Debt Rattle December 16 2020

 

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  • #66905

    Henri Cartier-Bresson Trafalgar Square on the Day of the Coronation of George VI 1937   • Yes, HCQ Is Scientifically Proven Against COVID-19 (Raf
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle December 16 2020]

    #66906
    teri
    Participant

    About the Hunter Biden/Bill Barr thing: Barr probably didn’t want to be the James Comey of 2020. Remember, Comey announced an investigation into Hillary Clinton just 10 days before the election and then mysteriously announced a week later that there was nothing to investigate after all. Everyone jumped all over him for costing her the election. (“Everyone” being the politicos and the MSM – the voters loathed the woman with good reason, so she probably wouldn’t have won anyway.)

    The thing is that there is nothing Barr could have said that would have really mattered. The IRS is looking into it. It isn’t even really in Barr’s purview at this point. Hunter Biden, while a total jag-off and junkie, has not been, and is not currently, under any criminal investigation. His taxes are being examined – as are Trump’s, BTW – but he hasn’t been indicted for anything, nor does this tax investigation involve criminal charges. A banking associate of Hunter Biden is under criminal investigation of some sort. However, neither the tax issues nor the bank investigation have anything (so far – and they have been looking into these matters for quite awhile) to do with Joe Biden, the guy who was actually running for office.

    I’m old enough to remember the embarrassment of the Clintons, the Bushes, the Kennedys, and Jimmy Carter; all of them had relatives who were either indicted/convicted criminals, or who had been involved in scandals and financial improprieties while their family member was running for office.

    Barr might have spoken out if there was more to this story, but so far it isn’t much more of anything remotely provable than the same damn tax stuff that Trump himself has been going through for years. And Barr would be in a position to know.

    Still, I’m glad Barr is out the door now. Next we can get rid of Trump, who is not doing anything remotely worthwhile for anyone and then Biden, who won’t do anything for the people either. And Pelosi and McConnell and Pompeo and Dejoy and Devos and…….oh, get rid of them all.

    #66922
    John Day
    Participant

    John Ward at The Slog has another insightful piece up. What lovely use of English!
    They won’t take “No” for an answer

    It does seem eternally odd, does it not, that the US judicial system seems happy to throw out Republican affidavits giving evidence of electoral fraud, but at the same time the US has a media set that suffixes every report on what President Trump says about it with “although he has no evidence to support his claims”….and the world anglosphere falls lamely into line.

    It is truly Pythonic, with just a dash of Catch22: “We’re not going to review these affidavits because they’re worthless,” said the Ostriches, “so will you stop saying you were cheated, because you haven’t got any evidence – we know this, because we don’t need to look at it”.

    My view is simple: it is entirely possible that Trump is lying his fat head off. But the common sense rejoinder to that pov is:

    Why press ahead so vigorously with a case if (privately) you know it to be BS? And
    If you the State know it to be BS, why not investigate every affidavit thoroughly and enumerate their lack of worth instance by instance?
    In short, we have a plaintiff behaving like a guy who’s done his homework, and the State dismissing everything out of hand for fear of finding magic bullets flying backwards, and Presidential Heads exploding in the wrong direction.

    #66923
    John Day
    Participant

    Man, that Sweden curve screams “VITAMIN D PROTECTS!”
    How can this remain such a secret?

    #66924
    John Day
    Participant

    I’m almost out of zinc at my desk at work, to bag up and label for people with COVID, who I am treating with ivermectin, doxycycline, zinc and vitamin-D. I got the first report yesterday from a patient, that the pharmacy did not have all the ivermectin to dispense that day, but enough for the first dose, anyway.
    I asket the pharmacist at Walgreens today if there had been many prescriptions for ivermectin, zinc and doxyycline for COVID. “No”. I bought out their zinc. I have 25 treatments worth, 26 counting what I still have at work.
    The hydroxychloroquine piece is good, and I still have my chloroquine from February. Jenny and i haven’t needed it yet. I should go ahead and get some ivermectin, as well as prescribing it for patients and family members.

    #66925
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Pennsylvania Republicans Ask SCOTUS To Again Review Election Lawsuit

    In addition to the Pennsylvania lawsuit, two of Sidney Powell’s lawsuits (Michigan and Georgia) were put on the SCOTUS docket yesterday.


    Powell is seeking to challenge those rulings directly at the Supreme Court, bypassing the federal appeals court level.

    The cases are King v. Whitmer, 20-815, and In Re Pearson, 20-816.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/ex-trump-lawyer-powell-asks-high-court-to-nullify-two-biden-wins

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/20-815.html
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/20-816.html

    #66926
    John Day
    Participant

    @Madamski: I replied to last night’s reply, you “Pretender”.

    #66927
    madamski cafone
    Participant

    This is, as the kids say, from some guy on the web (a site called Gray Mirror, itals mine):

    “America’s water-polo elections

    “Let’s face facts. There is nothing historically un-American about election skulduggery. Not only is it traditional, it may even be proper. If your party gets outskulduggled, that tells us something—just as if you lost a real head-bashing contest. It tells you that the other side was strong and your side was weak.

    “Woe to the defeated, Brennus said! And chucked his sword upon the scales—which the whipped Romans had to balance in gold. They remembered that whipping for a long time. Maybe they even turned a profit on it in the end.

    “While skulduggery is wrong, in a sense it is right; because an election is a proxy for civil war. Perhaps the best analogy is water polo. Above the water, water polo is a sport with a referee. Under the water, anything goes—these guys are twisting each others’ balls all afternoon. (And their lawyers are twisting each others’ balls about the rules.) Also, if you do not play the underwater game, you are playing wrong and will just lose.

    “Since balloted elections are actually designed to destroy information—that secret-ballot thing—the bottom layer of every election, the trust layer below anything the security layer can touch—is pure agar for any and all ball-twisting fuckery. The security of an election is a consequence of the thickness of this layer and should be treated as such. Also, if you do not play the underwater game, you are playing wrong and will just lose.

    “If any election system were fuckery-proof, would it need election observers? Also: is there any system in America that counts or tracks citizens precisely and reliably? Also: is there any system in America that you would trust to mechanically distinguish everyone’s signature from some random scrawl? Also: what stops anyone running a voting station from slipping ballots in at the end of the day, while crossing off the names of people who didn’t vote? There is plenty of evidence that there is no election fraud—and plenty of evidence that no one is looking for it, or even could find it.

    We know exactly what a genuinely secure physical and electronic counting system looks like. It looks like Vegas. We know exactly what a genuinely secure 21st-century voting system looks like. It looks like Sweden, Mexico or even Iraq.

    “Ours looks nothing like any of these things. It looks, in fact, like a typical American shitshow. (Or, as the New York Times put it in 2016, horror show.) And anyone who lacks quick and savage comebacks for the above questions is ill-positioned to educate us out of this Bayesian prior.”

    #66928
    John Day
    Participant

    I got asked last month if I treat for COVID, and how, by the AAPS. I said “yes, but I’m in a clinic that’s booked up for a month”. So, they did not put me on the published list.
    Here is the link to the global and US-by-State list:
    https://www.exstnc.com/
    In Texas, there’s more HCQ in use than ivermectin so far, though some might have changed without updating.

    #66929
    madamski cafone
    Participant

    @ John Day

    I am, indeed, a pretender, but over the decades, have become what I pretend to be. People have always had trouble with me being real but when I pretend to be real, they eat it up.

    ‘When illusion and reality are one, the people are content and the kingdom prospers. When illusion and reality are separate, the people are confused and the kingdom suffers.’ wise Asian stereotype, circa 7th century BCE

    #66930
    zerosum
    Participant

    non-sequiturs

    Listen to Biden announce his cabinet

    #66933
    John Day
    Participant

    Blog’s up, but you’ve seen most of it. https://www.johndayblog.com/2020/12/keeping-up.html

    Look into this site:
    How to Start Preparing for Hard Times​ ​on a Very Modest Budget
    https://grandpappy.org/hssstart.htm

    #66934
    zerosum
    Participant

    Thanks
    I got Grandpappy bookmarked

    #66935
    Noirette
    Participant

    Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for an Unapproved Product Review Memorandum

    (for Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine/ BNT162b2)

    PDF. https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download

    p. 41

    As specified in the protocol, suspected cases of symptomatic COVID-19 that were not PCR- confirmed were not recorded as adverse events unless they met regulatory criteria for seriousness. Two serious cases of suspected but unconfirmed COVID-19 were reported, both in the vaccine group, and narratives were reviewed. In one case, a 36-year-old male with no medical comorbidities experienced fever, malaise, nausea, headache…

    (…)

    Among 3,410 total cases of suspected but unconfirmed COVID-19 in the overall study population, 1,594 occurred in the vaccine group vs. 1816 in the placebo group. Suspected COVID-19 cases that occurred within 7 days after any vaccination were 409 in the vaccine group vs. 287 in the placebo group. It is possible that the imbalance in suspected COVID-19 cases occurring in the 7 days postvaccination represents vaccine reactogenicity with symptoms that overlap with those of COVID-19. Overall though, these data do not raise a concern that protocol-specified reporting of suspected, but unconfirmed COVID-19 cases could have masked clinically significant adverse events that would not have otherwise been detected.

    All very odd, not very ‘scientific’ and dressed up in obfuscations.

    I interpret the first sentence quoted (very unclear, a case of COV-19 can’t in itself be an ‘adverse effect’ due to some medication / vaccine / other, or at least not so in the frame of such a review!) and the general gist, to mean that in all the Ss studied, some experienced the kinds of symptoms and ‘feeling ill’ that resemble those of COV-19, but they were not tested for it, so who knows. The ppl ‘feeling ill’ 7 days after the vaccination vs. placebo were 409 (vac) vs 287 (placebo.) The conclusion is that all those vaccinated ‘feeling ill’ may be exhibiting symptoms that represent a reaction to the vaccine that “overlap” (that is the word used) with those of COV-19.

    No accusations of fraud / lying here, simply all this has become so murky sense-making is difficult. Reports are hard to find, spun and twisted by the media, cherry-picked, sometimes downright turned upside-down in the reporting. The originals are (imho) written to allow this, and support wildly different statements and critiques. The reports are not sincere, or honest, or ‘best efforts’ – they are marketing, propaganda efforts, dressed up in ‘scientism’ (aka deceptive concepts, wordings) language. Based on – who knows what. Big Pharma Triumph in the US, EU….

    #66936
    Mr. House
    Participant

    “Reports are hard to find, spun and twisted by the media, cherry-picked, sometimes downright turned upside-down in the reporting”

    And have been since the beginning of this farce. Believe the science! Everything is compromised in the Age of Fraud.

    #66938

    #66939
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    The UK government disclosed the ingredients of the Pfizer vaccine:

    What [Pfizer] COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 contains
    • The active substance is BNT162b2 RNA.
    After dilution, the vial contains 5 doses, of 0.3 mL with 30 micrograms mRNA each.
    • This vaccine contains polyethylene glycol/macrogol (PEG) as part of ALC-0159
    • The other ingredients are:
    – ALC-0315 = (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate),
    – ALC-0159 = 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide,
    – 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, 5
    – cholesterol,
    – potassium chloride,
    – potassium dihydrogen phosphate,
    – sodium chloride,
    – disodium hydrogen phosphate dihydrate,
    – sucrose

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/943249/Information_for_UK_recipients.pdf

    Official consent form:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/942009/PHE_11843_Covid-19_Consent_form_adults_able_to_consent.pdf

    Consent form suggested by UK Medical Freedom Alliance:
    https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fa5866942937a4d73918723/5fc76c8cbd4d75f7ea592501_UKMFA_CV19_vaccine_consent_form_v1-1.pdf

    #66940
    madamski cafone
    Participant

    TRUST THE SCAM: BARR RESIGNS AFTER COVERING UP EPSTEIN CASE, HIDING HUNTER BIDEN INVESTIGATION

    Bit of a smorgasbord, hits and misses, but overall, a lot of the shit on the TP roll is real. A damning smear.

    #66941
    Mr. House
    Participant
    #66942
    madamski cafone
    Participant

    The main assertion of Raul’s text .jpeg was true just 8 days ago, while we have been told for much longer than that to expect a mainstream pharma vaccine and submit to the discipline. I think the most important assertion to vet in that text is the final one and the second one.

    #66945
    madamski cafone
    Participant

    One ore attempt. Let’s hope the third time is the charm:

    from the Year Zero article from Consent Factory linked above:

    “but there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any authentic public health threat that remotely justifies the totalitarian emergency measures we are being subjected to or the damage that is being done to society. ”

    What is it with the ridiculous absolutes stated bassawkwards? If not for the word “the” between “justifies” and “totalitarian”, and the words “are being”, the sentence is nonsense. Covid is a very real virus with very real consequences occurring through high contagiousness, i.e., an authentic serious health threat. Any effective response to such a thing is by nature totalitarian because things to which the vast majority are susceptible to encounter and be infected with are universal in scope.

    Yes, they fucked up their response big-time. Yes, they are obviously using it to exploit us for their desires. That’s what they do. Yes, we are being lied to. Yes, they are screwing us over. Yes yes yes…

    But that’s no reason to go hyperbolistic lobbing bullshit missiles.

    Recap: there IS an authentic health crisis. It’s proper defanging would have required measures totalitarian in nature (like we saw China do when this thing started). What has been done instead is awful at best and is moving rapidly toward worst.

    The more profound martial arts understand that your force against the foe works best when it doesn’t directly counter the foe’s force but, instead, deceptively accepts then diverts. This is better not necessarily because a direct punch in the nose is ineffective. It is better because it prevents you from becoming a mirror image of your foe, which is both morally and strategically asinine. Morally because an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind including thyself, and strategically because the foe knows itself better than it does you, and becoming like your foe makes you an open book to it and a mystery to yourself.

    And so you see smart people like Manufacturing Consent’s writer waxing deeply sophomoric. It’s enough to make a girl think they’re writing for the CIA.

    #66946
    Mr. House
    Participant

    “And so you see smart people like Manufacturing Consent’s writer waxing deeply sophomoric. It’s enough to make a girl think they’re writing for the CIA.”

    And why is that?

    #66947
    Mr. House
    Participant

    Do you think this is the end? People will get their vaccines and everything will go back to normal? Perhaps those that don’t get the vaccine will be forced out of cities and unable to find employment with any major corporations? They won’t be able to get a job with any small biz because seems like most of them will be gone. I took my shades off when the future wasn’t so bright.

    #66948
    Mr. House
    Participant

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/flow-us-imports-continues-surge-now-twice-rate-exports

    What the hell are people buying? I think most of thee people thinks will be going back to normal once they get their vaccine. People should be saving every cent right now until things become more clear.

    #66949
    Bill7
    Participant

    > Recap: there IS an authentic health crisis.

    Mmm- wouldn’t that be self-evident- certainly by now!- , and unneeding of fear-porn catapulted 24/7 from most every media source for the last nine months?

    As for who’s writing for the Dark Side, I rather doubt it’s Mr. Hopkins.

    #66950
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    I previously mentioned the presence of Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) in the Pfizer vaccine. And unless Moderna states otherwise, there’s a good chance it’s a component of their vaccine, too. It’s used with the lipid nanoparticles coating the mRNA.

    “BioNTech/Pfizer and Moderna encapsulate their mRNA vaccines within LNPs [lipid nanoparticles].”
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c07197#

    An unknown percentage of the population will have reactions to PEG being injected into their bodies.

    “Polyethylene glycol (PEG)-coated nanopharmaceuticals can cause mild to severe hypersensitivity reactions (HSRs), which can occasionally be life threatening or even lethal. The phenomenon represents an unsolved immune barrier to the use of these drugs, yet its mechanism is poorly understood…”
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.9b03942

    It might be happening already in the US with the Pfizer vaccine, to people without any known allergies:


    A health worker in Alaska experienced a serious allergic reaction just 10 minutes after receiving Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine on Tuesday, marking the first adverse effect from the vaccine reported in the U.S.

    The health worker experienced an anaphylactic reaction and was taken to the emergency room, then later transferred to the intensive care unit, Alaska state health officials said.

    The patient did not have a previous history of drug related allergies, the officials confirmed during a call with reporters. She experienced shortness of breath, elevated heart rate and a rash on her face and torso. She was treated with epinephrine and antihistamines, but her symptoms recurred multiple times and she was taken to the ICU. Officials said by Wednesday she had recovered but remains in the ICU for monitoring.

    “This is the only case in the U.S., but this doesn’t mean there won’t be more cases,” said Dr. Jay Butler, deputy director for Infectious Diseases at the CDC.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/alaska-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-reaction-446861

    #66951
    chettt
    Participant

    Yes there IS an authentic health crisis. There always is.
    It’s been called heart disease,
    obesity,
    diabeties,
    cancer,
    addiction,
    And oh yea, there’s a new one now called COVID. And we must do everything we can to “defang” this newest member of the “Let’s Kill All the Humans” club. Now we must stay focused and not let anything stop us. And, if in our zeal to conquer this deadly beast, we happen to kill more people through overdose, suicide, domestic violence and delayed medical care, well sorry but shit happens and we don’t have time to worry about that now. We just need to kill the beast. And if an extra 10 – 15 million people in the rest of the world die of starvation because of all the economic chaos and disruption of life needed to defeat this scourge, well, so be it. We don’t have time to think about them either.

    Because there IS an authentic health crisis.

    #66952
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    madamski
    What is it with the ridiculous absolutes stated bassawkwards? If not for the word “the” between “justifies” and “totalitarian”, and the words “are being”, the sentence is nonsense. Covid is a very real virus with very real consequences occurring through high contagiousness, i.e., an authentic serious health threat. Any effective response to such a thing is by nature totalitarian because things to which the vast majority are susceptible to encounter and be infected with are universal in scope.

    Hear hear! Excellent catch and analysis…
    We are just so screwed just trying to get facts re: Corona.
    Thank the gods (and Ilargi) for TAE and a very savvy commentariat…
    We’re living in the time for conspiracy theorist’s dreams come true…
    The sky is falling…(Chicken Little)

    #66953
    WES
    Participant

    In the photo ironically the only person with even a hint of a smile is the drunk lying in the gutter!

    #66954
    Geppetto
    Participant

    @Madamski wrote:

    “Recap: there IS an authentic health crisis. It’s proper defanging would have required measures totalitarian in nature (like we saw China do when this thing started). What has been done instead is awful at best and is moving rapidly toward worst.

    The more profound martial arts understand that your force against the foe works best when it doesn’t directly counter the foe’s force but, instead, deceptively accepts then diverts. This is better not necessarily because a direct punch in the nose is ineffective. It is better because it prevents you from becoming a mirror image of your foe, which is both morally and strategically asinine. Morally because an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind including thyself, and strategically because the foe knows itself better than it does you, and becoming like your foe makes you an open book to it and a mystery to yourself.”

    Not sure if these two paragraphs belong in the same essay?

    I would think that the ‘proper defanging’ of SARS-CoV-2 is not ‘deceptively accepting’. In fact the more I read the second paragraph( which is a philosophy I tend to ascribe to) the more it reminds of Walt Perry’s parody quote from Pogo; “We have met the enemy and he is us”.

    I would posit that the *idea* that we humans are some how capable of controlling and modifying nature to our own ends is hubris. I believe that security and control are illusory…….. especially at scale. SARS-CoV-2 is nature…at scale. I also believe that human nature is robust, thousands and thousands of years of robustness. Having said that I might take the vaccine if given sufficient proof of a proper trial and efficacy. I have been vaccinated against smallpox, measles and polio. I have never gotten a seasonal flu vaccine and have only endured mild flu a couple times in my 70 years. These days I’m thinking I probably have a greater *probability* of dying from skin cancer or a bad crash going fast with the kids on the mountain bike.

    Then again…… from Ani Difranco’s 32 flavors:

    ‘Cause someday you might find you’re starving
    And eating all of the words you said’

    #66955
    madamski cafone
    Participant

    @ Geppetto

    “I would posit that the *idea* that we humans are some how capable of controlling and modifying nature to our own ends is hubris. I believe that security and control are illusory……..”

    I quite agree. That doesn’t mean we aren’t able to contain pandemics. We know how. We have, in fact, done so in the past. We had our chance with this one. We screwed it up.

    ^&*

    @ Bill7 (one the countless but not innumerable Numbered People)

    As for authentic health crises: I certainly didn’t say that covid is the only current health crisis, nor would I say that we deal all that well with things like heart disease, cancer, the growing obesity of our culture, etc. What a pretty trail of shining slimy red herrings people toss into my wake!

    ^&*

    @ Mr. House:

    Why the CIA remark? Because I know many bright people who ignore, to the detriment of their well-informedness, the writings of writers like Manufactured Consent (MC) because of MC et al’s tendency to use expressions that are better suited to, say, recent presidential “debates” or the average Youtube flame war. This is a shame, because the likes of MC know much and have much wisdom to share.

    In using such language, writers like MC, despite their considerable knowledge and insight, add to the “mere conspiracy theorist” taint they otherwise work so hard to dispel. It’s like sites with titles like Consciousness of Sheep. Such titles drive many people* away from reading what would be illumating knowledge if they weren’t immediatyely put off by the shrill arrogance they perceive (rightly or not) in such titles and in the kind of antagonistically absolute verbiage I addressed. I presume entities like the CIA/NSA would a[pprove of this.
    *yes, I know some personally

    ^&*

    I will go silent for awhile. I speak my mind and, as usual, people rush to replace what I said with words of their own and then argue with me over those words of theirs. But, a hint: just because a paragraph follows another does not mean that it directly addresses the former. The opening thrust of my post under discussion was about people choosing to focus their rhetorical energy against a perceived enemy by making glaring absolute statements that sound much like the bullshit coming from their perceived enemy. That is what the martial arts paragraph addressed. Mea culpa for not more clearly segueing that intent, but some blame is also on those who rushed in to assume they understood something clearly although it was (again, my bad) ambiguously constructed. Instead, they jumped on the opportunity to project their biases and tell me how right they are/how wrong I am without clarifying that what they disagree with is what I meant.

    But then, this IS the internet. Lacking physical consequences to our words online (things like broken beer mugs in someone’s face), the standard angry hominid response to things we disagree with runs rampant and, typically, in rhetorical circles.

    Now don’t everybody fawn over me at once. I’m too old to endure such adulation. I think I’ll let you all misconstrue each others’ words without me for awhile.

    #66956
    Huskynut
    Participant

    @madamski
    “I quite agree. That doesn’t mean we aren’t able to contain pandemics. We know how. We have, in fact, done so in the past. We had our chance with this one. We screwed it up.”

    On this we disagree. World trade and travel are now in volumes very incomparable to the past.
    Yes, we can use the old methods. But only if we return to similar conditions, as NZ has eg by closing the borders. That in itself requires the consent of the governed. The impacts of reverting to older times have completely predictable consequences in the new world where supply chains stretch across the globe.
    That’s one of the key and obvious points that myself and others have been arguing from Day 1 – every one of these interventions, even if they’d been historically efficacious, were going to have profound and entirely predictable consequences on the current economic reality. As they have.
    That politicians are f*ckwits is a given, but they never ever had the latitude of response available that you’re imagining they had.

    #66957
    Geppetto
    Participant

    @madamski
    All that just makes me love you more than I already do so I’ll just go ahead and eat those words . I pretty much agree with you 99% of the time. The one percent in this particular case is that I think it might be a little early in the unfolding to say that what we (and to add, I don’t think I personally have had much input into any of this other than wearing my mask and practicing social d so the ‘we’ thing doesn’t sit well) have actually NOT done what needs to be done. I try to make it clear that ‘the’ conditional is MY condition and not yours. I just found the juxtaposition of those two ‘methods’…interesting….. and used it to make my typical segue to the meta side. No more no less. I got the intent in both.

    The importance of scale can not be understated. In 1970 when @vietnamvet was in southeast asia the world population was 3.68 billion…… in the US 205 million. Check the world pop for the Spanish flu years. My dad bought his first house in 1950 for $4500. His house payment was $45 a month! His total income was $400 per month. Six mouths to feed and all. What does that equate to now?

    It is not the same world and to think that 300,000 humans or that $1,000,000 are large numbers might be naive..? I am not talking about the value that might be reflected in those numbers just the relative size. So also.. the scaling of the time to effect of any action…such a the *right* decisions on public health policy. The future will manifest as and in the present so I personally will try and hold the mind of absolute trust. Wait and see.

    Come on gal! Don’t go now! I enjoy your take on all this stuff! …even if we are just dancing on the surface of all that is.

    #66959
    Huskynut
    Participant

    I was reflecting a little more on comments de jour, and the crux of it seems so well encapsulated by pop culture. Hollywood had been schooling everyone via the super-hero myth that we can simultaneously have both the child-like naivete to self-identify with whatever gender preference of 50-odd piques our interest on any particular day + the ability to be protected from all threats – physical, emotional or biological – by the constant oversight of “super-beings”, who remain vigilant, uncorruptable and powerful.
    Politics isn’t a trade-off where we weigh the value of our personal liberties against the risks of autocracy but the benefits of group protection. Nosiree.. we deserve it all and want it all. A material that is both pliable and plastic, but almost infinitely rigid. Achievable! Believeable! Science can do it.. instead of costs, benefits, optimisations and tradeoffs.. the true and real limits of our options.
    When the world offshored a large part of it’s production to China, a (perhaps unspoken) consequence was the need to keep borders open. When nations such as NZ built a large part of their GDP on the back of tourism, the same applied.
    Hence the push towards the Great Reset.. partly because it allows powerful capital to consolidate it’s gains, but also because within the thinking of many of those (eg Bill Gates), the world is mechanistic, and can be controlled by the right combination of power and foresight.
    Whereas for those of us on the other side of the fence, true resilience lies in diversity and autonomy. On precisely the *lack* of control which means that one stupid decision affects an entire population.
    Trying to keep *everyone* alive perpetuates the stupidity. Who knows exactly what works, amidst all the variables? This is exactly where the model of the capitalist system excels. Provide options, allow people to choose. Let the market decide. It is vastly more capable of optimising than Fauci or Tengell. Humankind either doubles down on interconnectedness or retreats into isolation. Me, I don’t care. But sitting on the fence pretending we can have the best of all worlds is killing our society. Choose. Choose cautious conservativitism (valuing preservation of the past) or optimistic progressivism (favouring change). You can;t simltaneously have both. And/if where your polity can;t choose, then separate into groups that can make a choice out of shared values.
    That’s where we are. Seems too few want to acknowledge that future or make that choice.

    #66971
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    @ Huskynut

    I thought you’re post was very well stated…but; not quite up to the blizzard of bullshit that will fly at it in attack formation; to whit, individualism, isolation, independence, will be attacked repeatably because it goes against groupthink.
    Individual action counts, if only for the person…
    Groupthink thrives on the collective; ultimately sucks it dry…
    You want a solution? Dive deep (and take plenty of oxygen); and identify the bait; and don’t go for it…
    Only come up for a breath or two; but not too long…

    #66980
    Geppetto
    Participant

    @Huskynut

    Outstanding comment and insight!

    thank you!

    #66981
    John Day
    Participant

    @Huskynut :
    We excel in smallish groups under #150.
    That’s our strength.
    Optimum might be 8-12 to get stuff done.

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