Debt Rattle Jun 17 2014: A Crash Is A System Fixing Itself


Home Forums The Automatic Earth Forum Debt Rattle Jun 17 2014: A Crash Is A System Fixing Itself

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    Dorothea Lange No food, no work, baby died, to be sent back to OK from CA Spring 1937 Just a bunch of numbers Reuters published today. Read and weep.
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle Jun 17 2014: A Crash Is A System Fixing Itself]

    Diogenes Shrugged

    What has looked for so long like disaster ahead now appears to be light at the end of the tunnel. Of course, at the moment, that’s still the headlight on the locomotive, but after it runs over us we’ll see daylight.

    “Spitznagel: ‘I definitely agree that the only conception of the state that makes any sense is the “night watchman” variety, which exists only to enforce the rules of the game rather than trying to pick the winners and losers (whether it’s financial institutions or monoculture crops).'” But that’s always the problem, isn’t it – – just who will decide what the “rules of the game” will be?

    Such irony. They EVADED mark-to-market yesterday when things still had value, but will be FORCED by tomorrow’s crash to mark-to-zero. Good job, you short-sighted, thieving knuckleheads. Once the forest fires really get going, I’d urge you all to run to higher ground where the dead trees – – your trees, by the way – – are thickest.

    “… a crash is a system fixing itself back to health, something that has a lot of positive connotations, even if that is the only positive feature it has. Wait, there’s one other: our children will see a lot of the debts they are now being born with, disappear.” -Ilargi
    Looking at a photo of my kids, I’m feeling better already.


    If a system requires continual crashes to fix itself then it’s not much of a system is it?


    Gravity is a remedial algorithm.


    I think it’s a question of personality. Hard money types, delayed gratification types, fiscally responsible types, sustainable living types would prefer to take the pain now, solve the problems, and get on with life. Bring on the crash! Bring on hyperinflation! Bring on the jubilee! Easy money types, live for the moment types, put it on the credit card types, and drill baby drill types would prefer to pretend that the depression is only a figment of your imagination. Unfortunately these people are running the show, and they are a sizable majority.


    No big crash until 2032? 🙁

    Public v Private

    That’s far too long of a wait for me…



    Variable, in 1979 no-one had a clue how crazy things could or would get debt wise.

    Boogaloo, forget about hyperinflation. Not going to happen. Biggest money supply increase in history by a mile and a half, but consumer spending aka velocity of money is one on one dependent on borrowing.


    Raul, just to be clear, I am not predicting the hyperinflationary collapse until the last scene in Act V. I think we are still in Act IV, or maybe even still at the end of Act III (recall that it took half a year to get from the Bear Stearns collapse to the Lehman collapse, and things tend to move faster during the acute phase). Up until the last scene in Act V, I think the story will be deflation, deflation, deflation. That falling velocity is part of the reason they will need to replace credit with base money to keep everything afloat in nominal terms. As you say, we have already hyperinflated with the biggest money supply increase in history, and that will only continue until the system breaks. The tinder was already a big pile to begin with from the petrodollar, and it just keeps piling up. The only thing that is missing is the spark, the sudden collapse in confidence that turns everything moving 180 degrees in the opposite direction in a moments time.


    It gets harder to post here now…I am so very busy trying to hammer out a viable liferaft that to take any time off to do something as mundane as a post …to even take the time to log in and post is hard…I have signed up for the second year of “queen-rearing”,seminar with one of the worlds top bee people,and all my beekeeping efforts are aimed at developing a local bee… that loves oregon.”Sideliner”bee guy,organic farming,living cheap and below the radar….
    This morning was spent dropping 3 LARGE fir trees that had been a threat to the house since one had died three years back.I had some help from neighbors…but dropping trees 4′ across at the base,250 ft high is scary any way you cut it.The up side,lots and lots of dead-dry firewood,needles for the blueberry mulch,and once the ground gets a little harder,some nice logs to sell…and I and my wife will not worry about a monster tree coming down on the house the next wind storm.Downside…oh my god ..I am so tired of the sound of a chainsaw,and I am feeling every body ever had…and I have 3 more days worth of this hard-ass work ahead…ouch… Long hot shower,and sleeeep.Then git to it again….

    Bee good,or
    Bee careful



    …This picture hits real close to home…
    Note:one of the only truly terribly sad recollections my grandmother told me of her early teen years of marriage [@16 to a 28 year old] during the depression ,was that of her first child dying of starvation in a ‘soddy’ in oklahoma, where my grandfather had went to find work on a railroad job… no money…no food.
    When I first moved out on my own,I had a extra closet …which she promptly filled with food…telling me “Always have 6 months of food in your house..Always!”.
    I have tried to follow that advise.It has proven wise….snuffy

    Dr. Diablo

    Careful– in a world where everything is deception and power-grabbing, I suspect that the theoretical good of protected marine parks is a method of creating legal precedent to federally own and control the seas, or in the case of the Great Lakes (a bit suspicious as there’s no commercial fishing or pressing environmental need) to transfer power, control and de facto ownership to the Federal level. After that’s set, then we strip and sell them! Joke’s on you.

    In concept, the Federal Government can NOT own land outside of D.C. That’s because there is no National State. The U.S. is an associations of soveriegn Nation States that “Confederated” into a collective. This was codified in Supreme Court decision Pollard’s Lessee v. Hagan, 1845. …Not that anyone cares about the law, or follows it anymore.

    Why is this? Well, if the States DIDN’T own the land in their borders, we’d have a conflicting system of both State laws and competing All-Federal lands. In effect, the Federal Government would also become a state unto itself. At this late date, this seems beside the point as the Federal level has claimed to itself unlimited power of everything, over the states and everywhere within borders, territories, protectorates, and now, swaths of international waters, entirely displacing the states and their laws and powers. So look out in the oceans and lakes here.

    This is more than academic, too, for the Federal Government is claiming for itself the shifting Red River Basin, creating de facto a state for itself between Texas and Oklahoma. So what happens when the Federal Government, rather than “Managing” the National Parks and Lands (as in Bureau of Land MANAGEMENT), says to the contrary, we OWN these lands in toto? So we have a Federal State, with no government, no voters, that can do as it pleases, selling oil, water, timber, and mineral rights, with no oversight except themselves? In how many nooks in crannies is this happening where the land (or water) is controlled without representation?

    This legal precedent and arcana is far from theoretical at this point. So beware the Federal level claiming all of Florida’s waters, shifting river basins, or western lands they oversee. Even if it’s a “Preserve” for a “good cause.” They haven’t proven themselves trustworthy stewards at any point in history, and especially not in the recent political and financial crisis. After all they’ve done since, say 2001, would you trust them to do only good now? Why? No other nation, state, or corporation does.



    Always happy to see you! Your presence here never fails to make me think there is still hope for this world. Please convey Nicole’s and my warmest greetings to Mrs Queen Bee.;-) And please call back in soon.



    Very good points. I have a lot more respect for a small pacific nation banning fishing in its sphere than for Obama doing some top-down thing. And a lot more suspicion of the latter.


    You continue to assume the continued use of money and exchange in your writings and ignore/deny/forget/not acknowledge the option of ending that cultural practice, in spite of the obvious examples of how it underlies so many of our current problems and ongoing threats. It doesn’t even have to be an isolated choice, we can decide about that while the collapse—weak, strong, fast, or slow—is underway.

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