Thoughts on the Suicide in Greece

 

Home Forums The Automatic Earth Forum Thoughts on the Suicide in Greece

This topic contains 0 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  ashvin 7 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 105 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2366

    ashvin
    Participant

    ben post=1964 wrote: my fundamental problem with you, ash, that as far as i can tell you’re a devout poststructuralist. this will sound harsh but i believe the above excerpt to be pre-packaged, school-grade, poststructuralist tripe, and that it shouldn’t be on the front page of TAE. the deficit in empathy is a function of inhabiting a poststructuralist self-consciousness. all you are doing here is neurotically fretting over the fragments. the unified whole of it may be ineffable but it’s full of truth nonetheless. you just have to let it be.

    There you go again, trying to label people and place them in boxes without a lick of understanding about what you’re doing. So mind-numbingly foolish! Yes, I find some value in the ideas of post-structuralist philosophers, but much more so in the traditional post-modern thinkers, as well as the Marxists/post-Marxists, German idealists, logical positivists, so on and so forth.

    First, if what you view to be “post-structuralist” analysis of the Greek suicide was your problem in the first place, then why didn’t you just say so, instead of diving head first into insulting comments with no substance? Second, it seems your new problem is that I had the gall to break down and analyze a man’s suicide and, more specifically, his message, instead of just saying,

    “wow, what a tragic and sad event!”

    and leaving it at that. In your mind, that is the equivalent of me lacking empathy for the lives of other people who are suffering.

    I’m not going to even explain to you why you are ridiculously off the reservation with those sentiments. All I can say is that, if you are looking for mindless, emotion-filled commentary on the world’s events, go read Huff Post or The Daily Beast or Business Insider. Thoughtful, objective, critical and deconstructive analysis is mostly what you are going to get on the front page of TAE, and is mostly what you got on the old site too, so either deal with it or stop reading (and complaining like a little child).

    #2367

    scandia
    Participant

    Thoughts on suicide…I have ’em from time to time. I have ’em when I prepare myself psychologically for the future, the possible collapse of the world I have learned to live in. I have ’em when I think of scarcity, when I think of the needs of the young. Suicide is an option. Perhaps a viable option in our ” predicament “.
    I also like the possible of putting ” the final indignation “, death, in my own hands. I am terribly curious to see how events play out so don’t plan to check out any time soon:)

    Re the comments about Ash, I surely don’t see him as arrogant. Quite the contrary. His efforts to educate and illluminate are an act of service. I, for one, don’t want him to be like Ilargi or Stoneleigh. I am uncomfortable with the intellectual stretch he offers me and feel lucky as hell to have this TAE encounter with him.

    #2368

    ashvin
    Participant

    Reverse Engineer post=1956 wrote: I don’t generally argue for these ideas as they are not my bailiwick, but I’ll stand up for the people who do when confronted by people who will ridicule them. I’m picking a fight with you Ash because you generally stand on the other side of the Conspiracy Theory line from me and the rest of the fringe crowd out there. I’m just the Fast Gun in the bunch who gets called in when a Gunfighter is needed.

    I know… exactly what I figured you were doing after the first time we locked horns on this issue in the other thread. Although, I’d say your more like the guy with a gun who stumbles out of the saloon fully-inebriated when no one really needs him. 😉 just teasing, of course

    Basically, your argument is that no ideas about anything should ever be ridiculed, because it is unfair to do so and, who knows, those ideas may turn out to be true, seeing as how they are remotely connected to things that are true. Unless, of course, the idea is one which is highly critical of conspiratorial meta-narratives. Then, ridicule away!

    Does that about sum it up?

    #2369

    ashvin
    Participant

    TheTrivium4TW post=1963 wrote: Can you provide me with the data that you reviewed to conclude that humans have a significant direct impact on the temperature of the planet. In addition, please provide the logic you applied to the underlying data.

    I can, but I won’t. The last thing a thread that has turned into one about conspiracy theory needs is a sprinkle of heated AGW “debate” on top. I’m not going to moderate any discussion of the issue on either side, but I’m also not going to help fuel that fire. It’s my fault for bringing it up in the first place. I should have brought up abiotic oil instead, because I think that’s something everyone here would ridicule, yet it is a very prevalent theory in the meta-conspiratorial world (peak oil is just a ruse by TPTB to impose artificial scarcity on the masses, didntchya know?)

    What I will do is direct you to this comprehensive and informative thread on Chris Martenson’s site that I have been following for quite some time. It was started by a guy named Mark Cochrane, who is self-described as a “research scientist and professor with an environmental engineering degree from MIT and a doctorate in ecology from Penn State”. There is plenty of data, analysis, discussion, debate, etc. from both sides of the argument contained within this thread.

    https://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/definitive-global-climate-change-aka-global-warming-thread-general-discussion-and-questions/71?page=0#comments

    #2370

    ashvin
    Participant

    ben post=1940 wrote: sumacarol, if ash isn’t willing to engage in good faith and without arrogance then he deserves to get shit for it. I was mistreated SA last week because I was trying to stick up for Ash and keep the peace but I realize now that SA didn’t deserve that and i’m sorry. do you think he’s been an honest broker of discussion lately?

    Just saw this nonsense from you (who else?), and couldn’t let it go. I believe you are referring to a brief exchange with SA on the Teju Cole thread. This is how it went:

    SecularAnimist wrote: Good job on getting under people’s skin, Ash. Keep it up

    ben wrote: SA, get ahold of yourself.

    And, now, YOU are accusing ME of being a dishonest “broker of discussion”, arrogant and not engaging in good faith?

    There’s nothing left for me to say to people such as yourself…

    #2371

    Jack
    Member

    Always have faith in God and don’t kill yourself.

    #2375

    Jack
    Member

    Sometimes people try to put down the TAE team and I don’t like that.
    We are benefiting from TAE
    For example they were able to predict the price of gold.
    It was 1900 and now it is 1632 an ounce.

    #2376

    Golden Oxen
    Participant

    What were they saying about gold when it was 300 ??

    #2377

    Jack
    Member

    Golden Oxen
    I don’t know about that but practically everyone on the internet was saying that gold was going to go higher when it was at its peak.
    I also like their reasoning for the decline.
    Gold is going to go down in my opinion.
    We know that it is because of deleveraging.
    I will not be surprised if it goes to 300.
    Probably not but it is going down that for sure

    #2378

    Golden Oxen
    Participant

    Jack, I think it is going up because of attempts to stop the de-leveraging. I guess that’s what makes markets. I agree with you about TAE however, it is a wonderful site, very happy that I came across it; we see eye to eye on somethings.

    #2379

    Jack
    Member

    Golden Oxen
    It is like we are at a horse race.
    People are really divided on these issues.
    When I try to explain how the banking system is structured to my relatives and friends they take a fit and say that cant be right.

    As for gold the reason I think people will go down is for a very simple reason and its that people and organizations have a cash flow problem.
    There is more money going out than coming in.
    They are selling all their gold just to survive

    #2380

    Golden Oxen
    Participant

    Jack, There is no doubt a lot of gold selling by people who need some quick cash. My feeling is that the central banks of the world have run out of bullets and public confidence in them has eroded significantly. The only asset they have that still has the public’s confidence is their gold hoards. My feeling is out of desperation they will raise the price of it substantially and back their bonds and currencies with it to restore confidence. I think such a move will give the financial system a new lease on life. I realize it is very small minority view, but I do see it that way.

    #2381

    Jack
    Member

    Golden Oxen
    I think they are not going to have that choice.
    This point was already discused here
    I am not going to do a very good job at explaining this so maybe Ash can help.

    When there will be a call for the governments to pay their bills
    than they will have to sell their gold

    Japan economy for example is very shaky

    #2382

    Golden Oxen
    Participant

    Sell to whom Jack? The broke public, or another bankrupt country? Better to mobilize it, enhance it’s value, and hold on to it. Isn’t that why the have it? The asset of last resort. You will also notice that the US, Germany and Italy have the most of it. Hardly a coincidence in my opinion.

    #2383

    Jack
    Member

    Golden Oxen
    There is a lot of talk of Japan facing some kind of a financial disaster very soon.
    Maybe this year or next year.
    They will start selling the gold on the open market to whoever wants it
    to pay all their bad debt and they will have to buy US dollars to pay that debt

    Whether there is a buyer or not is not relative only that they have to sell the metal

    #2384

    Golden Oxen
    Participant

    Japan sell gold for what? Paper they have been printing since their great bust? The paper fiat is the problem, selling gold is not the solution, utilizing it is.

    #2391

    Jack
    Member

    Golden Oxen
    This discussion can on forever and honestly we cant have a winner and only time will tell.
    Even Economists and experts cant agree on how things will turn out.

    What would be the signs to look for to guess when Japan will go belly up

    #2395

    ashvin post=1973 wrote:

    Basically, your argument is that no ideas about anything should ever be ridiculed, because it is unfair to do so and, who knows, those ideas may turn out to be true, seeing as how they are remotely connected to things that are true. Unless, of course, the idea is one which is highly critical of conspiratorial meta-narratives. Then, ridicule away!

    Does that about sum it up?

    Not exactly my arguent, no.

    My argument is that if you ridicule, insult and otherwise disrespect the ideas of others, then your ideas also will be ridiculed, insulted and disrespected. It just depends on type of board you wish to run here. Have you ever visited the commentariat over at TBP? Jim Quinn insults anyone who doesn’t agree with his spin all the time. Turns the commentary into a sewer.

    While YOU may think your intellectualized, scientific approach is the Cat’s Pajamas, clearly not everybody here does, since you have been Napalmed in at least 3 threads I have followed so far since joining the fray here on TAE. I’m not even sure the majority approve of it, since many seem to be pining for the days when Stoneleigh and Ilargi ran the show. You are making yourself a target by being so dismissive of some ideas, “meta-narratives’, conspiracy theories or whatever label you care to attach to them. You are wielding some very heavy academic prose as a club which intimidates a lot of people, and besides the fact this doesn’t necessarily communicate ideas all that effectively, all the ideas contained therein aren’t necessarily valid either. What it does do is squash out discussion amongst others who aren’t quite so academically inclined, and it certainly makes people who hold some of the meta-narratives to be true or at least a good possibility to feel very unwelcome here.

    My suggestion would be to be a little more tolerant of the ideas of others, even if you think they are wacko. You also would do well to adjust the academic stylization in your prose and make it a little more accessible. However, if you choose not to do those things, then you’ll have me to deal with, and drunk or sober I hit my targets with the written word 😉 To paraphrase Tom Joad, “Wherever there’s a Moderator on the Internet beatin’ up a Conspiracy Theorist, I’ll be there.”

    On the other topic of AGW, all I can say is nice dodge out from Trit’s request that you back up your POV because you don’t want to clutter up this thread with still more tangential arguments 😉 You are the MOD here my friend, and I know how this software works. You could split the thread off and AGW discussion could be pursued there. Far as a better choice being abiotic Oil as an example of a Wacko Theory, again though I do not consider that likely I can make a good argument for that one also.

    To wrap it up here, you are the Big Cheese here, and it’s the choices you make which will determine how the commentary here goes. If you disrespect others, you will be disrespected in return. In my great book of cliches, this is stated as “What goes around, comes around.”

    RE
    https://www.doomsteaddiner.org

    #2397

    ben
    Member

    ashvin post=1975 wrote: [quote=ben post=1940]sumacarol, if ash isn’t willing to engage in good faith and without arrogance then he deserves to get shit for it. I was mistreated SA last week because I was trying to stick up for Ash and keep the peace but I realize now that SA didn’t deserve that and i’m sorry. do you think he’s been an honest broker of discussion lately?

    Just saw this nonsense from you (who else?), and couldn’t let it go. I believe you are referring to a brief exchange with SA on the Teju Cole thread. This is how it went:

    SecularAnimist wrote: Good job on getting under people’s skin, Ash. Keep it up

    ben wrote: SA, get ahold of yourself.

    And, now, YOU are accusing ME of being a dishonest “broker of discussion”, arrogant and not engaging in good faith?

    There’s nothing left for me to say to people such as yourself…

    a crime has been committed. nice work, super sleuth – way to put two and two together and share the fruits of you labor with us. while it may well be arrogant — perhaps it takes arrogance to know arrogance — dishonesty and good faith have no bearing on it.

    There you go again, trying to label people and place them in boxes without a lick of understanding about what you’re doing. So mind-numbingly foolish! Yes, I find some value in the ideas of post-structuralist philosophers, but much more so in the traditional post-modern thinkers, as well as the Marxists/post-Marxists, German idealists, logical positivists, so on and so forth.

    First, if what you view to be “post-structuralist” analysis of the Greek suicide was your problem in the first place, then why didn’t you just say so, instead of diving head first into insulting comments with no substance? Second, it seems your new problem is that I had the gall to break down and analyze a man’s suicide and, more specifically, his message, instead of just saying,

    “wow, what a tragic and sad event!”

    and leaving it at that. In your mind, that is the equivalent of me lacking empathy for the lives of other people who are suffering.

    I’m not going to even explain to you why you are ridiculously off the reservation with those sentiments. All I can say is that, if you are looking for mindless, emotion-filled commentary on the world’s events, go read Huff Post or The Daily Beast or Business Insider. Thoughtful, objective, critical and deconstructive analysis is mostly what you are going to get on the front page of TAE, and is mostly what you got on the old site too, so either deal with it or stop reading (and complaining like a little child).

    as an aside, it’s funny you should bring up huffpo, because a comment i wrote you yesterday that was lost to the ether mentioned how this joint has reminded me of huffpo on several occasions this year and needless to say each time it was unsettling.

    ‘wow what a sad and tragic event’ isn’t what i wanted and you know that. nigga don’t throw that saccharin bullshit at me.

    why didn’t i just say so in the first place, about postsructuralism? well i guess i was focusing on the symptoms instead of the disease. so perhaps you’re right, next time i’ll try not to have to reframe it. but then again, look how personally you’ve taken my ‘boxing-in’ of you. so really i can’t win.

    as for your claim of having broken down and analyzed the suicide, i think that’s a real stretch – all you had the “gall” to do was display reflexivity. nothing more.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexivity_%28social_theory%29

    you identify much more so with with the trad postmodernists, you say, than the poststructuralists? that’s a great shame. i picked poststructuralism because of foucault and also because it’s a sort of pomo-lite.

    newsflash, ash. postmodernism is dead. it’s absolutely a valid reaction to mid- and late-industrialism — i appreciate where it’s coming from certainly i do — but it’s not forward thinking. no doubt it’s a useful tool for protesting the apparatus and engaging long-disaffected gen-Xers but it has its limits because it has paradoxically also been the perfect tool of industrialism for half a century. it is the marketing arm of the machine. the machine has mashed pomo-laced nihilism into people and acclimated them to the self-consciousness of it all. hence the pervasive irony. well it’s pathetic.

    you claim to be an anarcho-syndicalist; the hallmark of anarcho-syndicalism is direct action; maybe that can help you understand what Dimitris Christoulas did.

    #2398

    Jack
    Member

    The nature of the kind of posts are diverting from the issue of the subject we are really interested in at this forum, and that is economics and business.

    I am able to read all post in detail.

    When I try to explain to my family members the facts about the banking system and they tell me that is not true it gets frustrating
    So The same might be happening here

    #2400

    Golden Oxen post=1989 wrote: Japan sell gold for what? Paper they have been printing since their great bust? The paper fiat is the problem, selling gold is not the solution, utilizing it is.

    Utilizing it? For what, making Jewelry? Coining it up and passing it out to the population so they can use it to trade for something they actually need, like Oil? What do the Japanese do when they hand over all the gold in their Treasury to the Saudis to get enough Oil to keep their Toyotas moving? The Saudis will have a nice pile of Gold, but in a few weeks the Nips will have burned up all the Oil they bought.

    Gold is just one of many asset classes here, all functioning inside a trading system which values one thing against another, generally denominated in Dollars. The money to value all of it is borrowed into existence, so when asset values begin to collapse everybody who borrowed the money faces margin calls. They have to sell assets to meet those margin calls. They also have to find buyers for the assets they want to sell that have some kind of money they can use to pay off their creditors. Even if Gold is the only asset class anybody will still value, for it to be useful they still have to find somebody who has something else to trade for it.

    Gold is just a sideshow in this really, its the OIL that is important, and that is just getting to expensive in real terms for anybody to waste anymore. Even denominated in Gold Eagles, you would quickly run out of Gold trying to buy Oil with it. The Saudis might not even want more Gold in their basement safe after a while. The Chinese might snap up any Gold on the market with their bankroll of USTs, but why would anyone take the USTs for Gold anyhow?

    Anyhow, the Banksters are trying to keep the show rolling here by issuing more credit to the TBTF, but the system is locking up regardless because Oil has become too valuable to waste anymore. Substituting Gold doesn’t resolve that problem at all. In this economy, it hasn’t any great utility, so its absolute value is questionable until another economy is developed, one which does not require Oil to function.

    RE
    https://www.doomsteaddiner.org

    #2402

    ashvin
    Participant

    RE,

    I was trying to play nice with you, but now you are just being offensive and deceitful. It was you who first accused me of “ridiculing” conspiratorial arguments, while I was actively engaging them and stating my personal and informed opinions about why they were misleading and inaccurate. I used the word “ridicule” a few times in my responses, perhaps carelessly, but obviously to mean that I am very skeptical and critical of those meta-narratives. Now you are trying to act as if I started insulting the people who brought them up, which is clearly not the case. Just take the time to scroll up this thread and you can see that.

    In fact, I have NEVER insulted or disrespected commenters on TAE before they have first done the same to me, and even then I usually do not stoop to their level. If you read the comments in these threads carefully, there are quite a few people here who have recognized that fact, understood exactly what I have been arguing and one has even chastised you and ben for being demeaning in this thread. I didn’t find your comments to be demeaning before, but now your true colors are showing.

    My style of writing is a) none of your concern and b) has served me and my readers well over the last few years. For every person who takes the time to comment and complain about it (not many), there are plenty others who comment favorably or read on in silence. I have read your articles on DD, and I find them to be very interesting, but it is most definitely not the style of writing that fits me or is best for my readers. I would appreciate it if you refrain in the future from coming here and telling me how to construct my arguments.

    I have had a very productive discussion with Triv on this thread, and he has stated in no uncertain terms that he doesn’t find my responses to be insulting, arrogant, disrespectful, or anything else you claim them to be. He doesn’t need you to defend him from me and neither does anyone else at TAE. Your hypocrisy is clearly revealed when you act like that is your holy mission, and then call me arrogant.

    While YOU may think your intellectualized, scientific approach is the Cat’s Pajamas, clearly not everybody here does, since you have been Napalmed in at least 3 threads I have followed so far since joining the fray here on TAE. I’m not even sure the majority approve of it, since many seem to be pining for the days when Stoneleigh and Ilargi ran the show.

    Of course some people miss more frequent posts by I&S, including me. It is THEIR SITE, after all. Nicole has always found it difficult to post regularly, but Roel could usually find the time. Now, they are both much too busy on the tour. That’s just life. We had quite a few trolls show up on the old site with a “divide & conquer” strategy. I hope you are not attempting to join their ranks with these remarks. You are taking a few comments and inserting your own spin on them (“napalmed”, “pining”…) to make it seem like there is some generalized revolt against me, my writing and my role on TAE. No one here is buying what you’re selling, RE.

    What it does do is squash out discussion amongst others who aren’t quite so academically inclined, and it certainly makes people who hold some of the meta-narratives to be true or at least a good possibility to feel very unwelcome here.

    If I wanted to “squash” the discussion, I could do so with the click of a few buttons, instead of responding to every last point made by you and others. Do you really think that people here are “intimidated” by my big words and therefore run off and hide, refusing to express what they would have otherwise expressed? I give the TAE readers a lot more credit than that. You, sir, simply have not been around long enough to understand how it works here. Or perhaps you have been scarred by all the other sites you were banned from, for whatever reason, and now harbor a generalized grudge. If so, you are mistaken to assume that TAE is just like any other old site in the alternative media.

    You could split the thread off and AGW discussion could be pursued there. Far as a better choice being abiotic Oil as an example of a Wacko Theory, again though I do not consider that likely I can make a good argument for that one also.

    Actually, I have no idea what you are talking about here. How does one go about splitting off the thread? If that’s possible, then I’d love to know how it works.

    If you can make a argument for abiotic oil, then go ahead and make it. We’ll make up our own minds about whether it’s “good” or not. But I have a feeling you are just trying to be difficult with me, because that’s your MO on other peoples’ sites. You want to hold up DD as a place where people can escape the intellectual oppression of the sites they are currently reading. Perhaps that’s true of DD relative to many other places, but not here. On this forum, especially, we are allowing any and all comments about whatever theories you want to put forward (or link to, in your case), but don’t expect people here to just sit back and embrace it all without a critical word or two.

    #2403

    Jack
    Member

    Reverse Engineer
    The perspective you have given us on gold and oil is valuable.
    In all forums there are moments of friction between members and most of the time the issue is resolved and I hope Ash and you will put behind any misunderstands.

    #2405

    Jack
    Member

    I had watched Damon Vrabel series of videos before but I hadnt seen this with Max Keiser

    https://csper.wordpress.com/

    #2406

    JoeP
    Member

    Jack,

    In case you haven’t noticed there have been several “moments of friction” here recently between Ash and…well, there’s El G, Ben, and RE…am I missing someone? Of course this is TAE and Ash is always right …and the people I mentioned just must be “misunderstanding” what he is saying – but he clearly understands everything they are saying.

    #2408

    ashvin post=2008 wrote:

    Actually, I have no idea what you are talking about here. How does one go about splitting off the thread? If that’s possible, then I’d love to know how it works.

    Well, I can’t be entirely sure of the database engine underpinning this forum, but it looks a lot like SMF and similar Forum software. Somewhere in the Admin Tools there should be a provision for Splitting Threads. Basically it enables the Admin to take tangential or off thread comments and drop them into a new thread which you designate with a new Title.

    If you are working with custom software that does not have such a tool, talk to your techno geek about provisioning for it. It is a very valuable tool in terms of both keeping topics on thread and also provisioning for the commentariat to take a thread into other directions.

    Far as the rest goes here, its up to the readers to decide with respect to your prose and attitude, I just expressed my opinion on these things. There is no official “Poll” going here, I’m just giving you my opinion based on commentary I have read so far in a few threads.

    As far as Abiotic Oil goes, I’ll make arguments on that one after you justify your belief in AGW. I put up my arguments on why AGW is unlikely and Climate Change is more likely the result of Geological forces far greater than that accessible through the thermodynamics of Oil combustion. Shoot it down if you want to take me on with respect to this question, but I think it is the better case than Anthropogenic causes for Climate Change.

    RE

    #2409

    Jack
    Member

    Hi People!
    I am not reading all posts in detail and for a moment I thought there was friction and now that there is no friction and everyone is in harmony than we can talk about money and politics.

    #2410

    Jack
    Member

    Damon Vrabel has removed some of his videos that were very good.
    Could it be that the bankers see him as a threat

    #2411

    Jack post=2009 wrote: Reverse Engineer
    The perspective you have given us on gold and oil is valuable.
    In all forums there are moments of friction between members and most of the time the issue is resolved and I hope Ash and you will put behind any misunderstands.

    I don’t think Ash and I are misunderstanding each other. We both understand what is going on here, its a Napalm Contest! He’s promised not to Ban me for expressing my opinion, so as long as that holds true its likely we will cross swords fairly often 🙂

    If he does eventually Ban me, no issues there, you can always find me drinking Sam Adams at the Conspiracy Table in the Diner 🙂

    RE
    https://www.doomsteaddiner.org

    #2412

    ashvin
    Participant

    ben wrote: newsflash, ash. postmodernism is dead. it’s absolutely a valid reaction to mid- and late-industrialism — i appreciate where it’s coming from certainly i do — but it’s not forward thinking. no doubt it’s a useful tool for protesting the apparatus and engaging long-disaffected gen-Xers but it has its limits because it has paradoxically also been the perfect tool of industrialism for half a century. it is the marketing arm of the machine. the machine has mashed pomo-laced nihilism into people and acclimated them to the self-consciousness of it all. hence the pervasive irony.

    Well, ben, that’s actually an interesting perspective. One that is way too absolutist and general for my tastes, but I realize it is a legitimate critique that many other philosophers have. Foucault was actually against being labeled a “post-structuralist” for very similar reasons, and I’m sure you are aware that there are many disagreements within postmodern and post-structuralist schools themselves, with some thinkers accusing others of being too nihilistic and passive about it all. I am not against direct political action, but I do not believe in action for the sake of action and I want to be realistic about its possibilities and limitations.

    Anyway, I wish you would be more clear/detailed about your issues with my posts in the future from the get go. I’m sure you understand why your first comment to me was entirely uncalled for.

    #2413

    ashvin
    Participant

    Reverse Engineer post=2014 wrote:
    Well, I can’t be entirely sure of the database engine underpinning this forum, but it looks a lot like SMF and similar Forum software. Somewhere in the Admin Tools there should be a provision for Splitting Threads. Basically it enables the Admin to take tangential or off thread comments and drop them into a new thread which you designate with a new Title.

    If you are working with custom software that does not have such a tool, talk to your techno geek about provisioning for it. It is a very valuable tool in terms of both keeping topics on thread and also provisioning for the commentariat to take a thread into other directions.

    We use Kunena. I’ve been through the Admin config, and have not seen anything like that. I’m sure there’s a module for it though, like you say. Thanks.

    As far as Abiotic Oil goes, I’ll make arguments on that one after you justify your belief in AGW. I put up my arguments on why AGW is unlikely and Climate Change is more likely the result of Geological forces far greater than that accessible through the thermodynamics of Oil combustion. Shoot it down if you want to take me on with respect to this question, but I think it is the better case than Anthropogenic causes for Climate Change.

    OK, I’ll think about it. I’m actually surprised something didn’t erupt about it on Jerry’s article discussing “tipping points”, since he devoted a section to AGW.

    #2415

    JoeP post=2012 wrote: Jack,

    In case you haven’t noticed there have been several “moments of friction” here recently between Ash and…well, there’s El G, Ben, and RE…am I missing someone? Of course this is TAE and Ash is always right …and the people I mentioned just must be “misunderstanding” what he is saying – but he clearly understands everything they are saying.

    Joe, perhaps you missed the “Why I stopped reading TAE” thread by VSA, with a comment from PG 🙂

    https://theautomaticearth.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=19&id=1943&Itemid=96

    Granpa I believe also has expressed some dissatisfaction. Ash hasn’t responded to all of these comments of course, but the criticism is definitely still there whether he will recognize it or not.

    I don’t know if there is a Polling Widget here on TAE as of yet, but I will volunteer my Polling Widget on DD for all of you TAE readers to Vote Anonymously on Ashvin’s Popularity as Big Cheese on TAE :-D. I’ll update this post as soon as I get the Poll set up 🙂 LOL.

    RE

    #2418

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    ashvin post=1974 wrote: [quote=TheTrivium4TW post=1963]Can you provide me with the data that you reviewed to conclude that humans have a significant direct impact on the temperature of the planet. In addition, please provide the logic you applied to the underlying data.

    I can, but I won’t.

    What I will do is direct you to this comprehensive and informative thread on Chris Martenson’s site that I have been following for quite some time. It was started by a guy named Mark Cochrane, who is self-described as a “research scientist and professor with an environmental engineering degree from MIT and a doctorate in ecology from Penn State”. There is plenty of data, analysis, discussion, debate, etc. from both sides of the argument contained within this thread.

    https://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/definitive-global-climate-change-aka-global-warming-thread-general-discussion-and-questions/71?page=0#comments

    Hi Ash, This will be my last post on the topic since it really doesn’t fit here. I didn’t bring it up until you mocked one side as absurd… so I asked for data that I could evaluate.

    You refuse to provide said data, but gladly provide a discussion of something nobody can have a valid opinion on unless they can produce the data.

    I must say, I’m impressed how quickly the scientific method just got tossed out the window. 😉

    I don’t care what anyone’s opinion is, right or wrong, I want to see the actual data.

    Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

    the highlights…

    “Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

    And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.”

    #2421

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    ashvin post=2008 wrote: RE,while I was actively engaging them and stating my personal and informed opinions about why they were misleading and inaccurate.

    That’s not entirely true, Ash.

    IN at least one case, you demand that we *trust* you, employing Appeal to Authority logical fallacy.

    You may or may not be the most informed person on the planet, but nobody who is aware of Appeal to Authority logical arguments will or should just “trust you.”

    Trusting authorities is exactly how we got ourselves in this mess. I could forward people to umpteen threads about why the current financial system isn’t a societal asset stripping mechanism, but what I can’t do is show the underlying data and logic of the system in way that is understandable without exposing the societal asset stripping nature of the financial system.

    Oh, and I’m absolutely sure some of the people actually believe the current system is legitimate and that they can’t be wrong. Some of those even ridicule guys like you and I that question the system… you know “paranoid conspiracy theorists” and all.

    This post isn’t about that taboo subject here, but it is about your perception not being quite up to reality. Close, but not quite there – and that’s the issue that I think RE is, rather irreverently, trying to point out.

    I do think people are being too hard on you, though. However, there is some truth to what is being said, IMHO. It’s all about baby with the bath water, but that would take some self reflection – something we all ought to do more, myself included.

    I will point out that one method the social engineers love to employ is to get people to mock another point of view without having done their Trivium homework themselves. Once you can get someone to laugh at another idea or call another group “kooks” or their ideas “hogwash,” the average person is locked into that view NO MATTER WHAT THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE TURNS OUT TO BE.

    Let me give you a concrete, real world example.

    I know a retired physician whom I greatly respect and who was at the top of his field. He taught that fluoridated water was essentially “mother’s milk” for teeth.

    I approached him with the fact the EPA scientist union opposes water fluoridation and pointed out that Big Finance Capital industry has resisted performing a randomized, double blind placebo study to show ingesting fluoride

    WHY EPA HEADQUARTERS UNION OF SCIENTISTS OPPOSES FLUORIDATION

    https://www.nteu280.org/Issues/Fluoride/NTEU280-Fluoride.htm

    When presented with this data, this retired physician retorted, “you assume I haven’t done my research.”

    I replied simply, “Good, I’d love to see your research. Email it to me.”

    I asked 5 times for the actual data that resulted in his opinion and he’s ignored every single request.

    Science, data, logic, reasonable, rational debate… have nothing to do with it any more… he ridiculed the opposition and there is no way on God’s green Earth that he’s going to admit he was duped for his entire career because he fell for the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy – hook line and sinker.

    Even if it means he promotes filtering untested for efficacy toxic waste through himself and his grandchildren.

    The social engineers “got” him right where they want him… “rather enjoying his servitude” to the system…

    I never want to claim a strong opinion and refuse to present the data that I used to reach my conclusions PRECISELY because I have no business with a strong conclusion absent the data.

    “There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”
    ~Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961

    #2422

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    ashvin post=2008 wrote: If you can make a argument for abiotic oil, then go ahead and make it. We’ll make up our own minds about whether it’s “good” or not.

    Hi Ash, isn’t it very inconsistent to avoid posting AGW (but posting a link to a discussion) and then request abiotic oil data and logic?

    Why is abiotic oil on limits but a request for AGW data off limits?

    If I’m applying the Trivium, it looks like you are trying to build a Straw Man argument by 1. Avoiding presenting the underlying AGW data (or link, just like that pretty discussion link that was so easy to put in your post), 2. Linking AGW “hogwash” to abiotic oil “hogwash”(which nobody else brought up) and 3. Diverting the discussion away from AGW (sans data) to abiotic oil and requests for abiotic oil data.

    Again, this post is about the Trivium and logical fallacy application, not so much about that topic that shan’t be discussed here…

    I see a gap in your logic here, Ash. Not that you are necessarily wrong, mind you.

    FWIW… my 3rd grade teacher would fail you AGW analysis because you refuse to show your work.

    Even if you are 100% right, she’d still fail you.

    #2423

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Jack post=2016 wrote: Damon Vrabel has removed some of his videos that were very good.
    Could it be that the bankers see him as a threat

    Jack, they are back up…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_yh4-Zi92Q

    I miss Vrabel – he’s an incredible asset.

    I’m not sure what caused him to tune out of the Resistance, for now at least, but I think a solid helping of public apathy was a strong contributing factor.

    IMHO, resistance is victory – even if nobody listens to me.

    When the this whole cesspool of corruption comes crashing down and squishes me, I want to know that I put in the effort to prevent it and, if everyone did what I did, the results would have been somewhat different.

    #2424

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Reverse Engineer post=2021 wrote: [quote=JoeP post=2012]Jack,

    In case you haven’t noticed there have been several “moments of friction” here recently between Ash and…well, there’s El G, Ben, and RE…am I missing someone? Of course this is TAE and Ash is always right …and the people I mentioned just must be “misunderstanding” what he is saying – but he clearly understands everything they are saying.

    Joe, perhaps you missed the “Why I stopped reading TAE” thread by VSA, with a comment from PG 🙂

    https://theautomaticearth.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=19&id=1943&Itemid=96

    Granpa I believe also has expressed some dissatisfaction. Ash hasn’t responded to all of these comments of course, but the criticism is definitely still there whether he will recognize it or not.

    I don’t know if there is a Polling Widget here on TAE as of yet, but I will volunteer my Polling Widget on DD for all of you TAE readers to Vote Anonymously on Ashvin’s Popularity as Big Cheese on TAE :-D. I’ll update this post as soon as I get the Poll set up 🙂 LOL.

    RE

    Hi RE,

    I’m surprised you have so little respect for I&S’ call to allow Ash to run the forum while they are gone.

    While I get that Ash’s “academic” style and prose won’t sit well with people outside of the “academia mindset,” that’s Ash.

    We value freedom – and that means we appreciate differences.

    Tyrants want everyone like themselves.

    I’ll call out Ash’ thought process when I think there is an issue, but I think personalizing the debate and attempting to collect data in order to reflect negatively on someone is a bit over the top, no?

    I doubt Ash is making a killing here and I appreciate him running the website with and for S&I…

    Ash, for all his talents and all his faults (we all have both), is on the right side of history here… he’s on the right team and I’m proud to have him in my bunker and I appreciate his efforts.

    I vote NO for any kind of poll that subverts Ash’s input here. He’s doing fine and we all can “smooth out the edges” as we resist this covert, scientific tyranny that is enveloping us all.

    I also appreciate the birdman, too…

    Where and why did The Big El G “fly the coop?”

    We really, really need to thicken the skin and all stand together. Look to “content of character” and overlook faults. Sure, point them out, but in a kind manner, not a subversive manner.

    #2427

    TheTrivium4TW post=2030 wrote:

    Hi RE,

    I’m surprised you have so little respect for I&S’ call to allow Ash to run the forum while they are gone.

    While I get that Ash’s “academic” style and prose won’t sit well with people outside of the “academia mindset,” that’s Ash.

    We value freedom – and that means we appreciate differences.

    Tyrants want everyone like themselves.

    I’ll call out Ash’ thought process when I think there is an issue, but I think personalizing the debate and attempting to collect data in order to reflect negatively on someone is a bit over the top, no?

    I doubt Ash is making a killing here and I appreciate him running the website with and for S&I…

    Ash, for all his talents and all his faults (we all have both), is on the right side of history here… he’s on the right team and I’m proud to have him in my bunker and I appreciate his efforts.

    I vote NO for any kind of poll that subverts Ash’s input here. He’s doing fine and we all can “smooth out the edges” as we resist this covert, scientific tyranny that is enveloping us all.

    I also appreciate the birdman, too…

    Where and why did The Big El G “fly the coop?”

    We really, really need to thicken the skin and all stand together. Look to “content of character” and overlook faults. Sure, point them out, but in a kind manner, not a subversive manner.

    As I said to Candace over in the other thread, Lighten up!

    I don’t disrespect S & I’s choice here, it’s hard to find anyone who can keep up the pace of writing for a blog like Ashvin has done, regardless of the style. I also agree with Ashvin on a whole heck of a lot of what he writes, but if he doesn’t grasp that he is turning off some people then he just isn’t readinng his own blog for comprehension. I am attempting in my own inimitable and as you note ‘irreverent’ manner to bring this to Ash’s attention.

    As to El G’s reasons for his disappearance, he hasn’t written them for us, but VSA wrote his issues down, and Ben continues on with his extended set of complaints here. I should just ignore all of this stuff and be greatful that S&I found a sucker who would take on the job of keeping the blog and forum operational while they are globe trotting? The stuff is going up here on the board for all to read, I am commenting on that and contributing my opinion on why I think it is occurring. The “poll” was a JOKE, its not a real poll designed to gather any worthwhile data, the choices are mostly silly. They do represent though parodies of things that are real and apparent here in what people are writing.

    On other topics, what did you thik of my data on Climate Change?

    RE

    #2434

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Reverse Engineer post=2033 wrote:
    As I said to Candace over in the other thread, Lighten up!

    On other topics, what did you thik of my data on Climate Change?RE

    I think we could all take your advice to Candace. 😉

    Did I miss a specific link? If so, would you be so kind to post again?

    TIA…

    #2435

    ben
    Member

    “There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”
    ~Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961

    the following year, as you probably know, Triv, he expanded on this idea in his The Ultimate Revolution speech at Berkeley. i posted about this at TAE last year: my favorite part is in the q&a session when a lady named lillian asks a question. up until this point the great aldous huxley has been talking about the ultimate/final revolution in the context of technological dictatorships and with his eye clearly on the soviet union. then lillian suggests something that to my ear has perhaps never crossed huxley’s mind. it starts at 4m42s:

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 105 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.