gates and Brad had let Kevin live, I would slam the doors shut on him. He does not deserve Everlasting Glory in the Kingdom of Heaven. He had the CHANCE to Exterminate some Evil and passed it up. This is not Everlasting Glory meritable.
Reminds me of the closing scene in “And Justice For All”. Classic Pacino.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0oo-gF3bwFI
So where do YOU stand on this one? Should Brad(RE/Holmes) have handed his Gun over to Morgan (Asvin/Watson) and let Kevin (Illuminati/Bankster) live?
Inquiring minds want to know.
RE
Watson often likes to use metaphors from Poker when analysing the collapse dynamic, since Poker is his Game. Simlarly, I like to use Chess metaphors, since Chess is my game. So I will explore this a bit with this post.
In some regards Poker might be considered the better metaphor, if you accept that there is an element of chance involved in all the decisions being made along the way in the game. If you take into account such things as Natural Disasters like the Sendai Quake or Katrina, you can make the case that some aspects of the collapse are governed by chance.
However, on the Financial level and structural societal level of building an Industrial Culture, no chance was ever involved in that. A series of Moves were made early on in the game to gain a much stronger position for Black here, Black being a representation for the Illuminati/Elite of society. White representing J6P is very much backed into a corner here now and Black controls most of the board.
Conventional tactics can no longer play a Winning Game for White. However, White still does have a few Pieces in play like the OWS Castle, the Boys in Black Pajamas (Anarchists) Knights, and Bishop Bloggers, handling the Keyboard is Mightier than the AR-15 aspect of the Propaganda battle. White also has many more Pawns on the board than Black does, and remember in this Chess game you aren’t limited to 64 Squares and only 8 Pawns. Much bigger Numbers we are dealing with here, but still it is not a random game of Chance, rather a game of Strategy and Position.
What is White to do here? Given the Numbers differential, Sacrificing a few Pawns likely can recapture a portion of the Board. this can give the Castle of OWS room to maneuver, and give the Boys in Black Pajamas Anarchist Knights cover from which to operate. Together, they can hopefully open a Column to Advance a Pawn to the 8th Rank and Queen that Pawn.
Once White has a new Queen on the Board, the advantage that Black has here is substantially reduced. Again though, since we are working with much greater numbers and a Global chessboard, you are really talking about many Pawns being Sacrificed in order for a few Queens to be made in the game.
In Chess or in Poker, there is only one Goal, which is to WIN. No concern in either game about Ethics, Morals or an Afterlife. If you clutter up your betting in a Poker game with thoughts about the fact if you Bankrupt one of the other players his kids might go Hungry, its going to affect your betting. You can’t do that if you want to Win the Game. Simlarly in Chess, if you feel sorry for the other player because he is a bit dimwitted and makes some stupid moves, if you let him go and don’t capitalize on those errors, you also don’t win. You see an Error, BAM you hit him with everything you got and capitalize on the error.
This debate here is of course cluttered up with many arguments about morality and ethics, and because of that developing a Winning Strategy for the Game here, Poker or Chess is quite impossible. Neither game takes morals and ethics into consideration, so they are not good metaphors to use as long as that is part of the argument.
In the final analysis here for me though, because of the nature of the collapse, morals and ethics are becoming ever less a part of the game we play on the World Stage. Clearly, the Illuminati are not sticking to any Code of Law here, so if J6P continues to stick to some abstract set of principles that the Illuminati are NOT sticking to, he is going to lose this battle.
In the creation of a new society and a Better tomorrow, having Good Ethics and a solid Moral Structure is important for the health of the society. Perhaps the biggest problem we have now is that pretty much since Ag became the social meme, we have not had either good ethics or good morality. Unfortunately here, to establish better ones, we first have to Win this Game as it stands, and only unconventional tactics can do that now.
Play to Win.
We know that Spain cooks its books. And we accept that because everyone else does the same thing. That will have to stop. The question is: how do we achieve that? Will we all have to brandish torches in a square near us? And if so, are we prepared to do that?
Torches first, Pitchforks second, Guillotines finish the job.
Surly1 post=3846 wrote: Your point about poker is well made. My poker playing skills are such that, when I sit down to a game, I may as well hand my wallet to my fellow players. To follow your analogy, playing your cards well early to avoid tough choices involves knowing the odds. Not sure the odds are knowable at this time. Collapse is coming; do we play for an intermediate term, or go all in now?
I will run the Chess analogy on this one later tonight. No time now to flesh that one out.
Suffice it to say here that Poker always has the element of Chance involved, whereas Chess never does.
RE
ashvin post=3844 wrote:
You really need to stop quoting everything from the Bible completely out of context as if that has any meaning.I see. If I pull a quote from the Bible, it is out of context. If you pull a quote from the Bible it is in context.
Damn, RE, sounds like you really want to start some kind of Fourth Reich here and exterminate ALL of us.
No, just Pigmen. 🙂
You may think you understand WHY people have various faiths and what exactly those faiths entail, but I don’t think you really do, based on your numerous misrepresentations of the most popularized (and bastardized) one in Western culture – the Christian faith.
JYHO.
Right, Jesus recognized all of these things before you and I ever did – that many people would begin practicing the faith as hypocrites and throw out trite nuggets of His wisdom from time to time. But He told His true believers not to do that, and to always remember when they pray in solace – “Our Father which art in heaven… Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in Earth, as it is in Heaven” and “…if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses”.
The Lord’s Prayer! In context by the world renowned expert on Christian belief structure, Dr. Watson! Gimmee a break.
Your very premise that humanity faces inevitable extinction without the OMMP is ridiculous in their minds, and, no, they are not ignoring the evidence that you are considering. Like I said before, they realize all the evil being perpetrated today, and the various economic, social, environmental and militaristic calamities we face across the world. That actually gives them even MORE confidence in their faith.
If you don’t accept the premise, you have a lot more room for maneuvering.
RE
ashvin post=3838 wrote:
I thought the whole point of this “thought experiment” of yours was to see what types of economic and sociopolitical dynamics will realistically happen in upcoming years?
No, if you read what Surly has written in this thread and I write all the time, the purpose of the Thought Experiment is to SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN.
The principle is thus: We are faced with a Die Off of astounding proportions, at LEAST 50% of the population is going to the Great Beyond here no matter WHAT we do. As I work it out in the TE, if we do not get rid of the vermin running this show, this Die Off is going to be 90% and quite possibly 100%, aka an EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT. Bold and Caps together doesn’t emphasize this enough. We are at serious risk of the END of Human Sentience. If you value Biblical Morality more than that maybe you risk this, but I do not so highly value morality which makes little sense in this world. “Go Forth and Multiply?” WTF? That is the LAST thing we need to do these days. My moral principle here is to Save as Many as I Can.
We would all choose OMMP if we knew how to do it in a perfect way and one that is in harmony with our personal beliefs/values. But, REALISTICALLY, we know that there are a dime a dozen problematic issues wrapped up in this thing, and I am just pointing out to you one of the major ones that I see. And I know I’m not the only one, because other people have mentioned how it could be co-opted by the Illuminati and what not. I am simply taking that logic a step further and positing that it may already be a part of THEIR master plan to deceive the masses (as always) and warm them up to their faux Orkin Man. If that is true (and I maintain that it is a much more likely outcome than your OMMP with truly righteous intentions), then we are simply playing into their hands when we advocate for it. We are helping to sow and water the psychological seeds that they would like to see fully grown.
Clearly not everyone would choose the OMMP no matter what, that is what you yourself argue all the time. You argue that some principles are so inviolable that in fact it might be better to let ourselves go EXTINCT than to violate them.
I am fully aware of all the risks involved here in any kind of Plan to Manage Death, either Illuminati generated in an IMP or J6P generated in an OMMP. What I am quite certain of now though is that SOMEBODY is going to be managing this Death and the battle before us is all about WHO gets to do the managing here. Most often through history the Illuminati have been the Managers, but not 100% of the time. Evidence of that is in the Reign of Terror of Robespierre and the fact Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of LEAD in a Ruskie Basement and Marie Antoinette’s HEAD went rolling down the Champs d’Elysee like a Bowling Ball. The Elite do not manage the death so well 100% of the time, and occassionally they DO get the short end of the stick here. This is one of those times we have to make sure J6P runs the Death Show, not the Illuminati. In fact there is probably no time in all of recorded history when this was more important, because never before has the risk on the other side been the complete and total anhilliation of the human species, along with probably all other life forms above the level of the Tardigrades.
If we do NOT step up to the plate here and take control of this, then we are in fact going to be responsible for our own extinction. I for one am not in favor of that, so I run my TEs to find a WAY OUT. I don’t like what I see as the only road out here anymore than you do Ashvin, but it is a Morton’s Fork. The signpost up ahead says Mass Death to the left and Extinction to the right. I will go left here.
I don’t think there’s much left to debate down this spiritual road. You are convinced that spiritual truths have zero application to human dynamics in the “real world”, and you are unwilling to do any research about the spiritual perspectives and principles that you casually dismiss.
All of the evil you see happening now and in the future is exactly the same evils that those of faith see, but they have fundamentally different explanations for why it is here and therefore fundamentally different views on what we can do about it.
You and I will say that we knew all this stuff was coming down the pipeline for years, and they will say “oh really? well half this crap was prophesied in the Bible 2000 years ago, and in some cases even earlier…” Even you like to quote Revelation 18 as being relevant to how monetary collapse would go down today.
If you still can’t understand why their faith is critical to what they think is an acceptable course of action and also what they believe will happen in the future, both to them personally and the world as a whole, then there’s nothing more I can say to make you understand that.
You think they’re wrong, they think they’re right, and I think they are a lot more right than you are. That’s all there is to it.
No, that is NOT all there is to it.
I understand well enough why people have faiths of varying sorts, and I understand also well enough IMHO the Christian Faith also.
The problem with about all of these faiths in a world of serious overshoot is they have limited applicability if you want to Save as Many as You Can. I don’t think all those folks who generated up these Faiths were “wrong” in their assumptions when the world was new and resources seemed limitless. Conditions have changed here now though, and for much the same reason that the monetary system we run based on growth will not work, so also the “truths” many hold near and dear to their moral center ALSO will not work.
People do not let go of truths they think are universal very easily, only really when personal survival becomes the name of the game are such truths really tested vor veracity. A few souls will hold onto their truths right to the bitter end, and get Nailed to a Cross for it. The fact they will do that is quite remarkable, but it doesn’t make them Right all the time either.
RE
steve from virginia post=3834 wrote:
– Mad Max isn’t happening so far but Woodstock might not be out of the question …:cheer:
Depends a whole lot on your Location there Steve. Mad Max has hit Somalia and Syria here already, Egypt is well into it and Greece is on the way. How long to project before MM comes to a Theatre Near You?
RE
I have added a New Link on the DD Newz Page for Holmes-Watson Debates between myself and Ashvin. If you want to follow the endless rounds of this keyboard brawl whether they occur here on TAE or on DD, this link will take you to the latest venue for the Thrilla in Doomervilla.
Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9q7mvc6bsY
RE
ashvin post=3830 wrote:
1) Gotta love when people reference the silly idea that deep thinkers like Newton discovered some form of Truth by having an apple fall on his head. It only seems that way in our post-scientific worldview when we look back hundreds of years… in reality, it takes a lot more mental effort and, yes, research/collaboration with others.
Bullshit. The smartest guys I ever met were nerds who locked themselves in their dorm rooms and never talked to anybody except maybe the Voices in their own heads like John Nash. In a lecture he gave when I was back there in Academia, Richard Feynman answered a question from yours truly on where he got his insights, and he said he stopped thinking about what everybody else had figured out and started up from the few things he was sure enough of to go with. I will add here Feynman was probably the funniest guy EVER to walk the halls of Academia.
2) Do you not see the ass backwards logic you are using? On one hand, you claim that only very few people have actually been able to stick to true Christian principles over the years (something I would agree with), and the other hand you say that we therefore need to abandon those principles and keep doing the same shit we have been doing for thousands of years, which has ALWAYS resulted in bad outcomes and has brought us exactly to where we are today. You want to turn all of humanity into violent robots and, I’m very glad to break it you RE, but you are dead wrong about that.
Even if you DO postulate that what we SHOULD do is try to make Apples fall Up here, they won’t do that Ashvin. I am not going to “to turn all of humanity into violent robots”, violent robots is what they ALWAYS become when confronted with life threatening circumstances.
What brought us to where we are today is not the violent tendencies of Homo Sapiens, we are no different from the rest of the Animal Kingdom in that way and they do just fine overall. What got us to this point was first the Peaceful Occupation of Planting Millet and then the massive skew in Power Distribution that evolved from that. The unceasing Inventiveness of our species also contributed greatly to this problem, finding ever more ways to rapidly consume the resources of Mother Earth. Now we are FORCED into REVERSE ENGINEERING our way back out of this 10 millenia long MISTAKE, and TRUST ME on this, it will NOT happen peacefully. I GUARANTEE IT.
RE
ashvin post=3809 wrote:
There are are plenty of Biblical Scholars out there who are not Christian or Jewish, RE. I’m sure they could provide you plenty of fodder for your critiques of the Bible and the Christian Faith, but you have to actually do the research before you are justified in ridicule (and none of them really end up “ridiculing” it anyway). And I guarantee that research will raise a lot more questions for you before they raise a lot more answers, but that’s just the nature of the beast.
Where is it Written that you have to do “research” to elucidate the Truth? If I am sitting under a tree and an Apple plops on my head, do I need to do research to know that apples always fall down after disengaging from trees they grow on? They NEVER fall UP. I do of course need a math background to work up a symbolic representation of how fast they accelerate, but I don’t need to do a hell of a lot of research past that already contained in First Principles I already learned or figured out over time.
If there was a lot of variance in how Homo Sapiens behaves in conditions like we are working our way into here it would be problematic, but there isn’t much variance. That a Peaceful Solution with everyone Turning the Other Cheek is going to occur here is Unlikely in the EXTREMIS. Given that knowledge, then if you want to engineer a Good Outcome, you figure out how the Variables work in the Violent solutons that always ARE actually taken. Apples ALWAYS fall down Ashvin, and Homo Sapiens ALWAYS reacts violently when confronted with life threatening situations such as Starvation and violent oppression. You can’t make Apples fall up Ashvin.
RE
Surly1 post=3817 wrote:
RE and others mock the Bible and Christian tenets, which is their prerogative.
This is again an incomplete characterization of my thinking Surly. I mock EVERYTHING which Home Sapiens has come up with as a solution to existential problems since first purposefully planting Millet. Before that we were doing OK. Like Don Rickles, you can’t call me a bigot because I make fun of EVERYBODY.
As you say though, Bible Thumpers make it easy, because about none of them except a few Saints follow directives like “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.” WTF does that in a cold climate? You would freeze to death in minutes in the Winter here in Alaska if you did that. Its nuts. This is why Saints invariably end up dead.
RE
ashvin post=3806 wrote:
No shit, Sherlock…
The reality is that neither you nor I nor anyone else here will end up heading up a movement like OMMP. And, yeah, it will be painfully obvious to all of us when it actually happens that it is a deception, especially after we remember talking about that scenario in this thread…
You will be especially enraged when it all happens and I can see you yelling at the top of your lungs, “The Illuminati stole my idea to get rid of them!!” But no one will listen or care at that point. This scenario is a much more realistic outcome for OMMP than the Idealistic one you posit in your arguments, which is part of the reason why I think we need to be vigilant to defend against those who seek to advocate or pursue it.
This is Elementary, my dear Watson. Whether your deduction is the more realistic scenario or not is open to conjecture, but the fact is that if it does indeed play out that way it is NOT the OMMP, it is then the IMP, Illuminati Master Plan. The significant DIFFERENCE between these two plans is who ends up DEAD here. In the OMMP, it is mostly Illuminati who end up dead (by percentage, not absolute numbers of course since they represent only .01% of the total population). In the IMP, mostly J6Ps end up dead. Given the Morton’s Fork choice here that it is going to go one way or the other, Sherlock here picks the OMMP.
You set yourself up for that one Watson. You are without doubt the best Straight Man I ever got to throw the Punch Line at. 😀
Sherlock RE
Hircus post=3783 wrote: [quote=riesterm post=3777]
The question(s) I wrestle with are “do I spend my cash on land now — before my cash loses its value? Or, do I wait for deflation and take advantage of the “cash is king” adage?Buying productive land now might be a wise choice. As long as you have enough capital to pay for it and living expenses (including property taxes on said property) for a few years after. I imagine tax collection and loan collection may be much more draconian as finances become tighter.
Also, what type of land makes a big difference on if it’s a good idea for you — farmland, wooded hills, desert, suburban homes, and frozen tundra all have different utilities, and my depreciate at different rates and absolute amount over the next few years.
So yeah, no easy answers I can see.
Buy nothing you cannot Carry with you and Protect and Defend. Ownership of Land is a Chimera, always has been.Have as little as possible to defend, so you are not a Target. Anyone purporting to OWN the land is a Target.
Go as far out as you possibly can from the center of the collapse, hopefully past the Event Horizon. Lowest population zones are best. High population zones are DEATH TRAPS.
Join with others, make a Tribe, Clan, Gang or Community. Do not try to suvive on your own. You cannot.
Depend on NO form of “money”. Barter only. Reject all forms of money pitched out by the elite to “Save the Day”, PMs or otherwise As any have ever been constructed through all of history, all are lies.
All the “wealth” constructed here from the Age of Ag and the Age of Oil is going down now, and depending on any of that is a mistake. Only your Wits, your Skllls and your Connections to others now represent true wealth. Build all of them as best you can, and GTFO of the Big Shities as fast as you can.
The Big Show is Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You.
RE
ashvin post=3799 wrote:
Look, the fact is that these are philosophical/spiritual positions established LONG before you, I or Tao Jonesing were ever around. There are true Christians out there who think we are right now immersed in an ultimate battle of Good vs. Evil, just like you do, except the force they have on their side makes your rag tag group of wannabe Outlaw Josey Wales gunslingers look like little kids playing in a sandbox. Their battle spans the Heavens and the Earth and involves demons, angels, Satan, God, humans and everything else you can think of.
I’ll put my kids up against these folks anytime. No more pussy footing around with this stuff.
Name the place and time. Bring on the Gog and the Magog. Let’s have it out here. B)
Now you obviously will want to write all of these spiritual folk off as nutjobs who believe in fairy tales, but they are just as smart as you are and have spent years studying the exact same issues you have studied. They know all about the NWO and the Illuminati and the GFC and peak oil. They know everything there is to know about the Bible’s alleged inconsistencies, contradictions, and flaws. None of that changes the underlying theological message and values conveyed, which in their eyes are infinitely more important than your Thought Experiments will ever be.
JYHO Ashvin. MAYBE 1:1,000,000 is as smart as I am. That is what the testing says anyhow 🙂 I didn’t sacrifice 3 years of my childhood here with the Psychs for no reason apparently. Bring ’em on TAE, I will take them ALL on. My Chess skills are rusty for playing 10 games at once, but not my debating skills. Bring on 100 though, I probably wil be swamped out on time. I cannot keyboard that fast. :woohoo:
The exact same thing can probably be said of Jews, Hindus and others who have been at the business of figuring shit out through experience, logic, critical thinking and faith for thousands of years. You are not special, RE, and neither am I. We are just two people who have our spins on history and reality and the future and the human experience, just like a whole lot of other very smart people out there. And, yes, that includes the “Bible-thumping nut jobs”. Their ideas may offend your delicate materialist worldview, but that’s your issue to overcome, not theirs.
Overcome it I will. I never quit. Just takes time, patience and a whole LOT of keyboarding to do it. Not to mention the Beer. 😆
ashvin post=3796 wrote:
The rhetoric and agenda will line up with what many people within both the “fringe” and mainstream populations already believe or are starting to believe (much of which will be at least partly true) – It will talk about corrupt central banks and evil Jewish bankers, corporate CEOs, Zionist war-mongers, vulture capitalists, etc. Basically pointing out how these people are responsible for the putrid state of socioeconomic affairs people find themselves in at that time. At this point the Illuminati will not hesitate to sacrifice a few scapegoats, like your Tepco or BP CEO or whoever is convenient, a few highly visible kleptocrats – just to prove to the rest of us that their motives are genuine.
Anybody who does that is OBVIOUSLY an Illuminati Tool.
The only Orkin Man I would actually have some Faith in is one who put all 140 Bilderbergers in front of the Inquisition and sent every last one of them to the Great Beyond.
A few Scapegoats does not Cut the Mustard here and identifies anyone who attempts this methodology as a tool of the Illuminati. A REAL Orkin Man would knock them ALL DOWN.
If David Rockefeller, Nathan Rothschild, Henry Kissinger, George Soros Bill Gates, et al; all the major Stockholders and Board of Directors of Monsanto, Dupont, IBM, GE et al do not get a summons from the Auto da Fe to appear in front of the Inquisition, it is a FAKE and not to be believed.
I do not think that the Bilderbergers are going to hire an Orkin Man who will exterminate ALL of them. This would be an extremely counter productive methodology from the Illuminati side of the Battle.
RE
Tao Jonesing post=3792 wrote: @RE,
There’s no need for you to be defensive. You make good points within the context you make them. Make the context clear, and demand others recognize the context when describing what you say. I’ve only encountered your writing recently, and I prefer to read your personal honesty any day to watching others hide behind somebody else’s falsehood (i.e., organized religion). You’re good folk (as much as I disagree with you).
There is no such thing as “revealed” truth, only Plato’s Noble Lie.
I don’t think I am being defensive. IMHO, I am taking the Philosophical Battle here to the Enemy. Ashvin is pretty much like every Bible Thumper I ever met, just a good deal smarter than most of them. Arguing with him takes constant creativity and being light on your feet.
This whole series of articles on DD and TAE all come from posting made on one thread El G started on Usury. Surly wrote his original Pol Pot post in that thread, and I suggested he turn that into a Feature Article by filling it out with some of the counter arguments, and then Ashvin chipped in he would repost on TAE long as he could set it up how he wanted. I thought Surly would write a comparative article, but instead he chose to flesh out his own perspective with it. So I then had to go ahead and rebut that one with Unforgiven. Ashvin then went and reconstructed both of those articles and added his own 2 cents to it.
All fine and dandy here, but nobody just reading the post Ashvin constructed is getting the full picture here, and really you should go in and read the entire originating thread to have the most comprehensive view. Lots of stuff ended up on the cutting room floor in everybody’s articles here.
I don’t EVER expect to get agreement on all this stuff from everyone, that Dog Won’t Hunt. The purpose of the entire Thought Experiment is to flesh out all the parameters we face in this spin down, and I KNOW what the most common ideas are. So I think it out and then I take up the contrary position to the Common Wisdom. I lay it out as I understand History and overall History backs me up a whole lot better than it does Ashvin’s arguments.
I can’t stand Knee Jerk reactions to these issues and Boiler Plate “Wisdom” coming off the pages of The Bible, which about nobody really follows in the real world anyhow except a few Saints now and then. Confronted by someone like Ashvin who considers this stuff to be the most consistent and well thought out Religious Philosophy of all Time, I got no choice here but to hammer down on all the reasons it doesn’t WORK in reality, and never has.
Anyhow, its a running battle here, and this is another one of them here on TAE. The Beat Goes On.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umrp1tIBY8Q
RE
agelbert post=3785 wrote: @Reverse Engineer,
No matter how this thing shakes out, I am not judging you for the Orkin man approach. I think it has merit as long as the procedure is conducive to a sustainable society.Nor do I hold any truck with you AB for your ideas here either. Just when the Conduits Fail, don’t stand anywhere in the line of fire between the .50 Cal Baretts of the kids in my school and anybody on the Illuminati side of this conflict. Not gonna hole up out there in the Mountains while they still got Infrared detectors in the Apache Helicopter Gunships though. We’ll wait until the Choppers are outta Gas. Not getting in any battle where we are that outmatched. We’ll save the Ammo and Lay Low here for a while yet. When the time comes though, you gotta be ready for it.
RE
lukitas post=3786 wrote: great debate, thanks people!
The problem within autocratic regimes was always the succession. Stalin’s dead, Mao’s gone, what do we do now?
Democracy provided an excellent solution with the built-in guillotine. Once every X time, we get a chance to fire the whole lot of them.
I must admit a sort of sympathy, even admiration (with a grudge) for guys like Cromwell, Robespierre, Lenin and Trotski.
In a dispute, there can be a point where argument or debate does not any longer suffice. There is a moment where the only argument that we have left is violence. But natural justice demands a fair trial before such violence be meted out.Agreed. When the leadership stops listening to common sense, you have not only the right but the OBLIGATION to get rid of them.
Jefferson wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[76] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.If said folks consistently duck a peaceful change, they get what they ask for:
I also have never been in favor of Justice being meted out without a Trial. It is JMHO that the laws need some rewriting and the Punishments should fit the Crimes.
I humbly propose we should maybe extend the logic of the democratic guillotine : what if any representative, senator, congressman, ceo, found wanting, voted out of office, guilty of coruption, should be immediately guillotined upon leaving office. Why not put some real risk into the games of power? Wouldn’t that be a great incentive for good governance? And just imagine the show : The Public Trial, the March of Shame, and then the Vengeance of the People is carried out in Great Pomp.
I am quite certain that motivation for Honest Public Service would be far greater if at the end of each CONgressional Session you roll a few Heads just to keep the rest of them Honest. It doesn’t have to be a lot, just a few of the worst offenders. I mean really, do you think the TEPCO Executives would have been nearly so careless with the Public Safety if they knew if they fucked up they would be required to commit Seppuku?
Back in the old days before the Nips took on Western Moral Values they would have handled this thing correctly.
RE
ashvin post=3782 wrote: What better way than to convince the people that the NWO agenda is actually something that is constructed to destroy the NWO?? We will suddenly find out all of these “revealing” facts about the people who are supposedly at the highest levels of the Illuminati or whatever, and we will be made to think that anyone who is connected to them, via historical connections, belief structures, genealogy, genetics, whatever, must be dealt with as well. Because these will be the people who are “holding us back” from ridding humanity of the “evil forces” and evolving to some higher state of existence. It fit rights into RE’s timeline, too, because first they would need a lot of majorly bad events to go down and a lot of people ready and willing to believe anything they are told about who is responsible.
What’s the argument here? We mistaken believe the Bilderbergers are connected to the Illuminati? The BIS is just a front and has nothing to do with the control of the global monetary system? The Rockefellers and Rothschilds are actually innocent victims of a propaganda smear? It would be wrong to put BP and TEPCO Executives on trial for Crimes Against Humanity? What?
RE
Basseterre Kitona post=3778 wrote:
All of the non-violence/passive resistance talk is a bunch of crap because it cedes one of the best weapons in keeping the rich ruling elite honest, i.e., the risk of getting their head lopped off they abuse their privilege at the expense of others.
Is it any wonder that the most powerful are so gluttonous these days when most of them feel literally untouchable? The balance is messed up. This is partially the fault of the elites but the masses also share some responsibility because we’ve been apathetic and let them get away with it.
An exterminator isn’t needed so much as a guillotine or two. If one had been parked outside Wall Street for the past 40 years perhaps the deterrence alone would have been enough to keep the greed in check. Probably a head should roll every few years anyway just to keep us all honest.
Anyhow, it’s probably best to blame Ghandi and his stupid ideas for today’s financial/governance mess.
Bravo. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
RE
Surly1 post=3750 wrote:
The Orkin man is a thought experiment, not a call to action. It is also a thought experiment with real world applications.Hallelujah. At least one Homo Sapiens understands this. Which is of course why Surly and I coexist inside the Diner.
About nobody BESIDES Surly really grasps how I do Thought Experiments. I suppose because he saw so many of them play out on TBP and had patience to figure them out.
You CANNOT understand Human and Social Dynamics if you are not willing to play out in your mind how people actually do react to given situations. Religion does not explain this stuff. Surly is absolutely the ONLY person I ever met who really grasps this fact (despite the fact we do not draw the same conclusions).
RE
Before anybody gets on my case for that last post, I remind you all that if I get Napalmed (and accusing me of being “off the Deep End” IS Napalm), I practice the Chicago Way always. I’ll just light it up like Vietnam on a Summer’s Day n 1969 with commentary like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZ6eaL3S2E
RE
Golden Oxen post=3746 wrote: My personal opinion is that RE has gone off the deep end with this one, and both you and Surly, being among the brightest and respected bulbs in our meeting places, have given substance and legitimacy to this Orkin Man madness buy treating it seriously.
I am so far off the Deep End I got no IDEA where the Shallow End you inhabit is anymore. 😉
So STUFF IT GO, along with your GOLD. :side:
You Talkin’ to ME? Nobody else here….
RE
ashvin post=3743 wrote: We’re talking about innocent people that will get caught up in this thing one way or the other – obviously a fact that RE likes to marginalize.
Emphasis mine.
Precisely Ashvin, one way or the other, this is coming down the pipe here. Its the SAME dynamic that has played itself out many times over now through history, just this time on a way bigger scale. You think this one will be DIFFERENT? On what basis? People are much more moral now than they were when Rome collapsed? When the Romanoffs got filled full of lead in a Ruskie Basement? When Marie Antoinette’s head went rolling down the Champs d’Elysee like a Bowling Ball? We GOT RELIGION in the meantime here? What? If you think that, I put to you that you are sadly mistaken. I do NOT marginalize it either, I make it explicit that this is the nature of the beast.
Because as soon as we accept that reality, the whole meme of courageous Clint Eastwood riding into town to wipe out the bad guys, and ONLY the bad guys, falls apart. That’s just not how it works in the real world at anything above the smallest scales of operation – never has, never will.
I NEVER said the Man with No Name will wipe out ONLY the Bad Guys. I have EXPLICITLY stated on numerous occassions that you “Cannot Make an Omelette without Breaking a Few Eggs”. The collateral damage here is going to be ENORMOUS, beyond any scale ever in all of Recorded History.
This is sadly IMHO the last and final Battle for ALL THE MARBLES. Good versus Evil in the Showdown at the OK Corral. Get the Modified Winchesters ready boys and girls, you’re gonna need them.
RE
ashvin post=3742 wrote:
There is probably some confusion about what the OMMP actually entails for those not already familiar with RE’s writings on the idea. I think of it literally like a modern Spanish Inquisition after the “conduits”, or the monetary/energy mechanisms of elite control, have broken down. But I’ll leave it to RE to come here and explain it in more detail if he wants to.
Done in my last 2 posts. The confusion lies in the fact you obfuscate what I write and leave out many important details. You have the objective to spin this here toward the viewpoint you hold true, you explicitly told me so in the Diner.
Ashvin wrote:
There is no way in Hell I would ever post something that comes off as pro-Inquisition or even Inquisition-neutral… it would just be very irresponsible of me in my role as a steward of I&S’ blog, and it would also offend my personal morality.So it is up to the readers here to go over to the Diner to read the original material free of your spin. I have faith that those really interested in debating the issue with full knowledge of what was written will do so.
RE
