Debt Rattle May 11 2021


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    The driving DESIRE to WIN at any and all cost.

    Maybe that’s the key. A single, driving DESIRE that endlessly needs to be fed. WINNING is never full-filled, because there is always the next conquest. They have their eye on what’s next even before finishing off the latest round of consumption/destruction. Eventually WINNERS get to the point where even losing is WINNING.

    On some level deep within, WE ALL UNDERSTAND that this driving DESIRE to WIN is not right. The DESIRE to WIN AT ANY COST is not natural, not fair, not truthful, not positive, not generous, not kind, not helpful, not good. Where this uncontrolled desire exists, there will never be co-operation, kindness, real LOVE, or any of the other values WE hold dear.

    Since WINNERS AT ANY COST are their own ecosystem, they need yours/mine to fuel theirs. Perhaps OUR only defense is to disable their ability to feast on our creation/contribution.


    World-wide demonstrations are planned for this Saturday May 15, protesting the removal of liberties related to covid. The link above shows details for protests all around the world. Check out one near you!!!

    madamski cafone

    @ zerosum

    “Can you Infect Covid 19 into bats”

    Seems you have to use a vakzine to do so.

    madamski cafone


    “Perhaps OUR only defense is to disable their ability to feast on our creation/contribution.”

    Now you’re getting somewhere, imo.


    A couple questions for the medical folks here, or anyone familiar with the usual process for bringing a vaccine to market. How long do animal trials for vaccines usually last? How long do human trials usually last?

    I understand that with the current mRNA vaccines the animal trials began after the human trials started — they over lap. I understand that the follow up with the human vaccine trial volunteers was 2.5-3 months after second dose. What is the usual length of these things? (If I’m telling folks why I don’t want my kids vaccinated, it helps to have my facts straight!)

    @ zero sum
    In this article: it goes over how Covid does not effectively infect bats.


    @ Phoenix – vaccine development usually takes 10-15 years.

    Even Pfizer themselves will tell you that!

    “The path to disease prevention – the development of a novel vaccine – is a complex and lengthy process that generally takes 10 to 15 years.”

    Doc Robinson

    Today, former British ambassador and whistleblower Craig Murray was sentenced to 8 months in prison for reporting the same details of a court case which some mainstream news outlets had also published. He was the only one prosecuted.

    His sentence conveniently prevents him from going “to Spain to testify in the criminal prosecution for the CIA spying on Assange’s legal team.” Some of Murray’s meetings with Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy were secretly recorded.

    “Defence say Mr Murray is due to give evidence in a Spanish Court on May 20 on a Julian Assange related case. [Judge] Lady Dorrian says in that case they could begin the prison sentence on the 19th”


    @ Doc – That is saddest news.
    When the State decides to punish you they can, and will.

    Appeal For Defence Funds

    Doc Robinson

    phoenixvoice: “…the usual process for bringing a vaccine to market”?

    Before Covid, the fastest vaccine development took 4 years, and that was for mumps in the 1960s. Every other vaccine took longer than 4 years.

    The fastest vaccine in history

    December 10, 2020

    The COVID-19 vaccines coming soon to the United States and already approved in the U.K. and Canada are the fastest vaccines ever created.

    In a remarkable achievement of medical science, we’ve gone from identifying a new pathogen — the novel coronavirus known as SARS-CoV-2 — to discovering an immune response against it to developing and testing a safe and effective vaccine for it in less than 12 months.

    Previously, the fastest vaccine to go from development to deployment was the mumps vaccine in the 1960s, which took about four years.


    @ absolute galore

    I obtained a new client once, a small law firm I was acquainted with who contacted me when one computer was infected with a ransomeware virus. The virus encrypts, essentially, all files in the system not necessary to the running of the operating system (I.e. Windows.). For the oil pipeline company, it could mean encryption of all files that are the software to run the pipeline. Theoretically, they should have air-gapped backups of everything important. Even if they do, ransomeware has the potential of infecting across networks…which means each infected computer must be identified and isolated from the network (I.e. unplugged from Ethernet/WiFi), cleaned (probably by reinstall of everything, or complete restoration from backup.). All of this must be done before the computers can be networked back together. So, even if they have good backups of everything, the man-hours to do all of this is immense. Especially because network administrators usually perform such tasks (including backup/restore) remotely, and in this sort of case the restoration either can’t be done remotely or must be done very carefully remotely be creating isolated networks of uninfected machines.

    There are drawbacks to networks. (Which was, interestingly enough, used as an explanation of why the fictional Enterprise starship in Star Trek the original series appeared in some ways to be “lower tech” than the Enterprise NX-01 in the Star Trek Enterprise series. The Enterprise relaunch books explain that the Romulans devised a way to send a virus to give them remote control of a starship via its networks, and subsequent Federation ship designs had systems isolated from each other to prevent this from happening.). 😉


    Thanks phoenixvoice

    “Can you Infect Covid 19 into bats” -zerosum
    Lots of info on Who did what.
    Origin of Covid — Following the Clues
    Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?
    One problem with this idea, though, is that if SARS2 jumped from bats to people in a single leap and hasn’t changed much since, it should still be good at infecting bats. And it seems it isn’t.

    “Tested bat species are poorly infected by SARS-CoV-2 and they are therefore unlikely to be the direct source for human infection,” write a scientific group skeptical of natural emergence.
    ( )

    if indeed SARS2 was generated in a lab, for allowing the virus to escape and unleash a world-wide pandemic. Here are the players who seem most likely to deserve blame.

    1. Chinese virologists
    2. Chinese authorities
    3. The worldwide community of virologists
    4. The US Role in Funding the Wuhan Institute of Virology
    Nicholas Wade April 30,2021


    @ Phoenix – for the kids:

    “93 Israeli doctors: Do not use Covid-19 vaccine on children”

    Vaccinating children is a crime against humanity

    Dr. Paul Alexander, former HHS adviser says that kids should not get Covid vaccine.

    Maxwell Quest

    “Civil War Is Brewing In France And You Know It: French Military To Macron (RT)”

    I said it years ago and will say it again today, Macron was installed in power, not by the French but by the globalists, in order to destroy French nationalism. The same applies to Angela Merkel and Germany. How else can you explain leaders that open their borders for the mass immigration of highly unassimilable foreigners in what amounts to a reverse Crusades?

    Ask yourself, what good could possibly come from this? Why are leaders forcing policies on their people which are 180 degrees opposite of what are demanded? Where Yellow-Vests are shot in the face for their protest?

    If your goal was a one world government, however, then this would be a necessary step. Those nations with strong national identities and cultures would need to be weakened considerably so as to more easily be subjected to a common centralized power structure.

    This would also explain all of the hysteria around Trump, and why the opposition was unwilling to wait him out. He was a lightning rod for American nationalism don’t you see. He was never part of the plan and had to be removed, even if it meant marshalling every resource at their disposal in order to censor opposition and elevate an unpopular, senile political hack to the presidency by election fraud.

    Doc Robinson

    I looked at the FDA’s justification for their decision to extend the Pfizer EUA to adolescents (age 12-15), and what struck me was the small amount of data they have. Only as few as 566 (or so) children were monitored, and for possibly less than 3 months, after getting the second injection. “At least 2 months” doesn’t give much reassurance about potential long-term effects in growing children.

    FDA Evaluation of Available Safety Data

    The available safety data to support the EUA in adolescents down to 12 years of age, include 2,260 participants ages 12 through 15 years old enrolled in an ongoing randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial in the United States. Of these, 1,131 adolescent participants received the vaccine and 1,129 received a saline placebo. More than half of the participants were followed for safety for at least two months following the second dose.

    The most commonly reported side effects in the adolescent clinical trial participants, which typically lasted 1-3 days, were pain at the injection site, tiredness, headache, chills, muscle pain, fever and joint pain.

    Doc Robinson

    Yesterday, the FDA decided to allow the Pfizer injections for 12-17 year-old children, and this decision was made before the FDA advisory committee meeting (on June 10) to discuss “Pediatric Use of COVID-19 Vaccines.”

    FDA In Brief: FDA to Hold Meeting of its Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee to Discuss Pediatric Use of COVID-19 Vaccines

    Doc Robinson

    Correction: 12-15 year-old children.

    madamski cafone

    @ Maxwell Quest

    You’ll notice that most of the immigrants involved are the result of NATO bombing their homeland into shyte. The correlation may be informative.


    From a website mentioned in a ZH comment, from Jaques Attali, advisor to F. Mitterand in 1981:

    ““In the future it will be a question of finding a way to reduce the population. We will start with the old, because as soon as it exceeds 60-65 years man lives longer than he produces and costs society dearly, then the weak and then the useless who do nothing for society because there will be more and more of them, and especially the stupid ones.

    Euthanasia targeting these groups; euthanasia will have to be an essential instrument of our future societies, in all cases. We cannot of course execute people or set up camps. We will get rid of them by making them believe it is for their own good.

    Too large a population, and for the most part unnecessary, is something economically too expensive. Socially, it is also much better for the human machine to come to an abrupt halt rather than gradually deteriorating. We won’t be able to run intelligence tests on millions and millions of people, you can imagine!
    We will find something or cause it, a pandemic that targets certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus that will affect the old or the fat, it doesn’t matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and the stupid will believe it and ask to be treated.

    We will have taken care to have planned the treatment, a treatment that will be the solution.

    The selection of idiots will thus be done on its own: they will go to the slaughterhouse on their own.”

    Hmmmm. Nice guy. Must have been a hoot at dinner parties.


    Societies on the down-and-out do tend to develop irrational (hmmm… that would take defining reason) behavior, oing for excess, crazes, turbulence, to put it mildly.

    Continuing.. There is a traditional, but kinda modernist view all the same, in the devp. world, that when things go to sh*t, ‘violence’ increases – it is defined as ‘crime’ – i.e. looting, theft, person-on-person violence, mass shootings of the crazed lone gunman type, small groups (like drug runners, or aspiring Mafia types) getting into fights, shooting things out in the street, domestic violence increasing, women on the bad end, hold ups, petty theft, car hikacks, and so on, everyone knows about this, it is the deplorables driven to despair or skilfully looking for oppos to gain advantage / sadistically harm others / let their most violent selves have sway for revenge, and so on.


    This restricted, blinkered (sic) pov ignores the possible excesses of those in power, who when they feel threatened are actually more easily sucked into and dominated by group-think, as they are ‘the top’, form a ‘class’ that wields more leverage, is more closely knit, communicates ‘the truth’ to its members, satellites, offshoots, adherents. And ropes all of them in…

    The idea that in 2020, a primitive seeking out of scapegoats, hypocritical yet hearfelt (yes, I know..), from jeering blame > an important power (Russia 3x) at the top, accompanied with way below, crowd-triumph re. a few horrible ppl (ex. Weinstein, Chauvin..) is happening, is easy to accept. That doesn’t seem too ‘special’ .. unfortunately. (It does require thrashing the old ideas of nation states and diplomacy..)

    But what of human sacrifice? (See ppl deprived of easy covid treatment.) In huge numbers? That surely is 3 steps up. What of the catharsis thru condemning to death many, many ppl, old, disabled, sick, young, handicapped? It is a bit like the burning of witches – with the blatant aggro public display part (burning) transmogrified by tech-sci-speak, false stats, and “oh we all have to BE safe.” Made official in the ‘no treatment’ possible, the ‘do not ressucitate’ orders (covered up, in Britain and Sweden), etc.

    The past is not a different country..


    I managed to find a proof for the Gates Paradox. This paradox holds that the world’s population can be reduced by vaccinating kids As I write for my betters I will leave it entirely up to them to see if they find it convicing.

    Bill has been attacked by unkind and ungrateful people for stating during a TED talk ‘If we do a really great job on new vaccines , healthcare and reproductive health services we can lower the population by 10 or 15 percent’. The slide illustrating this point showed Africans in colourful clothing. Bill was cocerned that they would be producing too much carbon dioxide if left to their own devices. He could have pointed out to his billionaire pals to take it easy on their superyachts and jets to private islands but no the Africans were earmarked for his philanthropy.

    The next step in my quest to solve the paradox took me to the AFP fact checker. This is a charitably funded site generously paid for by the Koch brothers to put us right on any misapprehensions we might have Here I found a tweet purporting to be from Bill posted in 2012.

    It read ‘How do we reduce population growth? By reducing infant mortality. I was surprised too..

    Not as surprised as I was Bill! So I clicked on the link excitedly keen to solve the paradox at last….

    404 Uh oh.That page doesn’t exist. Tell us what you are looking for and we will search Gates notes for you.

    Followed by a malaware warning in Spanish. Quiere continuar? No gracias…It’s not that I don’t trust you when it comes to viruses but you know….

    Fortunately all was not lost for the Amercans for Prosperity fact checker continued, ‘Gates recommended developing vaccines to reduce child mortality thereby increasing a child’s surviving to adulthood and encouraging parents to benefit from government resources saying, “a virtuous cycle begins that takes a country out of poverty”.

    Now that’s what I call virtue signalling and these days you’re going to need a lot of it. But Bill virtuous people don’t associate with Epstein unless they have a large crucifix and a bucket of holy water.

    Michael Reid

    @ Maxwell Quest

    I feel your comment is making valid points. Most of the Western governments are ignoring the concerns of their citizens and catering to the interests of the elites. We have seen our freedoms crushed, the citizens actively abused by law enforcement and the citizens not protected from criminal acts. We are no longer being protected by government. Government is a war with its citizens

    Michael Reid

    @ my parents said know

    Your comment is much how I understand what is happening except I believe it’s even worse than described. It seems unreal but it seems to be our reality. Time will tell


    Watch: Sen. Paul Shreds Fauci Over ‘Gain-Of-Function’ Funding

    Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) went to town on Dr. Anthony Fauci Tuesday during a Tuesday hearing in front of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee.

    Paul alleged that the National Institutes of Health (NIH) had used a middle-man to funnel money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology via EcoHealth Alliance – which worked with the lab on bat coronavirus projects.

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    Paul specifically referenced so-called “gain-of-function” research which in this case has been focused on how to make animal viruses more transmissible to humans – specifically bat coronaviruses.

    “Government scientists like yourself who favor gain of function research,” Paul began…

    …only to have Fauci interject “I don’t favor gain of function research in China,” adding “You are saying things that are not correct.”

    Paul pushed back – continuing:

    “[Those who favor gain of function] say that COVID-19 mutations were random and not designed by man.”

    “I do not have any accounting of what the Chinese may have done,” Fauci shot back, adding that he’s in favor of further investigation, but that the NIH had nothing to do with the origins of COVID-19.

    “We have not funded gain of function research on this virus in the Wuhan Institute of Virology,” he added.

    “No matter how many times you say it, it didn’t happen.”


    Believe your leaders
    “No matter how many times you say it, it didn’t happen.” – Fauci
    “No proof of wrong doing” – Biden

    madamski cafone

    Fauci will find his doom in his own way. He’s such a maverick! 😉 He said, “We have not funded gain of function research on this virus in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.”

    Probably true. They funded it elsewhere, I’m sure, and I bet that Germ will soon produce evidence of this for us. For now, here’s this much:

    Feds lift gain-of-function research pause, offer guidance

    More Fauci g-o-r: Fauci Reportedly Relaunched NIH Gain-of-Function Research without Consulting White House

    As for Jacques Attali et al, I want to point out some context: the population has been on a runaway growth bubble for over a century, during which time the powerful have dispensed all manner of deprivation and violence to the less powerful against a backdrop of ever more ICBMs and ever less natural resources to sustain the population.

    It is foolish to conflate earnestly addressing this problem and proposing methods more peaceful than a Holocaust here and a nuclear winter there.

    It is not a pleasant topic, but we tend to forget this simple fact: we’re fucked any way you look at it.

    Few people will line up to voluntarily euthanize (although we’ll see a major rise in suicide and murder as things disintegrate), so it is natural for TPTB to ponmder ways to make it heppen more peacefully than not… because not to do so will lead to such widespread famine and warfare it will make the Book of Revelations seem gentle.

    As for Gates/vaccination/depopulation: when famine or a majorly decimating pandemic hits, the birthrate goes through the roof. This happrens in almost all species: heavy survival pressure bids us to screwe our brains out and massively reproduce so that at least a few kids get through, for bio9logy isa drioven by our unique individual separate genes which drive behaviors concerned about making sure an individual’s genes get through even if most other genes don’t.

    People screw all day in refugee camps is only because there’s nothing else to do, it feels great, and we crave the human connection. We don’t THINK ‘I must reproduce excessively so my genes carry on’, we just do it via basic emotional impulses… our emotions after all being shaped by Darwinian reproductive/selective pressure.

    I know an idealistic young Xtian couple who are breeding kids like Mormons on Viagra because they are also government-mistrusting health-fanatics who are aware of the fertility crisis. Somehow they think it’s bad if we have less than 8-billion plus homo saps on the planet.

    Yes, Gates is an insane piece of work. Boy ain’ty right in the head. But looking for a way to depopulate in a way that doesn’t invlove war or famine or major plagues is in itself a good thing, imo, not a bad. WHat they’re doing will only make it worse, but that’s par for the course.

    As for New World Order globalist plans: it’s logical to how we’ve done things since Christ wore training wheel sideburns at rabbi school. THey and most everybody else believes in centralized authority over vast numbers of people; we’re a planet of nations. WHat they propose is logical per that point of view. It’s implicit in the Star Trek model of utopian future that is the de facto default setting for Euromerican modes of thoughts about a future happier than not, which everyone wants to believe in, of course.

    So my question is: why all the whining? Would you prefer all out nuclear warfare? That’s one of the things that guys like Atali are trying to avoid. They’re doing an extremely bad job of it, b ut that too is par for the course because (secret whisper): there are way too many of uss in all respects. WAY too many.

    Something’s going to cull the herd. Might very be ourselves, albeit in our usual fashion: one group oppressing another. It’s how we roll.

    fwiw, here’s a look into Attali’s work on large-scale challenges to human survival/prosperity:

    Reflections on growth and positive economics
    Commission for the Liberation of French Growth, known as “Attali Commission”
    On 24 July 2007, Nicolas Sarkozy appointed Jacques Attali to chair a bipartisan commission charged with studying “the bottlenecks that constrain growth”. It was composed of 42 members, freely appointed by Attali, mostly liberals and social democrats. Its unanimous report was handed over to the President on 23 January 2008. It contained various recommendations to radically transform the French economy and society in order to unlock economic growth.

    Commission for “Positive Economics”
    In 2012, French President François Hollande ordered from Attali a report on the “positive economics” situation. The aim of this report was to put an end to the short-termism, to move from an individualistic economy based on the short-term to an economy based on public interest and the interest of future generations, to organize the transition from an old model based on the wealth economy to a model in which economic agents will have other obligations than profit maximization. This report, written by a wide-ranging commission, proposed 44 reforms.

    I don’t want to sanctify the man but he’s hardly a demon, more like someone making an attempt to be a realist. Sadly, he’s an economist so he probably thinks entropy is some word for nerds to use in physics labs, not a real thing in real life.

    madamski cafone

    Fauci’s scared.


    A seemingly long while back I wondered on here: how would you feel if the survivors of some future kill-off were the ones who caused it? Would it bother you that the diamond-hearted, self-appointed übermensch were the future of humankind?

    Freudian slip– cute as the dickens, from Inv.watchblog.


    I take back my recommendation to join the world wide demonstrations on Saturday – their information on the goals is non-existent. You would have no idea what you are signing up for.

    Mr. House

    Ah a mixture of a nihilist and a sadist! Let the rich kill you off! They created the problem, hence they’re not allowed to decide the “solution”. You know what the best part about chaos is Madimski? It’s fair.

    madamski cafone

    @ Mr. House

    If you refer to me (I’m not sure) there’s no sadism involved. Nihilism, yes, in regards to humanity by itself. I have less than zero hope for humanity by itself to pull itself out of its self-dug grave by its bootstraps. This is why I’ve explored spiritual/supernatural explanations… and to my surprise, found them fairly logical.

    As for “let the rich kill you off”: you need to start thinking more before you reply to me. The rich are killing us off regardless but that’s beside the point. It’s not at all sadistic for me to say that I think scaled depopulation by means less violent than nuclear warfare is a better idea than massive warfare amid massive deprivation, chaos, and anomie. Nor is it sadistic (or defeatist) to think that it is better for the experts/authorities to think in terms of organized euthanasia rather than wanton global indiscriminate genocide.

    Seriously: where do you come up with these interpretations?

    As a nihilist regarding secular humanity, I don’t care about “fair” either. I care, pragmatically, about what’s feasible, and idealistically, I care about loving kindness as my primary objective come what may including imprisonment, torture, and all those lovely prospects that are likely to await a renegade like me when push comes to shove.

    A Prayer for a bit of sanctuary

    Mister Roboto

    We will find something or cause it, a pandemic that targets certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus that will affect the old or the fat, it doesn’t matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and the stupid will believe it and ask to be treated.

    “So what do we do if this disease mutates and starts killing the young and the healthy, or God forbid, too many people who actually matter?”

    “Don’t sweat it, we’ll just make it so that it can be treated with something as easy to produce and distribute as aspirin tablets, but of course that also means we’ll have to work extra hard to keep knowledge of this ‘cheat treatment’ suppressed and on the margins. By this time, the world will be so full of propaganda and confusion that most people won’t know their asses from a hole in the ground, so that should be easy enough.”



    You seem to be proselytizing a bit much lately. I’m with House on this one. Let’s create our own chaos and see what happens.

    madamski cafone

    @ Archie

    “Let’s create our own chaos and see what happens.”

    That is exactly what I have been advocating. Some people find it easy to assume that if I take an objective view of something, like the actions, roles, and plans, alleged and known, of the very powerful, that I am endorsing them. It is as if you are incapable of any but a polar position: they’re all BAD! and so we must hatessss them! or the revewrse.

    I’m simply pointing out that TPTB have ALREADY fucked things up to the max, collapse is inevitable, and I for one have little energy to waste on hysterical denunciations when there is, after all, this chaos that you mentined coming our way and in fact already arriving.

    Do you actually think I’m endorsing their actions? Shoot the messenger seems to be the new hooby around here.

    But go ahead. KNock yourself out. Put words in my mouth that I didn’t say. As a younger woman, I learned that we were defoliating entire watersheds in Viet Nam while also conducting a nuclear arms race while also polluting the planet while also burning up a millenium’s worth of fossil fuels while creating climate upheaval while crreating breeding super-pathogens via indiscriminate antibiotic use and increasingly rapid and populous global travel while sending our children to dummy schools while… excuse me if I find it downright sophomoric, all this pointing the finger at TPTB.

    Tell me something I don’t know, maybe?

    P.S. It’s not as if most everyone here isn’t proselytizing one thing or another.

    I know! I know! If we all agree on who to blame and hate, our problems will be solved! Yeah!

    Oh well. I’ve offered a few practical suggestions. It’s time I left you alone to your echo-chamber chest-hooting. I’ll leave us with this question: what makes us think we aren’t among the weak and stupid?

    V. Arnold

    I’ll leave us with this question: what makes us think we aren’t among the weak and stupid?

    You might enjoy this…

    Everything you know is crap.
    Everything you think is crap.
    Everything you have been taught is crap.
    Everything you say is crap.
    And everything you believe is crap…
    Thayer Dowd

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