Debt Rattle June 19 2023
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June 19, 2023 at 9:37 am #137237Raúl Ilargi MeijerKeymaster
Jusepe de Ribera A philosopher holding a mirror 1630 • Ukrainian Forces May Be Temporarily Pausing Counteroffensive: ISW (RT) • Ukraine Sustain
[See the full post at: Debt Rattle June 19 2023]June 19, 2023 at 10:09 am #137238Dr. DParticipant“Ed Dowd at, The Freedom Conference. “WWIII: the Early Years.”
At least they haven’t lost their sense of humor.
Speaking of sense of humor,
Q: “How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”
A: “That’s not funny.”When you’ve become remembered primarily for shrill nagging, scolding and active hatred of fun, something’s gone wrong. (Obviously this joke is old as we’re like 100x feminism right now).
More like: Q: “How many Wokesters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”
A: “You’re under arrest.”“The US wants to get rid of Volodymyr Zelensky”
So? He was never running anything anyway. At a minimum Kolomoisky was. Really Kolomoisky was just the Capo that got this one chess piece installed.
“• Ukrainian Forces May Be Temporarily Pausing Counteroffensive: ISW (RT) “
Lot of danger as NATOs only option appears to be a nuclear first-strike. Or similar. It was always in “The Plan”, they’re just moving the Plan up a little bit. Like, shoes first, then pants.
“Russian Air Superiority”? Russia hasn’t even lifted a pinky on their air force yet. For one reason, NATO gets to learn all their tactics and equipment for free if they just march out and display.
Speaking of, Ukraine learns from Russia learning to throw mines behind them: Ukraine has drones drop – something I forget – explosives into the minefields to pre-clear them. Well NOW you’re talking! Too bad you already lost 5 years worth of Bradleys BEFORE realizing that.
““so that Russia cannot rearm and attack again.”
Uh…whut? So in your universe Russia is completely disarmed because of the war? That they didn’t lose?
“Russia’s special military operation started to defend the Donbass region and now it has virtually turned into a war with the collective West,”
And note because of Putin’s approach, all Russia now realizes that, is very serious, and is generally behind him, agreeing with the previously-far-reaching accusation that this was an “Existential threat.” He can now ask far more sacrifice of Russians. The West can now ask far less.
“• Obscure Results of Blinken’s Talks in Beijing Suggest Lack of Progress (Sp.)
See Bill Gates but not Blinken. I guess we know who’s important and who’s running things.
““Digital IDs linked with bank or mobile money accounts can improve the delivery of social protection coverage and serve to better reach eligible beneficiaries. Digital technologies may help to reduce leakage, errors and costs in the design”
We need this so muchly, I have no idea what they’re saying here. Solving a problem we don’t have and nobody wants. First creating a non-problem right out in public, THEN claiming to solve the problem we don’t have, that nobody wants.
“Former President Barack Hussein Obama has called for “digital fingerprints” to be mandatory to help law enforcement agencies target and arrest users who read and share”Wow. Hey, would that be illegal under the 1A? And 4A? And like 100 other “A”s? Besides, we’ll use proxies and distributed networks, and there is a blockchain one already. Or worse: we’ll go meat space and you’ll have nothing.
June 19, 2023 at 10:39 am #137239aspnazParticipantCould Israel be coordinating the American Jews to ensure that the Ukrainians lose in Ukraine, are they working to assist Russia and China? Why did NATO always hold back arms to ensure that Ukraine could not actually damage Russia? They had eight years to prepare and did nothing. Is this Israel changing allegiances, in the same way that Saudi changed allegiances, are they helping Russia by controlling the US government and Democrat party to benefit Russia? Israel will be toast when the USA goes down, don’t tell me that they are not aware of that and doing something about it.
They have been too quiet during this war – sure, they are thieving, but old habits die hard – so they are up to something.
Just a thought.
June 19, 2023 at 11:02 am #137240choochParticipantaspnaz,
Lots of empty space in this puzzle. Kinda odd that CelticBiker was chumming chew for quite awhile before the commentariat took the bait and then didn’t join the discussion.
June 19, 2023 at 12:43 pm #137241aspnazParticipantCelticBiker was kind of odd – one trick pony.
June 19, 2023 at 12:44 pm #137242aspnazParticipantBut being odd is what qualifies you to post on here …. look around!
June 19, 2023 at 12:47 pm #137243OroborosParticipant• Ukraine Sustains Massive Single-Day Losses – Russian MOD
To call it an ‘offensive’ is well, offensive
The Collective West® is a Lying Sack of Shit©
The ‘offensive’ was the Charge of the Tard Brigade©
War is industrial production, NOT boutique sub-par weapons systems designed for profits not performance.
The Empire of Lies® beating up on third world powers (and always cut & run losing in the last 75 years) doesn’t qualify as anything but gross incompetence and Cowardliness
Another angle of the kamikaze tank packed with 6 tons of explosives Russia ran as an experiment on the Ukronazi ‘offensive’
Drone tanks with enough explosive to mimic a tactical nuke.
Interesting idea, the future of war is drones: land, sea, air & space.
Only an industrial power like Russia can produce enough munitions to put a weapon like this into mass production.
Watch and weep Eurotardistan, you’re next.
.June 19, 2023 at 12:59 pm #137244OroborosParticipantWhen a kamikaze tanks detonated with 12,000 lbs of ultra high explosives, it was like a mega hand grenade, not just a shock-wave killing machine
June 19, 2023 at 1:03 pm #137245boscohorowitzParticipantI turned 4 years old in 1960. As a kid who grew up with television, I have this impression that there was a relationship between how close kids sat to the TV and how dull or bright they were. Seems like the slower kids got nearly nose close to the screen while most of us sat at more like a body-length distance.
Any body else remember anything like that? Or is it just Smart Kid vanity looking backward through a dull scratched 67 year old rear-view mirror?
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On das chewden: sure, Jews are up to their share of no-goodness. Lots of people/groups are. Let’s say for sake of argument that chews are the worst, that they are the singular cabal running all other cabals. That doesn’t mean that us sitting around talking how bad those chews allegedly are does any one any good, even by the venting of fear, anger, and frustration. (Some venting only fans the flames, jah?) It doesn’t do shit except promote mean-spiritedness, from what I’ve seen. It’s very difficult to distinguish these rants from mere old school bigotry. While there may actually be no bigotry involved, it LOOKS that way to many people reading this site, I’m sure. And that, in turn, makes them LESS likely to ponder singular evil cabals and such — assuming that something productive like that is part of the goal in kike-griping, which mostly works against the attempt to make people confront das chewden — assuming, again, that something productive like that is your aim.
Let’s also suppose that, for sake of argument, my utterances are as specious and hypocritical and misinformed and malignly intended as many seem to feel, that my head is cracked yadi ya. Again: exactly what are you brave warriors accomplishing with this observation?
Why not just put me in a bag of kosher chewish shake’n’bake mix, blend it all together, and fry it in contempt and condemnation?
I’ll answer my question: because it still won’t any good to eat and now you’ve just stunk up the house.
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Me, I had a pre-dawn epiphany: about all I can do positive in this life is encourage kindness and praise it when I see it. All the rest at best is mere kvetching and distracting myself from what joy may avail; at worst it foments bloodshed.
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Israeli quietude at present owes a lot, I think, to the fact that the Big Boys are brawling and it is wise that they keep their heads low.
Russia is now the Big Dog for any evil cabalist to try and infiltrate and thereby coopt.
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“Why did NATO always hold back arms to ensure that Ukraine could not actually damage Russia?”
Two considerations:
a) in 2014, Russia showed the world by its intervention in Syria, that USA no longer was in charge, no longer held a monopoly on this superpower thing.
b) Ukraine was perhaps never intended nor expected to win in the first place. Why arm a fall guy to the teeth? He might turn against you.
June 19, 2023 at 1:07 pm #137246zerosumParticipantDepopulation Actions/Motivators in the USA –
mass shoot, gun violence, political assassination, “think tank”, lying, reality, lack of common sense, opioid, exstream weather, inflation, De-dollarization, undocumented immigrants, carpetbaggers, printing money, sanctions
—————-
“misinformation, disinformation, [and] deepfakes”Obama Calls for ‘Digital Fingerprints’ So Police Can Arrest People Who Share ‘Non-Mainstream News’
———–
If you try to represent the people instead of the elite, we are going to destroy you
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War news – Boots on the ground
Russia throw mines behind Ukraine advances:
Ukraine has drones drop explosives into the minefields to pre-clear them.
———–June 19, 2023 at 1:08 pm #137247OroborosParticipantModern Young White Liberal Feminist Women In a Nutshell
Razor sharp intellect in a fully realized philosophical framework, topped with pink cherry, smooch, smooch
June 19, 2023 at 1:08 pm #137248boscohorowitzParticipantDigital bank accounts/IDs will crush themselves. Those doors swing both ways. AN other example of overreach in this Age of Max Overreach.
June 19, 2023 at 1:11 pm #137249my parents said knowParticipantWith wondering eyes we all followed the lead as we shuffled our way down the hall.
So now we’re imprisoned, but that’s what we get for not keeping our eyes on the ball.June 19, 2023 at 1:11 pm #137250boscohorowitzParticipantI think much human energy is spent trying to accept or hide from how ghastly we are. Why else (for one example) would a major world religion center on a divine scapegoat taking the blame for our horrifying sins on a planetary scale over thousands of years?
June 19, 2023 at 1:12 pm #137251June 19, 2023 at 1:19 pm #137252aspnazParticipantWhy Israel, why not the USA? … https://www.rt.com/business/578247-intel-invest-billions-israel-factory/. Looks like a bunch of people have second passports and are planning to leave the sinking ship.
June 19, 2023 at 1:42 pm #137253kultsommerParticipantBosco from yesterday:
Blacks weren’t much affected by white hippy freak-dancing. They kept on practicing cool dance moves
Exactly how they were portrayed in the gig-story that I posted. Audience got it right away and responded. I remember that impression of “Asian” featuring some dance-karate kicks was bit of stretch, but all-in-all it was a god gig and we had a good time.
A-Carpenter is missing the point of the “wide brush” approach to observation.
BTW
When one feels down vintage (preferably) boogie-dance videos are great cure.June 19, 2023 at 2:11 pm #137254OroborosParticipantJune 19, 2023 at 2:24 pm #137255RedParticipantOroboros “Modern Young White Liberal Feminist Women In a Nutshell” in the natural world brightly coloured fauna tends to be poisonous!
June 19, 2023 at 2:33 pm #137256OroborosParticipantJune 19, 2023 at 2:34 pm #137257OroborosParticipantJune 19, 2023 at 2:37 pm #137258OroborosParticipantfunny, Rumble links don’t appear as text stream when you paste them into the comment window
I can’t just paste the link
Maybe without the ‘colon’ at the beginning and the period missing from html at the end
Let’s see
https//rumble.com/v2v17f9-audiovideo-fixed-rogan-hotez-dr.-robert-malone-tpc-1258html
Another ‘tard’ feature of WordPress
June 19, 2023 at 3:30 pm #137260boscohorowitzParticipantJune 19, 2023 at 3:31 pm #137261boscohorowitzParticipantJune 19, 2023 at 3:32 pm #137262boscohorowitzParticipantThe missing colon worked. Not WordPress’s fault. Bad HTML is bad HTML.
June 19, 2023 at 3:36 pm #137263boscohorowitzParticipantDC is not pushing gay pride. It’s following the gay pride media bubble to try and be au courant., doing so way too late to make it worth the trouble. COnsidering that comix in general push this core ideal: triumphant violence is THE answer, I don’t see a p[roblem with some mutant dude slipping another mutant dude the tongue. Ho-hum, even. Purple hair is already hitting the passé mark.
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“When one feels down vintage (preferably) boogie-dance videos are great cure.”
I’m too old and stiff to do it anywhere but in my mind, but thanx for reminding me to tink happy tawts! 🙂
June 19, 2023 at 3:39 pm #137264D Benton SmithParticipantI think much human energy is spent trying to accept or hide from how ghastly we are. Why else (for one example) would a major world religion center on a divine scapegoat taking the blame for our horrifying sins on a planetary scale over thousands of years?”
Oh, I dunno, maybe because He told them to do it that way because it would work so well . . . . and right under the noses of the “church hierarchy” , let’s face it, it’s a totally BRILLIANT marketing device for ensuring that at least SOME part of the core message would both survive and be broadly disseminated by the corrupt organization hierarchy who are only interested in their own wealth and power through the wealth and power of their “church”.
Brilliant. Just BRILLIANT. One might even say, Divine.
June 19, 2023 at 3:44 pm #137265boscohorowitzParticipantJune 19, 2023 at 3:49 pm #137266Susmarie108ParticipantCaitlin Johnstone offers thoughts on “the problem”. If we all can’t/don’t agree that there is one, including the definition of what “the problem” is/who is responsible, then the exercise to do something – craft plans/solutions, is futile. Feeding more failure/defeat into the mix and reinforcing our inability to make things better.
“So much of modern political life consists of the ruling class tricking the public into trading away things the ruling class values in exchange for things the ruling class does not value. ”
“It’s a pretty well-established fact by now that free will doesn’t exist nearly to the extent that most religions, philosophies and judicial systems pretend it does. Our minds are very hackable and propaganda is very effective. If you don’t get this, you don’t understand the problem.”
“The amount of energy the western empire has poured into killing all leftist and antiwar movement is staggering, but people just think the acid wore off and the hippies turned into yuppies and the Reagan administration happened on its own. It didn’t. They had to work hard at that….
The revolution didn’t organically fizzle out, it was actively strangled to death. And what’s left in its place is this defeatist attitude where people want a healthy society but believe it can’t be attained, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We COINTELPRO ourselves now.”
More in the post linked below.
LOVE to Bosco for this:
“Me, I had a pre-dawn epiphany: about all I can do positive in this life is encourage kindness and praise it when I see it. All the rest at best is mere kvetching and distracting myself from what joy may avail…”. Sounds like a good idea/plan! Stay with it, friend. GRACE in action is beautiful – and powerful.
Our Systems Reward Dysfunction And Destruction: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix
June 19, 2023 at 3:59 pm #137267D Benton SmithParticipantIf you have the ability to think, to really persevere and THINK, then you would never do anything that is bad because to do anything bad on purpose is just so would be gob smackingly STUPID. Would you demolish your thumb with a hammer, KNOWING IN ADAVANCE how bad it would feel and the irreparable damage it would do to you? Well, that’s how stupid doing bad things is. It’s sort of why we call them “bad”, ya know?
Can it be said more plainly and simply than that?
Yes, we err. We err quite a lot, actually, but there’s one good thing about people who err, and that’s the fact that they know they have erred. They know the error was bad. They know that their error resulted in an unwanted bad effect, so they regret it, and try to fix it and do better next time. They strive in the direction of good as best they can (which is sometimes quite lacking.)
That isn’t all that great, but it sure is a big damn leap from people who do bad things, on purpose, knowing the horribleness of the result, and yet still WANTING that result.
We call them “bad guys”, which is remarkably fitting, when you come to think about it.
June 19, 2023 at 3:59 pm #137268boscohorowitzParticipantMartyrdom definitely has market/message power. I just might even believe that it is perhaps the only significantly effective way of “speaking truth to power”
Pilate: “What is truth?”
Jesus:
Hilariously, I had always remembered it as Jesus saying ‘What is truth?’ not PIlate. It sounds way too cool a thing for Pontius to say. I am going to believe that the original Pilate utterance meant something like “Is that so?”
Original:
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then?
Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.Yeah, I like my version better.
June 19, 2023 at 4:04 pm #137269Susmarie108ParticipantHow to “encourage” kindness?
BE KIND/KINDNESS with/in every thought, word, deed.
Then: Be still. KINDNESS will come to you.
Praise be the gifts that are present for the praising.
Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu
(May all beings everywhere be happy and free, and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life contribute in some way to that happiness and to that freedom for all).
June 19, 2023 at 4:12 pm #137270thomasjkenneyParticipant@Red re: “in the natural world brightly coloured fauna tends to be poisonous!”
Red next to black, friend of Jack.
Red next to yellow, kill a fellow!June 19, 2023 at 4:19 pm #137271boscohorowitzParticipant“We call them “bad guys”, which is remarkably fitting, when you come to think about it.”
I don’t call “them” anything, but when I see someone doing bad to another, I physically intervene to stop it. I don’t stand around taking cellcam shots and spreading the word on the internet that “these are bad men”.
A picture may be worth a 1000 words, but an action is worth a 1000 pictures.
I suspect that the conspiracy theory types of JC’s time didn’t much care for him telling them to stop whining about Caesar and start praying to God… even though that might well get them stoned or crucified or at least lose their right to vote.
Meanwhile, in the People’s Liberational Echo Chamber: Action… and CUT!
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We obviously won’t bring the fight to them, and that’s fine with me. I’ve won every fight when I was wronged (didn’t start it), and lost every fight that I started (whether I was “in the right”. For me pacifism is not non-violence, pacifism is finishing nasty unfinished business started by someone else.
I just get annoyed by all the boot camp barracks bitching around here as we wait for the inevitable: at some point, they will bring the fight to us, and we will discover if we are minions or villains (vassal villeins who disobey law and custom, and take the law into their own hands).
Me, I’m no messiah. If I’m going to martyr myself, it will be to try and protect those immediately around me right here right now. Which may also have been part of JC’s motivation to let Himself be crucified rather than rally his posse for a short-term but extremely Pyhrric victory.
Incidentally, on Xtian magic: Jesus on the cross asks God why he has been abandoned. But three days later, Jesus rolls that stone and is a free reanimated incarnate god thingie. It’s like no one can cross that scaryass divide except on their own.
You know, Buddha was all about the bodhisattvas, always reincarnating. Maybe they made a virtue of inevitability: maybe they weren’t able to cross that scary-ass divide most religions posit as the defining membrane between reality and beyond. Maybe, maybe, maybe Jeebus really WAS the first human entity to “conquer death” and not have to reincarnate. Like Buddha said: “The biggest mistake is you think you have time.” Or, for that matter, believing we have to live as long as possible. Maybe it really is true that only the good die young.
June 19, 2023 at 4:28 pm #137272RedParticipant@thomasjkenney:
Coral and King
Not all are poisonous! Enough though to make one cautious.June 19, 2023 at 4:36 pm #137273RedParticipant@susmarie108
Thanks for the Caitland Johnstone link.June 19, 2023 at 4:48 pm #137274RedParticipantThose of us who spend a bit too much time in front of a screen have likely noticed that we are in the middle of a marketing barrage in which the “tech” corporations are rushing out what they laughingly call “artificial intelligence” in an attempt to mop up the last few million dollars from the terminally gullible before the global economy goes the way of the Dodo. Like everything which has been developed since the first internet page was written, AI – which in reality is just unthinking predictive copyright-scraping – is presented as a world changing technology. And it isn’t just the kind of fanboys who told us that we would all be using cryptocurrency and taking rides in self-driving cars who have bought the hype.
Aided by the tech corporations themselves, there is a growing audience in the more conspiratorial-minded corners of social media, who believe that SkyNet has already been activated and that it will only be a matter of months before the robots take over and begin the inevitable cull of humanity… something that the older members of those communities have been sure was just about to happen ever since someone showed them the first Betamax video player.
But why would the tech corporations encourage this belief? Beside the obvious desire to fleece the kind of people who can’t understand why that Nigerian prince never sent them the money, the main reason seems to be to head off state regulation. As with the owners of the social media companies a few years ago, the AI tech firms want to reassure the politicians that self-regulation is better than governments passing laws.
And yet the very reluctance of the politicians to get involved fuels another version of conspiracy… the road to Herr Schwab’s kleptocratic version of fully automated luxury communism. This is the so-called forth industrial revolution, which encompasses the internet of things, AI, and the metaverse (aka web 3.0) which will usher in the nirvana of the singularity where we will own nothing and be happy. Critics – of which there is a growing number – see it more as a digital prison in which we are all controlled by Chinese-style social credit algorithms and oppressive programable central bank digital currencies.
With a few notable exceptions, what nobody – particularly in the establishment media – is pointing out is that it is bullshit. Those AI platforms that are being heavily trailed in your social media feed – by one of the most intense affiliate marketing efforts ever seen – turn out to be very poor quality. While the adverts likely had a lot of post-production editing, the version you get to try – at a cost – churns out videos that don’t lip-sync using robotic voices no better than Microsoft and Amazon are already offering at a more competitive rate.
This is not to suggest that the AI platforms can’t do anything useful. Some of the artwork people have been creating is impressive. And with some careful prompting, it is possible to produce a passable essay or product description. ChatGPT is also a more effective research assistant than Google or Yahoo! search engines alone – although, as with the internet in general, you still have to triple check everything you read. But beware, Big Tech corporations like Google and Amazon had already developed AI-detection algorithms ahead of release of the latest batch of platforms – so attempting to replace human effort with AI may result in your website being downlisted or your publishing account being deleted. And if you are a student hoping to have AI write your essays for you, bear in mind that this may well get you expelled from your university.
For the most part though, the most widespread use of the latest tech will be to make an already piss-poor consumer experience even worse, as everyone from your local pizza delivery firm to your nearest doctors’ surgery will be employing some spotty eighteen year old to upgrade their website so they can replace their human receptionist with an AI-powered bot which can do everything other than let you order a pizza or book an appointment. Either that, or someone will develop an AI version of Uber or Deliveroo in which impoverished gig workers get to pay a fee to access work which pays less than the Minimum Wage. And when the internet crashes – as it inevitably will – even the most basic interactions which used to take place human to human will be beyond us, because the analogue versions of those things will have been put out of business.
More interesting than this for the present moment though, is that the narrative itself is based upon a widely-accepted misunderstanding of technological progress which renders the current shittyness of any technology irrelevant. This is a point well made by Dan Olsen in a video essay about the much-hyped “Metaverse” titled The future is a dead mall. No matter how bad the technology currently is:
It’s just a prototype
It will improve
It is inevitable.
It is exactly the same story that the corporations have been using to sell us – to name just a few – nuclear fusion, solar roadways, hyperloops, electric haulage trucks, peak oil demand, and the green new deal. It might be crap today… but if you could just bung us another $100 billion or so, we guarantee it will be better in future. And just remember, it is inevitable… the big tech corporations, the Gates Foundation and the World Economic Forum say so. Worse still, since both establishment media journalists and politicians have been having a decades-long out of body experience, nobody with the power of decision seems capable of looking out of a window at the decaying heart of the real world.In the UK, a generation has grown up not knowing what an NHS dentist is – and a new generation looks set to put the fairy tale about seeing a doctor face-to-face alongside Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Meanwhile, our roads are falling apart –to the point that even Versailles-on-Thames became briefly interested. And a growing number of our bridges are having weight and speed limits imposed in an attempt to stop them falling down. Elsewhere, the people who actually know how to make things work – and who know that the politicians’ vision of the future can’t work – are resigned to taking the money and keeping their heads down. And so, it is only at the point at which some over-paid CEO attempts to put fantasy into practice that, for example, it turns out that the electricity grid cannot accommodate the volume of intermittent electricity generation being proposed.
In the end though, all of this is irrelevant. Because no matter how spectacular the promised tech fails, so long as we remain convinced that the techno-utopian future is inevitable, then exponential improvement is surely just weeks away. And since few of us are prepared to gaze into the abyss of a future in which the energy required to make things work becomes so expensive that nothing does anymore, I guess that we’ll just have to put up with the same old story being repeated over and over… It’s just a prototype, It will improve, It is inevitable.
June 19, 2023 at 4:51 pm #137275D Benton SmithParticipantBeing human comes at a high price. The price is that to be human requires being stupid. It’s part of the contract. It has been alleged that it’s possible to cheat the system by eschewing the human brain and looking behind the curtain to easily acquire sufficient knowledge, wisdom and capacity for anything. But if it were possible to so then at that point one would no longer be “just human” anymore. So it is still the case that being “just” human [i.e. brain allowed, God and telepathy not allowed) comes at the price of being a dumbbell.
But don’t worry. The solution is a no brainer (pun intended). It is to stop limiting yourself to the highly restricted and obstructed input/ouput capabilities of that human/body/persona that you’re running, which you have been cleverly misled to believe is you. We win this thing on the spiritual side, by using what we got: AWARENESS, which will lead immediately to capability and action. But first, awareness. Follow your own best estimates to become aware of as much as you can of what you think you should be aware of, then share the results with others, and just keep on doing that until you know it is time for capable action. We’ll all know when that is, and it sure feels like it’s not that far away.
Seems like that’s what we’ve been doing, and that it’s working. It’s going to go a LOT faster before it slows down, and we’re going to be required to change a lot of things in our “world view” just to keep up with an abbreviated report of the events as they unfold. “Unfold”, hah! More like thermonuclear explosion.
June 19, 2023 at 4:51 pm #137276boscohorowitzParticipantIncidentally, we all know that one catches more flies with honey than vinegar, right?
A similar phenomenon is this: when a person (for example, moi) owns himself entirely as I do, not requiring validation from others to maintain his personal beliefs and states, insulting criticism soon follows. Almost always. Even or especially among alt-types, I don’t step out of line in the approved manner.
But that just makes a fellow like me stand even taller.
It is possible to disagree without insisting the other is wrong. It is, in fact, possible to agree with oneself, believe what one believes, without requiring those who believe otherwise to be therefore wrong. It’s called ‘science’, i.e. ‘to the best of my knowledge and understanding’.
Getting people to agree with you does not require proving the other guy wrong. (Ask any successful manipulating psychopath.) Getting other people to agree with you doesn’t prove the other guy wrong either. Getting people to agree with you is just getting people to agree with you.
I like it when people agree with me. I like it when they disagree with me. The former is 90% ego kibble and 10% a reward for due diligence. The latter is 90% about the opportunity it provides to do that much more due diligence and make sure that I am not a fool for agreeing with myself, and 10% possibly learning something new. (It happens.).
When people disagree with me disagreeably (standard mode), I don’t like it a bit. 100% barf-on-shoes. I think we’re all that way. I have for quite some time experimented exhaustively with how people who disagree disagreeably deal with people disagreeing with them disagreeably. It’s beyond quixotic, but sometimes, quite rarely, I draw real sparks of genuine dialog from this.
What kind of disagreement is disagreeable? Any kind that frames itself by “I disagree/you’re wrong”, when really they are just looking at the topic from a different perspective. One can share one’s different perspective without framing it by what doesn’t fit your perspective. One can instead share that differing perspective with a simple ‘here’s how it looks to me’. This incudes hard data. A simple ‘per my reading/understand/whatever of topic x, I see…’
Maybe it’s a cultural thing, this tendency to define ourselves by how we differ from others than by our similarities. It is very much in me, too, and it is the.very.devil, not just of dialog but all things relational. But I like to think I try to define my views at least as much by commonalities as by differences, and to point out distinctions that truly make a difference. Oh, I like to pick nits, but that’s regarding aesthetics, cuz everyone knows that (insert choice) is the greatest guitarist/singer ever! and those who disagree are obviously poopoodoodoocacaheads. 😉
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One other thing. Regarding the germ infection of negative attitudes toward the victims of what many believe is a planned genocide, all that Never Forger/Never Forgive jive, he does exactly what pro-vaxxers did to us: demonize the other. Not only does an eye for an eye leave everyone blind, but when both camps are demonized, where are the angels? What room is there for them? For angelic behavior?
Promoting vengeance is promoting vengeance, and while that perspective might not share well with some, it is nonetheless another perspective on this perpetual blame game where the most important task ios to find the witches and burn them.
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June 19, 2023 at 5:32 pm #137277WESParticipantWith a bounty on each leopard tank killed, no Ukrainian now wants to drive or hitch a ride on a leopard tank to the front!
Ukrainian Leopard crews are now actively sabotaging their leopard tanks to avoid the 100% suicide trip to the front!
It is much safer to drive an old Soviet era tank since the leopard tank gets all the attention but not in a good way!
Unintended consequences nobody thought about! -
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