Debt Rattle August 7 2021


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    “Robert W Malone MD Interview on mRNA Tech Invention, Problems with Public Health Pandemic Response”

    39 mins – enjoy.

    Robert W Malone MD Interview on mRNA Tech Invention, Problems with Public Health Pandemic Response


    @mister: re, Cuomo. When they turn on one of their own it’s swift and ugly. It appears even King Cuomo wasn’t exempt. Expect more of this as things disintegrate. Wonder who’s next?? (ps … couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy … /sarc)


    As I’ve said before – I can’t believe that I have to listen to Fox for the truth.
    Up is down, Black is white, War is peace.


    Hellllllo AE community. Always helpful ( especially you Germ) so here is another question. It forms a foundational belief amongst my vaccinated family, and I suspect many others. Is it an indisputable fact that Asymptomatically infected individuals are prime spreaders ? Eg. One must stay well clear of anyone returning from a plane flight as they could very well be asymptomatic!

    D Benton Smith

    Why is everyone so pissed off at the government for not doing its job ? Isn’t the government hired and paid to provide security to “good” people by taking away the freedom of “bad” people . . . by force if necessary ? Well, it sure looks to me like that’s exactly what they’re doing, and doing it with unprecedented gusto. Mission almost fully accomplished. Vaccine passports should wrap it up nicely.

    In other words, you can have your security or you can eat your freedom, but you can’t eat your security and have cake at the same time. . . or something like that.


    UpstateNYer, to take up the theme of potential vaxs associate deaths, another angle I have been thinking about…at a tangent so to speak: what about vaxxed ppl who caught COV-19 and died?

    (Is now openly admitted as possible, by the CDC, other authorities..)

    Autopsies harm no-one and provide many clues, answers.

    So where was, is, all that super informative data?

    Here is one sci. art. July 2021, which seems sensible, but treats – 3 (three) deaths in Hamburg.

    Here one that recos. autopsies, and offers a review (see the paper, lots of info…) Quote:

    Nevertheless, only two complete autopsies are described and the cause of death was listed as COVID-19 in only one of them. The lack of postmortem investigation did not allow a definition of the exact cause of death ….

    There are more papers … but no large-scale study (afaik..) – a thorough review would be good, lacking that, the present in the news move comes from a German Chief Pathologist:

    The director of the Pathological Institute of the University of Heidelberg, Peter Schirmacher, has carried out over forty autopsies on people who had died within two weeks of their vaccination. Schirmacher expressed alarm over his findings.

    German chief pathologist sounds alarm on fatal vaccine injuries


    “South Korea to compensate nurse paralyzed after AstraZeneca vaccine”


    O/T but, WTF !!!

    “US sends in B-52s in desperate bid to stop the Taliban seizing key Afghan cities”


    Here’s Karl’s latest:

    Damn he’s smart!


    The path of is being implemented everyday.
    The fight for life, has evolved a mechanism of maximizing spreading geographically so as to survive the longest on the time line.
    Also, being in a Mutualism symbiotic relationship with other life forms has been proven to be the most beneficial.

    In asymptomatic cases, people don’t know they are infected. There is no way for others to know either. Regardless of how COVID-19 presents, the disease is contagious and can easily transmit to others. The possibility that an asymptomatic person could infect other people is exactly the same as in symptomatic cases.

    TAE Summary

    * The Three Questions
    1) How effective are the vaccines at preventing Covid symptoms, death and long Covid?
    2) How prevalent, how severe and how long term are side effects (including death) from the vaccines?
    3) How effective are the FLCCC protocols at preventing infection, hospitalization, death and long Covid?

    * UK Government Report
    – With 80% vaccinated the overall risk of dying from the Delta variant in the UK is 2.5x higher if you are unvaccinated. This does not speak to absolute risk reduction.
    – UK data actually answers question 1) somewhat affirmatively but does not answer questions 2) and 3)

    * Israeli data
    – Does not show severity of cases and so offers no data on effectiveness
    – Israeli data does not answer any of the three questions

    * Ippocrate protocols go beyond MATH+
    – Intended to answer 3) affirmatively but shows no data

    * Iceland data
    – Shows that vaxxed individuals can catch and spread the Delta variant without mentioning severity
    – This alone answers none of the three questions

    * The Lancet
    – …. Assessing the suitability of vaccines must consider all indicators, and involve safety, deployability, availability, and costs.
    Questions 2) needs to be answered.

    * Very Rare Adverse Effects are part of the answer to question 2) but are downplayed by the media

    * To Sum Up
    – No one should care about the number of cases, only the number of adverse short and long term consequences. Case counts alone can be misleading.
    1) There is evidence that shows that the vaccines diminish symptoms though not completely so 1) can be answered somewhat positively.
    2) The vaccines do have known adverse short term consequences and unknown adverse long term consequences including enabling variants. These consequences are downplayed and ignored. There is a big effort to not answer 2).
    3) Most on TAE believe (I assume) that the FLCCC or similar protocols are more effective than vaccines without short or long term adverse consequences. The repression of this information is the biggest problem.

    Without FLCCC protocols your choice is to get vaccinated or risk getting Covid. The MSM has most people believing this is their only choice and uses the partial effectiveness of 1) while downplaying 2) to convince people to get vaccinated. In short, without 3), 1) despite 2) is your only option.


    Noirette, thank you for the link to the German pathologist. The lack of autopsies on [potential] vaccine associated deaths is the glaring “tell” as to what is being swept under the rug (at least, here in the US). There’s no excuse for it. Which gets back to … where are those in the medical industry who should be doggedly pursuing this? None of them are doing that because they’re a bunch of spineless jellyfish who prefer a paycheck to the truth. Even if people are dying. What a sad statement on how far we’ve fallen.

    Raul is correct when he noted, “They’re planning the approval in early September. That will be the last of the FDA’s credibility.”

    Or maybe the FDA is past credibility even now for many people. Myself included.


    TAE Summary for the slam dunk!! Well done!


    Beautiful LOVE letters from Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash.

    I remember the days when a song would be “played all summer” – and you would have a real experience of it. You weren’t completely alone with your thoughts/feelings, as we were all plugged into the same “outlets” hearing the same things TOGETHER. I honestly believe that it brought us together in the most significant Ways.\

    Get Together
    by the Youngbloods

    Love is but a song we sing
    Fear’s the way we die
    You can make the mountains ring
    Or make the angels cry
    Though the bird is on the wing
    And you may not know why
    Come on, people now
    Smile on your brother
    Everybody get together
    Try to love one another right now….


    @zero: “The possibility that an asymptomatic person could infect other people is exactly the same as in symptomatic cases.

    Is it exactly the same? I’ve listened to interviews with MDs who state that asymptomatic people likely don’t have a high enough viral load in their nasal passage, etc., to readily spread the disease to others through coughing, sneezing. It’s also been noted the idea of healthy individuals spreading disease is not how we’ve historically viewed or handled epi/pandemics. We don’t normally quarantine healthy people. Why is this coronavirus different?

    Also, what *is* an asymptomatic person?
    — Someone who hasn’t yet shown signs of illness? (early in the disease process)
    — Someone who will never show signs of illness (why don’t they? AND … how do we know they even had covid, random PCR testing??)
    — Someone who had a mild illness, laid around the house for a day, then felt better and so is asymptomatic now? Again, how do we know they had covid? PCR test?


    “I’m seeing everybody around me get sick and dying. Let me just go ahead and get vaccinated.’”

    Except…that isn’t what I’m seeing at all. In 18 months I’m aware of two deaths — a friend of my mother’s and my middle school drama teacher. My mother’s friend was a widow, missing her husband and resigned to die. I hadn’t seen my former drama teacher in decades, and am unfamiliar with any comorbidities that he may have had…but he was of advanced age. These things happen. I’m usually aware of a few older folks who pass away each year.

    My attorney and my partner were sick day after day with Covid…but then they both recovered and were fine. For everyone else I know who had it (including myself) it was “like a flu,” except for my father who did not fall ill…and my kids who were exposed repeatedly but have no indication of ever being infected.

    No, I am not seeing an uptick in sickness or death! (Stop gaslighting me, Fauci!!)


    Two years ago my partner and I met a couple who were living their dream — an off grid property where they could, with likeminded others, build their own home and grow their own food, living in harmony with nature. Yesterday we visited them. To our delight we discovered that we still had very much in common, and, interestingly enough, were of one mind when it came to Covid and the vaccines. We had not corresponded in 2 years…and yet had accessed similar information and arrived at the same conclusion.

    They needed to purchase more water rights, found an appropriate seller, however, their neighbor runs a bed and breakfast and apparently wants to run them off of their land, and is creating a legal challenge to the purchase that is costing them all of their reserves and more. To find out what they are doing, who they are, and possibly help them out, follow this link: The Wild Cooperative


    Regarding ADE…I find myself wanting further data to corroborate that it is happening.
    (1) there is sufficient data to determine that the vaccine does basically nothing to halt infection nor infectious ness
    (2) there is sufficient data to determine that the Covid protection from the vaccine wanes as the months pass, and is very low after 6 months.
    (3) there is preliminary evidence that vaccination *might* lead to ADE, however, since the oldest, sickest cohort were the first to be vaccinated, we know that the protection wanes over time, and the expression of ADE is very similar symptomatically to severe Covid, preliminary evidence is not jarring enough to present it to the vaccine “true believers.” I don’t think that vaccine true believers are going to be jolted until YOUNG vaccine recipients are dying at higher than normal rates from ADE. And, it also needs to be seen overwhelmingly that the unvaccinated would be (a) Covid-naive, not getting severely ill from Covid or (b) Covid survivors, not getting ill at all from Covid. And this needs to be so prevalent that the lived reality of the vaccinated “true believers” is a stark contrast to the “gas lighting” by the media, et al.

    (As far as #3, it appears that Democritus noticed these problems as well. There just isn’t enough data to convincingly state that ADE is occurring…)

    It is quite depressing to think about. I was steeling myself for the time when my vaccinated friends would show signs of vaccine injury. That time is upon me. Only 1 out of 5 currently see the vaccines as the culprit. I am steeling myself for the time when there are deaths from ADE.

    I realize that I am pattern seeking. I try to remain at least somewhat aware of what sort of evidence would be to the contrary. Just like I *wanted* to believe that my vaccinated friends were as safe as they felt once they were vaccinated…but now there is a preponderance of evidence that I was right and they were wrong. It saddens me. I didn’t want to be right.


    My 2 cents regarding the comments…more ingredients added to the pot, we have been stirred up and there is some froth. So, turn down the heat, we need to find a new equilibrium, a new homeostasis. This is jarring, can be upsetting, but this is what life is about: change. Living systems are not static, we are never going to be able to regress to an idyllic past.

    My preference is to embrace Democritus and deflationista. To do so is consistent with my values. However, what I have learned from years of interacting with cherished family whose beliefs differ radically from my own, is that we focus on finding our commonalities and instead of trying to convince each other that “my way is RIGHT!.” This will reduce argument and help keep emotions to a manageable level in discussions. We can respectfully disagree.

    I support D & D’s need to share and comment. However, share, rather than try to convince. If you run across an article that speaks to you, share it, and let us know why it speaks to you.

    I also feel for the frustration felt in this crazy set of circumstances and the isolation that comes when friends are suddenly holding opinions that differ radically from our own, and the challenge of navigating this situation.

    (This is my attempt to keep my comments to one per day. Now I’ve gotta work on striking camp.)


    I found out last night that my daughter’s school district has enacted a mask mandate in accordance with the CDC and in violation with recently enacted Arizona law. Parents are given the option to opt their child out of the mask mandate…but I cannot exercise that option as my co-parent is a CDC acolyte and we have joint legal — eh, you know the jargon.

    Which authority is more powerful — the federal CDC or the Arizona State Legislature?


    I’m still reeling from the outright falsehoods being spewed by this doctor.

    After all that we know about these vaxxines, that he can spew such misinformation is extraordinary.

    Mister Roboto

    In the past, I have shared dreams here that I believed were related to the quasi-pandemic or TAE, and I trust that I am not contributing to “comment pollution” by doing so.

    I dreamed last night that I was a teenage boy, probably 16 or 17 YO, walking down remote county highways quite a walking distance from my hometown but a brief car-ride distance. It was well after dark during a temperate time of year in Wisconsin. I initially thought I knew my way, but gradually over the course of what was probably an hour or so, I realized I was lost and starting to feel quite a bit of anxiety over that. I was hoping that my mother would happen along in her car and pick me up for the journey home, as I recall she and I had gone someplace located out in the boonies together, and for some reason, I grew weary of whatever the goal of the original travel was and headed out on my own.

    Realizing I was lost and with no cars visible anywhere on the road at the moment, I figured I should do pursue some other plan for dealing with the fact that I was lost. I came upon a small town that was remarkably brightly-lit with astonishingly vivid colors, albeit tinged with a very “street-lighty” yellow-orange. The dream wrapped up as I headed for a gas-station with a high-mounted red and yellow “Shell” sign in front of it. I didn’t knew what I would do once there, but I did know at least I wouldn’t be walking the remote by-ways all by myself.

    I’m thinking that perhaps the county highways I was traversing was the Internet, and the feeling of being lost, alone, and afraid was a symbol of the knowledge of the various predicaments modern society is facing. And the very brightly lit small town was TAE, the Shell sign symbolizing the fact that this started out as a “peak oil blog”. (Perhaps not, but that was my perception of it at the time I originally discovered this corner of the Internet back in 2011-ish.)


    @ upstateNYer

    The qualifier ….
    The possibility


    Spineless jellyfish yes, UpstateNY. The docs, medical staff and associated (some exceptions of course) won’t be kicking back or taking any action whatsoever against the creation of an official category of ppl who will be viciously repressed, i.e. the unvaxxed.

    Who are to be downgraded and corralled, soon to be the victims of the of new-style, oh so modern, witch-hunts..

    MSM selection:

    Italy, to deny the vote for the dirty unvaxxed (eng.)

    France, to deny the vote (eng)

    In these countries to have voting status revoked is to turn a citizen into an animal that can be hunted, a non-person.

    China, access to hospitals, schools, parks, …

    Unvaccinated people in parts of China to be denied access to hospitals, parks and schools

    Israel to make public the names of the unvaxxed..

    For thousands of years scapegoats within communities have been sacrificed…to let the powerful continue their control and domination.



    Without FLCCC protocols your choice is to get vaccinated or risk getting Covid.

    No, getting vaccinated does not take away risk of getting Covid.



    Curious….how is it that those Dylan/Cash LOVE letters found their Way into today’s lineup? Have you been saving them over the years or did they just pop into the moment?

    In appreciation for you sharing them.


    A Suggestion for Raul::

    There seems to be a natural progression to the lifespan of blogs written by thoughtful & perceptive authors who have a “non-mainstream” message. The early comments will come from people who tend to be on a similar wavelength but also have the ability to understand the subtleties and complexities of the author’s POV. Then, as time goes by, the blog will increasingly attract another group of people who sort of get the message but like the “feel” of the site so they “move in” and, over time, tend to become the majority voice in the comment section.

    The 3rd and, very often, final stage of blog evolution happens when the blog’s controversial subject matter becomes visible enough to attract skilled trolls who’re being paid to sabotage the blogs effectiveness. This ignites the comment section – which, by now, has become just an Echo Chamber that radiates heat but no light – as the majority of your posters help out the trolls by arguing with them!

    This 3rd stage of blogdom often causes authors who are fed up with commenters who have, in effect, hijacked the blog and shut down the site out of frustration. I hope you don’t take this route as you’re providing an important educational public service that, to my knowledge, isn’t duplicated anywhere else.

    You have, at the moment, 3 – count ‘em – 3 regular posters who are an asset to TAE. Period. You know who they are as well as I do. Plus 2 trolls and 20 – 25 regular “participants” who have turned TAE into their own personal perversion of Twitter. You also have an unknown number of readers, like myself, that rarely or never post here for various reasons – including the unfortunate fact that your comments section is no longer receptive to suggestions that challenge what passes for thought on this forum.

    Your “cheering section”, in the abstract, respects what you do but then uses the comment area for their own selfish purposes – which ruins the potential usefulness of a forum for insightful and infomational posts that add to rather than subtract from what you’re trying to do.

    Let me offer you a suggestion: Will WordPress allow you to limit all posters to one post per day? As you saw yesterday your plea for reason and moderation – to say nothing of usefulness by commenters – was universally agreed to and then completely ignored.

    Stronger measures are needed I think.

    Mister Roboto

    @Noirette: I followed the links (with some help from Google Translate for the one in Italian), and I think it’s important to add the caveat that the “no jab, no vote” laws in Italy and France are not definite. The idea of of vaccine passports was dismissed not terribly long ago as right-wing conspiracism, but now that these passports are being fully promoted, I’m not saying the electoral unpersoning of the unvaxxed could never happen. But rumors and possibilities that are not yet formally proposed should be referred to as rumors and possibilities just so we’re clear on what’s what right now.

    TAE Summary


    No, getting vaccinated does not take away risk of getting Covid.

    True. I should have written

    Without FLCCC protocols your choice is to get vaccinated and risk the adverse effects or risk getting Covid with none of the claimed benefits of vaccination.


    I’ve seen claims that people can spread asymptomatically and claims they cannot. I followed some of the claims to two papers. One paper said they saw no asymptomatic spread. The other said they did, but it was all spread by presymptomatic carriers. My guess is there is an important distinction between asymptomatic and presymptomatic. People who never get symptoms have immune systems that are winning against the virus and don’t shed much. People who will get symptoms are losing against the virus and shed a lot more. Of course there is no way to distinguish between a- and pre- symptomatic people until after the fact.
    As I said, this is just a guess and I would be interested in the opinion of someone more knowledgable.

    those darned kids

    phoenix: your two cents on the commentamania (thanks, raúl!) are some of the most insightful yet, and deserve at the very least to be adjusted to the CPI. i’m gnu here (not a rhinoceros, thank you), and kinda came in with three feet forward. thank god d&d showed up in time to distract ;+). i, too, hope they continue to post…

    those darned kids

    sorry for the extra, but i don’t want to seem rude. at the end of post 82798 i was sincerely trying to say that d&d’s comments were most welcome from my point of view.

    D Benton Smith


    A few points about your points :

    Raul sets the tone and agenda, of his own free will I presume, by means of the news aggregation at the start of each edition.

    I’ve been posting in fits and starts for a little over 8 years, in comparison to your 1 year. That affords me no special privileges nor does it make my opinion or druthers any better than yours . . . but it does give me a much longer perspective, and I think TAE is toddling along just fine.

    I am sure that this place has its fair share of curmudgeons, delicate egos, prima donnas and ranters, but probably no ordinary and outright trolls at the moment that I know of .

    Yeah, things get wound up a little tight from time to time but then Raul raps our knuckles and most of us calm down.

    I absolutely do not share your opinion that there are only 3 worthy regular posters currently active. Even if that were true you have not showed the rest of much reason to accept your presumptuous claim to know these unnamed posters might be.

    Earn your spurs, cowboy. Start posting. I’ll read your stuff and decide for myself if you’ve got the chops to make such a call.

    Doc Robinson

    TAE Summary: “UK Government Report… the overall risk of dying from the Delta variant in the UK is 2.5x higher if you are unvaccinated.”

    … but if you look a little deeper at the most recent GOV.UK report, and look at the data for the younger people (<50) separately from the older people (50+), then the picture changes significantly. The number of deaths is probably not large enough to make any definitive conclusions, but here’s what the current numbers say:

    For those younger than 50, the (delta variant) case fatality rate for the vaccinated is about 1.5 times higher than for the unvaccinated. The survival rate is very high for both vaccinated and unvaccinated, 99.95% and 99.97% respectively, for the <50 age group.

    For those age 50 and older, the case fatality rate for the unvaccinated is about 6 times higher than for the vaccinated. The survival rate is about 98% for the vaccinated and 94% for the unvaccinated, for the 50+ age group.

    Calculations using data from Table 5

    Delta cases (1 Feb – 2 Aug, 2021)
    <50, unvaccinated — 147,612
    <50, vaccinated 2 doses — 25,536
    50+, unvaccinated — 3,440
    50+, vaccinated 2 doses — 21,472

    <50, unvaccinated — 48
    <50, vaccinated 2 doses — 13
    50+, unvaccinated — 205
    50+, vaccinated 2 doses — 389

    Case Fatality Rate
    <50, unvaccinated — 48/147,612 = 0.033%
    <50, vaccinated 2 doses — 13/25,536 = 0.051%
    50+, unvaccinated — 205/3,440 = 5.96%
    50+, vaccinated 2 doses — 389/21,472 = 1.81%

    Survival Rate
    <50, unvaccinated — 100% – 0.033% = 99.97%
    <50, vaccinated 2 doses — 100% – 0.051% = 99.95%
    50+, unvaccinated — 100% – 5.96% = 94.04%
    50+, vaccinated 2 doses — 100% – 1.81% = 98.19%

    SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England
    Technical briefing 20, 6 August 2021

    madamski cafone

    Well, I feel a need to resonate with DBSmith.

    “The 3rd and, very often, final stage of blog evolution happens when the blog’s controversial subject matter becomes visible enough to attract skilled trolls who’re being paid to sabotage the blogs effectiveness. This ignites the comment section – which, by now, has become just an Echo Chamber that radiates heat but no light – as the majority of your posters help out the trolls by arguing with them!”

    Yup. Mobs get distracted from their glorious fight against evil by finding little guys they can stone to death. Doesn’t matter if the little guy “deserves” stoning or not. It’s a waste of time at best and a degenerate disintegration of the “glorious revolution” at worst.

    “Let me offer you a suggestion: Will WordPress allow you to limit all posters to one post per day? As you saw yesterday your plea for reason and moderation – to say nothing of usefulness by commenters – was universally agreed to and then completely ignored.”

    I took your suggestions seriously until reading this. Lord how our egos crave absolutes.

    An observation: in order to stop an echo-chamber auto-immune response from like-minded discussion groups against trolls, a sort of cytokine discussion storm, you point out certain troll-encouraging behaviors, then use this logic this to justify near-Stalinist extremes of behavior limitation, using typical Stalinesque Hyperbole of the Absolute.

    How we love to join crusades if we can run a few non-affiliates* off and in the process enhance our sense of group identity. Team TAE! Team TAE! *(I should add ‘perceived as such’ to that sentence, for some people here do feel affiliation with the posters who’ve been presented as Socially Unacceptable comrades. When it comes to ostracism and proscription that is unjust, unforgiving, and harmful, we seem amply able to learn from the examples shown by Fauci et al and apply them on each other here. *(alienating them almost to the point of deeming themhomo sacer .

    Want to see how vakzinasis can be so mindlessly blindly oppressive to anti-vakzies? Watch us here and study. We are teaching it to ourselves and each other.

    “Stronger measures are needed I think.”

    Oh yes. STRONGER measures. Let’s get tough. I’ll provide the chew-toys. 🙂

    It is easy to dismiss deflationista and democritus as mere trolls. Trolls, even paid trolls, they may well be, but they’re also genuine people with their own views. Perhaps they rather enjoy their alleged work because it endorses their learned confirmation biases (which in turn helps them to be blind to the flaws we perceive in what appears to be deceptive data).

    Perhaps part of the sincere motivation they may feel for their work is how their ‘targets’ respond to them viciously, wantonly, more or less like an angry mob. (Oh, they ask for it, come in swinging, but “then they fight you, then they win”, they in this case being the alleged trolls; but we choose to echo their behavior, ensuring them at least some degree of victory.) This makes it that much easier for them to cling to their confirmation biases.

    Moral: It’s easier to swat flies than clean up the yard shit attracting them in the first place.

    Meanwhile, having rejoined FB via my original birth name, and avoiding politics, I nonetheless got reprimanded today for making this joke to my best friend in high school. I won’t link to the FB page lest I trigger anyone’s allergies, but here’s the skinny:


    My friend is scarcely visible over his parents’ heads, aiming a toy gun at the camera. (The father is the guy who didn’t stop in Beirut when ordered to by a Brit UN peacekeeper. Major stud.)

    I wrote:

    You’re the sniper hding behind your parents, I see. Look at them. Like a Hollywood screen shot.
    This received 2 Likes and a big laughy face from my friend.

    I followed with:

    I can tell cuz he’s aiming at me.
    More Laughs/Likes.

    Then I finished with:

    blaster boy

    Rebel scum. I’ll blast you off your Daddy’s head!

    FB notified me in 2 minutes, max, that:
    Your comment goes against our Community Standards on violence and incitement
    No one else can see your comment.
    We have these standards to prevent and disrupt offline harm.


    I say: don’t be like FB. Negotiate. Engage one another specifically, politely, honestly with your concerns. Don’t form pecking cliques, pls. I can take it, I’m used to being picked on. But it’s bad for all of us. “Pls,” he implored, putting on a Jon Stewart “I am NOT a lizard person!’ Stewart skin suit, “stop. Please, please, please stop. You’re hurting us in your attempts to help us.”

    As Dr. D would say, “SO much helping.”


    You have, at the moment, 3 – count ‘em – 3 regular posters who are an asset to TAE. Period.

    We have many more than 3. And I don’t think we have any trolls.

    I have confidence that people will solve the issues themselves. They got carried away for a moment.

    This site has existed since January 2008. We’ve been through many cycles of many things.

    Doc Robinson

    Correction to my post above:

    For those age 50 and older, the case fatality rate for the unvaccinated is about 3 times higher (not 6 times) than for the vaccinated.

    Dr. D

    Royal DUTCH Shell.

    The CDC has no power at all. They are a (private) advisory body. If they have any power, it would have to come from Congress, but we always have tension between Congress who says “go forth” and standing bureaucracy that makes up 10,000 specific (illegal) rules to help friends they defend with infinite state lawyers, then must be sued within an inch to stop them. This is similar to the Federal Reserve. Now if people ACT as if they, CDC, whoever, have any power at all, States play along as we have so far, well…there you go, you ceded all your rights although S.C. said totally, laughably illegal. But legally, very little power, although they’re claiming total power over all space, time, and reality. …Kind of like the UK supreme Court did.

    Both have been reported and there’s no binary on/off for contagion, but my diagnosis was that Covid had essentially no asymptomatic spread, same as all other diseases ever. Now it depends: on the Diamond Princess they locked you in a room with someone having it: no spread 80% of the time anyway. On the other hand, a pre-symptomatic or dragging-around person unaware might spread to a cancer patient with no immune system. SeeWhutImean? But generally, no spread, like always, physics still works and was not suspended for the Simpsons’ Cat Disease. (Cats get Covid. RUSSIAN cats.)

    Two more problems present: one, it appears and was argued that BECAUSE vaxxed don’t get sick they are now far more likely, even everyday COVID super spreaders. Forever. Maybe so. Two, the TESTS DON’T WORK, so how would you ever figure out #1 until you go back and do it all again correctly? We’re not even sure we have the right COVID for PCR, much less Delta, although I disagree it’s — never — been sequenced. That’s how we, the UN Bioweapons director, Cornell, could all tell pretty quick it was a bioweapon. But you know nothing until you test correctly, which we never have once. Careful what you know.

    …And now as you say, you have a problem: How sick? How symptomatic? We asked this early too, but no one’s created a good 1-100 number system for “bad” and even “dead” is well-contested. Obesity was #1 comorbidity, do they look at interested in saving anyone? Nope. They’ve had 18 months, did they train nurses, open hospitals, get the National Guard ready for the winter? Not on your life. Nurses are quitting in droves over general conditions and treatment, nevermind Covid. Cuomo or anyone could solve these problems in 30 days. Nope. Nada finger. Blame dat dere guyz! He’s whut done it!

    Well when this — probably ADE — hits like a hammer next month as it’s hit Iceland, you can all think about the nurses you’ve driven out, sitting home, or working as insurance adjusters waiting not to be assaulted beside every bed. But when there was a blizzard last year, and winter is coming, and then I punched out the windows, see, that’s an Pure Act of God nobody could have seen coming or avoided. …Except for literally everyone like me and Joe NASCAR can see it clear. If they tried to solve it instead of running around blaming others like weasel bureaucrats, it would be easily (if inconveniently) solved. Suit yourself. Change only comes from work.


    On asymptomatic transmission:

    Full testimony of former HHS Covid Adviser: ‘Asymptomatic transmission more myth than reality’

    Here is a paper on transmission of the virus in households that appears to state that asymptomatic transmission is rare (0.7%) compared to symptomatic transmission (18%). I suppose it is all how you define symptomatic.

    The whole origin of the asymptomatic angle came, if I remember correctly from Christian Drosten in Germany, where there was an instance of a woman from China who was diagnosed supposedly without symptoms. However, it later came to light that the woman was taking some form of medication that lessened her symptoms, so the asymptomatic claim is now in question. But at this point it is firmly embedded into the narrative.


    @ Doc Robinson

    Correction of link

    SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England
    Technical briefing 20, 6 August 2021

    Table 5. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of confirmed and provisional Delta cases in England by vaccination status
    (1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021)

    Doc Robinson

    Regarding presymptomatic/asymptomatic, Swiss Policy Research looked at multiple studies. This issue ties into the mask mandate issue.

    Pre-symptomatic transmission is real. But face masks still don’t work.

    Because many authorities justified mask mandates with pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic coronavirus transmission, many skeptics and critics tried to argue against the existence or importance of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission. But pre- and asymptomatic transmission is real for the same reason that face masks don’t work: aerosols…

    In contrast to transmission by pre-symptomatic people (i.e. a few days or hours before symptom onset), transmission by people who remain fully asymptomatic is a bit more complex to evaluate, because this group includes some people with a low viral load, which makes them less contagious. In addition, fully asymptomatic people are much more difficult to detect. However, nobody knows beforehand if they will develop symptoms or not, and as a Swedish doctor recently showed, even fully asymptomatic transmission has been documented in several carefully designed studies.

    In conclusion, pre-symptomatic aerosol transmission is very real and has played an important role in driving the coronavirus pandemic. For the very same reason, face masks, ‘temperature screening’, reactive lockdowns, and even ‘contact tracing’ (beyond the very early phase) have not worked.


    “The abundance of this speech-generated aerosol, combined with its high viral load in pre- and asymptomatic individuals, strongly implicates airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 through speech as the primary contributor to its rapid spread.” (‘Breathing, speaking, coughing or sneezing: What drives transmission of SARS-CoV-2?’, Stadnytskyi et al, JIM, June 2021)

    Postscript II

    The Australian coronavirus outbreak in June 2021 confirmed the key role played by pre-symptomatic aerosol transmission: in a major Sydney cluster, a pre-symptomatic person infected an entire birthday party of 24 people; a pre-symptomatically infected flight attendant went on five domestic flights before testing positive; and an infected nurse traveled for 10 days before testing positive, having already infected several of her contacts.

    Postscript III

    Even in hospitals, pre-symptomatic aerosol transmission may drive outbreaks: “In this context, our cases consolidated the importance of presymptomatic transmission in the nosocomial outbreak, suggesting

    that the contact tracing period should be as early as 4 to 5 days before symptom onset.” (Jung et al, ICJ, June 2021)

    Pre-symptomatic transmission is very real


    @ Rototillerman
    Lots of good info at the link you provided

    Full testimony of former HHS Covid Adviser: ‘Asymptomatic transmission more myth than reality’

    You just cannot discuss this asymptomatic issue without factoring in the very flawed RT-PCR test with its 97% to 100% false positives at cycle counts (Ct) of 34 to 35 and above (optimal Ct of 24 to 25 denotes real infectiousness and predictive of serious outcomes). This disastrous RT-PCR test cannot be omitted from mention, for it was part of the ‘asymptomatic’ deception.
    it was evident that the RT-PCR tests had large numbers of false positive results when Thermal Cycle Thresholds of greater than 30 were used. This led to erroneous quarantines and closures when a positive test emerged. In fact, as Dimitri Mouliou states: “New technologies have loss of standardization as the countless PCR kits vary in methods and cutoff values, thus, test results are paralleled in unassociated weights, and a realistic comparison between cases is trammeled. Thus, by preserving the existence of misleading COVID-19 cases in such a way, [the] scientific community is being prevented from clear-sighted advances. Since PCR assay cannot distinguish between active and residual RNA, a better assay … needs to be designed.”
    We became aware early on that a cycle threshold (Ct) of 24 was the limit in RT-PCR testing, and everything above the limit was likely to be a false positive, picking up viral dust, fragments, old coronavirus, old recovered infection, etc. We knew the CDC had set the Ct at 40, and this contributed to the hundreds of thousands and millions of positive cases that were not positive, leading to wrongful policy mandates of school closures and unnecessary quarantine.
    Ballan and Tindall further explain that “a person showing no symptoms of Covid-19 may test positive for SARS-CoV-2 on a PCR test, which doesn’t necessarily mean that they are infectious. There are four ways in which this can happen: i) the test may give a false positive result due to several faults in the testing process or in the test itself (the person is not infected), ii) the person may have recovered from Covid-19 in the last three months (the person is not currently infected but dead debris of the virus are being picked up by the test), the person may be pre-symptomatic, i.e, the person is infected but still in the early stages of the disease and has not yet developed symptoms, and iv) the person may be asymptomatic, i.e. the person is infected but has pre-existing immunity and will never develop symptoms”.

    TAE Summary

    @Doc Robison
    Thanks for that information. I think people underestimate the importance of aerosol transmission and ventilation and it hasn’t been made a focus of policy like it should have.
    Papers like this show that the louder you speak the more aerosols you emit. It sounds like a joke but a measure that would be more effective than masking would be to say no speaking or maybe just talk softly in this establishment.

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