What Choice is in Greece's Best Interest?
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People who read TAE and other forums know there are elections in Greece today, and in Egypt. Yet most Americans (including my family and friends) have no clue, they have other priorities. Besides, those countries are over there and they think that what happens there has nothing to do with their lives here. Until something affects them personally.
Is it possible the elections in Greece could be rigged such that SYRIZA led by Alexis Tsipras, are prevented from winning?
“In all of the things written about Greece and the rest of southern Europe these days, and there’s an avalanche of articles, there is very little mention of the fact that Greece, Spain and Portugal were – brutal and bloody – dictatorships until less than 40 years ago. After WWII, their populations were largely left to fend for themselves for decades by the richer countries of Europe – and by the US -, until they toppled their military regimes in the mid-1970s.”
I’m no expert, but this is certainly false as regarding Greece. I expect better from y’all.
The military dictatorship lasted 7 years, you make it seem it was the whole time until the mid-1970s. Admittedly, this is a matter of interpreting what you wrote. But suppose you told someone “The US was ruled by Democrats until 1980” and this was all they had to go on, how would they interpret it?
Greece received aid as part of the Marshall Plan, and was a member of NATO. In fact, the table at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Expenditures suggests that Marshall Plan expenditure for (West) Germany was only 4 times more than for Greece even though its population (50 million) was more than 6 times Greece’s (7.5 million).
Compare with: “After WWII, their populations were largely left to fend for themselves for decades by the richer countries of Europe – and by the US -, until they toppled their military regimes in the mid-1970s.”
WIKI:
“The Civil War left Greece in ruins, and in even greater economic distress than it had been following the end of German occupation. Additionally, it divided the Greek people for ensuing decades, with both sides vilifying their opponents. Thousands languished in prison for many years, or were sent into exile on the islands of Gyaros and Makronisos. Many others sought refuge in communist countries or emigrated to Australia, Germany, the USA, UK, Canada and elsewhere.
The polarization and instability of Greek politics in the mid-1960s was a direct result of the Civil War and the deep divide between the leftist and rightist sections of Greek society. A major crisis showing this was the murder of the left-wing politician Gregoris Lambrakis in 1963 (the inspiration for the Costa Gavras political thriller, Z). The crisis of the Apostasia followed in 1965, together with the “ASPIDA affair”, which involved an alleged coup plot by a left-wing group of officers; the group’s alleged leader was Andreas Papandreou, son of George Papandreou, the leader of the Center Union political party and the country’s prime minister at the time.
On April 21, 1967, a group of rightist and anti-communist army officers executed a coup d’état and seized power from the government, using the political instability and tension of the time as a pretext. The leader of the coup, George Papadopoulos, was a member of the right-wing military organization IDEA (“Sacred Bond of Greek Officers”), and the subsequent military regime (later referred to as the Regime of the Colonels) lasted until 1974.”
Makes you wonder whom that Marshall plan money benefited, doesn’t it?
It certainly didn’t benefit the Greek communists, but neither did it benefit the German communists. Anyway, that’s beside the point.
YesMaybe post=3677 wrote: It certainly didn’t benefit the Greek communists, but neither did it benefit the German communists. Anyway, that’s beside the point.
What in the world are we even arguing about here? What is your issue with Ilargi’s characterization, that it paints the West in too negative a light??
Very little that came out of the post-WWII U.S.-centric global paradigm that benefited ANYONE but a minority group of elites, when viewing that paradigm from our vantage point in 2012. NATO, Breton Woods, Marshall Plan, all of that crap was about warding off Soviet influence/power so that the Western elites could concentrate all the wealth/power for themselves. The Cold War provided the Squid with the necessary mindset and justifications it needed to spread its tentacles all over the world. The middle class populations in some parts of the developed world may have materially benefited in the short-term for a few decades at most, but that’s about it. Everyone else has been suffering throughout the whole period, and now most of Europe is right back where it started, and no one else is really too far behind. Look at the state of the world right now, and tell me I’m wrong.
ashvin post=3678 wrote: [quote=YesMaybe post=3677]It certainly didn’t benefit the Greek communists, but neither did it benefit the German communists. Anyway, that’s beside the point.
What in the world are we even arguing about here? What is your issue with Ilargi’s characterization, that it paints the West in too negative a light??
Very little that came out of the post-WWII U.S.-centric global paradigm that benefited ANYONE but a minority group of elites, when viewing that paradigm from our vantage point in 2012. NATO, Breton Woods, Marshall Plan – all of that crap was about warding off Soviet influence/power so that the Western elites could concentrate all the wealth/power for themselves. The Cold War provided the Squid with the necessary mindset and justifications it needed to spread its tentacles all over the world. The middle class populations in some parts of the developed world may have materially benefited in the short-term for a few decades at most, but that’s about it. Everyone else has been suffering throughout the whole period, and now most of Europe is right back where it started, and no one else is too far behind. Look at the state of the world right now, and tell me I’m wrong.
I’d be the last person to argue that US influence was positive. What I’ve been saying is (a) the claim that Greece was “largely left to fend for themselves” is false (interference, even for the worse, is not the same as leaving alone), and that it’s misleading to describe Greece as having been ruled by a dictatorship until the mid-1970s since the dictatorship was only around for a small portion of the post-war period.
I’m not making claims about good or bad.
Oh, now I see what you meant, you just didn’t read well; what I said was:
“their populations were largely left to fend for themselves”
No, I read it precisely as you wrote it. Your claim is no more true of the Greek population than of the German. Anyway, I give up.
I haven’t visited TAE in a coon’s age, but Ilargi’s piece popped into my email box this morning, and I read it with some interest as the fringes of his analysis are starting to touch on the Eurozone endgame. None of the Euro technocrats are directly elected. The sight of a ballot box would have them running in panic to the nearest restroom. It is even easier for the Powers That Shouldn’t Be, whom I prefer to call the Illuminati for historical reasons, to control the appointment of national and regional leaders (Monte, Juncker, Van Rompuy, Barroso, ad vomitum) than direct elections. In most of the western world we have speciously free elections. It is vitally important that the Illuminati have total control over any possible winner. As Lenin loved to say, “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it.” If someone runs for national leader who is not in their hip pocket, then they have a problem, Houston.
In most of the western world they have other armaments in their arsenal. Let us take the candidacy of Ron Paul for example, and let us assume, for the moment, that he is not in the hip pocket of the Illuminati. (Recent events cast even more doubt on that assumption however). First they use the MSM, particularly the subliminal tube, to hammer home to the electorate that he cannot be considered a serious candidate on the grounds that he is an erratic, looney loose cannon. And America considers itself to be a nation of winners, so it is best to vote for a winner, which he ain’t.
(BTW, writing of the subliminal tube, did everyone notice that General Betrayus, newly appointed director of the CIA, announced in a recent interview with Wired Magazine, that all recent televisions have cameras in them which can transmit images of your home back to the “intelligence” agencies over the AC power lines? It appears that Fabian Socialist Eric Blair (aka George Orwell) suffered from premature anticipation with his 1984 novel. Also, that CIA and State are openly and blatantly using al Qaeda as a surrogate military arm to topple Libya and now Assad. Just think, eleven years ago they brought down three towers at the WTC and damaged the Pentagon, and now we are arming them to the teeth and transporting them into Syria. We are such a forgiving country! But these are topics for another place and a different blog where I have more freedom to write what my researches have indicated to be the truth).
If that doesn’t work, then they simply use fraud as they blatantly did in the results of the Republican Iowa caucus and Maine primary. If that doesn’t work, then they use voter fraud in the general election as the did in both of W’s elections. (Actually the Illuminati didn’t care about the outcome as both candidates in 2000 and 2004 were under their complete control. They permitted the voter fraud by the Republican arm against the Democratic arm simply because they didn’t care. You might consider it individual jockeying for power within a multinational corporation where the board of directors considers both psychopaths to be acceptable.
The point of the preceding is simply to point out that the Illuminati have control over all national and regional leaders of the western “democracies.” Once that is established we must ascertain if these Illuminati are a bunch of squabbling morons, or whether they are highly intelligent (at least on a mechanistic level), hire top strategists such as Quigley, Kissinger and Brzezinski, and have a multigenerational agenda. I propose the latter. And some of their top leaders have laid out that agenda quite openly in their arrogance. We need look no further than David Rockefeller’s Memoirs and Henry Kissinger’s published “white papers.” To summarize this agenda in the most basic terms, it involves one world government under the direction of enlightened Platonic philosopher kings such as the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds and other family dynasties going back hundreds and perhaps thousands of years. It involves the use of the United Nations as the governmental arm, use of NATO as the military arm, use of the IMF as the financial arm, and use of the multinational media corporations and the Vatican as the propaganda arm of central control of the planet. (I choose to leave out the Zionist agenda for the moment). The elimination of all significant national sovereignty. The drastic reduction of world human population back to roughly 14% of current numbers which would involve a rapid, drastic reduction of what Kissinger once infamously referred to as “useless eaters.” One need only watch the recent appearance of Sec Def Panetta before the Senate Armed Services Committee to see that this agenda has already been put in place. Panetta informed Senator Jeff Sessions this past March 7th, that the executive and the military no longer needed the approval of Congress to engage in war, but simply the approval of the UN and/or NATO. This left Sessions a bit breathless with shock and incredulity. It’s sort of like he just got handed a pink slip. Definitely worth watching this 7 minute segment for its entertainment value alone. Panetta obligingly let Sessions know that after certain international bodies made their decisions regarding military action, he would come to Congress and “inform” them in due course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edkVzWRxTf4
So jumping to the chase, why have I written the preceding in regard to Ilargi’s feature article? Well, I have become bored with watching the spectator sport through both the MSM and the vast bulk of the alternative financial media regarding the collapse of the Eurozone for the simple reason that they do not know (or chose to pretend not to know) how to keep score. It’s sort of like watching 22 steroid hyped Neanderthals running about on a piece of astroturf without a clue behind the rules and motivations. In American football, the goal is quite simple – to move the football in the direction of the opponents goal line and eventually move it past. If that fails, move it close enough to kick it between the goal posts. Regarding the Illuminati, on this level, it is almost as simple. What ever consolidates power to a supra national organization on a financial, military, or regulatory or “law making” level is progress regarding the Illuminati end game, and the converse is true, at least on a strategic as opposed to a tactical and illusory level.
Seven years ago, Naomi Klein published a book titled The Shock Doctrine:The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. She proposed that multinational corporations and despotic governments were using, as a primary tactic, catastrophic events to take control of populations. Sometimes these events were natural, as with hurricanes (at least prior to the invention of HAARP type facilities), and when natural disasters did not conveniently come down the pike in a timely fashion, then they could be secretly manufactured by the various tentacles of the Illuminati, as with 9/11, which has been a gift that just keeps on giving. So when I watch the collapse of the Eurozone, I score the various plays as I have just outlined. I assume that the Illuminati are intentionally driving the European and the world economy toward the jagged rocks in order to produce a global shocked stupor that will allow them to complete their end game of a total global neofeudalistic police state. Living in Mexico, I have not been able to view the film, The Hunger Games, but I did download it electronically and read it. That is what the end game will feel like. I propose in conclusion that the leaders and the strategists of the Illuminati are not morons, that they knew that the Euro must fail decades before it was put into effect, and that that failure would produce such an enormous state of shock and awe among the decent people of the world, that they would come running on bended knee to the Illuminati power structures and beg them to be put under total neofeudal bondage. When Tyler Durden and Co. rant on about what a freaking imbecile Uncle Ben is, I can see him lying back in his BarcaLounger and smiling in satisfaction. As I mentioned, watching a sport without knowing the scoring rules is really boring.
LG wrote: It involves the use of the United Nations as the governmental arm, use of NATO as the military arm, use of the IMF as the financial arm, and use of the multinational media corporations and the Vatican as the propaganda arm of central control of the planet.
I think the power of NATO is gradually diminishing and this is in part due to the “growth” of the SCO. Russia and China are currently members of SCO with India and Pakistan joining the party soon. That’s a lotta nukes.
Maybe this is a expected precedence of events leading to WWIII
JoeP
One cannot evaluate the capabilities of the Illuminati armed forces without knowledge of the secret space program and the advances in Tesla technology. Ben Rich was director of the Lockheed Skunkworks in Area 51, Nevada from 1975 to 1991. He died of cancer in 1995. I suspect that he retired when he was diagnosed with cancer. During a series of retirement speeches he repeatedly and publicly stated that “We are now in a position to bring ET home.” He was certainly endowed with a very wacky sense of humor for an engineer. BTW, please research for yourself everything I write.
Regarding the SCO, many savvy researchers believe that a WW III is part of the agenda. Get rid of a lot of useless eaters for sure.
TOPIC: What Choice is in Greece’s Best Interest?
That’s easy …
A parliament that is just like the USA.Promises promises but impossible to enact.
Keep the money flowing to Greece.
YesMaybe post=3681 wrote: I’d be the last person to argue that US influence was positive.
What was Winston Smith’s position, again? Ministry of Truth?
Language is very important. The [D]elites hide themselves via the manipulation of language.
In this case, “the U.S.” didn’t do anything, rather, the [D]elites who have captures the government of the U.S. in a silent coup did something. It is easy to fall into the paradigm presented to us in order to deceive even ourselves, but easy is not right – even when I do it.
Another example is when the system refers to “communists” and “capitalists.”
Nothing remotely close to either system exists at any kind of scale. So why do they use the language to confuse people? Because it benefits the [D]elite oligarchy.
“Communism” is essentially “boot on your neck” oligarch tyranny dictatorship.
“Capitalism” is a softer version of the same, except they have temporarily used more “carrot” and less “stick,” but that time is running is running short for anyone who has any clue regarding the heinous mathematics that underlie this demonic system of debt enslavement. Not to mention the “soft” tyranny is now “hardening” as evidenced by a President who now claims he can assassinate anyone he wants to without any over sight at all and a government that has, on record, detailed plans for political re-education camps.
Now, the people have a role to play, but that role is mostly one of deceived narcissist avoiding real responsibility at all costs. The people are passively guilty, but they aren’t the active evil that the [D]elites who have seized control of the American government (and every major establishment organization), embody.
We need to make these distinctions in our every day lives or else we, and those we talk to, will be hopelessly distracted from the real issues.
el gallinazo post=3687 wrote: As I mentioned, watching a sport without knowing the scoring rules is really boring.
el g, glad to see you visit again. A couple comments.
1. I hear that all the toy army men for sale are of the United Nations variety, not the U.S. military variety. I don’t know if that is true, but I do know the army man set given out at my son’s school for 5th grade graduation was of the U.N. variety.
2. Panetta has all the dirty intel on all CongressCritters since they claim the right to criminally wiretap and record everything everyone does. Surely they know all about Congress’ comings and goings…
I’d also point that Illuminati is like a conditioned “thought killer” word to the mostly uninformed general public. I understand enough of the term to know that these people are real and it makes sense, but most people will completely intellectually tune out, just like when they invoke “conspiracy theory” to mentally tune out.
That’s why I prefer to use terms like “Big Finance Capital” and “Money Power” to describe the exact same group of criminals.
Those terms haven’t been psychologically to the extent of “Illuminati.”
Then again, most people aren’t ready for the truth and will flee it with all their might.
My goal isn’t so much to convince people now, but to let them know where to look when this demonic Ponzi scheme from h*ll implodes.
* Americans have no clue about other countries’ elections. For Americans the remote is boring and inconsequential unless it is in their hand.
* Illuminati are the powers that shouldn’t be. They have done a hatchet job on Ron Paul and control all democracies. They want one world governed by them with only a billion useful eaters to make cocktails and run their bath water. Consolidating power in a supra-national organization is the way they make points. If they get close but can’t score they will kick your balls through the goal posts. Get ready for the Hunger Games.
* New TV’s have built in cameras. Big Brother is watching you watch Jeopardy. He must be really bored.
* NWO will have a governmental arm, a military arm, a financial arm and a propaganda arm, all controlled by Durga the warrior queen.
* Communism is an iron fist. Capitalims adds a velvet glove with a Nike swoosh on it. Let’s Do It.
*Toy army men are now only available in the UN variety; Most people aren’t ready to hear this but when they are I want them to know about https://www.plastic-army-men.com.
OMG or should I say OM el G!!!
Yay!
and TAE Summary in one thread!? Wow.
Now that’s quality!!!
Thank you. Who ever you are.
I keep thinking back to when I was a teenager and my father telling me of the dirty thirties. What perplexed me then was how the whole roaring twenties could have happened right before. I kept asking how could credit and debt and money be so available with so few questions. How could humans not see that the lifestyle of the 20’s had a cost?
I guess the question today is did we learn anything?
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity….
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.Ecclessiastes KJV written approx 935BC
Poetry that describes society.
TOPIC: What Choice is in Greece’s Best Interest?
It is exit from so-called EU, Which hopefully would lead to destruction of German’s imperial project called EU. As simply as that.
From history point of view, I think the article is badly written. Yet, the author use Wikipedia for reference which is further terrible mistake.
I, sometimes, use Wikipedia just for quick insight and no more than that. But this Greek Civil War is too serious thing to use Wikipedia for this purpose which is just an image of the truth when comes Anglo-Saxon involvement into Greece affair or any client state affair for that matter. That photo is quite reminder if one knows what is behind of Greco-Turkish War(s). Wikipedia is both “defactualized” and “decontextualized” no ideological framework and perspective – it is actually imperial tool of creating “history” and erasing memory. One need only to search: “Prometheus” plan, or NATO Stay Behind Armies, and he/she will get this:
https://www.athensinfoguide.com/history/t9-97-2junta.htm
Hannah Arendt (“Lying in Politics”) coined word “defactualization” and the word speak for itself, in other word it is denying or rewriting history. Interestingly she uses example of Germany and France (officially it is “liberator” country in WWII and member of SC, while they fully collaborated with Nazis) representations of their actions during World War II. British State Archive (not sure that is right name) destroyed, just recently, tons of the precious documents linked to their imperial atrocities in Africa. In not so distant future we will see that foreign Nato/KSA inspired, financed, and armed Syrian rebel will be portrayed as “civil war”. Imperial warlords have ability to “create” and denied history at will, as is the case with Yugoslavia’s war. While I am at destruction (which is what happened) of Yugoslavia, while I am watching all this sideshow with Greece I somewhat gloating over everything. They (Greeks, Spaniards, etc) thought about themselves as “civilized” and safe while in EU/NATO, yet the Greeks at al might consider themselves lucky – they are not destined the fate of Yugoslavia. They are in Westen camp of the nations but they – German ordo-liberal regime – will suck they blood on straw. That is what they have done, and still doing, in newly created client-states of ex-Yugoslavia.
Arendt in essay, “The Seeds of a Fascist International”:
“It was always a too little noted hallmark of fascist propaganda that it was not satisfied with lying but deliberately proposed to transform its lies into reality…. For such a fabrication of a lying reality no one was prepared. The essential characteristic of fascist propaganda was never its lies, for this is something more or less common to propaganda everywhere and of every time. The essential thing was that they exploited the age-old Occidental prejudice which confuses reality with truth, and made that “true” which until then could only be stated as a lie.”
This abovementioned sentences are still valid, Fascist International is live and well today, they carry different acronyms, insignias and pretexts.
TAE Summary
Should have mailed you the draft of my post first. Could have saved a lot of electrons 🙂 You are just as clever as always.
Triv
“I’d also point that Illuminati is like a conditioned “thought killer” word to the mostly uninformed general public. I understand enough of the term to know that these people are real and it makes sense, but most people will completely intellectually tune out, just like when they invoke “conspiracy theory” to mentally tune out.”
Of course you are right, but I am tired of catering to brain dead muppets. Until they break the Illuminati mind control conditioning, it really doesn’t matter anyway.
“1. I hear that all the toy army men for sale are of the United Nations variety, not the U.S. military variety. I don’t know if that is true, but I do know the army man set given out at my son’s school for 5th grade graduation was of the U.N. variety.
Lamentable as it may be, the Illuminati are concerned that some American soldiers will refuse direct orders to shoot their unarmed brothers and cousins. Their remediation for this sad possibility is to condition American youth to regard UN uniforms as domestic. Thus when we are occupied by “unsympathetic” soldiers speaking English with thick foreign accents, we might still regard them as domestic. Isn’t it wonderful how they can make their agendas known to the Matel Toy Co. and your local school board, yet leave the rest of us muppets in the dark!
el gallinazo post=3710 wrote: TAE Summary
Should have mailed you the draft of my post first. Could have saved a lot of electrons 🙂 You are just as clever as always.
Triv
“I’d also point that Illuminati is like a conditioned “thought killer” word to the mostly uninformed general public. I understand enough of the term to know that these people are real and it makes sense, but most people will completely intellectually tune out, just like when they invoke “conspiracy theory” to mentally tune out.”
Of course you are right, but I am tired of catering to brain dead muppets. Until they break the Illuminati mind control conditioning, it really doesn’t matter anyway.
“1. I hear that all the toy army men for sale are of the United Nations variety, not the U.S. military variety. I don’t know if that is true, but I do know the army man set given out at my son’s school for 5th grade graduation was of the U.N. variety.
Lamentable as it may be, the Illuminati are concerned that some American soldiers will refuse direct orders to shoot their unarmed brothers and cousins. Their remediation for this sad possibility is to condition American youth to regard UN uniforms as domestic. Thus when we are occupied by “unsympathetic” soldiers speaking English with thick foreign accents, we might still regard them as domestic. Isn’t it wonderful how they can make their agendas known to the Matel Toy Co. and your local school board, yet leave the rest of us muppets in the dark!
El G, when interviewing schools for my kid, one principle talked about “competing in the global market.” I thought about asking why she didn’t mention the fact the “global competition” is slave labor that might get their organs “donated” to some Big Finance Capital criminal at any moment… and then explain how we can compete with that as the Debt Money Ponzi Fraud was on the cusp of implosion…
Then I thought better of it. You are right – Muppets aren’t ready.
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