Debt Rattle October 20 2022
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- This topic has 68 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 7 months, 1 week ago by Polemos.
October 20, 2022 at 10:54 pm #118927OroborosParticipantOctober 20, 2022 at 10:56 pm #118928OroborosParticipantOctober 20, 2022 at 11:08 pm #118929
Dr. Theresa Tam must be the unhealthiest, and fucking ugliest, looking health official.
Oh, I know, I’m not allowed to say that – so shoot me!
The days of “setting an example” have gone in public life, they are all corrupt, mindless goons. They are too weak to keep themselves healthy, too weak to live a disciplined life. They take out their internal struggles on us, it makes them feel better, even more so if that involves killing people.October 20, 2022 at 11:19 pm #118930
The days of “setting an example” have gone in public life, they are all corrupt, mindless goons. They are too weak to keep themselves healthy, too weak to live a disciplined life. They take out their internal struggles on us, it makes them feel better, even more so if that involves killing people.
All constituent of the CULTures they represent ~ If “The People” were otherwise, they wouldn’t “consent” to such fetid monkey business.October 20, 2022 at 11:45 pm #118931Maxwell QuestParticipant
I too remember looking into the Obama birth certificate fiasco at the time and came to the same conclusion as you: that it was a hastily contrived fake in order to shut down the he-wasn’t-born-in-america crowd.
I wasn’t a PDF expert, but some of the software I worked on while in high tech would generate postscript documents on the fly to avoid the errors that often occurred with human transcription. After watching an expert tear into the PDF version of Obama’s BC, I was convinced it was fake. Another tell was when the document was quickly removed from the White House website and the story memory holed. Whenever the subject came up, which it has a few times over the years, I would always state that there was a great deal of technical evidence that it was a fake. This would typically be followed by a short pause in which the other person would reply, “You’re kidding, right?”.
Evidence is evidence no matter what the media, investigative committees, or fact checkers say. So far, I’ve not heard a good reason for why the document was pieced together in multiple layers, instead of a flat image one would expect from a scan.
So, should I believe a government expert on TV who has every reason to lie, or my own judgement based on years of experience in the technical field? I remember thinking at the time, “Something is rotten in Denmark. They must really want this guy in the White House for some reason.”October 20, 2022 at 11:51 pm #118932
Cherry picking a few photos of isolated spots in the US as a valid reason for young Iranians to not want to have Western lifestyles won’t fly with me.
I myself myself have visited the US several times and lived there continually for about four years , three and a half years as an illegal alien after over staying my six month tourist visa. Admittedly that was back in the eighties but even then there were some rather bad places that I would not wanted to have lived in permanently , Oakland in the Bay Area for example. The bus station in Chicago was the scariest place on earth I have ever been. I am pretty sure that those areas are probably worse by quite a bit but I am also sure that the majority of the country is still very liveable.
I still have friends there , one lives in Stockton , another in Chicago , another has moved from Hawai to California , to Florida and back to Hawaii again over the last fifteen years , we are in touch regularly , I don’t just live in a doom and gloom media bubble.
On YouTube I have a sub to a few young Russians who also would like to live in the West and have a more liberal lifestyle. One young lady did live there and would love to return there , to California , it is a long term trend, people from many countries want to move to the West , it is happening before our eyes. I now see Africans and Indians in the small town close to where I live. Your borders are open and millions are pouring in , if the state of the West is as bad as you try to portray , why would they be fighting and risking death to get in?
I have visited and lived in about fifteen countries over the years , I saw the introduction of satellite TV in Asia , I sat in a room with very poor village folk in a remote island of Indonesia a place of intense poverty where life was extremely hard and watched Miami Vice along with them. Can you imagine the impact it had on those children and adults who still travelled about in dug out canoes?
Western media has penetrated every corner of the globe that is why folk are breaking the doors down to get to the West.
Iranians in Shiraz live a hard life. Chemical engineers are driving taxis and living with their extended families for most of their life. The country was in a terrible drought . the local river had not had a flowed for ten years and all the ground water was gone, hundreds of thousands of acres of macadamia trees were dead in the fields, a little like the Western US is now. Some people still move their produce around with handcarts and animals. Life is a real struggle.You no doubt will say that my description sounds just like the US however in the US there is diversity and places you can move to with better opportunities, if you are not fucked up on fentanyl that is. Iranians don’t have that opportunity in their country that is why many immigrate and many of those immigrants are very successful too.They know that if the regime is deposed there is a chance of the sanctions being lifted and their economy will have a chance to flourish . The young protestors of today did not live through the Shah or the Revolution just as young Russians never lived through Soviet times, they want to have a more liberal Western life style, right or wrong. Who am I to tell them they should not?
On the subject of Iran it is interesting that the Russians who have been bullshiting us for quite a while now about how their industrial base and technology is so advanced are now getting their drones supplied from Iran , Russia is a country that has been free to pursue it’s economic goals without hinder until recently and Iran has been under powerful sanctions since the fall of the Shah , yet Iranian military tech surpasses Russian military tech , go figure just how “advanced” Russian tech is. They have put all their tech and rubles into the hypersonic nukes and neglected the rest of their arsenal , banking on using their superior nuke capability to bluff the rest , won’t work I am afraid. The rest of the world won’t and shouldn’t kowtow to nuclear threats , MAD still exists.
Pepe is a bullshitter , makes up what he thinks will sell , talk your book and cash the cheques is the standard of the day.
Regarding the industrialisation of food production I remember reading Carson’s Silent Spring when I was a kid. My house and land here where I live has a small forest and many other trees surrounding it , right now I can hear a wattle bird singing, there are blackbirds, kookaburras , white and black cockatoos, an amazing display of birdlife. The fact is that industrial farming has been so successful that the population on the planet has increased seven hundred percent in my lifetime. Will it last , maybe not, but the non-stop freaking about what might happen in the future and the poisonous state of our food is obviously another case of talking and selling , it is a market that is catered for at this point in time. The oceans are where the real devastation has occurred. There are more people living longer than at any time in history.
The use of one or more false flag tactical nukes may be a very smart move for either side to deploy to try to gain an advantage in the Ukraine situation. The question is which side has a better chance of convincing the world that they were not the perpetrators. If the West can place the blame on Russia then Russia’s war financing will be immediately withdrawn by China and India, they will become international pariahs and it will be regime change on. If Russia could convince the world it was the West then the same applies except the globalists will still be in power even if there is a change in government.
A tactical nuke is not a big deal if it does not escalate , escalation is the dangerous side of the operation ,Intel folk on both sides will be doing their game-theory on that. Russia may and definitely should “win” on the ground but NATO will be bigger and stronger than ever , Putin’s actions have guaranteed that the very thing he was trying to prevent will come about in a much larger and more pervasive way. Turkey is the big winner at this point , playing both sides of the game ,one foot in NATO and the other foot in Russia , both sides kissing Erdo’s arse.
Funny how amongst all the screeching by Russia about the Uky nazis they never explain why there are nazis in Ukraine. Where did these nazis spring from? Why do they hate Russia so much? Why did they join Germany against the Russians? The entire worlds media is silent about it , why? It is almost as if there is no history between the Russians and the Ukys , as though the world only began with the Maidan , before that…nothing.It is obvious now that the non-Russians in Ukraine , allegedly about eighty percent did not and do not want to live under their old masters any more , they too want to look West and live the lifestyles they see on TikTok and tv. It is obvious that the majority of East European states till remember and hate the Russians for the abuse they suffered under them behind the ‘Iron Curtain. Again the media is silent, no back ground history is being floated , history never happened! Who ever heard of Katyn or the Holodomor just two of the horrendous events dished out by the now saint-like Russians. The people still remember what the media has forgotten. Every mention of the neo-nazis should include the back story of how they came into existence and how they lost as many Ukrainians to the Russians as the Jews did to the NAZIS.The Jews now rule the world while Ukraine is a sacrificial lamb, go figure.
Re Israel v Russia , interesting fact,
“As of 2022, approximately 15% of the Israeli population is Russian-speaking, and the Russian-speaking community accounts for 15 percent of Israel’s eligible voters. Ze’ev Khanin surmised that Russian Jews in Israel tend to be politically conservative, estimating that 50 to 60 percent support the Likud Beiteinu party.”
Yes a whole lot of the murderous bastards who treat Palestinians like subhuman vermin are Russians! Russian Jews the ones that Stalin and Hitler didn’t get. That is why Israel and Russia are in a tangle. That is why Russia lets Israel do whatever it wants in the occupied territories and in Syria without lifting a finger. That is why Israel is conflicted about Ukraine , Israel and Russia beneath the surface are close allies , what happens to Israel is of intense importance in Russia as the small minority of Jews still live there are immensely rich and powerful , they control the Russian mafia for example as well as making up a large proportion of the oligarchs, even after Putin booted out so many. Of course the are Israel/Zionist supporters too , so Putin has a lot to think about in that regard.
“Jews in Russia have historically constituted a large religious and ethnic diaspora; the Russian Empire at one time hosted the largest population of Jews in the world.”
You might remember that they had a Jewish philosopher , a Mr. Marx who gave them a new political/economic system that they called Bolshevism which was also called Comintern it was responsible for the murder and enslavement of millions of people in Eastern Europe. Putin was one of their operatives and still weeps for the loss of the Soviet empire . He denied Gorby a state funeral and never attended.
The world is a complicated place but we never get any nuance from our media , just black and white for the sheeple.October 21, 2022 at 12:02 am #118933
Oh yeah ,did not Russia sign an alliance with the Nazis and did they not invade Poland to gather? and was it not Germany that reneged , not Russia?October 21, 2022 at 12:31 am #118934
“Something is rotten in Denmark. They must really want this guy in the White House for some reason.”
Wasn’t the first time a blatant selection for the Whitey House took place, nor was it (nor will be) the last 😐October 21, 2022 at 12:42 am #118935DoraParticipant
“Yes but like all frauds I have seen they can’t stop and won’t stop until they are forced to stop. In corporate frauds we had regulators but in this fraud the regulators are in on it…interesting conundrum and only massive public outcry can stop this. This is a grind, there will be no movie story ending. No one coming to save you. We save ourselves. That’s why I focus on the marginal mind. There is a tipping point. Let’s accelerate that all of us collectively one mind at a time. ”October 21, 2022 at 12:57 am #118936October 21, 2022 at 1:16 am #118937DoraParticipant
This reckless action is final proof of the cynicism, corruption + capture of a once exemplary public health agency. ACIP members have demonstrated that fealty to their pharma overlords eclipses any residual concerns they may harbor for child welfare.https://t.co/UkRQBxAvo2
— Robert F. Kennedy Jr (@RobertKennedyJr) October 20, 2022October 21, 2022 at 1:37 am #118938₿oogalooParticipant
I am happy to see Liz Truss gone. But I feel like she is getting off too easy. I was expecting her failure to be far more dramatic, far more spectacular — but she didn’t last long enough for that.October 21, 2022 at 2:04 am #118940
This reckless action is final proof of the cynicism, corruption + capture of a once exemplary public health agency. ACIP members have demonstrated that fealty to their pharma overlords eclipses any residual concerns they may harbor for child welfare.October 21, 2022 at 2:15 am #118941WESParticipant
A bad day for the chiodren in the USA. They lost to corruption 15-0. Only in Demark are the non-vaxxed children now safe. Sadly Canada is still pushing for children to be vaxxed. Probably the same in the rest of the west.
So the lettuce won! Interestingly Liz Truss’s first budget tried to increase economic growth, the opposite of the Build Back Better agenda of reducing economic growth to reduce energy usage to transition to a greener dark world. She quickly paid the price for doing so. She was too conservative! Note the key role the Bank of England (on behalf of the City of London) played in her ouster.
Sad to say in the land, where the water goes down the toilet bowl clockwise, global cooling is currently winning. My little woodstove can’t put out enough green energy to hold global cooling at bay any longer.
Musk must be looking forward to firing the over paid fact checkers at twitter!
The Ukrainians need to keep making more successful suicide attacks every day, until the mid-term elections are over, so the Dems can win. The Nazis stand behind the hapless conscripted Ukrainian soldiers and shoot any that try to leave the battlefield. Looks more like a Lose-Lose situation for everyone except for the Nazis.
Electing more RINOs won’t change anything.October 21, 2022 at 3:56 am #118942
I appreciate the perspective Redneck offers. I’m not someone who either had the resources, nor the connections, nor the confidence to travel to the far-flung places humans find this planet has to offer. But I have walked and moved among the wealthy and the poor, the middle and the corporate in my local area of humans, enough to experience places where humans have imploded their environments either through destructive, drug-fueled depression or conformist, controlling class-structure. So there’s a sense in which I get the point Redneck offers against Dr D’s point, which I also completely understand and agree with: it is in their ingenuity and their imagination for humans to make art and life as well as war and poverty. We are legacies to a long and very complex history of forms of consciousness whose spiritual contours allow them deep access to the fundamental creative work of Being: we are participants in the destruction and the creation, fellow co-creators, co-destroyers. Our is a Dialectic Engine, linking together yet unsuturing our mental and virtual reality from the material and formal worlds. A vast and aged tree that dwarfs me in an old growth forest has a hardened and inert core surrounded by a thin surface of tubes and vesicles and hydrostatic pressures; the thin life of human virility envelopes surfaces of rust, ruin, rot, and rats; once-organized chaos slowly giving way, as best all matter can, to the inevitable return to formlessness once foundational energies devoted to order and efficiency no longer rule or have dominion.
One sees his point, and the other sees his point, and both have two eyes to see with, two ears to listen with, and two nostrils to smell with, but only one mouth, or one POST textbox on a WordPress install, with which to offer a unified vision of what it looks like to be right. We can take in two ways, but wrestle within to make it one, then give back in one way, what others will either incline or disengage, depending all along on what side of the bed they slept on, or if alone.
Depth comes from taking in from more than one vector, orientation from taking in from more than one dimension, universality from taking in from more than frame, choice from giving back as the movement of one’s will what you have digested of the universe’s love poured into all those holes and openings and receptive wombs pointed outwards —all your Matrices, for you are the body for its confinement and festering gestation. The Matrix might be a prison, a tool for enslavement, but that’s because the person writing those stories hates his Mother and wishes she were Dead and Refined and Machined. When you love your Mother, and thank her for carrying you, you understand how you were always meant to be born and pushed violently out of the Matrix into the “desert of the real” where, now shed of your thin sliver of flesh and hydrostatic pressure, you recognize the void’s endless currents of living light —the real Spectrum before being “on the spectrum” meant you were somehow dysfunctionally adapted to the neurotypical insanity because you practiced a more “homegrown” form of solipsism they’ll call “autism”.
I understand why many people don’t think the Sun thinks and has feelings and dreams and engages in philosophical speculation about matters irrelevant to them. They don’t stop for a moment to wonder relly why and how their own consciousness rides on waves generated from tiny compressed electromagnetic spirals and loops held in place by fatty ion gates actively networking in the wet spaces they call their bodies, so the idea that the vast and spatially more extended waves visibly generated in massive electromagnetic spirals and loops across its surface might signal something analogous to their own self-reflection won’t ever occur to them until someone helps them to see how they are what rides the light, all the way down, like falling into a gravity well all over again, into the melting mirror and on through to the other side, where we find our fellow Leibniz pointing out from inside the Monad we’re sharing with him that it’s only One, only one reflecting surface endlessly repeating in infinite curvature a reality that’s our own, a cavitation apart from the void rapidly losing surface tension and imminently collapsing from the pressure of Nothing, the inevitable formlessness returning. If I think, and the Sun thinks, I know the Earth thinks, and prays, and tells jokes, and hates, and chooses, and admires, and fears, and learns to overcome even what it is to be a fallen star trapped in an earth’s body. And if I and my local friends are similar enough, though wildly different in our perspectives, I skip ahead orders of magnitude and ponder about the Galaxy, remembering what it was to ride the waves of something so much older and so much wider and so much more enclosing —a memory only a pixel amidst the ocean of noise on the inside screen of my monad. my virtual ego tunnel.
I get John Michael Greer’s dissent from the usual praise of Century of Self, and I recognize that Adam Curtis has to say the impossible-to-say while walking the fine line between creative dissent and institutional hegemony. I have watched Can’t Get You Out of My Head at least seven times, all eight hours of it, so I’m biased. It is such an impressive narrative and parallel to what I had been trying to teach my students about philosophy through original texts, literature, personal exploration, group conversation. I’m not sure I agree with Greer’s general take, and some of the comments there, that Curtis is oblivious to how Bernays and his concept of human manipulation has failed to achieve industry’s goals, when anyone who has watched Curtis knows the “… but then something unexpected happened” segue that shows how all these plans wash out and fail. What I take Curtis to be saying in this latest long documentary of our contemporary political world is that we are right back where we always are regarding dreams of technological progress giving way to the nightmares of social dissent —or is it the dreams of social progress giving way to the nightmares of technological dissent? (Keep permutating this) Like some Lucifer Principle at work, the more a hegemonic ideological apparatus “drills down” to refine its control over the finer grains of its constituents, the more its internal contradictions and inconsistencies and paradoxes arise, expressing themselves as individuals through self-assertion whose own existence challenges the fabrics and institutions of the spaces making possible those individuals in the first place. Machine learning might outpace human calculation, but human political reality turned over to machines reignites within the peopled machines and the machined people the same spiritual dilemmas plaguing the bureaucrats who trust the machines’ makers. And the people will run red lights when they notice the red lights malfunction.
As the lights turn off, the Sun will burn and think of a new recipe for brussel sprouts, and the Galaxy will wonder if the grandkids are eating healthy.October 21, 2022 at 4:01 am #118943
I appreciate the perspective Redneck offers.
Is it just me, or does it appear TAE has another sock puppet “personality”?
The style, stream-of-conscientious grammatical attack, pretty blatant actually 😐
RIM could we get an IP check on aisle three?!?October 21, 2022 at 4:56 am #118944choochParticipant
Every pro Russian blogger speaks of positive progress in the battle for Bakhmut, yet Musk directs a dig at Medvedev. Curious.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee. https://t.co/WRoNysmT8p
— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) October 21, 2022
A strategic withdraw from Kherson may happen soon. It would make strategic sense for the Russians to blow the dam after withdrawal and flood the region.
Meanwhile in Russia: anger and disappointment fill the studio, as the viewers are being prepared for the loss of Kherson and other territories. Host Olga Skabeeva bitterly questions why Russia was so wrong in the beginning, believing that Zelensky would run & NATO wouldn't help. pic.twitter.com/sQpxokXDSv
— Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews) October 19, 2022October 21, 2022 at 5:07 am #118945
if the state of the West is as bad as you try to portray , why would they be fighting and risking death to get in?
Because the west is in decline but is not yet worse than some countries in black Africa and south/central America. People still see the west as better than the third world, also the western governments hand out tons of cash to people, something that just does not happen in the third world. You see this in Hong Kong. Maids from Indonesia and Phillipines come to HK to work as unskilled labour, not because HK is so nice – most do not have their own rooms, they sleep in the corridor and are away from their children – but because they earn more money than they would do back home. Although no HK local would work for maid wages, the maids will do it because they make more money than at home and can send it all home to their families.October 21, 2022 at 5:12 am #118946
The country was in a terrible drought . the local river had not had a flowed for ten years and all the ground water was gone, hundreds of thousands of acres of macadamia trees were dead in the fields, a little like the Western US is now.
Interesting. When I was working in Saudi Arabia the people had worked out that they could use oil to create water – desalination – and therefore most of Saudi was fed with desalinated water, including the date farms. I am surprised that it was worth watering the date palms but not the macadamia trees.October 21, 2022 at 5:24 am #118947
I saw the introduction of satellite TV in Asia , I sat in a room with very poor village folk in a remote island of Indonesia a place of intense poverty where life was extremely hard and watched Miami Vice along with them. Can you imagine the impact it had on those children and adults who still travelled about in dug out canoes?
Okay, I will come to the point: this is such bullshit. When I grew up in Africa in the 60s/70s/80s, also a third world location, the people would watch western movies, such as the typical Bond movies, that were often projected on sheets in a school or sometimes outside using portable projectors (talking 60s). The local villagers and us kids would simply enjoy them. Sure, the people in the films were much richer and had dream lifestyles compared to us, after all, Bond was screwing the most beutiful women in the world, but all this “impact on them” is just bullshit. To most of us, white or brown, the movies were a different world, a fantasy world, they had nothing to do with our daily lives, in fact they were so detached from our lives that nobody ever tried to compare. Similar to all the war movies they used to show, they too were meaningless in terms of a comparison to our lives. The Africans adopted the musical instruments created in the west and would be more interested in their music than in going to American.October 21, 2022 at 5:37 am #118948
You might remember that they had a Jewish philosopher , a Mr. Marx who gave them a new political/economic system that they called Bolshevism which was also called Comintern
I know you are a bonkers but Marx was a German. I am getting a hint that you have an ex who was Russian or left you for a Russian?October 21, 2022 at 7:11 am #118949
I’m surprised anyone took the time to read that Hillbilly’s overly dense regurgitated compositions ~ I barely made it through the few first sentences of a sampling of those overwrought paragraphs.
Seemed too pernicious to bother…
Doesn’t anyone else find it funny how the first person to really praise Redneck’s rants writes in the exact overactive & clearly agitated “style” 😐October 21, 2022 at 8:03 am #118964
You found me out! How did you know my ex was Russian?October 21, 2022 at 9:18 am #118967Dr. DParticipant
No, I understand. That wasn’t the point of either of them. The young won’t support the status quo that’s screwing them, they want to “Watch it all burn” as their exciting revolutionary ethos that gives them street (twitter) cred, and will simply stand back.
Sure there are plenty of places and opportunities left in America, even in the non-state-ordained parts. But you can’t compare, I dunno, the Smithsonian and the Hive, to some rural village in Iran or Indonesia. You should compare their rural village to ours. Or their city hardship, or aggregate, to ours. They’re successful because they’re motivated and work together, a thing no Americans of any culture do, except perhaps the Amish and the Ivy League. 2nd generation of immigrants, that’s gone, that community, and they collapse like the rest of us.October 21, 2022 at 9:27 am #118969
I understand why many people don’t think the Sun thinks and has feelings and dreams and engages in philosophical speculation about matters irrelevant to them.
Why would something as powerful and superior to humans mess around in the human form of spirituality? It has a superior form of thinking that you can only dream of understanding. Your form of self discovery, your spirituality, is so primitive compared to the sun that i doubt it would do anything other than squash you like an ant. After all, would you discuss spirituality with an ant? So why assume you are an equal – indeed you imply you are superior – to the sun?October 21, 2022 at 2:55 pm #118993
Veracious Poet, if you’re indicating that you think I’m someone’s sock puppet, you have little evidence to offer for it beyond your own demonstrated and admitted ignorance —are you saying you didn’t and won’t read what differs from what you expect to find?
If you do not understand what my points are, that’s understandable. I don’t write for newspapers or tweets. I’m probably coming from a very different perspective from the one you’re rutted into. Have you ever read John Stuart Mill, especially his work On Liberty? Here, it’s freely given to you, to challenge you and help you to strengthen your own views.
I do genuinely appreciate the offer of a perspective I do not share. That’s not “praise” for the opinion, although I am familiar enough with the ideological ruts people get themselves into to see how it operates, how it excludes, how it trivializes, how it denies, and how it weakens inevitably the mental and emotional and spiritual flexibility inherent to human experience. Immunologically speaking, I see why you want to select what fits your mental landscape to solicit the same self-reinforcing circle, but exposing yourself to a variety of viewpoints with thankfulness and openness will make you far stronger, through that destabilizing process of canalized immunological responses.
Are you against mandatory vaccinations? Do you think it’s dangerous to force people to exhibit only one antibody response, when the natural world presents to them many evolving and adaptive quasi-species swarms? Your mental health is a frame shift of the approaches you take with your physical health, and opening one’s self to the natural and cultivated ecosystems of the noetic worlds enhances your own mental and spiritual flexibilties and resilience.
If you like, as I’ve said, you can write me off as a crank or insane, or Discordian, or even an algorithmic robot. I also appreciate your willingness to share the viewpoint you have with others who disagree, even when you limit who and what you are out of an intermittent desire for orthodoxy in your surroundings.
aspnaz, I’m not sure if you’re criticizing me or the people I’m saying I understand as to why they ignore and do not contemplate life beyond the fences they’ve built for themselves. There is a sentence, and a paragraph, after the sentence you quote, and at no point am I saying that I am superior to the Sun, or the Galaxy. If you follow the link to Eduardo Viveiros de Castro’s paper in that sentence you quoted and read that paper, I think you’ll understand even deeper the perspective I am working from and so understand more broadly where I am coming from. That is why I linked it, after all.
Zhuangzi and Huizi were walking on the dam over the Hao, when the former said, ‘These thryssas come out, and play about at their ease – that is the enjoyment of fishes.’
The other said, ‘You are not a fish; how do you know what constitutes the enjoyment of fishes?’
Zhuangzi rejoined, ‘You are not I. How do you know that I do not know what constitutes the enjoyment of fishes?’
Huizi said, ‘I am not you; and though indeed I do not fully know you, you certainly are not a fish, and (the argument) is complete against your knowing what constitutes the happiness of fishes.’
Zhuangzi replied, ‘Let us keep to your original question. You said to me, “How do you know what constitutes the enjoyment of fishes?” You knew that I knew it, and yet you put your question to me – well, I know it (from our enjoying ourselves together) over the Hao.’
That said, I do discuss spirituality with ants and insects, even the plants and fungi and yeasts, and I spend time marveling with wonder at the dreams expressed through the distributed consciousness of the worms I raise —isn’t it kinda odd for you to ask rhetorically, through assuming implicitly, that one wouldn’t discuss spirituality with an ant while suggesting that it’s arrogant to overshoot one’s place by imagining you have nothing in common with something greater than one’s self? Why is it not arrogance to think you have nothing in common with the ant —what has she and their species of people ever done to you?
The insight the Zhuangzi offers in showing “the transformation of things”, in showing the frog in the well or the cicada under the leaf unable to understand the vision of the roc in flight above the vastness of the sky: perspective matters, because magnitudes matter, and what we ineptly perceive in the perceptions of others is still already there in our own ineptness when perceiving the perceptions in ourselves, so overcoming the one comes from contemplating and moving —actually moving, by handling and engaging and working— through what is already there, towards the effortlessness of flowing along with your Tao in its flowing along with the greater Tao. All the while, you vanish, it arises, and thus is one reborn.
The divine is within you, just as it is within them, all the varieties of ‘them’, and it is through that divinity we overcome the parafinite limitations imposing upon us by this material experience conducting us towards self-awareness, other-awareness, and towards the unity we have always already participated within.October 21, 2022 at 10:06 pm #119018
Why is it not arrogance to think you have nothing in common with the ant —what has she and their species of people ever done to you?
It is not about “what has their species ever done to you”, it is that you spout bullshit because we all know that unless you are on hallucinogenics you have to abide by the laws of science and cannot communicate with ants. Just because your spirituality lets you dream up all sorts of stuff, that does not make any of it remotely real or true to anybody other than yourself, so most people learn to keep their weird thinking to themselves because otherwise it portrays you as someone who cannot distinguish between the real and the imaginary, a kook. Sure, some people put their weird thinking into books to feed the weird thinking of those less creative than themselves, that is fine, but it is still not real and still has dubious value in the real world. The one thing that hallucinogenic thinking does is help the arrogance of humans, makes them feel above their place in the universe. Many humans find it very difficult to accept that they are just another animal, so they dream up al sorts of fantasies, special spirtuality powers (like talking to ants) but they are still just some minor species on one in a gazillion plants.October 21, 2022 at 10:08 pm #119019
laws of science > laws of nature
gazillion plants > gazillion planetsOctober 22, 2022 at 12:53 pm #119068
What is the law of science that says humans communicate with humans? Can you formalize it?
If “we all know” something, was it science that got “us” there? Is it science that informs you about what “we all know” or is it hyperbole, assumption, ideology, or speculation?
If you lack the tools or instruments to discern magnetic fields, do you know they exist? If you lack the sense receptors to discern electric current, do you know they exist? What is the phenomenological sensation in your consciousness of the lack of a dimension (as in, a space of freedom) or a modality (as in, a form of reality)?
Given contemporary physics now asserts the primacy of consciousness/agency prior to the material world (as in, consciousness produces the phenomena, not the materiality producing the consciousness), it is also true for you that all of the experience you are having “does not make any of it remotely real or true to anybody other than yourself,” because what you think you mean by ‘real’ and what you think you mean by ‘yourself’ remain occulted behind many hidden assumptions you feel unassailable.
I posted a passage from the Zhuangzi, and here you are, playing the role perfectly. Are you robot or are you dancer?
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