Debt Rattle May 7 2020

 

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  • #58454

    Banksy – Sounthampton General Hospital – 2020     • Coronavirus May Have Jumped To Humans As Early As October (SCMP) • Italian Scientists Cl
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle May 7 2020]

    #58455
    Polder Dweller
    Participant

    Catch Corona and Dodge the Draft!

    #58456
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Catch Corona and Dodge the Draft!

    Poverty wins everytime; the endemic poverty of the non-whites; joining the military; is a living; it is the new draft; an all “volunteer” army… of poor conscripts with no hope of a future outside of getting sucked into the military…

    #58457
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Banksy – Sounthampton General Hospital – 2020

    The Bansky is of course beautifully done, but somehow lacking in the overall relevance of today…
    Nurses are human and should stay that way…

    #58458
    zerosum
    Participant

    “The FT has a section, Coronavirus: free to read, with a few good graphs.

    They look at excess deaths as the best way to gauge COVID19.”

    I like it.

    ——–
    Are we in the second wave
    • Coronavirus May Have Jumped To Humans As Early As October (SCMP)

    “The genomic diversity of the global SARS-CoV-2 population being recapitulated in multiple countries points to extensive worldwide transmission of Covid-19, likely from extremely early on in the pandemic,” the study said.

    ——-

    #58459
    Carlos Jimenez
    Participant

    I first learned of Dr. Judi Miskovits a week ago in an inteview, now there’s this one as part of the documentary Plandemic. I think it summarizes like a Coroner’s report how the cancer killed the country’s science community or shall we call it Science Complex?
    I’m somewhat surprised she didn’t get flying lessons from a high rise building like Dr. Olsen did, or James Forrestal for that matter.

    #58460
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    I first learned of Dr. Judi Miskovits a week ago in an inteview, now there’s this one as part of the documentary Plandemic. I think it summarizes like a Coroner’s report how the cancer killed the country’s science community or shall we call it Science Complex?

    I like what you said…
    Keep it coming…

    #58461
    Carlos Jimenez
    Participant

    Spell check: Dr.Judy Mikovits and Dr. Olson Frank Olson, a bacteriologist and biological warfare specialist out of Fort Detrick.

    #58462
    Mr. House
    Participant

    “Why are we still discussing the OPCW? Why does it still exist? They’re a bunch of liars who were found out.”

    I agree 100% with that sentiment, which is why i’m having so much trouble now buying into all of this. That same story about liars in Syria doesn’t just end with the OPCW. It was also pushed by the US government and the US media. My question to you Illargi (also thank you for being the most tolerant of contrarian viewpoints of all the sites i’ve been reading the past ten years) why should i believe them now? How many times can i be lied to before my trust is fully broken? I’d say it was gone long before COVID. For 12 years i’ve been reading you and others and waiting for the financial house of cards to collapse from its own corrupt weight. Suddenly it does, i mean the fed stopped raising rates after december of 2018, they then begin to lower rates spring of 2019, balance sheet reduction also ends that year, then in September you have repo issues that were still raging beginning this year. And pow, virus. I have been following this virus since January when zerohedge began to post about it. I still don’t know anyone with it, but thats ok because everyone already has it but doesn’t know it(asymptomatic carriers)? Not only that, but nobody and i mean nobody but “the fringe” of people is questioning it? You have no skepticism of this at all? Have you had any personal experiences with it yet? Oh and by the by did you see the skyscraper in the UAE that caught fire? It burned all night and from the pictures was quite the raging inferno, yet it did not fall into its own footprint. The lies and lies and lies, but now i should believe the authorities?

    #58463
    Dr. D
    Participant

    What does this chart of all British mortality say?

    UK

    COVID 19 is a Statistical Nonsense

    Very. Comprehensive. Even more telling than the similar data-rigging by the CDC.

    NY Times lying. Again. Every Day:

    “A Northwestern University history professor called into question the accuracy of a New York Times Magazine essay that won a Pulitzer Prize.
    “The actual truth of American history isn’t the narrative that the Times cares to report,” Gainor added.”

    https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=14822

    CBS, who ran fake footage of Italian hospitals – twice! – busted for lying about Covid testing.

    But I’m sure they tell the truth about CDC and British mortality rates.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/Provisional-Death-Counts-COVID-19-Pneumonia-and-Influenza.pdf

    Column 5. No additional deaths. In fact, yearly deaths are 2% under average. Wow, that matches Britain! Could it be the media is…dare I say…lying? Shock! WMD, RussiaRussiaRussia. Nah, we always believe known liars. No one can be discredited. Not even when they print $6T for themselves while buying off the people for a mere $1,200, and killing maybe half a million.

    Well, it’s Thursday then.

    “Washington… Governor Jay Inslee has extended the lockdown into the end of May despite that fact that it peaked April 3rd, and less than 900 people died in that state. So what is going on?
    …the population of Washington State is 7.615 million. That means that less than 0.002% of the population was ever infected. You do not shut down the economy for this low infection rate. This is clearly a fraud upon the people”

    I thought this was virulent and there is a major U.S. city in Washington State. The virus seems to respect borders whenever it’s politically convenient for it. Strange virus! Almost like the data is corrupt.

    The bill requires a report on 38 institutions.”

    Rogue’s gallery of the Derp State. Cutting them off, just like drug running and human trafficking. Yes, add the OPCW, defund and arrest them.

    Found it:
    “Fauci Knew Since 2005 that the Malaria Drug Can Even Cure Coronaviruses”

    ““We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage.”

    Fauci Knew since 2005 that the Malaria Drug Can even Cure Coronaviruses & Conflicts of Interest Abound

    “’Apocalyptic’: Hospitals are losing millions treating coronavirus and the results could be dire”
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/treating-coronavirus-draining-hospital-coffers-millions-threatening-resources-n1201541

    No food, bankrupt (rural) hospitals close. Free money to the top, consolidation, centralization, and concentration of power via the most coincidentally-timed virus ever. That should be good to kill an additional 400k over time. Was 30,000 poor people a year not enough?

    Gee, I wonder why the people seem to have stopped the lockdown and are ignoring it?

    I don’t want a safe space. Stop helping before you kill two million instead of one. Leave me the — alone.

    #58464
    Mr. House
    Participant

    Oh and on another note, did you see the article in politico the other day where the NY Fed released a research paper stating that the spanish flu led to the rise of the nazis?

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/05/fed-study-1918-pandemic-nazi-party-gains-236530

    I mean really? When has anyone ever published a NY Fed paper in politico? It wasn’t the economy and inflation, it was the nazis, or maybe it was inflation and the bad economy when those were the enemies and we’re now changing our minds?

    #58466
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Snopes provided this background regarding the firing and subsequent arrest of researcher Judy MIkovits.

    In 2009, biologist Judy Mikovits, who was then the research director of the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome-focused Whittemore Peterson Institute (WPI), published a paper on what she and many others thought to be a major scientific breakthrough in the prestigious journal Science. Her team alleged to have demonstrated an association between a newly discovered retrovirus called “xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus” (XMRV) and the poorly understood condition known as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), suggesting a potential viral cause for CFS.

    The paper received substantial international coverage. However, as with so many other potentially groundbreaking studies, nobody — including many of the same researchers involved with the original study — was able to replicate its results. Numerous attempts failed to replicate the study, and the research itself came under increasing scrutiny for sloppy methods and its reliance on misleading or manufactured figures.

    On 1 July 2011, Science’s editors issued a “statement of concern” about the paper. On 14 October 2011, the authors issued a partial retraction of their paper that touched on issues with some of their figures. Finally, on 23 December 2011, the editors of Science retracted the paper in full:

    Science is fully retracting the Report “Detection of an infectious retrovirus, XMRV, in blood cells of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome”. Multiple laboratories, including those of the original authors, have failed to reliably detect xenotropic murine leukemia virus– related virus (XMRV) or other murine leukemia virus (MLV)–related viruses in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients. In addition, there is evidence of poor quality control in a number of specific experiments in the Report … Given all of these issues, Science has lost confidence in the Report and the validity of its conclusions … We are therefore editorially retracting the Report. We regret the time and resources that the scientific community has devoted to unsuccessful attempts to replicate these results.

    Three months later, the Whittemore Peterson Institute fired Judy Mikovits amid concerns over the integrity of her work and her collaboration with an outside scientist, as reported in the multidisciplinary scientific journal Nature:

    The scientist behind a study that linked chronic fatigue syndrome to a virus has lost her job and is now facing accusations that she has misrepresented data. Judy Mikovits … was fired on 29 September after she clashed with the institute’s president and co-founder, Annette Whittemore, over the work of another researcher.

    The following day, in what seems to be a separate development, a blogger posted a figure from a 2009 paper that Mikovits co-authored in Science alongside one that Mikovits used in a recent presentation. The two figures, which are used to describe different results, look identical, except for the labeling.

    A few months after that, Mikovits was arrested in southern California “on an ‘out of county warrant’ from Washoe County, Nevada, for allegedly taking lab notebooks, a computer, and other material from the Whittemore Peterson Institute in Reno, Nevada, after the WPI fired her.” The arrest came in conjunction with a lawsuit from WPI that sought a restraining order to block Mikovits’ destruction of data which they maintained belonged to the institute:

    After Mikovits was terminated on 29 September, she wrongfully removed laboratory notebooks and kept other proprietary information on her laptop and in flash drives and in a personal e-mail account. WPI, a nonprofit organization that’s based on the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno, also won a temporary restraining order that forbids Mikovits from “destroying, deleting, or altering” any of the related files or data.

    The charges were dropped, not because of the merits of the case, but due to a variety of complicating legal factors related to the family that runs the Whittemore Peterson Institute:

    On 11 June, the district attorney’s office for Washoe County filed a petition to dismiss the criminal charges against Mikovits without prejudice (which means they can file a related complaint in the future), a clerk to the Justice Court of Reno told ScienceInsider.

    Mikovits, who was briefly jailed on the charges, is still defending herself in the civil case, which has taken several bizarre twists, including a judge who had ruled against Mikovits recusing himself. The judge removed himself from the case because he received campaign donations from WPI co-founder Harvey Whittemore, who himself has been criminally charged with making illegal campaign contributions to a federal official …

    Assistant District Attorney John Helzer, who filed the dismissal, says Whittemore’s legal troubles factored into his decision. “There’s a lot going on with the federal government and different levels that wasn’t occurring when we first became involved with prosecuting this case,” says Helzer. “And we have witness issues that have arisen.”

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/scientist-vaccine-jailed/

    #58468
    kimyo99
    Participant

    i trust snopes as much as i trust the nytimes. here’s their take on remdesivir vs. hydroxychloroquine: Is a Global Conspiracy Promoting Remdesivir Over Hydroxychloroquine for Treating COVID-19?

    A sprawling conspiracy theory proves numerous individuals and organizations schemed to promote the drug Remdesivir as a COVID-19 treatment over the purportedly highly effective Hydroxychloroquine.

    snopes rates this theory as false. among the reasons? gilead did NOT contribute to hillary’s 2016 campaign…china does not own the patent to remdesevir…only a portion of fauci/niaid’s grant money was used to fund research at the wuhan lab.

    actual fact checkers wouldn’t find it necessary to serve up/knock down one straw man after another.

    they close with:

    The anti-malarial drug Hydroxychloroquine, much-touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as a potential COVID-19 treatment, does not have a proven “92% success rate” in treating patients with that disease. Rather, according to a “finding from a retrospective analysis conducted by the U.S. Veterans Health Administration,” hydroxychloroquine for treatment of patients with COVID-19, “combined with or without azithromycin, not only may not help mitigate the virus’ effect, it also may increase overall mortality.”

    (apologies if this is a dupe, the edit option seems to have deleted my first try)

    #58469
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    Okay, forget Snopes, here’s an article from 2011 with some background regarding the firing and subsequent arrest of Judy Mikovits.

    In 2010, we published a story about an amazing scientific finding that had caused enormous waves in medicine. Researchers reported finding a link between a retrovirus called XMRV and chronic fatigue syndrome, a frustrating disorder with no proven explanation and no cure. The findings were reported in a paper in one of the most prestigious journals in the world – Science.

    What grabbed our attention was what some of the scientists involved with the paper did after its publication in 2009. The lead researcher, Judy Mikovits, began making sweeping unsupported statements about the finding, including tying XMRV to autism without publishing any data to support that statement. Some CFS patients began taking potent antiretroviral drugs meant to treat HIV.

    The problem with all of this was that in science, findings don’t mean much until they are replicated. Scientists are often wrong, even when they publish in prestigious journals. And in this case, soon after the Science paper came out, independent teams were unable to replicate the findings. They could not find evidence of XMRV in the blood of CFS patients – or anyone else for that matter. Talk of contamination – a not-unheard-of problem in virology labs – arose.

    Mikovits adamantly denied contamination had anything to do with her results.

    [Trine has written about this back-and-forth on Trib Nation before, and you may have joined her for a livechat on the topic in December 2010. We covered a lot of ground in that discussion. — Eds.]

    Recently, we reported that the journal Science had launched an investigation into whether a figure in Mikovits’ 2009 paper had been manipulated. Soon after, Mikovits was fired from the Whittemore Peterson Institute for Neuro-Immune Diseases, the Reno, Nev., non-profit created by the parents of a daughter with CFS. Last week, WPI filed a civil lawsuit against Mikovits, accusing her of taking lab notebooks and a computer that belonged to WPI.

    On Nov. 18, Mikovits was arrested in Ventura, Calif., as a fugitive.

    The University of Nevada, Reno police issued an arrest warrant listing two felony charges: possession of stolen property and unlawful taking of computer data, equipment, supplies or other computer related property. Mikovits will be arraigned Tuesday afternoon in California.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-covering-the-stunning-fall-of-judy-mikovits-20111122-story.html

    #58470

    Watched the Mikovits video for a few minutes and thought: no credibility. You can’t accuse someone of willingly killing millions of people and not prove it. She doesn’t. Of course, just look at him, Fauci is a wanker and a rodent and a stooge for Big Pharma, or he would’t have had his job for so long. But that doesn’t say much about him, it merely describes the USA.

    A bit later they suggest Bill Gates wants to force-vaccinate everybody, but play footage in which he doesn’t say that. He doesn’t mention “by force”, he merely says everyone must be vaccinated, and likely means “to return to normal”. There are tons of people saying that, and they’ll all wrong, as I explained in Why Lockdowns Work. Which is good, because there is no vaccine.

    Ergo, as I told my Greek friend, even if he wanted to use force, which he doesn’t as far as I have seen, and as the footage appears to confirm, we’re all safe because there is no vaccine. So a thumbs down for Mikovits.

    Note: YouTube has apparently deleted the video.

    #58471
    Mr. House
    Participant

    “Of course, just look at him, Fauci is a wanker and a rodent and a stooge for Big Pharma, or he would’t have had his job for so long. But that doesn’t say much about him, it merely describes the USA.”

    Exactly and the same goes for everyone at the top. I’m not saying the virus isn’t real, i’m just arguing its being used as cover for economic depression. This cover will deflect blame from where it belongs, with the same people the automatic earth has been pointing out since i began reading it. None of them will be fired, none of them will lose their jobs, as Dr D loves to point out. Same people from the last crisis who didn’t fix anything calling the shots in this “crisis”.

    #58472
    Dr. D
    Participant

    Negative rates. BTC $10,000, doubled in 2 months. Gold $1,720.

    So if you have negative rates, maybe you should leave the currency?

    And if you leave the currency, doesn’t that make it not the “Reserve Currency” anymore?

    If the Reserve currency fails, inflates away, is that a default?

    #58473
    kimyo99
    Participant

    Bill Gates wants to force-vaccinate everybody

    what if what bill gates wants is not ‘vaccination by force’ but ‘free movement by government approval only’?

    ie: no one is going to hold a gun to your head while they plunge a syringe into your arm. but, do you want to ride on the train/bus? shop? go to school/work? attend a concert/ball game?

    well, then you’ll need a digital certificate certifying that you meet government criteria. imho, that’s what gates/fauci/cuomo/etc are trying to achieve.


    @ilargi
    : i’d very much like to understand your position: what is an appropriate penalty for those who dare to step outside without their e-papers? should repeat offenders be jailed?

    #58474
    ₿oogaloo
    Participant

    Dr. D, you asked us a question about that first chart, but I cannot figure out the answer. What does that first chart purport to show? A model? A projection? Source?

    #58475
    Huskynut
    Participant

    Iargi
    “Fauci is a wanker and a rodent”
    Thank you, thank you.. those words will ring with me for days, and bring a smile every single time 🙂

    Coronavirus May Have Jumped To Humans As Early As October (SCMP)
    I’m persuaded by this clip that there was no natural jumping going on – certainly not via mutation anyway. Lab engineered seems the most probale, and certainly explains the massive Chinese response immediately after sequencing it.

    New Zealand ‘Halfway Down Everest’, Plans Big Easing Of COVID Lockdown (G.)
    “Halfway down Everest” – fuck, Ardern is truly a weapons-grade emotional manipulator (studied PR, worked in Tony Blair’s office.. what could you expect, I guess..)
    NZ certainly has certainly had a fortunate outcome in deaths (shame about the economic and social costs), but the deification of Ardern is truly disgusting to witness. the more I see and hear from her, the more repulsed I become.

    Really good article today on OffGuardian today on the constitutional and legal impact and implications of governments over-reaching their legal remit in mandating Covid responses.
    There’s a whole separate and interesting thread in exploring wtf happened to the historical concern of the left for protecting freedoms and liberties, and confronting excessive authoritarianism. I’d argue the widespread insanity on the left stemming from Russiagate, TDS etc has effectively neutered almost the entire political left.
    Today’s Flynn result is the latest symptom. I’m truly glad he’s escaped that utterly mendacious action, but watch the MSM reporting unfold and I guarantee it’ll be spun and twisted into something other than the complete vindication of him that it is.

    #58476
    Mr. House
    Participant

    @boogaloo

    If you read the article he posted it shows deaths from england and wales i believe. The chart is saying the deaths this year aren’t really that off trend from other years. Interesting article.

    #58477
    zerosum
    Participant

    https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/covid-america-73400-dead-33-million-jobless-stocks-soaring

    COVID-America: 73,400 Dead; 33 Million Jobless; Stocks Soaring

    Dhuuuuuu!
    Maybe someone know how the stock market can go up and all the technical say it should be down.

    #58478
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Maybe someone know how the stock market can go up and all the technical say it should be down.

    I certainly can’t give you the technicals; but a bit of common sense should tell you all you need to know: The market is rigged, just like a roulette wheel in a casino.
    Financials across the world are flat busted; free markets are just another lie…on top of all the rest…for the last 57 years…
    When this thing finally blows up; it’s going to be a hum dinger; ya sure, you betcha…
    😉

    #58479
    VietnamVet
    Participant

    Let’s not forget the big divide in the West between the rich and the 10% lackeys and the 90%, everyone else. In no sense are the USA or UK democracies (governments by and for the people) or functional. The Coronavirus Pandemic is real; no government would purposefully lock down a city of 12 million people or allow the situation get so far out of hand that hospitals were overwhelmed in Italy, Spain, England and New York State. Over 104,000 people have died early in the USA and UK.

    Corporate media hides it but the Aristocracy’s arrogance slips out. Secretary of Health and Humans Services, Alex Azar, reportedly said in a conference call that meat packing plant employees caught the coronavirus in the community not the workplace. The Elite Corporate Managers can in no way be a fault for the closure of 52 meat packing plants in the USA by not providing PPE or a safe workplace. No. It is riff-raft’s lowlife crowded together culture that makes them sick. Their immaculate minds can’t grasp that they are actually at fault themselves for the pandemic by ignoring the threat, screwing up testing and shirking from their public health responsibilities. The owners earlier busting of Meatpacking Unions and importing immigrants to do the butchering is ignored.

    The haphazard reopening of the economy is projected to kill 130,000 Americans. If society collapses from loss of income and unrest, millions more will die. This is on the oligarchs and the 10% technocrats and politicians of both parties who through greed, ideology and ignorance enabled the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus across Europe and North America.

    #58480
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    “The chart is saying the deaths this year aren’t really that off trend from other years.”

    That chart is actually misleading, since although it’s comparing the same 20-week stretches of the six worst years in the past 25 years (including this season so far), the 2020 data only includes 4 weeks where there are any deaths from Covid-19. The Covid-19 deaths are still happening at a significant rate, so it’s too early to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

    Here’s a better indication of the situation, with the appearance of Covid-19 deaths causing the total deaths to jump above the 5-year average, climbing to about 200% of the 5-year average (in recent weeks):

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc812/fig1/line/index.html

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending24april2020

    #58481
    redshift
    Participant

    The Financial Times, on the other hand, shows a 61% increase. For both to be right, that would mean the increase comes from Scotland and Northern Ireland alone which is very unilkely.

    #58482
    Doc Robinson
    Participant

    The Financial Times graph (above) shows 61% excess deaths (during the outbreak) for this calendar year (so far), compared to the same period in recent years.

    The chart posted by Dr D shows 20 weeks of the 2019/2020 season (including only the first 4 weeks of deaths from Covid-19), compared to 20 weeks of deaths from the 5 worst flu seasons in the past 25 years.

    #58483
    ₿oogaloo
    Participant

    Mr. House, what do you think makes the article interesting? The author seems to be confusing two different issues. There is a raging debate about how to assign a cause of death on a death certificate where there are multiple contributing causes. Those who want to open the economy up want to fudge the statistics downwards. Those who support a more conservative approach are more likely to want to fudge the statistics upwards. How to decipher this? The easiest way to is to look at total deaths and compare that to the last 5 years.

    As to what that chart is, I have no idea. It is not properly labelled in the article. And why are those particular years chosen. The figures for 2020 cannot be actual because we are not even halfway into 2020. Or maybe they are. Is the author trying to manipulate this readers? Or enlighten them?

    If you want a clearer source on all cause mortality in the UK, where the charts are actually labelled so you know what you are looking at, try here, which shows a really big spike in early 2020:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/883780/Weekly_all_cause_mortality_surveillance_week_19__2020__report.pdf

    #58484
    ₿oogaloo
    Participant

    Doc Robinson, thanks for your explanation/ I posted my last response before I saw your reply. Now I get it, and it convinces me that the author of that article is a charlatan who is cherry-picking and manipulating the statistics. If he wants to say this year is no different from the previous worst five years on record, it is downright dishonest to pick full influenza seasons for comparison purposes when COVID-19 did not really get a foothold in the UK until March. Even if you want to cherry pick the worst five years, the proper comparison is to look at the months of March and April only for the selected years.

    #58485

    “Fauci is a wanker and a rodent”… yup. So we all have cooties now.
    bitter/s

    #58486

    As May rolls by, millions of teenagers will not be getting together to discuss the meaning of life and love. Middle schoolers won’t get to huddle with classmates before they get shuffled and head to high school, and high schoolers won’t get to share wisdom before they face matriculation and the end of childhood.
    These, I recall, were some of the most important conversations I ever had.

    #58488

    “Alone together” doesn’t cut it. This is a massively abusive situation. It’s not just unconstitutional, it warps the soul and devours human agency.
    The only thing worthwhile about humanity is that realm that runs from intimacy to congregation, and it happens in person: voice, touch, smell, four dimensions.
    Isolation, “social distancing”, hiding our faces, living in fear- it cannot go on. It’s the basis of modern torture.
    Some worry that people are dying- I mourn that they are dying alone.

    #58489
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    The only thing worthwhile about humanity is that realm that runs from intimacy to congregation, and it happens in person: voice, touch, smell, four dimensions.
    Isolation, “social distancing”, hiding our faces, living in fear- it cannot go on. It’s the basis of modern torture.

    There has been a concerted effort, run 24/7 for 4+ months, to strike fear, deeply, into everybody. It’s a classic control tactic; and it worked for the most part.
    Only a few countries have opted out of such Orwellian coercion; and they are being attacked as irresponsible and blamed directly for the deaths that inevitably occur regardless of which statedgy is implemented.
    My wife and I have been able to pretty much operate as usual; so far so good…
    I have a saying: Fear is a thief; don’t let it steal from you!
    That said, I also realize the jack boot thugs are operating at will in the U.S.; so, be smart and cunning in your behavior…
    Best to all…

    #58490
    Huskynut
    Participant

    I took my motorcycle for a little “mental health” spin earlier, down a small winding road ti the coast.
    I encountered a few dozen other vehicles along the way and it struck me – the road we were jointly using was narrow and twisty, with only a painted dividing line in the middle. Yet we all had a strong expectation that other vehicles would conform to the rules of the road which allowed us to pass each other quite closely at a closing speed of 100mph.
    I mean, obviously, on the ‘bike I don’t 100% trust other drivers, so I’m always on the lookout to brake quickly or take evasive action. But the level of responsible trust implicit in driving on the roads is something most of us take for granted every day. For the simple reason that humans do substantially collaborate when there’s clear rules and norms.
    Sweden certainly has problems within it’s Covid response, and we’ll only know the results of their “experiment” in perhaps 12 months time. But they did manage to preserve the layer of civility/society which relies on people trusting others to behave well in their common interest.
    Whereas almost the entirety of the West resorted rapidly to very coercive behaviour by the individual authorities. I think that says a helluva lot more than we’ve had the collective mental capacity (being concerned with the short term issues) to process yet, and there’s potential for a substantial social backlash.

    #58491
    V. Arnold
    Participant

    It just occured to me we have not had a lock-down such as the one in the U.S..
    There is a curfew from 22:00 to 04:00; but that’s it.
    Most businesses, schools, and entertainment venues are shut down. Restaurants are allowed take away but no sitdown eating.
    We can still go out and about with no problems. Maintain social distancing and wear masks when shopping or going into banks, etc.
    Nothing such as what I’ve seen on western news (mostly the U.S.) with out of control police; downright terrifying.
    Still just under 3,000 cases, 55 deaths, and single digit new, daily, cases for weeks…

    #58512
    Mr. House
    Participant

    @Boogaloo

    If you take this so seriously why are you injecting Red/Blue politics into this? I live in Western PA and so far this is a giant nothing burger here. I think Blue and Red are equally evil, most of us on this site used to be able to agree about that. Can we all agree on here that the problems from 2008 were massive, never corrected, and trying to rear their ugly head since 2008. The Federal reserve has kept the monetary pedal to the medal since 2008, and since the virus has gone to ludicrous speed? While we’re all arguing about something as we usual do, they’re robbing the treasury. Just seems to perfect.

    #58514
    Mr. House
    Participant

    What we think doesn’t matter anyways, we’ve been pissing into the wind for the past 12 years along with those above us pissing down onto us. I guess we’ll be here another 12 years lamenting the woes of the unjust world we live in, cowering in our abodes if we still have one, waiting for Jesus to return.

    #58520
    ₿oogaloo
    Participant

    @Mr. House

    I am not sure why you think I am injecting Red/Blue politics into this. The author of that article made a dishonest argument and deliberately cherry-picked statistics to create a false impression of the facts. That should be called out every single time regardless of political persuasion.

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