Mar 242019
 
 March 24, 2019  Posted by at 10:29 am Finance Tagged with: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,


Edward Hopper New York movie 1938

 

Mueller – The Name That Ended All Mainstream Media Credibility (RT)
The Accountability That Must Follow Mueller’s Report (Solomon)
Russiagate Is WMD Times A Million (Matt Taibbi)
As Tory MPs Plot May’s Downfall, Her Last Allies Battle For Her Survival (G.)
Pro-Remain MPs Draw Up Plans To Vote On Revoking Article 50 (O.)
‘One Million’ Protesters Join Historic March For Second Referendum (Ind.)
The Countries with the Most Monstrous Corporate Debt Pileups (WS)
UK Fracking Plan ‘Will Release Same CO2 As 300 Million New Cars’ (O.)
Greek Homes In Airbnb Fever (AFP)
Hunt For Bogus Asthma Cure Threatens Pangolins (O.)

 

 

I could gloat and congratulate myself for having resisted the anti-Trump Russiagate mania for 2-3 years. But I’m occupied by wondering where this will go from here. Same with Brexit: what will all this folly lead to?

Mueller – The Name That Ended All Mainstream Media Credibility (RT)

Important pundits and news networks have served up an impressive display of denials, evasions and on-air strokes after learning that Robert Mueller has ended his probe without issuing a single collusion-related indictment. The Special Counsel delivered his final report to Attorney General William Barr for review on Friday, with the Justice Department confirming that there will be no further indictments related to the probe. The news dealt a devastating blow to the sensational prophesies of journalists, analysts and entire news networks, who for nearly two years reported ad nauseam that President Donald Trump and his inner circle were just days away from being carted off to prison for conspiring with the Kremlin to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.

Some journalists and television anchors took to Twitter and the airwaves on Friday night to acknowledge that the media severely misreported Donald Trump’s alleged ties to Russia, as well as what Mueller’s probe was likely to find. “How could they let Trump off the hook?” an inconsolable Chris Matthews asked NBC reporter Ken Dilanian during a segment on MSNBC’s ‘Hardball’. Dilanian tried to comfort the MSNBC host with some of his signature punditry. “My only conclusion is that the president transmitted to Mueller that he would take the Fifth. He would never talk to him and therefore, Mueller decided it wasn’t worth the subpoena fight,” he expertly mused. Actually, there were several journalists who conjured up a reason why Mueller didn’t throw the book at Trump, even though the president is clearly a Putin puppet.

“It’s certainly possible that Trump may emerge from this better than many anticipated. However! Consensus has been that Mueller would follow DOJ rules and not indict a sitting president. I.e. it’s also possible his report could be very bad for Trump, despite ‘no more indictments,'” concluded Mark Follman, national affairs editor at Mother Jones, who presumably, and very sadly, was not being facetious. Revered news organizations were quick to artfully modify their expectations regarding Mueller’s findings. “What is collusion and why is Robert Mueller unlikely to mention it in his report on Trump and Russia?” a Newsweek headline asked following Friday’s announcement. Three months earlier, Newsweek had meticulously documented all the terrible “collusion” committed by Donald Trump and his inner circle.

The denials, evasions and bizarre hot takes are made even more poignant by the fact that just days ago, there was still serious talk about Trump’s entire family being hauled off to prison. “You can’t blame MSNBC viewers for being confused. They largely kept dissenters from their Trump/Russia spy tale off the air for 2 years. As recently as 2 weeks ago, they had @JohnBrennan strongly suggesting Mueller would indict Trump family members on collusion as his last act,” journalist Glenn Greenwald tweeted. While the Mueller report has yet to be released to the public, the lack of indictments makes it clear that whatever was found, nothing came close to the vast criminal conspiracy alleged by virtually the entire American media establishment.

“You have been lied to for 2 years by the MSM. No Russian collusion by Trump or anyone else. Who lied? Head of the CIA, NSA,FBI,DOJ, every pundit every anchor. All lies,” wrote conservative activist Chuck Woolery. Kim Dotcom was more blunt, but said it all: “Mueller – The name that ended all mainstream media credibility.”

Read more …

John Solomon start out saying Trump’s lawyers have been right in their approach to Mueller.

The Accountability That Must Follow Mueller’s Report (Solomon)

Now, Mueller’s investigations leave one major mission unfinished: meting out justice to the intelligence, congressional, FBI and DOJ officials who appear to have used a political dirty trick to falsely weave an unproven narrative of Russia collusion. Unverified political opposition research never should be treated as actionable intelligence or Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) evidence, as it was in this case. Just hours before Mueller’s report arrived, new evidence emerged of just how egregious the FBI acted in the early days of the Russia probe.

Fox News’s brilliant reporter Catherine Herridge obtained new text messages Friday showing Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe and his chief lawyer, Lisa Page, were discussing credibility issues and “bias” about a key human source whose work was to support the FISA warrant used to first spy on the Trump campaign in October 2016. Those credibility issues likely were hidden from the judges who approved the warrant of Trump campaign adviser Carter Page (no relation to Lisa Page). As I have reported, the FBI also possesses emails showing concerns with the evidence it was going to use to support the FISA warrant.

Likewise the bureau didn’t disclose to the court that: • the “Steele dossier” that was the main FISA evidence was paid for with funds from Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic Party; • Christopher Steele, the dossier’s author, had told a senior DOJ official he was desperate to defeat Trump; • most of the dossier was not verified before it was used as evidence of alleged Trump-Russia collusion; and • agents collected statements from key defendants such as Papadopoulos and Carter Page during interactions with an FBI informant that strongly suggested their innocence. Such omissions are so glaring as to constitute defrauding a federal court. And each and every participant to those omissions needs to be brought to justice.

Read more …

Prediction: the media are going to dig in.

Russiagate Is WMD Times A Million (Matt Taibbi)

Nobody wants to hear this, but news that Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller is headed home without issuing new charges is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media. As has long been rumored, the former FBI chief’s independent probe will result in multiple indictments and convictions, but no “presidency-wrecking” conspiracy charges, or anything that would meet the layman’s definition of “collusion” with Russia. With the caveat that even this news might somehow turn out to be botched, the key detail in the many stories about the end of the Mueller investigation was best expressed by the New York Times: “A senior Justice Department official said that Mr. Mueller would not recommend new indictments.”

The Times tried to soften the emotional blow for the millions of Americans trained in these years to place hopes for the overturn of the Trump presidency in Mueller. Nobody even pretended it was supposed to be a fact-finding mission, instead of an act of faith. The Special Prosecutor literally became a religious figure during the last few years, with votive candles sold in his image and Saturday Night Live cast members singing “All I Want for Christmas is You” to him featuring the rhymey line: “Mueller please come through, because the only option is a coup.” The Times story today tried to preserve Santa Mueller’s reputation, noting Trump’s Attorney General William Barr’s reaction was an “endorsement” of the fineness of Mueller’s work:

“In an apparent endorsement of an investigation that Mr. Trump has relentlessly attacked as a “witch hunt,” Mr. Barr said Justice Department officials never had to intervene to keep Mr. Mueller from taking an inappropriate or unwarranted step.” Mueller, in other words, never stepped out of the bounds of his job description. But could the same be said for the news media?

Read more …

They should all go. Call elections, call off Brexit for now. This has become a threat to the UK itself.

As Tory MPs Plot May’s Downfall, Her Last Allies Battle For Her Survival (G.)

Tory insiders described the party’s atmosphere as “end of days”. May was in her Chequers retreat on Sunday, talking tactics to colleagues. She faces resignations from both wings of her cabinet should her Brexit deal be voted down this week, as expected. One of her team said they expected Brexit to come down to a “blunt choice between no deal or a customs union [with the EU]”. Pro-Remain ministers will not tolerate any endorsement of a no-deal Brexit. But some pro-Brexit ministers have said that May could not carry on in No 10 unless she backed a no-deal Brexit. “It is being said that the only way she could stay on as prime minister is if she backed no-deal,” said a cabinet source. “That is where the party is – anything else would cause a huge division.”

While accepting that May faces a terminal loss of support, some senior ministers are also warning that toppling her now would unleash a general election and a leadership fight that would be “toxic” for the Tories. “It is much better that one person is held responsible for all this mess,” said one senior minister.“If you get shot of her this week, you can almost guarantee an election and a whole set of problems.” There is no clear plan of what would happen should May stand down. Some assume that her de facto deputy, David Lidington, would take over. However, seen as a pro-Remain minister, he would also face serious challenges from Tory MPs if he attempted to engineer a soft Brexit. One minister said: “The idea that everyone would step back and allow David Lidington to deliver a soft Brexit is absurd.”

Read more …

A national government anyone?

Pro-Remain MPs Draw Up Plans To Vote On Revoking Article 50 (O.)

Pro-Remain MPs are drawing up plans for a vote on revoking article 50 as an emergency measure to stop Britain crashing out of the EU, after an online petition to cancel Brexit became the most popular ever. By Saturday night more than 4.6 million people had signed the petition on the parliament website, which states: “A People’s Vote may not happen – so vote now”. Public discussion about halting Brexit was considered politically toxic until just days ago. But that shifted last week as the prospect of crashing out drew closer and the number of petition signatures rose dramatically. A cross-party group of parliamentarians is now examining the possibility of cancelling the Brexit process, following concerns that Theresa May could end up backing Tory MPs who favour a no-deal departure if her own withdrawal agreement is rejected again.

They are planning to table an amendment to Brexit legislation closer to the day of Britain’s scheduled departure from the EU. The European court of justice ruled late last year that Britain could unilaterally revoke article 50, although not just to buy time. Writing on theguardian.com, the Tory MP Phillip Lee said that the people had to be given an opportunity to reconsider Brexit and that one way of allowing this to happen would be to revoke article 50. “Mrs May should ensure that the UK has the time and the space to do this in a properly considered way – either by seeking a long extension of article 50, or by taking back control and revoking it altogether.”

Read more …

One time is not enough. They should be there again today, and tomorrow. Will they?

‘One Million’ Protesters Join Historic March For Second Referendum (Ind.)

An estimated 1 million people staged one of the biggest marches in British history to demand a second referendum on Brexit and for the public to have the Final Say on the gathering crisis. The streets of central London were clogged with protesters from across the country, urging politicians – faced with the country potentially crashing out of the EU in just three weeks’ time – to hand the decision back to the people. Aerial cameras captured the spectacular scenes of the vast throng winding its way to outside the Houses of Parliament to hear passionate speeches from MPs of all parties.

Perhaps the most dramatic picture was the unfurling of an enormous banner with the pre-referendum words of David Davis, the Brexit-supporting Tory MP: “If a democracy cannot change, it ceases to be a democracy.” Among the speakers were Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, who called out to Theresa May, saying: “Have a look out of the window prime minister. Open your curtains. Switch on your TV. Here are the people.” Some in the crowd cried out “Where’s Jeremy Corbyn?” – the Labour leader, who was later revealed to be campaigning for his party ahead of local elections in Lancashire. Michael Heseltine, the Conservative grandee, used his speech to express “contempt” for Brexiteers “wrapped in a Union Jack” who invoke Winston Churchill for their cause.

Read more …

Wolf Richter and an insane amount of graphs. Pretty scary.

The Countries with the Most Monstrous Corporate Debt Pileups (WS)

US corporate debt, excluding debt by banks – so “nonfinancial” corporate debt – has surged in recent years by all measures and to such an extent that it was featured prominently in the Fed’s Financial Stability Report, in terms of what might trigger the next financial crisis. The Fed is counting total nonfinancial business debts, which include the debts of businesses that are not incorporated. It found about $17 trillion in debts.

A narrower measure is nonfinancial corporate debt, which amounts to $15 trillion. This is up a breath-taking 40% from the prior peak in 2008. The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) uses this measure to compare how corporate debt stacks up in different countries. One of its measures is corporate debt denominated in local currency; and in order to determine the relative size of this debt, the BIS expresses it as a percent of nominal local-currency GDP. So Chinese debt in yuan as a percent of Chinese GDP in yuan. By this measure, the US nonfinancial corporate debt-to-GDP ratio has ballooned to the highest ever: a stunning whopping 73.9% of GDP:

The BIS also converts local-currency debt to dollars, so that the total debts can be compared from one country to another. And the US corporate debt of $15 trillion pales compared to China’s corporate debt of $19.7 trillion. But that is down from the $21.1 trillion in Q1 2018, at which point Chinese authorities got serious about deleveraging the corporate sector. The monstrous pileup of corporate debt in China happened in just 12 years:

China’s economy, while growing much faster than the US economy, is still quite a bit smaller than the US economy, when measured by GDP in US dollars. And so among the larger economies, China’s corporate-debt-to-GDP ratio is unrivaled (though there are some small economies with special tax laws that blow right past China for other reasons, and we’ll get to those in a moment). The data for China goes back only to 2006. Note the effects of China’s efforts to deleverage its corporate sector, with corporate debt-to-GDP ratio now down to 152.9%. But China is only in 7th Place by debt-to-GDP!

Read more …

But the profits!

UK Fracking Plan ‘Will Release Same CO2 As 300 Million New Cars’ (O.)

The government’s fracking proposals would release the same amount of greenhouse gas emissions as almost 300 million new cars, fatally undermining ministers’ obligation to tackle the escalating climate crisis, according to new research. Analysis by the Labour party shows that the amount of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere if the government’s plans go ahead would be the same as the lifetime emissions of 286 million cars – or 29 new coal-fired power plants. The findings come as ministers’ efforts to kickstart their fracking proposals face growing resistance, with defeat in the courts, fierce local objections and opposition from Labour and Tory councils alike.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, who was in Lancashire on Saturday to join the anti-fracking campaign in the region, said a future Labour government would ban fracking “once and for all”. “The Conservatives’ fracking plans will damage our environment and fly in the face of community opposition,” he said. “There is a clear alternative to fracking. Clean, renewable energy is the future of our economy and will create more than 400,000 jobs as part of Labour’s green industrial revolution.” Concerns about drilling flared in the run-up to Christmas when energy company Cuadrilla was forced to pause operations near Blackpool three times after drilling caused small earthquakes that breached government safety limits.

Several local authorities – including London, Manchester, Leeds, Wakefield, Hull and York – have expressed opposition to fracking. There is also opposition from many Tories. In Westminster, almost two dozen Tory MPs are reported to be against fracking and willing to “destroy the government’s majority” if it tries to weaken planning laws.

Read more …

I’m seeing it happen around me here in Athens. I’m staying in Koukaki. Very destructive.

Greek Homes In Airbnb Fever (AFP)

For Dimitra Dionysopoulou, who lives in the shadow of the Acropolis, there is no mistaking the signs of the Airbnb takeover in her neighbourhood. “Renovation noise, debris disposal bins on every street, and rolling luggage,” said the 50-year-old Athenian mother. Dionysopoulou has lived her entire life in the middle-class district of Koukaki, now in the midst of a home-sharing frenzy. In 2016, it was named Airbnb’s fifth fastest growing neighbourhood globally with an 800-percent jump in activity. Its selling point? Walking distance from one of the world’s most visited archaeological sites, as well as the state-of-the-art Acropolis museum. Hundreds of apartments in Koukaki’s ageing concrete buildings are now on offer.

Rents have doubled and entire families of tenants have been pushed out by cash-hungry owners, said Dionysopoulou. “Three families I know have already left, and we are currently trying to find a home for a fourth,” she told AFP. [..] Dionysopoulou is not alone in feeling that the Airbnb phenomenon, as in other major cities, has run amok. Greek authorities this year belatedly introduced registration and tax rules for Airbnb homeowners. According to Angelos Skiadas, head of Greece’s tenant association, the home-sharing craze has even spread to far-off Athens suburbs with no tourist interest. “Homeowners think this is a cure-all that will solve their problems for life. Many use Airbnb as a threat (to raise the rent),” he said.

Read more …

More of my friends leave every single day.

Hunt For Bogus Asthma Cure Threatens Pangolins (O.)

One of nature’s most remarkable creatures, the pangolin, is being driven to extinction as hunting and trafficking have soared in recent years. Studies have discovered that hundreds of thousands of these distinctive, scaly animals are now being killed every year to satisfy markets in Asia, making it the most trafficked and poached mammal on Earth. The pangolin is hunted for its meat – and also for its scales, which are believed to have important medicinal properties as cures for poor circulation, skin complaints and asthma. Last January, authorities in Hong Kong seized 8.3 tonnes of pangolin scales in a shipment from Nigeria bound for Vietnam.

It was one of the largest confiscation of the animal’s scales ever made and its weight suggests that around 13,800 animals died to make up the consignment. In addition, in February, Malaysian customs officers seized 1,800 boxes that contained 30 tonnes of frozen pangolins and pangolin parts. Ironically, the confiscation was made only a few days before World Pangolin Day was held on 16 February this year. “We simply do not know if pangolins can withstand this level of hunting,” said Daniel Ingram of University College London. “The problem is compounded by the fact we do not have reliable pangolin population estimates.” Ingram is lead author of a paper on pangolin trafficking that has just been published in the journal Global Ecology and Conservation.

Read more …

Home Forums Debt Rattle March 24 2019

This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Dr. D 1 month ago.

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  • #46218

    Edward Hopper New York movie 1938   • Mueller – The Name That Ended All Mainstream Media Credibility (RT) • The Accountability That Must Follow M
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle March 24 2019]

    #46219

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Kim Dotcom

    @KimDotcom
    Mueller – The name that ended all mainstream media credibility.

    No matter what you think of Donald Trump. His unexpected rise to power has educated the entire world about what’s wrong with US politics, the fake news media and the deep state.

    Indeed it does; but I fear to no avail…
    There is something very wrong with the majority of Usians.
    I used to think I knew what; apathy.
    But, it’s far worse and far deeper than that…
    I can’t put a finger on it; but it’s fatal if allowed to go to term…
    The 50,000+ opioid deaths per year are a major tell; but for the mot part ignored; another tell, portending reality…

    #46220

    Dr. D
    Participant

    So they plan to vote again the moment they think they can win and stop Brexit. Then they’ll vote right.

    This leads to a number of questions I don’t have time to detail. It’s been two years and it is – in theory only – a democracy. Why should it be illegal for them to vote again if they want to? Or vote every year? Or month. Or day. Or with new technology, every hour, minute, and second?

    Votes usually involve something that’s happening immediately, or something there is a long tide of support for. If you vote a Congressman, they’re in in 30 days, and – false hope – they manage not to have a bribery scandal or dead intern in the meantime. But what if we didn’t seat them for two years? Or ten? If nothing else, there’s a different generation of voters alive now. This is what Jefferson said with one generation using debt – and therefore making intractable decisions – on behalf of another. Like ours, where they sell their children as slaves and party hearty.

    However you can’t have a vote the day after a shooting or terrorist attack when the swing is abnormal as they do every. single. time. At the same time, you can’t keep voting like the EU no no no no no no no, until you get a ‘yes’ then stop voting.

    It all depends on honesty and good will, and to a man, they have none. So it’s hard to help them, but like the founders did here, I can suggest new voting technology to overcome their complete lack of morality and interest in executing the people’s mandate. How about voting 50-50 for a referendum, but need a 2/3s vote to overturn? With a 1-year set up time for each to campaign? Governments shouldn’t move that fast anyway. And in my view, it wouldn’t matter, since they shouldn’t do much and the people should ignore them.

    Just thoughts, as people get lost in ‘the vote’ and ‘the will’, but without honesty in men, in execution, and in near-total open documents, there is none. It’s only my side, right or wrong.

    UK Fracking Plan ‘Will Release Same CO2 As 300 Million New Cars’

    Curious about the ‘300 million cars’. It isn’t the fracking that will do it, or to that level, so it must mean the burning of that gas. So if you’re saying that we find and burn fossil fuels over decades and release CO2, then yes. And if not, then go ahead and stop finding and burning them and kill 4 billion people. See if they smile and just accept it. Or maybe Britain can sit in the dark while Africa, China, and India don’t give a crap and burn it all for you.

    “Rents have doubled and entire families of tenants have been pushed out by cash-hungry owners,”

    Disaster capitalism, as planned. But the people voted! And then were double crossed, like 100% of the time! They should have listened to Varoufakis’ crazy idea and gotten the h—k out of the EU, the Euro, and the whole western sphere. And they say Britain is crazy for wanting to leave with behavior and results like this. Go ahead: be a vagrant in your own country and don’t fight back, see if I care.

    “Hunt For Bogus Asthma Cure Threatens Pangolins (O.)”

    You know where they get the money to make that mess? Powell and Xi print it out of thin air. Without their fake demand, the world returns to a normal and perhaps tolerable level of corruption. Corruption to the level of 10% taxes and a Hamilton having an affair with a willing woman seem like a dream at this point.

    #46221

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Here in Thailand, Pangolins are open season; 24/7/365…
    Corruption, priorities, and corruption ensure their extinction…
    Cry for the Pangolins…nobody who can help cares…

    #46222

    Dr. D
    Participant

    V. I fear to tell you as you’ve already guessed, that a plurality of Americans are psychotic and insane. They have lost all contact with reality.

    And what’s the surprise since the Department of Education took over, the CIA is openly paying newspapers, and corporations are people? It’s not like they were hiding it. “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false,” said CIA Director Casey in 1981. We know Operation Mockingbird actually existed and was neck-deep even back to 1950. There was a national investigation and confirmation, but Americans are so good-natured and naive you can say to their face, provide every fact, and they won’t believe.

    According to [autobiography of Deborah] Davis, “By the early 1950s, Wisner ‘owned’ respected members of The New York Times, Newsweek, CBS and other communications vehicles.”[4] Davis claimed that after Cord Meyer joined the CIA in 1951, he became Operation Mockingbird’s “principal operative.”

    In a 1977 Rolling Stone magazine article, “The CIA and the Media,” reporter Carl Bernstein wrote that by 1953, CIA Director Allen Dulles oversaw the media network, which had major influence over 25 newspapers and wire agencies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

    And those are just a FEW routes by which to create a bubble every bit as anti-free-speech as New Zealand.

    And you expect with every textbook run, every word printed, billions spent by the Pentagon to influence movies and TV to be pro-war, pro-US, they somehow WOULDN’T be as delusional as North Korea?

    But these things have consequences. You can’t make good decisions if everything you know is false, if your very conception of reality, of military, of force, of voting, democracy, markets, people, influence, persuasion, are all entirely false. You believe gravity is suspended and physics and law don’t apply to you. Just like Venice, Spain, Holland, France, and Britain. Then you collapse like the blind, dumb idiot you are. What can I say? The American people vote every year to not be an Empire, but just a nation, to have peace, and not war, and yet we get it anyway. Don’t worry, those hillbillies in southern Indiana will be right again, voting to be ‘isolationist’ and against ‘global neighborhood’ and mind their own business and leave everyone alone. If only.

    But yes, we are at Casey’s “everything they know is false” level, those 30% who are in change and have the privilege to live in a bubble of cheating schools and cheating stocks, have the money to screw their neighbors, steal their houses and sell opioids to the ‘other’ and call them immoral, call them dumb. They deny the Mueller report they themselves authorized and prosecuted, and it doesn’t even occur to them that denying their own facts, the ones they had a second ago, is bad thinking. Nor most of the other stuff. Meanwhile everybody else can’t live in that bubble still suffers under 80% delusion of lies told to them every day of their lives by everybody they ever met. How would you not?

    But although you can avoid reality, you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. So when our ships don’t work and our planes fall out of the sky, the world laughs, we’re a has-been, and finish our descent into the third world. How did I escape this? Maybe I didn’t.

    #46223

    zerosum
    Participant

    although you can avoid reality, you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

    Reality is in N. Korea, Haiti, Cuba, Syria, the homeless in our communities. etc.

    We got a long way to go to see reality

    #46224

    Zerodollars
    Participant

    Dr D.: . . . “And those are just a FEW routes by which to create a bubble every bit as anti-free-speech as New Zealand.”

    Wrong.
    We are not “anti-FREE-speech” in NZ. We are however “anti-HATE-speech”.

    There is a big difference.

    #46225

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Wrong.
    We are not “anti-FREE-speech” in NZ. We are however “anti-HATE-speech”.

    There is a big difference.
    Zerodollars

    Sorry, I’m going to have to differ with you here.
    No actually there is not a difference at all. One either has free speech or censorship.
    Just because you do not like what you term “hatespeech”; denying one the right to state their views is censorship, pure and simple.
    We’ve been infantilied into ignorance and belief; and have lost all sense of morality.
    Cliche’ though it is; snowflake describes the reality pefectly.

    #46226

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    infantilied…should be infantilized

    #46227

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Dr D
    But although you can avoid reality, you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. So when our ships don’t work and our planes fall out of the sky, the world laughs, we’re a has-been, and finish our descent into the third world. How did I escape this? Maybe I didn’t.

    Oh sure you did. At least mentally/psychologically.
    Today’s western societies illustrate just how far people are willing to go to get these non-existent. “safe spaces”.
    The shallowness of peoples crippled thinking; the inability to critically assess any given situation, and, as you said; grasp a semblance of reality.
    Everything they think they know; everything; has been manufactired just for them.
    Good god, I’ve just described the Matrix, haven’t I…

    #46242

    Dr. D
    Participant

    Speech everybody loves doesn’t need to be protected. Therefore, we ONLY have free speech when it’s offensive.

    To whom? That’s the question, isn’t it? Who decides? Why not me? Why not Trump? Why not Macron as he shoots his people in the streets?

    Presently, ‘who decides’ is corrupt governments and corrupt billionaires working hand in hand, the definition of fascism. THEY decide what is “Free” or not. THEY decide that when they ‘sex up’ a report on Iraq that blows the billions they needed for the NIH and kill a million people, you don’t need to know. When the Skripals die or MI6 topples governments, when British Black Ops are caught shooting civilians in Yemen as happened this morning, you don’t need to know why. That’s illegal information. And if it’s illegal, it’s not ‘free’ speech. Then you vote on WMD and ties to al-Qaeda, knowing nothing. THAT’S why we suffer speech that is slightly annoying to us. THAT’S why we tolerate the other guy’s view instead of imprisoning him for 10 years for owning words, or shooting him in the street when he’s arrested for it. …Or holding him incommunicado for 8 years in an embassy without a trial. That sort of thing.

    For me, I’ll be one of those outdated guys that cling to the ideals of the Enlightenment and to the existence of western culture, such as freedom, liberty, and dissent. When there’s no dissent, no naughty speech someone doesn’t approve of, you can be sure the system is one of absolute tyranny. But it’s your nation, not mine. Feel free to imprison everyone who reports facts, everyone who tells the wrong jokes, everyone who dares defend themselves against personal, state, and corporate violence. But I’m not sure it will end well if you do. Otherwise re-join the Western Enlightenment of freedom that has given us so much, and tolerate its annoyances as well as its benefits.

    Sorry, I’m passionate about this because our country so narrowly missed succumbing to the tyranny you’re adopting, killing me and everyone I know – and only so far — that I can still hear the wind of that near miss rush by.

    “The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance.” — John Curran “vigilance” here being a word that means ‘hard work and suffering’.

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