bluebird
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Looking forward, will wills and trusts be necessary? Everyone is told to have a will to designate one’s stuff. But as the economy worsens, there may not be anything to leave one’s heirs and special friends.
I had also heard that a trust hides one’s stuff from probate court. But why setup a trust if there might not be anything to probate?
Isn’t it possible that this ‘extend and pretend’ game could continue for Obama’s second term? It seems unlikely for four more years, but how many thought things would have continued this long.
@William – From what I see of the people that I know, if they believed that we are moving towards 3rd world standards, they would do some kind of preparing. But they don’t believe that our standards will decline. Therefore, they are not preparing. I’ve even had people tell me they don’t believe it. What they have now, is normal. They are unable to see anything get worse, only that things are going to get better. Technology will save us!
The people near me don’t care about the massive debt bubble. That is because they can still buy whatever they want with a credit card or cash. They don’t think it necessary to prepare for anything or read informative articles. Only when this massive bubble bursts, and people will not be able to get what they want, then maybe they will figure it out.
I view ‘Rmoney’ as the face of the wealthy. This election is of the wealthy, by the wealthy, for the wealthy. It appears Obama is slightly leading in the polls, but too close to call. But what better way to throw the election to ‘Rmoney’, than to crash the markets.
Who else thinks there are wealthy insiders that will be able to take their gains out of the markets before the big decline? The unlucky investors will be left holding empty bags and lots of debt. And aren’t these the people who the wealthy prey upon to buy up whatever assets they can at cheap prices when people need to sell their stuff to pay bills.
Yeh, maybe it’s time to stop accessing banks/credit unions before Internet banking is denied. When the tipping point is reached that throws the world into a financial crisis, does anyone else think access to banks will suddenly stop the auto-deposits and auto-payments? Or will banking gradually be eliminated?
Viscount – We of the 99% won’t have any money. It isn’t going to matter whether it is $50,000 per year, or $50. In the interim, a bit of cash is needed to buy tools, seeds for food, shelter.
@Nassim – Perhaps that is when the custom began, to ensure that our loved ones are treated with dignity and respect. Cemetery burials is a fascinating, but morbid topic for additional research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemetery@jal – In a similar frame of mind, it occurred to me that we pay to bury dead people nowadays in nice maintained cemeteries. How far back does this custom go? Throughout history, there have always been small plots of land to bury loved ones, but when did people start paying for this service? And after a couple hundred years being dead, does the current generation care, other than perhaps genealogists.
Ilargi said “we have underestimated something; not the power of the central banks to prop up banks and markets, as I see suggested in this thread a few times, but the complacency, gullibility and lack of working neurons of the people who are being stripped bare and led into misery by voluntarily handing over what little of their wealth remains to do the propping up.”
What I keep discovering, is that people today believe this current lifestyle is normal. They love to buy, buy, spend, spend, take on even more debt, etc. Somewhere they have lost their critical thinking skills. And no one that I know wants to take responsibility and be accountable for their actions and their decisions. It is always somebody else’s fault when things do not go the way they want.
For the 4+ years that I have been reading TAE, I keep trying to step back and become less dependent on the global system. But it is almost impossible because nobody else wants to form a smaller community. Everyone seems to want to grow and expand.
The more I read, it appears that when the music stops, there will be no chairs and we will all flounder until we die. Few people want to voluntarily change, until they have to. And when forced to change, it could be too late to learn basic life-skills.
Edit: When the system does collapse, those of us who have connected the dots and heeded the warnings to prepare, we can try to guide others. It won’t be easy.
Bernanke probably knows more about what is going on behind the scenes than we do. Timing is everything.
Also, there were several U.S. embassies attacked this week. Seems odd to me these attacks were due to a youtube video. More likely these were coordinated attacks timed to the 9/11 anniversary that unfortunately killed an ambassador and 3 other Americans, and then using the video as a cover-up. But what do I know.
Golden Oxen said “The purchasing power of the paid out money is however, a totally different topic which has to be considered in this topic.”
Exactly so. If everyone ran to the banks to withdraw all of their deposits, the money would have little to no value. They may have all their money, but it would likely take a wheelbarrow of dollars to purchase a gallon of milk for the kids.
Personally, I don’t think they will ‘print’ for depositors. We are in a global financial crisis, and to prevent a worldwide panic of bank runs and mayhem, they will need to coordinate a global temporary solution…such as a limit to the amounts that can be withdrawn.
Golden Oxen said “I can think of no greater act to create mayhem, revolution, and total financial chaos than the the US government allowing depositors to go clean in Federally insured saving institutions. They realize this for sure and would print what was needed to pay. “
I am not so sure that the government would print the dollars to cover every FDIC depositor. Rather I think the government would set limits on the amount the depositor could withdraw.
There is already precedence in Ohio during the Savings&Loan crisis in the mid 80s…
March 15, 1985 – Ohio Governor Richard Celeste temporarily halted business at all of state’s ailing thrifts;
March 21, 1985 – allowed to reopen on with $750 cap on withdrawals (designed to prevent all-out assault on deposits)https://www.kipnotes.com/SavingsLoans.htm
edit to add link
@skipbreakfast – thanks for the additional explanations concerning deflation and inflation. good examples that can help people understand these concepts.
I think most people are complacent by nature. They get in a daily routine and that’s life. Occasionally there are times that are not so good, but tomorrow is another day, a better day.
And I have found that absolutely no one wants to hear that what they have become accustomed to, constant consuming…is going to change, most likely change drastically.
Instead, I have been mentioning that we have Affluenza, a false sense of affluency.
It is an older PBS documentary, https://www.pbs.org/kcts/affluenza/
and also a book.
https://www.bookbrowse.com/reviews/index.cfm/book_number/884/affluenzaSome people do seem to understand the concept of Affluenza, but still can’t seem to eliminate this condition on their own. Sadly, it will probably be an epic collapse that will eradicate Affluenza.
Everyone I know is feeling good about the future. Truly the best is yet to come. Technology gets better all the time. Nothing to worry about. They all believe I am crazy, nutty, and out-of-my-mind. One day, they will wake up…too late.
@Variable81 – It is a big dilemna. What makes sense for 1 person may not be so good for another. And no matter what you decide, it is nearly impossible to discuss it with others who have not yet awakened. Also, try reading thru comments on this thread for additional info…
https://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/bubbles-and-the-titanic-betrayal-of-public-trust.html
It doesn’t appear there are any good ways to exit the Euro for any country, so they will keep kicking the can together until they all implode with one big kaboom.
Perhaps Germany is getting everything in place to exit the Euro and Eurozone, but appearing to everyone else that they want Greece to exit first.
@skipbreakfast – very well stated!
As sensato discussed, preparing is an ongoing process. There is always something to learn every day. My learning curve has been my own, so that is why the process is taking me so long. Everyone else refuses to leave the status quo. I hope I have gained something to pass on to others when it is someday needed.
Well, it has been almost 5 years since I connected the dots and understood that the global Ponzi would eventually collapse. I particularly liked the way Orlov described the timing of prediction…
You see, predicting that something is going to happen is a lot easier than predicting when something will happen. Suppose you have an old bridge: the concrete is cracked, chunks of it are missing with rusty rebar showing through. An inspector declares it “structurally deficient.” This bridge is definitely going to collapse at some point, but on what date? That is something that nobody can tell you. If you push for an answer, you might hear something like this: If it doesn’t collapse within a year, then it might stay up for another two. And if it stays up that long, then it might stay up for another decade. But if it stays up for an entire decade, then it will probably collapse within a year or two of that, because, given its rate of deterioration, at that point it will be entirely unclear what is holding it up.
more…
https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/06/fragility-and-collapse-slowly-at-first.htmlSfV said “You have to wonder how people will cope when it really gets bad.”
I suspect most people will not cope well, especially with no phones to text friends.
Ann Barnhardt is another one who advocates getting out of the financial institutions. So assuming she has gotten out of the markets like she is telling everyone to do, does anyone know what Barnhardt has done with her money? Does she farm, grow food?
@Skipbreakfast – Is PonziWorld your blog? There are a lot of interesting postings, I will need to take a look at them.
@ all
I previously held an IRA at Vanguard. It was the Money Market Mutual Fund holding only U.S. Treasury Bills, VUSXX
Although it was the safest Mutual Fund to preserve my principal, the main reason I transferred this IRA to my Credit Union holding a Certificate of Deposit was this…
1/27/10 Suspending Money Market Redemptions Is Now Legal;
SEC Approves New Money Market Regulation In 4-1 Vote
Zero Hedge discussed a month ago the disastrous prospects of what would happen if the new proposal contemplated by the SEC, which would allow the suspension of redemptions from Money Market Funds, were to pass. Well, in a nearly unanimous vote, Money Market Funds now have the ability to suspend redemptions, courtesy of the SEC’s just passed 4-1 vote.
…at this point, should there be another meltdown, money market investors will not, repeat not, be able to withdraw their money. As the SEC noted: “We understand that suspending redemptions may impose hardships on investors who rely on their ability to redeem shares.”
In other words, if one has a Money Market MUTUAL FUND, the SEC could deny access to withdraw any of your money.
Edit to add ZeroHedge first link about denial of access to Money Market Mutual Funds and more detail discussed about Money Market Mutual Funds…
Trivium, a few other things to think about.
1. If you are under 59 1/2, you will pay a penalty for withdrawing early, in addition to paying taxes on the larger amount of income.
2. If you are 64, and about to apply for Medicare, consider that the monthly premium for Medicare could be based on your larger amount of income from the IRA. It would depend on the timing of your age and when/if the IRA is redeemed.
3. Consider transferring the IRA to Credit Union or local small bank, and put it in a Certificate of Deposit with the shortest term, usually 6 months. Eventually, the banks will fail and credit unions too, but in the interim, the principal amount of the IRA will be preserved.
4. I have been told that if one has legal issues and could be sued, do not cash out the IRA. If one has an IRA, then no one can legally take it. Consult attorney as I’m not sure if I have said this correctly.
5. As you still have your job, in the 401k transfer the money to a Treasury Bill mutual fund to preserve the principal, if your company has that option.
6. If you do lose your job, immediately either cash out the 401k, or transfer it to IRA holding short term certificate of deposit.
P.S. I am not a financial adviser, so what was best for me, may not be best for you. This is free, you get what you pay for. It may be helpful to you or maybe not.
What happens to people who bought McMansions, BMWs, the finest clothes, the latest techie gadgets, took exotic vacations, putting everything on credit cards and loans? If these people can’t afford the interest, how could they pay down the principal? In a debt jubilee, would these people get to keep all their stuff, or have to sell it, or in exchange for ‘no debt’, these people would become indentured servants to those financial institutions and/or the government?
@davefairtex – This is a Keybank checking account, not a mutual fund. It is FDIC insured. It is called a money market checking account because it pays 0.01% interest. If you read the selected segments that I posted below, there is a difference in the wording of withdrawals from a checking account vs savings account. But what is curious, are these subaccounts within checking.
From the Keybank Deposit Account Agreement and Funds Availability Policy
Checking Accounts. Checking Accounts consist of two subaccounts: a checking subaccount and a savings subaccount. All of the provisions of this Agreement and all of the terms and conditions governing your Checking Account apply to the Account as a whole without reference to the subaccounts, except as provided in this section. If your Checking Account earns interest, the interest rate will apply to both subaccounts. If your Checking Account does not earn interest, no interest will be paid on either subaccount.
We transfer funds in the checking subaccount to the savings subaccount when such funds are not needed to pay checks, debits, or other items drawn on your Checking Account. We may sweep the entire balance into the savings subaccount during the weekend when no items will post to your Checking Account. We may also establish a threshold balance in the checking subaccount and transfer any funds in excess of the threshold balance to the savings subaccount. All checks, debits and other items will be paid from balances credited to the checking subaccount. All deposits and credits will be credited to the checking subaccount. We periodically reallocate the balances between the subaccounts to make funds available in the checking subaccount to pay checks, debits and other items drawn on your Checking Account. These transfers will be the only transactions on the savings subaccount. We will not allow more than six transfers per monthly statement period from the savings subaccount and, if a sixth such transfer is made, all funds in the savings subaccount will be transferred to the checking subaccount for the remainder of the monthly statement period.
In accordance with federal law, we reserve the right to require seven days’ prior notice of any transfer from a Money Market Checking Account (Negotiable Order of Withdrawal). Subject to these limitations, you can make an unlimited number of withdrawals in person or by check and arrange for preauthorized transfers and withdrawals, including telephone transfers.
Savings Accounts
…
We reserve the right to require seven (7) days prior written notice of any intended withdrawal (whether made in person, by check, by telephone or by preauthorized transfer or withdrawal).Davefairtex said “From all I’ve been able to find out, checking accounts are demand deposits (as in I’m demanding my money, so give it to me) and for that guarantee of instant gratification you don’t earn any interest.”
What if the checking account is a money market type of checking, paying only a few cents interest a month?
Does anyone know if a MM type checking is also a demand account that one can demand their money to be withdrawn?
Otto Matic said “Restricting bank withdrawals to a small manageable weekly amount over the entire depositor base of a TBTF effectively HIDES the fact the banks are broke in the broader sense from Duh-public.”
I fully expect the banksters to limit withdrawals for yet another reason…so that the depositors don’t go after the banksters with guns and ropes.
The people believe their money is insured at the banks, and will expect to withdraw it, at some point. If told there is a global crisis, a lot of people will take whatever they can get, and wait patiently until the next withdrawal amount.
@xyz – was it this site that analyzes for
Extraverted (E) Introverted (I)
Sensing (S) Intuitive (N)
Thinking (T) Feeling (F)
Judging (J) Perceiving (P)Myers-Briggs Type Indicator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_IndicatorMost everyone that I know, do not see the bright red flashing warning lights in the global economy. They have come to believe that the best way to create wealth is investing in the markets via dollar cost averaging. Also that while markets go down, they believe that over time, staying in the markets will increase one’s wealth. A sister has told me that she refuses to get out of the markets because she will miss the gains when the markets go back up. This same sister couldn’t believe my money was in a credit union that earns a pittance. She asked why I didn’t put my money elsewhere. And I told her it was more important to preserve my principal rather than losing 50% when the markets go down. These people just don’t get what’s coming.
Edit – And a credit union, or even Treasury Bills, is for the short term. Long term there is nothing safe.
Americans have been conditioned for many years to not speak-out nor protest, because it usually doesn’t do any good. Besides, I’ve been told, that ‘we’ have already fought for our rights and freedoms, and we have laws and regulations to ‘protect’ us.
Then I’ll say something about all that fraud and corruption, and our money being stolen.
I’ll be told that goes on all the time, there is nothing we can do about it, and then these people go back to buying stuff with credit cards.When people have no money, no credit cards, nothing to eat, then they will wake up.
Thanks for the documentary about the Dust Bowl. Several analogies in it to today’s world of greed and loss.
At the end…“People are thinking differently about taking care of the land.”
“Don’t fool yourself.”
“You can’t convince me we’ve learned our lesson.”
“It’s just not in our blood, to play a safe game.”@Stoneleigh – this sounds like my sister. In her previous career, she was a banker for a major bank in Boston and worked with banks in Europe on the implementation of the Euro project. She sees everything from a business perspective. Obviously to her, there is no intentional fraud.
She is the person who has the most difficulty seeing the ever increasing Ponzi. She, and her husband, have made gazillions of money, have all kinds of financial investments, and a professional financial planner because they have too many other priorities and personal interests.
With the recent LIBOR and PFGBest scandals, I tried again to explain about the dire economic situation and that the markets are due for a big decline. Well, she tells me…she’s not getting out of the markets because she will miss the gains when the markets go back up.
I think she will only wake up when this huge Ponzi implodes.
Prisoners – our next slaves 🙁
While this does offer an opportunity for the prisoners for work, it opens it up for all kinds of abuses, especially when prisons are sold to the private sector. How would private owners treat these people? Scary thoughts.
This is a most interesting topic to read. If i try to discuss any of it with others, I get the blank stare and disbelief. Most people cannot comprehend that air conditioning will not be around forever. People take it for granted during these hot summer heat waves. I have never heard such grumbling recently as when the electric power was taken down by trees in the storms, and people have to go elsewhere to stay cool.
So Greenpa, I can believe that workers find it very difficult to work long hours in the heat and sun. We have been softies during this age of cheap energy.
Hard times are a-coming.
skipbreakfast -That essay could have been written by me. My family and friends act exactly the same way. By now, people either understand our financial peril, or they don’t. Unfortunately, most don’t, and it is impossible to open their eyes, ears and mind for them. They have to do it themselves.
When this Ponzi implodes, it will be epic. I only hope I can be of help to my family and friends when that time comes.
You could link the Treasury Direct account to a 2nd CU or bank. I don’t think you can do this online, but I have read it is done via paperwork using snailmail.
Or divide your savings among several banks and credit unions. If withdrawals are limited to a few hundred dollars from a financial institution, then having a combo of several credit unions/banks, you are able to withdraw additional money.
