Debt Rattle July 24 2023
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On Western hopes (now supposedly! .. dashed) re the UKR counter-offensive (see some news posted by Ilargi at top), those in charge, and no doubt many others, knew perfectly well the ‘counter offensive’ would FAIL in the sense that UKR would gain no ground, log no victories of any kind, would just be moving soldiers and matériel into the meat grinder, to be chewed up by Russian forces.
That is no matter, as nobody in ‘Collective West’ cares at all for UKR or Ukranians, they are just pawns in the Game.
In this proxy war, Slavs are killing Slavs, that is wonderful, and has to be kept up as long as possible. As some US pol said, the more Russians are killed, the better it is… was L. Graham iirc … Ukranians are fulfilling a holy sacrificial cause, so there is that! Nobody will thank them though, ever.
The question is, how is UKR to be cut up, and what pieces of the Pie will be apportioned to different factions, which on paper will be made to look like ‘Nations’ (to Russia, the Donbass, already partly done, Odessa most likely as well, more for sure, heh lots of questions there, maybe some territory to Poland ..) but will *de facto* be dominated, and run, by Corporations, Oligarchs, in collusion with puppet ‘Goverments’ – not new.
@MyParentsSaidKnow.
BloombergTelevision: “Ukraine Economic Recovery Depends on Millions of Women Returning”.
(In a news box).”It makes ya wonder why the toadies at Bloomberg even bother to move their fingers on the key board to write such crap. I’m so tempted to do their job for them since they are so obviously incapable of doing it.
Here, Lemme just wiggle my fingers on the keyboard for a minute just fix up that little headline of theirs for them:
“BloombergTelevision: “Ukraine Economic Recovery Depends on Millions of Women Returning, Along with Millions of Other Recovery Kinds of Things That Also Can’t Possibly Happen”.
(In a news box).”BloombergTelevision: “Ukraine Economic Recovery Depends on Millions of Women Returning”.
Everyone who left the most corrupt Shithole© in all of Eurotardistan is never going back.
Ukraine is already gone.
It’s like a Norwegian Blue Parrot, nailed to it’s perch.
Nazilensky singing to the Women of Ukronaziland, they are all Ophelias now
Ophelia
The BandBoards on the window, mail by the door
What would anybody leave so quickly for?
Ophelia, where have you gone?The old neighborhood just ain’t the same
Nobody knows just what became of
Ophelia, tell me, what went wrong?Was it somethin’ that somebody said?
Mama, I know we broke the rules
Was somebody up against the law?
Honey, you know I’d die for youAshes of laughter, the coast is clear
Why do the best things always disappear
Like Ophelia, please darken my doorWas it somethin’ that somebody said?
Honey, you know we broke the rules
Was somebody up against the law?
Honey, you know I’d die for youThey got your number, scared and runnin’
But I’m still waitin’ for the second comin’
Of Ophelia, come back homeAfewknowthetruth – I almost missed this even more glaring statement you made yesterday
What matters is the set of conditions of present times, i.e. atmospheric CO2 around 140 ppm above the preindustrial level of 280 ppm [a fancy intentionally deceptive way of saying 0.028% – two HUDREDTHS
- OF a
percent and 8 thousandths OF a percent] and the accelerating meltdown that ensues from that highly elevated level
at 280ppm (0.028%) THE PLANTS DIE
All the plants dying is your IDEAL STATE for the earth to be in. Because you are in a death cult.
Also, remember when the Vikings were growing crops and livestock in Greenland? You know, your precious “pre industrial levels”
That was warm enough – per YOUR 1000x assertions – to cause “the accelerating meltdown.”
So you’re dead. You were never born. Because the earth melted down in the time of Erik The Red – per your “Scientific” information.
A lot more people are coming on board to an awareness that the controllers who can’t control anything well are now insisting on acquiring even more control, which everyone sees as a Merry-Go-Round to hell . . . and so they don’t want that to happen, and they do want to fix it. They are just dumbstruck by the level of stupidity of the world’s leaders, but it has not yet occurred to them that the aforementioned stupidity and inability to fix anything might be (is) both fully understood and intentional. The impending destruction of the whole works, and homo sapiens in particular, IS the intended purpose and goal.
Yes, it IS quite stupid, and profoundly so, but do not commit the error of thinking that it is not on purpose.
A very astute and adult conversation in an interview of Alex & Alexander (The Duran) on the future of Europe, and by extension many other places as well. The bottom line is that as collapse proceeds through multiple failures stacking up, the strong tendency is for power to be drawn back closer and closer to the center. In realistic terms the rule of thumb is if that these “globalist” powers CAN do it then they WILL do it. Right now they still can, and therefore you can count on it.
Here’s the link: https://www.youtube.com/live/lRfneRwSCW4?feature=share
Phoenix:
Is air conditioning ubiquitous in Greece?
Not ubiquitous and not in my apt
And what is the humidity like?
Not too bad, but Athens is a port city.
Bombshell! Last Week’s Record High Temperatures Were FAKED!
Diversis diebus eadem mendacia.
At #139733
Then you don’t want to hear the other day it went from 18ºC to 23ºC and tonight it will go down to 14ºC about daybreak. Soft Irish-like days but without the wind, some rain showers with mist and fog to fill in. No Ac needed, not even a fan. Don’t tell anyone.To all in general, but more specifically jb-hb and apsnaz.
I’ve said it before and will repeat – you guys are pretty nasty with your comments but this seems to highlight deeper insecurities. I suspect you have chosen a narrative and chose to ignore current global issues (mostly climate related and mostly affecting folk in Africa and Asia at the moment).
Please expand your education and considerations when talking about climate. You generally have no idea what you are talking about and focus on CO2 and belittling others such as myself when there are so many things that affect long term climate (and short-term weather).
AFKTT also focusses on CO2, but also seems to be aware of the ramifications of what rapid changes in CO2 might cause as opposed to long slow incremental change over geological history i.e. with respect to biophysical destruction and mass death of creatures on this planet (this time including humans). It’s happened before so will happen again.
As an earth scientist I am appalled by your ignorance of the readily available geological information that basically says:
1) long-term climate and the balance of the earth system as a whole is a global phenomenon. 2) Changes in localized climate (and resulting weather) on short-medium term horizons are often due to geological phenomenon.
Some examples:
Studies of lake sediment records close to Viking settlements in Greenland indicate that at this time the temperature in Greenland was similar to today (about 10 degrees Celsius). Changes in carbon dioxide was not the culprit, instead it was more likely a difference in the path of warm ocean currents.
The little ice age was also not due to carbon dioxide, instead it was most likely the result of volcanic eruptions elsewhere on the planet blocking solar insolation resulting in a cold period of about 6-8 years.
Generally speaking, changes in Earth’s orbit and tilt results in changes in the distribution of heat derived from the sun around the planet – this is the climate change switch. CO2 is the thermostat which defines how warm or cold it will get. Changes in CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) are controlled by geological and biological processes.
Imagine a world with no-humans and let us focus on CO2 – yes I know, reductionist approach but we have to start somewhere.
Historical changes in CO2 were predominantly derived from: erosion (slow CO2 uptake into the likes of CaCO3 and other minerals = cooling), eruptions (fast CO2 release = warming). Biological processes plug into that and change the mass balance of carbon in the atmosphere to varying degrees e.g. uptake and storage via various ‘carbon pumps’ on land (soil) and ocean (sediments) = lower CO2 on balance, while mass death of plants and other organisms and things like wildfires = release of CO2 on balance. The interconnections between all the systems on the planet via the atmosphere and the ocean currents muddy everything up but the trend that emerges is clear – CO2 goes up planetwide, temperature goes up, CO2 goes down planetwide – temperature goes down. Sometimes CO2 is ahead of the curve and sometime behind the curve but that depends on where the measurements are taken within the geological record relative to the other changes occurring on the planet at the time.
Now imagine a world with some hairless apes who stumble upon oil gas and coal and have a massive 200-year party. What we have done is essentially the same as a massive volcanic eruption over the course of 200 years (which is a blink in the eye with respect to geological time). That’s gonna have consequences. How fast, we don’t know but it seems to be speeding up.There are unknowns. For example, current exceptionally warm oceans could be the result of subsea volcanism loading the deep ocean with heat and screwing up things like the Southern oscillation (La Nian/El Nino) but because we don’t measure things like subsea volcanism folk are dumfounded.
BTW: minimum level of CO2 for plants is somewhere between 50 and 170ppm. This is plant species dependent.
Heatwaves at the moment in multiple continents is due to more wavy jet-streams trapping high pressure systems, which is due to changing heat loading between the equatorial and polar regions – which at this point is most likely due to rapid buildup of CO2 across the last 200 years (as CO2 traps heat as per physicist John Tyndall). Heatwaves and drought in general are exacerbated by the fact we’ve chopped down forests and have abstracted shit-tons of water for agriculture and impacted soil health and structure, such that we now have a deficit of water in important growing regions which then results in low biomass growth and little/no offsetting of heat (look at temperature of bare soil versus planted).
Basically, humans are capable of planet-wide impacts and fossil fuels have allowed us to achieve that.you guys are pretty nasty with your comments but this seems to highlight deeper insecurities.
Don’t be nasty to the guy who wants humanity reduced to being naked in the jungle – a state of being no human has lived in, but which is perfectly in line with We Must Take Everything Away From Them WEF/Claus Schwab “you vill own nuzzing” and “eet zee bugs”
Don’t be nasty to the guy who wants 7 billion people to die.
Don’t be nasty to the guy who continually hits on ALL FOUR types of liar.
It is VERY INTERESTING that you step in at just this moment to enforce a two tier system of civility, in which AFKTT has a years long history of being nasty to others FREQUENTLY and being a continual LIAR who tells the same lies in the same way 3 years later. (I lurked here for 2+ years before posting)
You seem to think there are rules WE must follow that HE doesn’t. That’s very Alinsky-ish of you.
Do you understand that when someone is completely implacable, unrelenting, and ALWAYS acting in bad faith, you DO NOT require everyone to act like open minded civil robots? Like gullible, credulous morons? His behavior is based on contempt of anyone reading his words in JUST such a fashion.
You generally have no idea what you are talking about and focus on CO2
Always accuse your enemy of doing precisely what YOU are doing, amirite?
the ramifications of what rapid changes in CO2
Okay expert, explain scientifically why our current rise in 0.00005% CO2 is the only rapid rise in CO2 ever.
Because the premise is that Earth will turn into VENUS due to the current “rapid” rise in CO2.
That’s the battle you are jumping into. Go ahead and science us. Go on. Teach us all about “The Rapid Rise In CO2”
jb-hb
I assume, according to your mendacious, twisted ‘logic’, indeed very sick and illogical manipulative ‘logic’, that the increase in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm (pre-industrial) to the current level of approximately 420 ppm would not an increase of 140 ppm. I also assume that, according to your sick and twisted narrative, the percentage increase a percentage of the original would not be 140/280 times 100 = 50%
All I do is report the numbers posted regularly at CO2.earth that you don’t want to know about because you are so far up the arsehole of industrialism and commercialism and all the deceits associated with them you choose distortion and misrepresentation as weapons in ongoing your misinformation campaigns.
Today’s numbers:
Jul. 23, 2023 422.44 ppm
Jul. 23, 2022 418.43 ppm
1 Year Change 4.01 ppm (0.96%)You will note that if you divide 4.01 (the latest reported increase) by 418.43 (last year’s figure) you get 0.96%
That is, of course, a substantial understatement of the predicament humanity is in as a consequence of overuse of sequestered carbon in the form of fossil fuels.
A far better indicator is obtained by subtracting the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm from all post-industrial results for comparison.
Thus, when humanity got into high gear in the overconsumption of fossil fuels in the 1950s, the atmospheric CO2 level was around 315 ppm, just 35 ppm above the pre-industrial level. We can express that as 35/280 times 100 = 12.5%
Therefore, in the 1950s atmospheric CO2 was elevated by around 12.5%, which was not sufficient to overwhelm the combination of Milankovich Cycles and weathering of rocks etc that maintained relative thermal stability. (Bear in mind that most of the industrial CO2 emissions were ending up in the oceans then, as now).
Compare that with the current CO2 overload of 50% (420 ppm minus 280 ppm above).
We can have some ‘fun’ when we compare the extent of the worsening of the predicament by ‘greedy apes’ over the past 70 years..
Current CO2 overshoot is 50%. In the 1950s it was 12.5%
50/12.5 times 100 = 400%. Therefore, we can say we have managed to increase the worsening of the predicament since the 1950s by 400%.
But none of the above is truly representative of the magnitude of the predicament because the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm was already on the high side of the 800,000-year pattern,
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
which averaged 230 ppm and never exceeded 260 ppm for long until humans came along (with the 400,000-year trend downwards) and started modifying the geochemistry of the Earth via chopping down trees to build houses and temples and ships etc., started recovering metals from ores, and started decarbonising limestone to make mortar.
Thus, the scientific evidence indicates that over a period of approximately 20,000 years, pre-fossil-fuel societies may have raised the atmospheric CO2 level from around 260 ppm to around 280 ppm. That amounted to 1ppm per 1,000 years.
If you’d like to get a real measure of how rapidly industrial humans are fucking up everything, compare the rate of increase now (approximately 2.7 ppm per year) with the preindustrial rate (1 ppm per 1,000 years); that is 2,700 times as fast, which as a percentage is 270,000%
That is quite an achievement, to be fucking up the planet at a rate 270,000% faster than the Romans and other civilisations of that era did, since they managed to cause several ecological disasters. Mostly local, of course.
The ecological disaster associated with mass use of fossil fuels since around 1800 is global and is increasing by the second.
I know you are not the least bit interested in facts or proper analysis and simply inhabit this forum to blow your own idiotic trumpet of misinformation and distortion as loudly as you can. And, like several other that inhabit TAE, throw insults at anyone who does present data and analysis.
Therefore, I assume you will continue to bloviate the way others of your ilk do, as the CO2-induced overheating melts ice sheets, generates unprecedented heat waves and inundations, progressively destroys industrial societies and their food systems over the next decade or so (atmospheric CO2 of 460 ppm, twice the 800,000-year average is clearly in sight and may arrive superfast if, as expected, positive feedbacks self-reinforce and mutually reinforce to increase the rate of overheating), and progressively renders the Earth inhospitable to most extant life forms over the period 2030 to 2060.
”
The purpose for enslavement is always the same:
to obtain the fruits of the slave’s labour, without mutually agreed-upon compensation.And so, if we look at the bare bones of the definition,
we easily recognize that if all of the fruits of our labour are taken from us,
we are entirely enslaved.If a portion of those fruits is taken from us, we are partially enslaved.
Taxation is unquestionably, by definition, partial enslavement.
”Autism is not the reason those individuals were euthanatized, a failed society where autistic individuals are trapped in poverty is the reason. That video where the dog owner threatens to beat the puppy because it chewed something and is recorded for clicks because the “mother” tries to protect it is no different – everything is a commodity – even compassion.
Don’t be nasty to the guy who wants humanity reduced to being naked in the jungle – a state of being no human has lived in,
jb-hb
You now reveal not only your gross ignorance of physics, chemistry, biology, ecology and geology but also of history, and anthropology. Basically a pompous idiot.
Darwin noted in his journal that the people who lived in Terra de Fuego were entirely naked and paddled/swan in water that Europeans found too cold in order to collect shellfish.
Numerous indigenous tribes of South America lived naked (or as close to naked as matters) for at least 20,000 years. And would have continued to do so for thousands more years had not ‘civilised’ humans, eager to extract mineral wealth or convert the jungle into monoculture plantations arrived and killed them -either directly or by removing their habitat.
There may still be a very few left, as indicated here
The global energy predicament clearly indicates that those who do not perish from starvation (as the industrial system collapses) and do not die from CO2-induced overheating will have to fend for themselves and will either manufacture clothes from local vegetable matter or animal skins or go naked, whichever is preferable at the time.
”
This week I will examine the growing political awareness
of the pawns in the grand chess game and
show what it looks like when they strike back against their masters.
”The Revolt of the Pawns
https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-revolt-of-the-pawnsHow has television been used as a vehicle of propaganda?
Tell-Lie-Vision
Correction to previous comment:
jb-hb
You now reveal not only your gross ignorance of physics, chemistry, biology, ecology and geology but also of history, and anthropology.
jb-hb
You now reveal not only your gross ignorance of physics, chemistry, biology, ecology and geology but also of history, and anthropology. You also demonstrate your inability to understand elementary mathematics.
Jb-hb – nastiness induces nastiness. If you go back in time, AFKTT was quite civil until dumped on. I can see why they are pretty pissed and have been dragged down to a non-civil level as it seems to be the only level understood. Just accept that people have different opinions – Agree to disagree, but don’t sink so low.
Also note that I do give a shit about what happens on the planet mainly for selfish reasons – I worry it’s all fu#$ed up for my children and it is ignorance that is f@#king it up for them.
And we won’t be back in the jungle “naked” as you seem to think – we just need to take a chill pill on the resource and energy throughput in our economies. The estimate I’ve read is maybe 1950ish. That was a pretty good time overall – didn’t hear my grandparents nor parents complaining too much. We can keep the useful stuff and get rid of all the wasteful stuff and we’ll be on track. Easy.To: D. Benton Smith
I hope you didn’t mean me when you remarked about lurkers who never leave comments. I don’t usually comment but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate Raul’s site nor many of the comments left by you and others. Some people just don’t have much left to say.
I’ve been a longtime donor too.
BTW – the earth won’t turn in Venus. It has feedback mechanisms. It might however be uninhabitable by hairless apes.
Other disinformation and pure nastiness posted by jb-hb recently:
at 280ppm (0.028%) THE PLANTS DIE
All the plants dying is your IDEAL STATE for the earth to be in. Because you are in a death cult.
And yet the record clearly shows that atmospheric CO2 averaged 260ppm for the 800,000 years prior to industrialism and dipped as low as 180 ppm. And yet the plants didn’t die (well the ones not under ice sheets didn’t).
Plants are such ‘clever’ things, they evolve more stomata when atmospheric CO2 is low and fewer when CO2 is high.
It’s a very safe bet that anything jb-hb posts on the topic of atmospheric CO2 is absolute garbage, garbage that he has made up on the spur of the moment, garbage that has no scientific foundation whatsoever, just to promote his utterly distorted false narratives.
And what is more, the more he is proven wrong, the louder he ‘screams’ and uses capital letters and flings nasty insults…which are sure signs of a loser.
One might like to think that he would learn from his numerous mistakes. But just like so many others, he takes no notice of the facts and just doubles-down on the garbage.
And why he thinks ppm need to be expressed as % defies logic. No one in the scientific community expresses concentrations as %.
Nowt queer as folks.
By the way, the meltdown of Greenland ice is surely stupendous at the moment and may well exceed the highly irregular meltdown of 2012 (when a series of warm weather systems generated what was then an unprecedented meltdown). We won’t know for sure until September.
In the meantime, on the matter of the unprecedented meltdown so far, Jason Box (who has been researching for decades) has a new video:
Hi @SusanC
Naw, I wasn’t referring to the many many good hearted lurkers who, like you, come here to read and consider, but do not comment for a variety of reasons that make legitimate sense to themselves. The sort of lurker that I was alluding to are the ones with zero good intentions and who come here only to reconnoiter the territory of truth seekers, because the sort of folks who thrive on TAE are the one’s who those “enemy scouts” want to keep tabs on out of fear, not appreciation.
Observer said
Basically, humans are capable of planet-wide impacts and fossil fuels have allowed us to achieve that.
Planet-wide impacts? Atmosphere-wide impacts is a huge stretch, but you are raising the stakes to planet-wide? I can see how you would support the evironment religion of the cretin AFKTT; birds of a feather …
AFKTT said
Therefore, I assume you will continue to bloviate the way others of your ilk do, as the CO2-induced overheating melts ice sheets, generates unprecedented heat waves and inundations, progressively destroys industrial societies and their food systems over the next decade or so (atmospheric CO2 of 460 ppm, twice the 800,000-year average is clearly in sight and may arrive superfast if, as expected, positive feedbacks self-reinforce and mutually reinforce to increase the rate of overheating), and progressively renders the Earth inhospitable to most extant life forms over the period 2030 to 2060.
When will you idiots learn? You make so many predictions, yet none of them have ever come true. Observer sees you as Jesus, but you are just another “End of the world is nigh” loon, your type have been part of western society for ever but now you are on the internet instead of in the town square.
We all expect a salting of loons among us, you seem happy to play that role along with your friends like Greta “The world will collapse and we will all die before 21 June 2023” Thunberg. There are many more I could quote, all coming onto the internet to tell us the end of the world is nigh. Now you too are making predictions, all life will be gone by 2060, no doubt well after your own death, so we will have to laugh at you in memoriam. I wonder why I think you just plucked those numbers from the same arse that you pluck your science.
When will your madness end …. I am hoping for a prediction!
AFKTT said
Numerous indigenous tribes of South America lived naked (or as close to naked as matters) for at least 20,000 years. And would have continued to do so for thousands more years had not ‘civilised’ humans, eager to extract mineral wealth or convert the jungle into monoculture plantations arrived and killed them -either directly or by removing their habitat.
You make it sound as though civilised humans are not the product of the Earth, as though only indigenous tribes were created on the Earth and the civilised humans are outsiders. I’ve got news for you; all humans are equally part of nature, the Ukraine war is as much “nature” as a cheetah catching and killing a gazelle. All that happens on the planet is nature, your emotional National Geographic fantasy of only the old pretty stuff is good is a shortcoming of your brain, it is not factual. If old is so good, indigenous and primitive is so good, surely we should be turning time backwards as far as possible when Earth was too hot for human survival.
Observer said
Jb-hb – nastiness induces nastiness. If you go back in time, AFKTT was quite civil until dumped on.
Actually he was very pleasant until people started questioning his AGW theories. He then made a big claim that he is a scientist – chemist if I remember the story correctly – who has written books and knows, well basically everything, and that we should just accept what he says because we are all stupid idiots with nothing like the level of intelligence in the AFKTT head. He was saying that he is The Science …. where have I heard that before?
You see, he started insulting us for not accepting his theories. When jb-hb tried to get to the bottom of his theories we all discovered that they had no foundation. Most of us knew that already, because although you rate AFKTT, the rest of us can see that he is just another charlatan. As a result we were all treated to a burst of ad hominem nonsense every time we expressed our disagreement.
You agree with him, you obviously have few analytical skills, but I understand your concern for the planet, we all live here after all. You seem to think that your concern for humanity is superior to the rest of us because you believe in AGW. Well that is simply not true. The main difference is that the people who disagree with AFKTT are not prepared to accept emotion as the reason for self-immolating our lifestyles, or those of our children. If you believe in AGW then show us the proof. If you cannot direct us to proof then it is just an emotional theory.
Unfortuntely the emotional AGW gang do not have proof yet they keep spouting their emotional nonsense and some suckers go for it. Maybe just because it is a little warmer today, or a bit windy, or snow in summer, or whatever, they will allow their ignorance of the cause to be replaced with an emotional belief in AGW, unfortunately that is yet more ignorance, AFKTT’s ignorance.
You agree with him (he’s agreeing with him/herself LOL), you obviously have few analytical skills, but I understand your concern for the planet, we all live here after all. You seem to think that your concern for humanity is superior to the rest of us because you believe in AGW. Well that is simply not true. The main difference is that the people who disagree with AFKTT are not prepared to accept emotion as the reason for self-immolating our lifestyles, or those of our children.
My work here is done.
aspnaz write: I think that sums up AFKTT very nicely
Do you really think anyone cares what you think, aspnaz?
After all, you have repeatedly demonstrated scientific illiteracy of the highest order. And no one with credibility supports your outlandish argument.
As with jb-hb, fact do not matter in your mind, just idiotic ideology and insults.
Thankfully, most truthtellers do not fall for the bullshit churned out by the likes of jb-hb or aspnaz and stick with observed reality and facts..
Note that CP Nate is well aware we that we are in planetary meltdown, as well as political, economic and military meltdown.
“These people lie through their teeth.”
These people lie through their teeth applies to jb-hb and aspnaz, of course.
Especially for jb-hb and aspnaz:
‘Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate crisis, scientists show
Analysis makes it clear human-caused global heating is destroying lives with worse to come without sharp emissions cuts’
Pretty much everyone else knows already. They are the last of the diehards.
Not that there will be any voluntary ‘sharp emissions cuts’ because the banksters and corporations that run the show simply will not allow such things as ‘sharp emission cuts.
Infinite growth on a finite planet is their meme, whatever the cost.
Wow!
All I asked for was a little civility (from all, including AFKTT). I also attempted to provide a lesson in why climate changes from a geological perspective and it just so happens that CO2 also fits into that narrative (anthropogenic or not).Now to address the following before I tap out and give up as it’s clearly not worth my time.
“You agree with him, you obviously have few analytical skills, but I understand your concern for the planet, we all live here after all. You seem to think that your concern for humanity is superior to the rest of us because you believe in AGW. Well that is simply not true. The main difference is that the people who disagree with AFKTT are not prepared to accept emotion as the reason for self-immolating our lifestyles, or those of our children. If you believe in AGW then show us the proof. If you cannot direct us to proof then it is just an emotional theory.”
I do agree with AFKTT. Climate change is just one of many impacts we are having on the planet. However our economic system (lifestyle – as you term it) is the foundational cause as it demands excessive energy and resource throughput which seems to be having increasing impacts on many levels.
Maybe I don’t have analytical skills, maybe I do, but my username suggests I like to observe – my observations over the last decades inform me that all is not well.
Not sure where you got the impression that I think my concern is superior – it is not. I’m as selfish as the next person and care about my spawn (kind of a biological thing).
Maybe not accepting emotion is part of the bigger issue here – maybe this is part of the insecurities I was talking about in my original post. It’s OK to have feelings. I’m certainly mourning for the world and it’s myriad of inhabitants as we pillage. Assuming all hell does break loose, I’ve had something to do with that as have you.
I’m pretty sure we don’t have to self immolate our lifestyles. There is a lot of stuff we can jettison without major impact on our way of life.
You don’t need to look far to find your “proof” – you just need to observe.Tapping out now – I think I’ll go back to quietly observing. Hopefully AFKTT does too then we don’t need to put up with the bullshit.
We may be wrong, we may be right but IMO the precautionary principle should reign supreme. What if all those climate scientists are right? What if we are f@#king over the planet?Observer said
We may be wrong, we may be right but IMO the precautionary principle should reign supreme. What if all those climate scientists are right? What if we are f@#king over the planet?
We know that we cannot maintain our lifestyles if we get rid of our reliable sources of energy. We cannot maintain the current food systems or anything invented after the 1930s without that reliable source of both energy and petroleum product. So, you are asking us to reset our standard of living so that people cannot afford transport, cannot go on holiday etc etc …. and all because you are thinking “What if we are fucking up the planet”? Are you serious, that is enough for you to wind back civilisation? A what if?
To add to that, you seriously expect rational people like myself to buy into your plan? You want me to self-immolate my lifestyle because you can’t sleep at night worrying about the planet? Are you serious? You cannot even present any form of rational theory to back your worries up, they are all emotional and come down to “… but what if”.
Next you will be saying “just one life”, it will be worth it if we save “just one life”.
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