Debt Rattle September 11 2020


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    René Magritte The Art of Conversation 1963   • ‘We Quarantined The Healthy And Exposed The Sick’ (JTN) • One in 100 COVID19 Patients Suffer Punct
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle September 11 2020]

    V. Arnold

    René Magritte The Art of Conversation 1963

    That Magritte is just awesome…that high art is dead and gone.
    Captures The Art of Conversation to the ninth degree, even in 1963….
    Such a sad loss…in the decades since…
    I’m mentoring a couple of Uni students in exactly this lost art…


    Joel Fisher is incorrect. Trump wrote a book called “The America We Deserve” in 2000. I read it many years ago. In it, he was outlining platform for his own presidential bid. I read it because In was metamorposizing from conservatively liberal at the time. I don’t remember a lot of specifics, but I believe he was supporting some flavor of Medicare for All at the time.


    You are closing today’s post with that silly tweet about Trump? That thing has been trotted out by twitter users for a couple of years now, and has been debunked. Took me just a few minutes of fact-checking to find that dozens of articles have already been written about the false claims in that tweet.

    Trump did walk down a NY street a few days after 9/11 – that is for sure a real photo of him walking down the street outside the NYSE on 18 Sept, 2001. There is no proof he paid any workers to help with cleanup or searching for bodies; matter of fact, private citizens were barred from the Ground Zero area by Sept 15. Trump himself certainly never did any such “clean up” or “rescue” missions, and except for that one photo-op shown in the tweet, nobody ever saw Trump (or any of his supposed hired hands) anywhere near Ground Zero ever again. Last year on the anniversary of 9/11, Trump told the story a little differently, saying that he had gone to Ground Zero with “men who worked for me to try to help in any little way that we could.” That’s a little different than the claim that he hired hundreds of workers to help with search and rescue or clean-up efforts. Yeah, well, maybe those guys standing behind him in the photo worked for him. Who knows what he means by either the first or the second claim?

    He did not donate any of the personal money he promised to any 9/11 fund, although the Trump Foundation did donate other people’s money to one such fund. [The Trump Foundation has since been shut down because of gross illegalities in the use of its funds.]

    And just this morning we have this news: “The Trump administration has secretly siphoned nearly $4 million away from a program that tracks and treats FDNY firefighters and medics suffering from 9/11-related illnesses.”

    This Trump love fest you got going on has now reached the level of grossly stupid.

    V. Arnold

    This Trump love fest you got going on has now reached the level of grossly stupid.

    Damn Ilargi; you cannot win; damned if you do and damned if you don’t…
    …so, keep on keeping on… 😉


    I have no Trump love fest going on teri, but I get it that people drowning in the hate fest may see it that way. That’s not my fault, though.

    As for the tweet, possible, I can’t check every bit of info in every day’s Debt Rattle. And as for the NDNY article, well, that fits the hate fest perfectly.

    Mr. House

    Only one president in the last 20 years got a love fest every day of his administration, and he wasn’t even that much better then the others. People still fail to see the media doesn’t present facts or intelligence. They only present narratives


    Ilargi, it’s that you never, ever cover any news that might criticize Trump – except to point out how unfair it all is. There has been no coverage of Trump’s destruction of the environment, deregulation of and further massive bank bailouts to the banks, cronies placed in charge of agencies, increased usage of drone bombings around the planet, horrible sanctions on Venezuela and Cuba, incredibly bad decisions repeatedly made vis a vis Covid, a furthering of the wealth divide which surged with his tax cut bill and his administration’s mishandling of Covid funds, the huge increase in nuclear weapons in the US, etc., etc.

    There are things that Trump deserves blame and castigation for, and the fact that the asshats in the Democratic party are useless and swimming in Russia/Trump conspiracy theories does not alter the reality of the actual bad policies that Trump has undertaken.

    I couldn’t stand Obama, and didn’t vote for him. I never voted for a Republican in my life either, but my tendency to vote for the left never led me to offer up some excuses for Obama’s wrongs by saying how ‘unfair the Republicans were’, or that he was ‘not doing anything that Bush didn’t do before him’, nor would I simply ignore what he was doing in an effort to pretend like it was all acceptable.

    Each president is responsible for his own choices. Some of Trump’s have been awful, but you simply won’t allow any of that kind of talk. It’s true I can’t stand Trump, but then, I despised Obama and his smooth lies and his death march around the globe, and I found Bush intolerable before that. I excuse none of them. I consider it correct and just to let each carry the burden of blame for his destructive choices, or to receive the accolades for what he did right. This isn’t a hate fest against Trump, it’s me asking for a righteous recounting instead of pretending that the guy is above reproach.


    Ilargi, it’s that you never, ever cover any news that might criticize Trump..

    I’ve been saying for well over 4 years now that me quoting the MSM would not be a balance, that I instead AM the balance to their 24/7 storylines. Nothing to do with putting the guy beyond reproach, just reacting to those who on a daily basis condemn him beyond redemption to burn in purgatory forever.

    You mention a number of issues that look valid but mysteriously get very little traction in the MSM, who focus solely on Russia and treason with a sprinkle of Ukraine and Syria thrown in, aka the Democrat agenda. But have you seen how many pieces I’ve run on Assange? Every single one is a scathing criticism of Trump’s role in that, even those who don’t spell it out. And you know what? It’s not something even his more fervent critics ever talk about.

    That I wouldn’t allow “any of that kind of talk” is simply false. I never censor anyone here. Everyone can attest to that.

    What I personally find hard to imagine is that there are not more people, on whatever side, who read a very crappy obviously lying anon Atlantic story about Trump hating the military, or comments on a book that all come down to: he deliberately killed 200,000 Americans, and then still not say: that’s enough. If you don’t do that, then which part of what you call your opinion is actually yours?

    Mr. House

    Its true, he doesn’t censor anyone. Otherwise this would be nakedcapitalism


    Not saying I never would. There are limits. But since I dislike the one-sidedness in ‘reporting’ about Trump as much as I do, why introduce that same kind of bias here?


    But obviously that makes it ironic for me to be accused of being biased. Nobody’s perfect. Beauty’s not the only thing in the eye of the beholder, so is the truth.


    “Punctured lung”. This may be a very poor choice of words, as “punctured” implies the necessity of an object to do the puncturing. Did their ribs break?
    On the TV show “House”, a pneumothorax emergency can be (dramatically) fixed with a large syringe inserted directly into the chest: a puncture that allows air back into a collapsed lung. There is no application of a ventilator, but the word “puncture” becomes relevant, at least. The disclaimer “even among those who were not put on a ventilator”, becomes disingenuous, however.

    Mr. House

    “Beauty’s not the only thing in the eye of the beholder, so is the truth.”

    Good line. Should be the name of a new blog

    Mr. House

    The logic that you don’t have negative stories of trump= you’re a supporter, is the same as when you tell people you aren’t voting period. That makes you a trump voter by default somehow.



    Grateful for your comments today. You point out AND make a case for the other side of the days stories – doing it with an authentic but heavy Heart. It makes what you have contributed valuable.

    “What I personally find hard to imagine is that there are not more people, on whatever side, who read a very crappy obviously lying anon Atlantic story about Trump hating the military, or comments on a book that all come down to: he deliberately killed 200,000 Americans, and then still not say: that’s enough. If you don’t do that, then which part of what you call your opinion is actually yours?”

    THAT’S ENOUGH! What are we using these words to defend? One-sidedness or the facts?

    Does the Atlantic story = Trump hates the military? No, that goes too far. Trump says many disrespectful and ugly things (we’ve all heard him) – and so the Atlantic story true as written or not, lines up with the character of the man we call our President. That part is true and not an opinion; why not point that out? If I say “that’s enough” to anon smear pieces will you say the same to Trump’s disrespectful and ugly smears? It would be one-sided to defend Trump as not hating the military while ignoring what he has said in the opposite direction (with emphasis on the last 4 years).

    Does the Woodward interview/tapes regarding Trumps early understanding of COVID = Trump killed 200,000. No, that goes too far. What we do know is that our President downplayed the severity of the crisis which gave many an unrealistic view of the risk ahead. Was he motivated to downplay the virus because he truly didn’t want to panic us or because he didn’t want to look bad and risk his reelection chances? Based on the President’s actions to date, most understand that he will keep his own personal interests in the forefront at all times. That part is true and not an opinion. So if I say “that’s enough” to Trump killing 200K will you say the same and call out Trump’s manipulation of the facts for his own gain at the expense of you and me? It would be one-sided to defend Trump for being cautious/not creating a panic without mentioning the dangerous impact of his inaccurate assessments of the disease.

    René Magritte The Art of Conversation 1963: A really good conversation will move you in a new direction while taking you to a whole new level – together.


    Based on the President’s actions to date, most understand that he will keep his own personal interests in the forefront at all times. That part is true and not an opinion.

    Sorry, but yes it is. I could make a strong argument that he is not out for personal gain. Being president, and running for the job, has cost him a fortune. He’s not power hungry either like the Bidens and Clintons, or he would have jumped into DC decades before he did.

    Nothing has nothing to do with his assessments of the disease, because as y’all always said, he must listen to the science. And now that he did, he must be hung? He was told one set of facts in a security briefing, turned around and asked Fauci et all about it and they said: no way! Burn the witch if she don’t float!

    I say this while repeating, as I’ve done 100+ times, that a country of 320 million people should be able to find a better president than Trump. But the country has not. It has picked this one. Oh, but that was not the country, that was just the deplorables,..

    The people who want you to pick THEIR candidate instead of Trump also want you to ignore what the Office of the President of the USA stands for, or they would not do what they do. If Biden gets elected, which I seriously doubt, the disgrace to the Office will not magically disappear. It’s been done, and I don’t see how it can be regained, That has zero to do with how you feel about Trumo or any other candidate, it has todo with the stature of the Office.

    Me, I’m afraid it’s lost forever.


    Ilargi, please, I don’t think you have understood my point very well. Trump needs to be held to account for the wrong actions he has taken. That is all I am saying. You seem to want to suggest that I am saying he is always bad and all his actions are always bad. I have not ever accused him of, or bought into, the whole dumbass Russia investigation, and that Ukraine impeachment thing was downright silliness. There are a lot of other ridiculous things he’s been accused of, but I don’t need to make a long list of them all.

    But when I castigate him for the way he and his administration handled the virus (as I did with explicit examples in a comment I left yesterday), I believe that everything I mentioned is worthy of censure. This has nothing to do with Woodward’s book; it has to do with the actual steps the Trump administration has taken since January and February. I have been thinking about this on and off all afternoon while I worked. (Luckily, I work at home, so no-one sees me staring off into the distance doing nothing occasionally.)

    So, I’ll tell you what it is about. This is my personal Covid story. My Dad died in April. At the time, he was in the rehab center at a nursing home. He was only there out of dire medical necessity. We never intended either of our parents to be in a nursing home, but he had taken a horrible fall down a flight of steps where he broke his back and sustained multiple injuries to several organs. Thus, he needed the sort of medical and rehab care he could only get in a medical care facility with 24-hour nursing staff. He had been in this facility since Dec . By March, we were under lockdown orders and were not allowed to visit Dad any more. Sometimes the nurses would hold their personal cell phones close to Dad’s face so Mom could do a face-time sort of thing over the phone with him.

    Our governor could not get PPE supplies from the federal government. Trump/Kushner had picked their favored states and really hated Hogan – the one Republican governor who criticized Trump. Hogan ended up ordering some testing kits from S. Korea and had to have the state troopers and state National Guard meet the plane and hide the fucking supplies so the Feds wouldn’t confiscate them. But we also couldn’t get masks, robes, testing swabs, etc. The staff at Dad’s nursing home had no PPE in March, and were re-using the meager supplies they had in April. In Jan and Feb, Trump was selling supplies made by US manufacturers overseas. In March, he and his team of miscreants were hoarding supplies and sending out stuff to only Republican states – and even that stuff was shoddy and dry-rotted.

    By April, when Hogan placed his order with S Korea, Trump was telling the governors they were on their own, and specifically mocked Hogan a number of times in public, via tweets and at live press conferences. At Dad’s nursing home, 42 staff members and 57 patients eventually tested positive for Covid (after we got the test kits on our own to test them). One staff member and 16 patients died from provable Covid. A significant number of other patients died due to lack of nursing care – this was true at all the rehabs and nursing homes; the staff was overworked, there were no supplies, doctors were working at both the long-term care facilities and at local hospitals.

    On Dad’s last day, someone on the nursing staff (realizing the end was near) let my Mom sneak in for a half-hour visit. Somebody loaned her a mask, gloves and a robe. Dad died later, in the middle of the night, all alone and having not seen any of his 6 children for more than a month. (Mom has not contracted Covid so far herself, thank god.)

    Dad’s life did not have to end this way. This is personal to me. It is also a fact – a FACT – that the Trump/Kushner/Pence handling of supplies, equipment, testing and tracing, supply transit routing, PPE procurement, the whole nine yards, was grossly negligent, inexcusably slip-shod, and showed such preference for Trump’s favored states that no-one can excuse it. I don’t blame him for the pandemic. I blame him for only and exactly what I itemized here.

    And while I am at it, let me tell you what else I am thinking right now. My father was worth a million Donald Trumps. Dad was a world-renowned scientist who was once nominated for the Nobel prize in physics. He was inducted into the basketball hall of fame in his home state. He could milk a cow, ride a horse, and fix the damn tractor with baling twine and bubble gum. He never lied, never cheated, sang like a lark, taught us to play chess, had us all reading before we ever went to school, ingrained in us a thirst for knowledge, and led his large family with humor and love, love, love.

    Trump cost me my wonderful Dad. Fuck Trump. And that is all I want to say about that.


    @teri – so sorry to hear about your experience with your Dad. Of course you’re (very reasonably) angry. Without wanting to defend trump, I just want to observe that virtually the entire world has made a complete clusterf*ck of handling Covid. All the errors you point out were taken not by him solely or exclusively – he’s president, not God. But OTOH, I empathise with what you must be feeling – I’ve had nothing like that happen to me this year, yet I’ve felt massively angry and wanting to hold someone/anywhere to account for the train-wreck that has played out. Sadly, I think it’s highly unlikely that anyone will ever be held accountable, and that making peace with that is an important part of the process.

    – firstly a compliment.. i think you’re handling the Trump thing well. The deluge of stories in the MSM doesn’t need any more amplification, only the counterpoints highlighted. That doesn;t make you a Trump fan-boy.
    Re your comment above “There are 28 million cases and counting. That’s 280,000 punctured lungs.”
    Please go back and read the article more carefully – it says“As many as one in every hundred patients hospitalized with Covid-19 suffer ‘punctured lung’“. I don’t have a count of hospital admissions to hand, but impossible to believe there’s been 28 million admissions.



    Sad to hear about your dad. By your own description, he was an amazing man. You honor him by telling your story; thank you for sharing. LOVE to you and your family.


    So incredibly heartening to see the sharing and support, with no ego and pretentiousness, among the comments. Restores my faith in humanity.


    It must be so painful and embittering to helplessly watch a loved one suffer from the ugliness of political maneuvering.


    I don’t wish to take anything away from the rest of your story, Teri, but the story about Hogan ordering testing kits from South Korea and guarding them from the Feds seems to have been a PR stunt.

    The capability of the political species for self-aggrandizement seems nearly infinite.

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