Cuckoo in the Coal Mine


Home Forums The Automatic Earth Forum Cuckoo in the Coal Mine

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 38 posts - 1 through 38 (of 38 total)
  • Author
  • #8484

    Ilargi: Long time TAE afficionado Skip Breakfast, whom we met in New Zealand 2 months ago, wrote a piece that I think will resonate with many of you,
    [See the full post at: Cuckoo in the Coal Mine]

    Nicole Foss

    My father and brother-in-law think I’m crazy as well, and I don’t even try to talk to some of my friends in Canada about this anymore. Their eyes glaze over the minute I open my mouth, and I know they’re not listening. It’s very sad. I can’t help people there, so I spend my time where I can help people, anywhere in the world where people are prepared to listen.


    I feel the same way.
    I cope by buying another shovel.
    That way, when the currently dim minded soul, shows up at my door hungry, with that you were right look, I will welcome them, feed them, then hand them a shiney new shovel and encourage them to expand the garden.

    Good hand tools are going to be more important then anything else.


    This aspect of knowing what’s to come is especially painful. Sometimes if the timing seems right, I might plant a seed, perhaps in jest. Even then, many find me strange, but that’s always been true.

    Much has been made of the intelligence an creative capacity of humans. In the end, however, we really are just clever apes. The tools of our conscious mind were developed over millions of years, under an array of circumstances. Coping with the collapse of industrial civilization was not in the tool kit for many people.


    @skipbreakfast…I can feel your heart ache. I,too, have stopped talking about the ” cesspool ” of finance, the terror I feel when I imagine broken supply lines etc…Just this week a smart, well off friend expressed her relief that she was fully invested in Canada’s CIBC bank, that CIBC bank is the most solvent bank in the world.she fels safe. I almost began a discussion of what solvency means to her but sighed instead and congratulated her on her smart investing. Oh such duplicity on my part.
    These days I recall a wise persaon reminding me that one can be right or one can be in relationship.
    To be fair TAE, lots of sites and people, have been warning of system risk for over four years and the system keeps on rolling, the can gets kicked forward again and again. Even I have folded my cards and left the table so to speak. After 4 years it is not unreasonable to conclude we either either wrong or mad fools.
    The current complacency is a sign, I think, of being ” at the top “?


    Whenever I bring it up anywhere, I get the fish eyes in response, the tell-tale sign the person I’m talking to is still swimming in the miasma of progress and growth, and I’m about to get eaten. That, or the repetitive head nod that says, I’m entertaining you right now, but you are NUTS. I don’t bother much anymore.

    I brought up Greece recently to my neighbor, who used to work for an environmental org. She replied by talking about how busy she was…last week. I said to my father, I’ve been a little pre-occupied with global economic meltdown. He shouted at me, “What the hell difference does that make to you!?” I said, I live on planet earth.

    But I hear all kinds of talk about Jesus’ return, aliens, and reptilian Illuminati overlords. Thought experiment: if 85-90% of humanity is wiped out in a generation because of war, pestilence, famine, cannibalism, nuclear meltdown, climate change, global economic collapse, with no sign of Jesus, aliens, or reptilian illuminati, are we still going to be talking about economic growth?

    Golden Oxen

    You folks being thought of as cuckoo or loony are lucky your close ones are so kind. Mine view me as a dunce. They are ” The Science Solves Everything Crowd”. I am a well intentioned meat head that is just too old to understand the new technologies. Have to admit there is a lot going on I am not aware of, or would have much trouble understanding if I was?


    Couple of phrases come to mind:

    pearls before swine, and, when their success depends on not knowing..

    Not piggish in the derogatory sense, just limited in understanding. But knowing, that’s a whole different thing.

    We, those who’ve learned a few things, believe we’ve discovered something not generally well known… don’t you suppose we’re not the first in history to have discovered things are not what they seem. And while our discovery has put us outside the norm, are we so sure we’re right that we’re willing to risk personal relationships??? Well, I have, and it’s not a good thing. I suppose I’ll be vindicated when TSHTF, but that’s just not enough compensation for me to strain friend and family relationships. Like I said, I have in the past but no more, as you have discovered.

    And we may be wrong! As unlikely as it seems, there may be no time when we’ll say “TS done HTF.” I’m sure each reader of TAE would prefer a slow realignment of our civilization rather than an abrupt end of one regime and the beginning of another.

    There are more forces at work upon us than we know. My favorite source for truth and understanding makes that clear. So while I prepare for the possible future that we all perceive, my hope that somehow, someway, we’ll muddle through is growing.


    I learned early on to not expect most folks to have any sort of realistic epiphany regarding the decline trend. People, by and large, are deeply invested in the courses they’re on; like little trains on tracks, their inertia and goal is oriented to not being derailed.. Greasing their rails generally makes them just hit the throttle harder.

    Sometimes at gatherings, I’ll drop a few hints at the course I’m on, and occasionally peak the interest of a fence-sitter, but more often it’ll result in silence, diversion, or a putdown (sometimes even antagonism). Folks don’t enjoy being jostled from their comfort zones, especially in times of uncertainty. They’ve been told (or told themselves) some powerful stories.

    Skip, regarding the family ranch, my family went through a similar process with a very different outcome. Located in an area of abundant water, great soil and moderate climate, my folks bought the place in the early ’70s anticipating the very decline/collapse we, here, anticipate. This was before ‘Limits To Growth’, Collapse… and most of the early predictions of the demise of industrial societies. They just called it as they saw it, and I marvel each day at their wisdom and choices. Both are gone now, and I’ve found myself picking up their standard and moving carefully forward. Well before she died about ten years ago, my mother gave me the courage (and the kick in the ass) to take the steps they were unable to; going off grid, developing the water systems, reducing our reliance on unsustainable external systems, and slowly showing the rest of the family that this property’s value goes far beyond any financial worth it may once have had. After 5 years of some infighting (and a bit of hell for me as I stood my ground), we managed to keep about 160 contiguous acres amongst five of the siblings, the largest share being mine and my wife’s. I pretty much wiped out my savings at the time, buying back land from my sisters that would have been sold. Since then, my brother and three sisters have built their homes here, and three of us are now living on the property full time. I’m the youngest.

    Sixteen years ago I left a good engineering job, sold my home and moved here full time because “one of us needs to be there to take care of OUR aging parents”, not as selfless an act as it may have looked at the time, but a little spin makes these things seem a bit less less crazy.

    I’ve had better success getting converts (or at least prompting some folks to move in the right direction) by just going about my business. Going off grid so long ago when PV was quite expensive, and making it work by adapting to much lower energy requirements; utilizing what is abundantly available locally; focusing on living without a myriad of external inputs; putting my family on a win-win course,, has had a deeper effect on those around me. Talk is cheap, as they say. Walking the walk, and being happier doing so successfully, has won more converts than any preaching I may have done.

    Folks come to me now (only a few, mind you) and I realize that they are, indeed, worried about our collective future despite whatever front they may assume. I merely offer proof that there are things they can be doing about it; alternatives that make sense under most any scenario. Our small community garden (four families) is considered one of the best, most productive (and beautiful) around; just one of our successes (and folks listen better in the quiet bounty of the garden). Positive reasons for change…

    Breaking the spell of industrial life requires time and a special kind of magic, and as you mention, brute force is usually counter-productive. Too bad that (IMO) time is so short. Fight the battles you can win, but don’t let it distract you. Keep it local, and consider what your response will be when the deniers come begging, admitting that you were right all along. I’m not sure how I’ll handle that time, but know I’ll think of something 🙂


    Interestingly enough, last week at the community market, quite a few people spontaneously remarked on the current situation(s).
    “Have you noticed how many homes are for sale now with no buyers”……”No-one spending any money at the market this year.”……”My husband and I both out of work, unheard of at this time of year here.”……..”The world (economic, climate, environmental, political situation) seems to be spiraling out of control”………These observations on the minds and lips of many here now. It is becoming more apparent to a lot more people that we humans have been going down an unfortunate road for far too long a time……..perhaps we’ve lost the ability to find our way back.


    Our society has been infantiliized by decades of consumerist propaganda as well as centuries of consistent mendacity about who we are and what we have been doing to our neighbors and the planet in the name of progress. Children can be quite cruel to any other child that wishes to “rain on their parade” by reminding them of responsible behavior and the calamitious consequrnces of irresponsible behaviour..

    Maslow’s hierarchy and the desire for peer group acceptance aside, visionaries always pay the price for seeing what the herd doesn’t want to see.

    When TSHTF, don’t expect gratitude for planting the seed. More likely, you will be accused of helping to bring about this calamity. If people aren’t reasonable now, consider what they will be like in a high stress survival situation.

    One other thought. If you seek vindication, you may be seeking to stroke your bruised ego. That is, of course, only natural because the abysmal state of denial that surrounds us can make us downright angry and vindictive towards the blind. I suggest you remember that you did the right thing in telling them about it. If the price of constant rejection is too high for you, then be silent but don’t be sad. You did the right thing and that is all that matters.

    Being a modern day Noah (without the ark) isn’t a lot of fun, is it? But you didn’t create this reality; you are only trying to deal with it honestly. The brainwashed are unable to do that.


    We are on a long and winding road, encountering many detours (short squeezes) on the trail up the shallow side of the cliff. But human nature practically guarantees that we will witness in our puny lifespans a major-fractal falloff. As to contrarian fatigue, Steve Hochberg recently reminded us that “..a screaming sell signal should not be ignored just because it is deafening.” As to detailed preemptive planning, let us recall Robert Burns’ “To A Mouse”:
    Small, crafty, cowering, timorous little beast,
    O, what a panic is in your little breast!
    You need not start away so hasty
    With argumentative chatter!
    I would be loath to run and chase you,
    With murdering plough-staff.

    I’m truly sorry man’s dominion
    Has broken Nature’s social union,
    And justifies that ill opinion
    Which makes thee startle
    At me, thy poor, earth born companion
    And fellow mortal!

    I doubt not, sometimes, but you may steal;
    What then? Poor little beast, you must live!
    An odd ear in twenty-four sheaves
    Is a small request;
    I will get a blessing with what is left,
    And never miss it.

    Your small house, too, in ruin!
    Its feeble walls the winds are scattering!
    And nothing now, to build a new one,
    Of coarse grass green!
    Both bitter and keen!

    You saw the fields laid bare and wasted,
    And weary winter coming fast,
    And cozy here, beneath the blast,
    You thought to dwell,
    Till crash! the cruel plough passed
    Out through your cell.

    That small bit heap of leaves and stubble,
    Has cost you many a weary nibble!
    Now you are turned out, for all your trouble,
    Without house or holding,
    To endure the winter’s sleety dribble,
    And hoar-frost cold.

    But little Mouse, you are not alone,
    In proving foresight may be vain:
    And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
    For promised joy!

    Still you are blest, compared with me!
    The present only touches you:
    But oh! I backward cast my eye,
    On prospects dreary!
    And forward, though I cannot see,
    I guess and fear!

    Create and relish the joy of the moment, dear friends!


    I’m sorry your family won’t listen to you about this, Skip. To have them just dismiss you like that must hurt. My brother will listen to me but he thinks I’m dead wrong but he doesn’t just cut me off. He makes jokes about it and the conversation turns to something else. He lives in a world of his own I think anyway. I expect him to be the one that comes to my door when it gets bad.

    But I have two other friends who have surprised me by agreeing that the world, at least the US, is sinking into a terrible depression. They might not acknolwedge the peak energy situation but they see pretty clearly what is coming in the economic realm.

    They are both depressed somewhat by the situation but not so they can’t live and function with some idea that they will get through it. One of them is quite open about what we face and has lived on the edges of poverty all her life anyway. She tell me that she’s not scared cause she’s been there before!

    I think people are so polarized angry and frightened that they can’t face the probabilities of collapse. I can hardly blame them.

    peace, Shamba


    We often think the most vulnerable are the poor in the increasingly unstable living conditions we encounter but here you have proof that the the most inflexible group of people because of the egotistical greed love prison they have built for themselves in their mind are the rich.
    The shape of things to come:–abc-news-topstories.html


    Now we all know how Noah must’ve felt. 😉

    I think empathy plays a role – some people have lots of it and others don’t have so much.

    When I bring this subject up, I always start out with the fraud that is debt based money because I can PROVE the mechanics of debt based money empower the lender (Big Finance Capital, Federal Reserve System) and push the borrower into a servitude and/or asset stripped state in about 2 minutes flat.

    There is no debate – but the most resistant I received was from a guy with a Masters in Finance… but he eventually came around and actually embraced the knowledge because his home country had been abused badly by Big Finance Capital and their corporate / government fronts and now he understood one of their key mechanisms more clearly.

    I can also prove, beyond all doubt, that the Federal Reserve lies about its mandate in order to criminally break Section 2A of the Federal Act to criminally blow the world’s largest credit bubble in human history and all the politicians, the entire MSM, the education system and every other establishment organization runs interference for the Fed’s criminal activity – knowingly or unknowingly.

    Now the implications behind THAT realization is to hard for even TAEers to respond to… the system is rigged and this is being done criminally and with malice aforethought.

    That’s how I know Ron Paul is controlled opposition – he portrays these criminals as “academics” who don’t know the real world.

    They know it quite well, Ron, thank you very much. They are on record CRIMINALS right out in the open!

    I don’t talk about reptilian people because I can’t prove it and, frankly, I don’t believe it and won’t believe it without some serious hard evidence.

    What does it matter? They ACT reptilian and they are criminals – they belong in jail and our monetary system needs to be freed from debt based societal slavery.

    There is only one solution.

    And you all aren’t going to like this any more than I do.

    An educated, informed populace is the ONLY solution.

    As Plato said, “The price good men [people] pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”

    I think one could make the argument that indifference to public affairs makes one an ignorant narcissist – which most definitely is not “good.”

    The solutions that I’ve developed include:

    1. Reject debt based money en masse. We, The People have to reject the debt based money criminal societal asset stripping operations across the globe. Note that the nations that don’t allow usury are being bombed into Central Bank submission, one by one.
    2. identify and prosecute the criminals – starting at the top. Big Finance Capital operatives behind the Federal Reserve get charged for treason for implementing debt based tyranny and for criminally breaking Section 2A of thge Federal Reserve Act and for lying about it 25 years running.
    3. Asset strip the ill gotten gains of this criminal class. Let their heirs work like the rest of us instead of kick back and devise more efficient ways to capture government and loot society.
    4. Nullify the fraudulent derivatives… the $100s of trillions of that toxic trash.
    5. Implement a real education system where people learned how to critically think and the evils of debt based money. Also, the true history of Big Finance Capital attempting to seize covert control of the government and trying to covertly kill off the poor.
    6. Properly limit government to its Constitutional foundations UNTIL such time that the gun and the jail cell of the government can be kept out of the hands of murdering, looting, lying, Machiavellian criminals – the exact state we find ourselves in today.
    7. An understanding that power corrupts, so any institution that begins to grow in power is IMMEDIATELY downsized by the economic decisions of the educated populace. People reject Wal-Mart and they buy at the local grocer. Sure, we pay a bit more – but there isn’t a GMO conspiracy to harm are health (the stores buy from local distributors, NOT multinational power mongers as well) and we might end up owning that grocery story that is in every neighborhood.
    8. Pay cash and starve the Big Finance Capital TBTF&J criminal corporate fronts. Keep your money local.
    9. Learn and apply permaculture.
    10. Say no to narcissism and actually lover your neighbor as yourself so you will put in the effort to do things right instead of slide down the the “convenience” path to hell on Earth.

    I try to do what is right because that is me.

    When this fraudulent contraption collapses and my family is wiped out and in poverty, it won’t be because I didn’t point out 100% proof that this system is a fraud and we are victims of an ongoing crime and cover up.

    Until then, they will have to keep sending my emails to the trash can… at least until Bertrand Russell’s imagined minions of world government get around to killing me in their “lethal chamber.”

    “On those rare occasions, when a boy or girl who has passed the age at which it is usual to determine social status shows such marked ability as to seem the intellectual equal of the rulers, a difficult situation will arise,
    requiring serious consideration. If the youth is content to abandon his
    previous associates and to throw in his lot whole-heartedly with the rulers, he may, after suitable tests, be promoted, but if he shows any regrettable solidarity with his previous associates, the rulers will reluctantly conclude that there is nothing to be done with him except to send him to the lethal chamber before his ill-disciplined intelligence has had time to spread revolt. This will be a painful duty to the rulers, but I think they will not shrink from performing it.”
    *- Bertrand Russell, “The Scientific Outlook”, 1931*

    BTW, I don’t fit that description. There was nothing spectacular about my intellect that these criminals would try and get me into their club. However, for whatever reason, my interests, the aptitude that I do have and my engineering, scientific method background has allowed me to reverse engineer many of their methods in spite of their lies and I’m doing all I can to expose these criminals.

    This is about faulty good versus pure, analytical, covert evil.

    This is about narcissism blinding our value systems as to what is the real danger and what actions make society safe.

    This is about modern day Sophists using logical fallacy to dupe a society that, frankly, gladly goes along with the program so long as they “feel” good in the moment.

    “Americans [and, by extension, Americanized Westerners] fear on thing and one thing only.


    ~Podcast interviewee – can’t recall his name

    The depth of truth in that statement, IMHO, is as profound as the statement itself.

    100%, beyond any and all doubt, proof of Federal Reserve’s criminal bubble blowing operation:

    Mechanics of fraudulent debt based monetary system graphed: is simply a PDF hosting website.

    If you prefer web links with non PDF graphics, check out these links

    Weapons Of Mass Debt – Debt is the Destruction

    Debt Money Tyranny


    My parents are old and I’ll buttress their illusions until they are gone, but my children, wife and myself will certainly be playing survivor. I’ve left comments, mostly with a biological systems slant on various “doomer” blogs, and even at these forums there is an unsettling silence, as if it is acceptable to model the outside world, but closely scrutinizing the systematic nature of humans and their technology is out of bounds. In society at large, all scrutiny that reaches beyond the visceral limbic system or challenges its desires is unacceptable. We live in limbic land and critical thinking need not apply. Ideas will not penetrate, the limbic mind thinks with emotions, pain and pleasure, not with words and symbols. When the pain becomes too great, their limbic fury will be unleashed against some scapegoat, perhaps each other, but the real reason, the systems reasons will never enter their minds.

    Their ignorance and seemingly doggy-like behaviors are more than repulsive. I’ve more or less decided to use “the system” which I could describe eloquently without the use of obscuring fractal science, to gain personal advantage. I’ll be eating filet mignon with an ocean view while the dogs are fighting for scraps in the streets of their malnourished cities. This is what I’ve decided my knowledge is for, saving myself and loved ones, while those that refuse enlightenment remain in their limbic, emotionally dominated and tragic, dog-eat-dog world.

    Let them eat cake? Naaaah. Let them eat each other.

    Ken Barrows

    Just ask these folks why “trend is destiny.” 99 out of 100 won’t give you a coherent answer. 999 out of 1000 won’t point to any facts.


    I grew up in an Irish farming family in Zimbabwe Africa. When I was 16 the country’s economy began to collapse in earnest when the government took over the farms. Friends (black and white) were beaten and killed, homes were destroyed. On my uncles farm 400 fully grown citrus trees were cut down by the “war vets” because he refused to hand over the years tobacco crop to them. Over the course of a few months the main support structures of the economy were essentially wiped out. There was 30% unemployment virtually overnight and that was just getting started, it was still years before it got really bad. Since the beginning of the millenium my home has suffered a 7 septillion percent inflation rate, 95% unemployment, and a drop in life expectancy from 65 to 32. The infrastructure and resources necessary to support communities were either wiped out or monopolized by elites, solidifying their hegemony over the country. While half the population requires food aid to survive you can see multi million dollar (U.S.) homes going up around Harare in gated communities with expensive shopping centers peddling fine imported foods and goods. Zimbabwe has been sold off for pennies on the dollar, but when you concentrate that into a small elite it is still a massive amount of wealth for individuals. What was once a truly beautiful place, full of vibrant people has been horribly disfigured by the corruption, greed, nepotism and outright psychopathy of the Zanu-PF. In essence Zimbabwe is a corpse of a country kept on life support by the Chinese now as they haul off any raw materials of value.

    Needless to say something like this has a huge impact on the psyche of a teenager. It pretty much wiped out any normalcy bias about what to expect from our political or economic systems. It also seeded a deep philosophical and practical anarchism within me. I graduated from University in Athens, Greece with a degree in philosophy in 2006. I wrote my thesis on the philosophy of history with the central argument that Industrial Civilization would collapse and either be replaced by a new emergent socio-economic revolution an order of magnitude higher than industrialization and agriculture combined, or we would go back to the stone age or extinct. My philosophy department dismissed me as a futurist and the economists dismissed me as a philosopher (Of a little vindication I have since had a few individuals contact me and apologize for dismissing me and in review they have found my premises and argumentation sound even if they still do not necessarily agree with my conclusions). Upon leaving university I travelled around the world, back to Africa, Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand and North America. For a few years I travelled to various communities to see how they functioned, permaculture farms, indigenous peoples, artist collectives, anarcho comunes. I was trying to assemble real world knowledge of what actually worked. If there is one thing that should be obvious to us it is that we must create the infrastructure and institutions at the ground level that will provide the stability and resources for communities and individuals to realign their behaviour around as the old systems increasingly breakdown.

    In 2008 I moved to Denver to start a collective with one of my best mates from University ( ). We started small, we opened a little space and the first activity we ran was a documentary and discussion evening and branched out from there. We did things like help to run volunteer art classes in a low income elementary school that had had its funding cut. Currently we have a large permaculture garden with free internet access and a building we can teach hay bail construction with. We now have 150 students from the local elementary school that run classes in the garden. Last year we organized a large block party in Denvers Art District on Santa Fe street called Here is How. The event was based on collaborative practice and educational outreach. We invited a host of community groups, organizations and local businesses to the event. Their only obligations were to handle the nature of their presence at the street party i.e. info booth, entertainment, crafts etc. plus they provided at least 200 printouts of a How-to page that we gave them the template for. This could be things like “Here is how to Build a Garden, DJ a party, Protect Local Pollinators or Fold an Origami Crane”. The collective took care of logistics, outreach and media. At the actual block party we had a book binding table where people brought all their “Here is How” pages they had collected and we showed them how to bind their own books so they could create their own community DIY manual to take home. Ultimately something like Here is How is very small, but the idea is that it helps to foster a culture of collaboration and mutual aid.

    In 2011 I was asked to teach a University class in Greece to American students. We discussed the philosophy of history as Egyptians knelt in prayer before water cannons and as the fires set in the Ministry of Finance in Athens flickered light across the marble of the Acropolis. It was the perfect classroom and it allowed us to have extensive dialogue about the role of history in our lives and our responsibility in that context. The point for me was never to tell my student that things were “fucked”, but to provide the framework and information to form their own perspectives and ideas on what they were learning and to form a dialogue about the issues. For me the key goal is to plant the seeds, whether they are intellectual or infrastructural and recognize that the unfolding of history (or whatever term you like for the fast complexity of events we are immersed in.) will do the fertilizing.

    I have since moved to Bozeman Montana (where my other best mate from University lives) having been offered a graduate teaching position which will pay for me to work on another degree (a little insulation). My small but close community here is working hard to develop what we can to provide alternatives. We are putting on Here is How Bozeman this summer and in the beginning of August we are opening a small community space. It is an extremely flexible, if not large, space that we can reorganize for a number of uses. We will have a small merchandise section with books and goods made by local artists and craftworkers to try and supplement some of the cost of running the space. Beyond that it will mostly be composed of a library with internet access and sitting area. We will be running free tutoring and presentation/discussions out of it, small events such as movie showings, as well as providing free meeting space for anyone that wants to use it. We also have a good friend who works in early childhood development who is interested in setting up a small enrichment program for families. We are also located a block over from the bar scene near the campus. Last year there was a string of serial rapes and we are speaking with some of the local advocacy groups and developing a plan to keep the space open and staffed Friday and Saturday nights until an hour after the bars close so that if there is anyone feeling uncomfortable or threatened by a situation can come and use the space as a safe haven and have the option of being walked home at the end of the evening. From there we will expand in whatever ways we can.

    Now I am not writing all this to toot my own horn so to speak, the gains of my communities have been modest but tangible. What is of key importance is to me is surmounting the isolation that we feel when we are confronted with the apathy, ignorance and aggression of those unwilling to look at the issues that confront us with real intellectual honesty. For years I was ridiculed and dismissed by family, friends, professors and co-workers. I learned a very careful, humble and diplomatic pedagogy for eliciting others to think on their own terms and come to their own conclusion while always being honest (but not aggressive) about my own views. In the consistency of my argumentation I have won over many once intractable individuals closer to my way of viewing what is happening. Again this is more about the fertility of history than any specific capacity of mine. I have remained consistent and articulate, but intellectually honest when I have been wrong, for many years now. When 2008 rolled around and then the European crisis started to properly kick off suddenly my arguments were not so outlandish and I was increasingly validated by events. Above all we must have compassion for the cultural and historical perspectives in which our fellow humans are embedded. The relationships of industrialization have so deeply purveyed our cultures and psyches. Indeed it is as unimaginable for many of us to perceive the world without our industrial economies and nation states at the nexus as it must have been for medieval peasants to contemplate a world without the Church of Rome.

    However I think it is also important to recognize that a little shock (if given with humour and kindness) can go a long way to breaking down ingrained dialogues. For example a person asked me the other day what it was like in Greece this past year and I responded, “You know the scene in Titanic when the band is playing and all the people are running around screaming and throwing deck chairs over the side…” They laughed but it expressed the true intensity of the situation and subverted a lot of the propaganda fairly quickly. We then had a fairly extensive and honest discussion about the real implications of what is happening. The other thing that I would say is that we need to stand our ground, again with humility and compassion but conviction none the less. I have a few years of food stored up, and the first thing that I will do when distribution breaks down is to start providing it to the community. I will readily admit this to anyone, and if they act like I am out of my mind I will humbly state that I hope I am wrong and that nothing would make me happier, but I then gently inform them that they never have experienced anything like what I am describing and I have seen it twice now. It is not some misanthropic preoccupation but a visceral awareness of the implications of what I describe. This is not the providence of fiction but actual historical phenomenon. It is easy to dismiss something you have not experienced but that is a position of unexamined assumption and bias that must be exposed for what it is. It is not about making someone agree with you but to at least intellectually recognize the validity of the claim and to earn respect for your position. This again is at least a seed. I often summarize my goals as radical intention coupled with diplomatic action.

    I will leave off with a short story. After the war that liberated Zimbabwe from Rhodesia in 1980 my parents and a friend renovated a Land Rover in order to go Safari through central Africa. They cut off the roof over the front seats, welded down the back cover and installed a stereo system. However, it being post independence Zim they could not find any speakers so they installed three headphone jacks and proceeded to cruise through the bush open air with their headphones on. Everything was brilliant until they got to the border checkpoint with Malawi. This was Africa in the 80’s, the Afrikaaner government in South Africa was doing everything it could to hold onto power and destabilize Black Africa, so needless to say there was a lot of suspicion and fear. The checkpoint was your typical third world military post. Dusty concrete, topped with concertina wire, the windows broken in the guardhouse and a large picture Hasting Banda glaring down from the wall. The Guards rushed out screaming in a language my parents did not understand, waving and pointing their A.K.’s they forced them out of the vehicle. Shouting the guards alternated from shoving the A.K.’s into their chests and pointing them at the Land Rover. It was extremely tense and terrifying and then my mother realized they were pointing at the headphones and it occurred to her that the guards were thinking they were South African Spies. Very gently my mother took the headphones and placed them over the head guards ears. They were playing Bob Marley. The look of anger suspicion melted away, replaced by a massive grin as he started to bob his head and move his body. The guards proceeded to pass around the headphones smiling and laughing. They invited my parents for tea and then let them continue on their way. Music alone bridged not only the divide of language but also the massive divide of black and white Africa. Courage and dignity demands that we must relentlessly seek the common ground of our humanity, from there I believe that anything is possible.


    Anyone who challenges the collective hallucination will be attacked.
    I’m a tenured environmental science professor and I have experimenting with explaining the environmental calamity we face – and are creating – since the 1980s. I have experienced countless failures and damaged some relationships quite badly. I’ve also experienced hundreds or thousands of successes. I will share some of what I’ve learned that WORKS. All one must do is to create a desire for more information. Make them hungry.
    Also, people do not need to agree with or understand that the markets are based on smoke and mirrors and even if they were to hold for a while, we are screwed because we are destroying ecosystem services. A KEY truth is that we can increase resilience if more people have food, cash and skills. Their motivation for this is irrelevant as long as they are ready for something.

    Before I go into it though, I want to say THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THIS FORUM!!! Thank you folks who run the site and thanks to all of the thoughtful contributors to the discussion.
    *** THANK YOU ***

    First, don’t scare them by shoving the info into their faces. Bring it up when the opportunity arises. Opportunities are in the news daily – fires, crop failures, tornadoes.

    I have experienced good results with the following approach:
    “Wow! How about those tornadoes/fires/black-outs!? Holy shit! People are not ready for that even though we KNOW it happens. I think everyone should have some extra food and water stored. Hey, do you know how many days worth of food our grocery stores have on the shelves? (No.) Something like 2 DAYS! THAT’S IT! If there were a disaster here and we lost supply lines, we only have two days of food at the store! That’s the same everywhere in the US. I think that storing extra food if a form of responsible citizenship. I mean, we could be cut off during an ice storm or from (insert locally relevant natural disaster) for DAYS! But when you look it up, all the sites that tell you what to store or put in a “go-bag” or whatever are …who? People who look like nut-job malitia members or government conspiracy nuts or religious radicals. Who wants to be like them!? Nobody! But really, having some extra food and flashlights is just a form of responsible citizenship, right? It’s actually totally rational and reasonable, especially since natural disasters are increasing in frequency and intensity. So, isn’t it just what a rational human would have? Yes. But you gotta also think about the neighbors who probably aren’t ready and maybe just have some five gallon buckets full of dried beans stored in nitrogen – which you can just make and forget for 10 or 20 years. Just a few buckets of beans and rice. The end.” (Remember, this is a reframing and an invitation to the idea of prepping.)

    You get the picture. (Now, we know there’s more to it, but people need to become interested and think it’s the *reasonable,* *smart* thing to do and that it’s relatively *easy* – which is all true – then they can learn more. Just make them hungry to learn it.)

    It usually only takes about two conversations for people to ask for lists I might have… and do because I’ve had students collaborate on what to have under 4 different scenarios.

    When the power goes out somewhere (also in the news at least once a month), it’s also an opportunity to talk about that. I sometimes go on about solar PV systems that no one thinks they can afford because they’re all thinking of systems sized to meet most of their needs. But hell, a couple of 60 watt panels and a couple of batteries (inverter, etc.) can make it possible to have lights, charge the phone, use a radio, etc. We don’t HAVE to have a system that can run the AC and refrigerator. Actually, I think two separate systems are the way to go – one large and one small. I’m very into redundancy. I’ll stop here.


    Love the title of this article and the picture!

    RWG, I would love to learn more about your lists and the equipment needed to put together a robust solar battery system without busting the banks.

    You can post that kind of thing here:

    Maybe we need a new thread titled Preparation.

    Dopamine, I wish I had your confidence that I could find a piece of paradise as the Great Unwashed are taken out by the psychopathic [D]elites and that they’d have no interest in taking my nice view and eating my steak, but I don’t.

    In fact, every solution I get around to includes a near fully educated and fully aware populace to keep the psychopaths at bay.

    By all means, work hard to better your family’s odds of success, but consider reaching out to others to help them better perceive what is being done to them, who is doing and why they are doing it.

    While ignorant based arrogance is extremely high at the top of a bubble and nobody wants to be inconvenienced by bad news, the Muppets will be ready to listen after the Money Power gleefully rips their financial faces off.

    Unfortunately, it is a common human trait that pain, sometimes extreme, is required to change our behavior.



    That’s a remarkable tale, so much so I find myself wondering if it’s real; but then, how could one make this up?!

    Would you mind if maybe I run it on the front page?

    Please contact me at theautomaticearth • at • gmail • dot • com.


    Hi Skip,

    I totally understand how you feel. I too feel the same way while trying to communicate on the global financial crises with my friends and family in India.

    I tried to explain the crises logically to willing readers by writing articles on it since last three years. I am grateful to for publishing my articles.

    I also made a successful attempt to write a book “Lets Talk Money” to warn the average investor regarding the risks to their savings and future income generation potential due to this crises, which has hit the stands last month in India.

    Just because people look at me as if I have just landed from Mars and are not willing to see what I believe is a rational opinion on the global financial crises, I would not stop trying to get as many people as I can to be aware of what is going on in the financial world so that they can take better decisions about their assets and savings to enjoy a better quality of life in a stress free manner.

    Keep up the good work.
    Take care

    phil harris

    That would be nice – and I hope we hear more from RWG about local ecosystem renewal (build the soil; retain water in a dry land – there are some beautiful projects in the USA )

    Zulubuddha and his mates make a micro United Nations! Great!
    Why end up in USA and Bozeman, though?
    Wondering about the answer, I ponder the notion that the US is still going to be the best (low risk) place to be for the next 50 years and a platform for future civil society, in a favorable sense. Sounds like heresy, but this is partly, not kidding, from reading ZB and, amazingly, that amusing guy down at the Forum, Dimitri Orlov (and Ghung, see above and elsewhere). Otherwise, perhaps back in the good ol’ FSU might not be so bad, though the latter’s tradition of tyranny is not a plus. My own experience in Eastern Europe and the Balkans makes me less sanguine for Europe, but my daughter’s experience living and working in Russia in late 90s early 2000s keeps reminding me how people got by. Surprising really.
    Die off? Yes, many places.
    USA, big time, near future?
    Not so likely?
    Would be nice to get some of the kleptomaniacs who run the shop hands out of the till, but that need not pull the whole show down, IMHO, unless drought and storm really do for the USA. Still, keep those Canadian beans under nitrogen just in case there is a serious blip, eh?

    David Peter

    How do human beings learn and how do we change?
    If we better understand these 2 questions, we may understand the incomprehension around us. One theory ( to which I subscribe ), a theory first proposed by Rene Girard, is that our way of life is modelled for us, and that we imitate the models we are drawn to. Our values and modus operandi are not self-determined.

    David Peter

    But this is not just imitation. Girard insists on the Greek MIMESIS, differentiated by a DESIRE which is attracted by the very being of an OTHER , and all the objects which the OTHER desires.


    How do we change?
    Human behavior is something like 96% unconscious. Mostly it is driven by emotion.

    Human brains light up much more when we see images of or think about people we think are like us than when we see people who are different. The more they are like us (socio-economic status, family and religious background, etc.), the more activity in the brain. This is probably why it is easy for us do terrible things to people we perceive as different. Also why it’s important to not let anyone “other-ize” us.

    Then again, the desire aspect is also exceptionally powerful.

    We are persuaded by people we perceive to be attractive, have attributes we want ($, access to power, etc.), and who make us feel good when we are around them. Much of this is psychological projection of positive things we have put into our “shadow.” (Most of what we hear about the shadow has to do with the nasty bits, but there is all kinds of good stuff in there too that we are forced to dis-own by our oppressive society. See the books Owning Your Shadow and Inner Gold by Robert Johnson and Jung’s Dreams, Memories, Reflections for more on this.)
    See also the PBS and documentaries on the work of Clotaire Rapail for more info on unconscious associations if that is of interest to you. Fascinating stuff.


    rwg post=4071 wrote: How do we change?
    Human behavior is something like 96% unconscious. Mostly it is driven by emotion.

    Human brains light up much more when we see images of or think about people we think are like us than when we see people who are different. The more they are like us (socio-economic status, family and religious background, etc.), the more activity in the brain. This is probably why it is easy for us do terrible things to people we perceive as different. Also why it’s important to not let anyone “other-ize” us.

    Then again, the desire aspect is also exceptionally powerful.

    We are persuaded by people we perceive to be attractive, have attributes we want ($, access to power, etc.), and who make us feel good when we are around them. Much of this is psychological projection of positive things we have put into our “shadow.” (Most of what we hear about the shadow has to do with the nasty bits, but there is all kinds of good stuff in there too that we are forced to dis-own by our oppressive society. See the books Owning Your Shadow and Inner Gold by Robert Johnson and Jung’s Dreams, Memories, Reflections for more on this.)
    See also the PBS and documentaries on the work of Clotaire Rapail for more info on unconscious associations if that is of interest to you. Fascinating stuff.

    To make matters worse, the social engineers have studied human behavior and use their knowledge as a literal weapon against the populace.

    “In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
    ― Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic Era

    “Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so.”
    -Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society p50, 1953

    “Gradually, by selective breeding, the congenital differences between rulers and ruled will increase until they become almost different species. A revolt of the plebs would become as unthinkable as an organized insurrection of sheep against the practice of eating mutton.”
    *- Bertrand Russell, “The Impact of Science on Society”, 1953, pg 49-50*

    “In like manner, the scientific rulers will provide one kind of education
    for ordinary men and women, and another for those who are to become holders of scientific power. Ordinary men and women will be expected to be docile, industrious, punctual, thoughtless, and contented. Of these qualities, probably contentment will be considered the most important. In order to produce it, all the researches of psycho-analysis, behaviourism, and biochemistry will be brought into play…. All the boys and girls will learn from an early age to be what is called ‘co-operative,’ i.e., to do exactly what everybody is doing. Initiative will be discouraged in these children, and insubordination, without being punished, will be scientifically trained out of them.”

    “On those rare occasions, when a boy or girl who has passed the age at which it is usual to determine social status shows such marked ability as to seem the intellectual equal of the rulers, a difficult situation will arise, requiring serious consideration. If the youth is content to abandon his previous associates and to throw in his lot whole-heartedly with the rulers, he may, after suitable tests, be promoted, but if he shows any regrettable solidarity with his previous associates, the rulers will reluctantly conclude that there is nothing to be done with him except to send him to the lethal chamber before his ill-disciplined intelligence has had time to spread revolt. This will be a painful duty to the rulers, but I think they will not shrink from performing it.”
    *- Bertrand Russell, “The Scientific Outlook”, 1931*

    “Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.”
    ~Dwight Eisenhower

    “That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.”
    ― Aldous Huxley, Collected Essays


    It’s all just intellectual masturbation at this point.

    Earth’s carrying capacity is about 1.5 Billion. We’re at 7 Billion.

    It’s a long way down. And all ‘preparation’ in the Northern hemisphere IMO is pointless given all those nuclear reactors lying around all over the place. Just one nuclear disaster would render Western Europe uninhabitable.


    @ TheTrivium4TW
    I seldom take issue with what you say.
    However, I must object to you quotations.

    What Bertrand Russell thought would happen will not happen.

    Sexy maids will always be able to have children of the elite.

    Since the advent of the web, anyone can access the information that previously was only available to the elite.

    Knowledge begets discontent.

    (Before 9/11 I used to be very contented. After the financial meltdown, I became a seeker. My glass is now 1/2 full.)


    This article and discussion mostly covers the financial dilemma. Now add to your conversation the problem of nuclear waste, loss of Non Renewable Resources (NNR) and global warming and your social life will be toast.

    My experience is the same as others with one exception. I have been able to talk to three teachers. They listened intently and asked good questions.

    Sounds good however, they have never brought up the subject in later opportunities. In hindsight, I wonder if this is how they have learned to talk to unreasonable or “out of control” students and I may have fit in that category.


    Thank you SB and everybody else for sharing your experiences. It’s comforting to know that others are going through the same thing. My friends and family think I’m a complete Nutter and I just don’t bother anymore. I’m hoping that I may be able to convince some people through a positive example.
    What makes the situation worse for me, is my partner doesn’t feel the same, he thinks that we live in a safe haven – down under in Oz.
    I’m very grateful for this community here and over at DD.

    Nicole and Illargi, I missed you here in Oz by one week! I hope you come back one day.


    jal post=4075 wrote: @ TheTrivium4TW
    I seldom take issue with what you say.
    However, I must object to you quotations.

    What Bertrand Russell thought would happen will not happen.

    Sexy maids will always be able to have children of the elite.

    Since the advent of the web, anyone can access the information that previously was only available to the elite.

    Knowledge begets discontent.

    (Before 9/11 I used to be very contented. After the financial meltdown, I became a seeker. My glass is now 1/2 full.)

    Hi jal, thanks for the support and I don’t think we are not too far off on Russell’s quotes, either. I didn’t post those so that people would think that they have been implemented 100% as of right now. Rather, I posted them so that people could understand the mindset of some who serve the oligarchs and, once thinking in terms of that mindset, evaluate if plans to accomplish similar have been put into place and, if so, how far down the tyranny road they’ve been able to progress.

    I also think you you haven’t discounted that most “real world” folks aren’t anything like you (especially if you agree with me a lot 😉

    Yes, there is a plethora of information on the internet, but one has to look for it in order to find the good stuff.

    Not only won’t most people find it on their own, they will refuse to look into it when served up on a silver platter. Repeatedly!

    So the system has been able to significantly skew the perspective of the vast, vast majority of people so that these criminal financial Ponzi operators could run their fraud and destroy society with very little resistance.

    Let me give you an example from today. I have a friend who is very competitive. He’s always commenting how small I am (and he’s a lot thicker than I am, even if an inch or two shorter) and about how he can beat me at Frisbee golf (and he can – I’m a rookie and he’s actually pretty good).

    I joked with him that he was safe playing Frisbee golf for a while and that if I wanted to beat him at something I’d invite him to play poker. 😉

    He basically came back with he’d be happy to give me a shot, anytime, any place.

    Then I gave him the run down on GMO food and how it changed the “family jewels” from pink to purple, was linked to sterility in mammals, organ damage in mammals, higher infant mortality, reduced body size, etc… and asked him to direct some of his competitive spirit to helping reign in a real danger to humanity…

    Nothing. No response, nothing.

    Yet when a car sped by while we were playing golf, he was right in the street yelling in their window to “slow down.” He recognized that danger and took action without even thinking.

    I would argue we are heading down the path that Bertrand Russell spoke about, but we aren’t at the end of the path yet – with that I completely agree.

    My research also led me to believe that there are two different education systems. One that teaches the [D]elites HOW to critically think and one that teaches everyone else WHAT to think and WHO is the AUTHORITY (ultimately, people on the payroll of the [D]elites who can think clearly).

    Even Woodrow Wilson spoke of this…

    “We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class of necessity in every society, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks.”
    ― Woodrow Wilson

    Now, Wilson was speaking of the 7 liberal arts… a classical liberal education, not the counterfeit that has replaced it.

    You will note that the Trivium is composed of the first three liberal arts taught in a classical liberal education. Talk to someone with a “liberal arts” degree today and they’ve never heard of the Trivium.

    The Trivium is a method to systematically determine what is true, what is false and what is unknown. It also makes clear what needs to be done before one actually knows something.

    That isn’t taught to the masses. I was exposed to a similar thought process via the scientific method (engineering studies) and also through the Plan, Do, Study, Act method (W. Edwards Deming), so it just clicked with me.

    I observe highly educated people believing complete nonsense because they fell for an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy and they don’t have a clue that they don’t have a clue.

    This includes MDs, software engineers, technical supervisors, etc…

    Interestingly, the MDs seem to have been taught how to use logical fallacy in order avoid an honest discussion, but I think it is because they actually believe it carries weight as opposed to them being completely dishonest.

    While I’m on MDs, “anecdotal evidence” is the BEGINNING of investigation, not the END! Whoever taught the medical profession that “anecdotal evidence” was an epithet to shut down discourse was probably funded by Big Finance Capital Rockefeller types.

    When Newton observe the apple fall, it was “anecdotal evidence” of what we now call gravity. More research is required.

    But this is why a woman who reversed MS through diet is of no interest to the “sick care professionals.” They’ve been duped. Big Pharma maximizes profits off of a sick society, not a well one. they are in the business of maximizing profits, not minimizing them.

    jal, have you watched The Ultimate History Lesson (skip the intro if you find it boring)?

    There are five parts, so keep clicking as you have time.

    Two quotes, in the first hour, struck me as profound:

    “The first step in reaching for an education, I think, is to mistrust what you most are certain of. Mistrust that. Now, it may survive, but it needs to be tested not once, but until you are exhausted testing it.”
    ~John Taylor Gatto

    “So what we got was a second American Revolution between, oh, I don’t know, 1865 and about 1910. This time the British won. Again, but they didn’t win by force of arms, but by force of insight into the way opinion was created.”
    ~John Taylor Gatto


    jal, have you watched The Ultimate History Lesson (skip the intro if you find it boring)?

    I’ll find the time.


    I saw,a long while back,the result of “being right”.Nicole had warned of the last down-turn in the economy…the one where most folks lost most of their “401k”gambling money…which I had broadcast loud and long.

    I had switched to bonds & treasury’s..and lost not a dime.

    No,I was not a hero at that company…

    I stopped talking to most folks about the coming chaos…as its pointless, and downright dangerous.All those who matter to me know how I feel.I have little to gain by being “one who saw it coming”as the next thought is how did you prepare..and can I have some?.

    I have figured out what I consider to be moral way of dealing with whats coming.I am,out of my own pocket..[which trust me is not deep at all] to try and put together a seed bank that might help to feed my neighbors when it gets strange.
    Just a freezer with seed,and a sincere hope never to have to use it.

    I cant change the world,or whats coming,but if I improve my corner a bit I can know in my heart I have done what I could to help those around me.

    Bee good,or
    Bee careful



    jal post=4086 wrote:

    jal, have you watched The Ultimate History Lesson (skip the intro if you find it boring)?

    I’ll find the time.

    I don’t think you will be disappointed.

    Peace Revolution has commentary that adds even more to the discussion.

    If you know any humans, this whole series is *highly* recommended.

    RS this is recommended for you because it outlines the evidence of a long standing conspiracy of the [D]elites to 1. demonize the masses, 2. exert control over the people and 3. cover it up form those that were demonized.

    Ash, this is recommended for you so that you can consider the evidence of an alternate viewpoint – and the video is sourced so you can go to source itself – don’t trust the intermediary. That’s a major theme of the The Ultimate History lesson.

    As a related aside, check out the latest podcast over at The Extra Environmentalist.

    While you should verify this, the interviewee stated that iron work was observed about 1,000 years before it became popular in Europe. He surmised that this was because the [D]elites of the **MILLENIA** held their control based on their being close to copper ore, so they didn’t allow this iron work knowledge to spread.

    For 1,000 years. I don’t know if that is true, but it is worthy of research for some interested party

    That’s why I love the criminal Federal Reserve angle where they broke their own law for 25 years, lied for over 25 years to cover it up and NOBODY in the establishment (media, politics, education, medicine, religion, foundations, nobody) has outed them in spite of this being a top 5 biggest story in all of human history.

    However, the implications of this truth are very scary and most people won’t even let it enter their brain as a possibility, let alone discuss it in order to vet it and more thoroughly understand the implication.





    Whether we choose to face it or whether we choose to delude ourselves and pull the cover over our own eyes.


    All of the old farts have got to get out more often. (inclusive statement)

    I just received the following quote.

    “Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world”

    Nothing new … so you say.

    Now do a search for that phrase.

    Young bloggers are even making up pictures to go with the saying.


    The “Earth Ling” clan are getting a growing awareness

    CJ in VT

    Somehow I missed this post a few weeks back. You will all LOL multiple times watching this clip “Things Sheeple Say.”

    The 2nd & 3rd are pretty funny too.


    Thanks CJ! Great video–good to know we’re not the only ones!

Viewing 38 posts - 1 through 38 (of 38 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.