Learning to Think in Multiple Scales

 

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  • #2462

    Candace
    Member

    Backwards,

    I think you saw REs number below for being top of the food chain on a planetary scale. I remembered a different number. But I suspect it changes depending on what gets included in the calculation.

    RE also stated that he suspects that no more than 100 or so are the players in control. I’ve been in comment sections where people then wanted to get down to specific names (Info Wars comes to mind, but so does Keiser). What is the next logical step to emancipate humanity once you have a list of names? Maybe it’s just to publicly out them, or maybe something more along the lines of the French revolution or the Khmer Rouge. Of course after things got “rolling” so to speak, the list of names got longer, because getting rid of people on the list didn’t actually solve the problem.

    In my view the problem is our complicity and ignorance. The people who have tried to end complicity and ignorance only seem to get so far before the message gets co-opted into something that perpetuates complicity and ignorance.

    I’m glad you, Triv, RE, and Ben have got the answer and will be able to fix the human race. Sincerely. I hope it happens. From where I’m sitting things are looking quite bleak.

    Candace

    #2469

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Golden Oxen post=2063 wrote: @ TheTrivium4TW For a harmless metal that evolved to become money to many, you sure give it a lot more powers than I ever imagined it had. Possible reason for the Revolutionary War was quite a revelation, thanks. Due to your unique input I can now better understand why the alien reptiles allowed the Egyptians to discover it in order for the TPTB group of hybrids to maintain control of colony earth. I just threw the tiny amount I own in the waste basket and washed my hands of it for good. Thanks again for the amazing revelations, I had no idea.

    Ad Hominem, Straw Man, False Dichotomy, Non Sequitur

    Clearly, you have an agenda that precludes new data points or logic.

    However, I’d like to be clear since you completely misrepresented my positions.

    1. I do not believe in alien reptiles. That is David Icke and others. I made clear that I do not understand that point of view. Please stop inferring lies about my belief system.

    2. I never said gold was bad or ought to be thrown in the garbage can. If you do so, you are as ignorant about asset value as you are about avoiding logical fallacies (I don’t think you are deceptive, I think you just have no idea what you are doing and how it exposes you to manipulation).

    I love the fact you have an opinion that can differ from mine (freedom is great!), but there is no benefit discussing ideas, data, logic with someone who has no interest.

    The irony here is that you misrepresent me as some kind of know it all, but it is you who is unable to consider any other data or logic. I provide data and sources for analysis, you provide false claims and inferences.

    Top 20 Logical Fallacies
    https://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx

    I actually value arguments from people who can reasonably and logically test my hypothesises the most… People who agree with me off the bat will never elevate my understanding of reality.

    That’s a word to the wise.

    #2470

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Candace post=2068 wrote: Backwards,

    I think you saw REs number below for being top of the food chain on a planetary scale. I remembered a different number. But I suspect it changes depending on what gets included in the calculation.

    RE also stated that he suspects that no more than 100 or so are the players in control. I’ve been in comment sections where people then wanted to get down to specific names (Info Wars comes to mind, but so does Keiser). What is the next logical step to emancipate humanity once you have a list of names? Maybe it’s just to publicly out them, or maybe something more along the lines of the French revolution or the Khmer Rouge. Of course after things got “rolling” so to speak, the list of names got longer, because getting rid of people on the list didn’t actually solve the problem.

    In my view the problem is our complicity and ignorance. The people who have tried to end complicity and ignorance only seem to get so far before the message gets co-opted into something that perpetuates complicity and ignorance.

    I’m glad you, Triv, RE, and Ben have got the answer and will be able to fix the human race. Sincerely. I hope it happens. From where I’m sitting things are looking quite bleak.

    Candace

    Candace, it is bleak from my vantage point, too. But is bleak because we consent.

    Buy local. Pay cash. Dis-corporate (avoid big corporations). Distrust the media and never vote for a media promoted candidate. The media is controlled. Build community. Get GMO labelled (petition is out in CA – sign it). Grow your own food. Get fluoride out of the water. Promote a healthy diet. Embrace freedom and differences in people around you – so long as the heart is good. Get educated and educate people.

    BTW, I think people have a difficult time with the control mental construct.

    Systems are created and put into place by a group I’ll call The Architects.

    Once the system is in place, it takes on a life of its own.

    Step 1: Debt Dollar Tyranny transfers monetary wealth primarily to the The Architect Class and their interests (which is why they set the system up – Econ 101, people… self interest!)

    Step 2: “Capitalist” overlay (it isn’t capitalism with Debt Dollar Tyranny in play – not even close – but they lie to deceive everyone) ensures that the people with the most money will tend to have their way as everyone else in society scrambles for monetary wealth to survive.

    The Architects are the ultimate controllers and they set up a system that would incentivize everyone else to pursue their agenda over the long term – think boiling frog slowly so he doesn’t jump out analogy.

    I can’t imagine that the Architects group consists of very many people.

    Superclass posits that about 6,000 people working under The Architects essentially manage the world for them… but he disavows that 6,000 people secretly running the world is a “conspiracy.”

    You make up your own mind.

    https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=Superclass%3A+The+Global+Power+Elite+and+the+World+They+Are+Making&x=56&y=16

    #2476

    pipefit
    Participant

    Eugene–“it is obvious to me that the vast majority of commenters and bloggers are living a standard of living far beyond the masses.”

    Probably accurate. Another thing that really stands out on these monetary/financial/gold/inflation-deflation boards is that you almost never see any mention of God, religion, or spirituality. Do get me wrong, I’m not a bible thumper, but I do belong to a spiritual program.

    You wonder why most of these people posting are so pessimistic, and then it becomes clear: they have no God or higher power to turn to in times of stress. Will God save us? Beats me, but it seems like a slam dunk that no human force will avert the looming train wreck.

    The human race has survived many prior hyper inflations, so why can’t we survive the current one? Those that have no spirituality, and therefore focus strictly on economic losses, will be miserable, but some of us will be o.k. with it.

    #2478

    Candace post=2068 wrote:

    RE also stated that he suspects that no more than 100 or so are the players in control.

    BULLSHIT! I have never stated any such thing on any message board at any time in this Universe. There are WAY more than 100 people involved in this, hell that would not even cover all the heirs of Mayer Rothschild.

    I’m glad you, Triv, RE, and Ben have got the answer and will be able to fix the human race. Sincerely. I hope it happens. From where I’m sitting things are looking quite bleak.

    Candace

    None of the 3 of us far as I can tell have claimed we have an answer that will fix the Human Race, at least not before there are a lot of Dead People. In this respect, I would say we all see a pretty bleak future also.

    I do hold out some hope for Humanity though, and after all is said and done I hope that we can emerge to build a Better Tomorrow living under better principles in harmony with the Earth ad its processes. We will not be getting from here to there though in a pailess manner. I SEE Dead People.

    RE
    https://www.doomsteaddiner.com

    #2496

    Candace
    Member

    BULLSHIT! I have never stated any such thing on any message board at any time in this Universe. There are WAY more than 100 people involved in this, hell that would not even cover all the heirs of Mayer Rothschild

    Mea Culpa… That was Triv. Sorry.

    #2504

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Candace post=2102 wrote: BULLSHIT! I have never stated any such thing on any message board at any time in this Universe. There are WAY more than 100 people involved in this, hell that would not even cover all the heirs of Mayer Rothschild

    Mea Culpa… That was Triv. Sorry.

    Hi Candace, there is a difference between actual decisions makers at the decision table and people who are complicit in the decisions made by the decision makers. The decision makers are a small subset of the people “involved” in knowingly executing the decisions. Those who knowingly execute the decisions are a small subset of the people who respond to economic signals (paychecks) that are set up to further the decision makers’ agenda – and have no idea what is going on.

    Is G. Edward Griffin wrong?

    The Creature From Jekyll Island (by G. Edward Griffin)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k

    How many people does he cite as being involved in creating and forcing Debt Dollar tyranny down our throats – and guaranteeing our national bankruptcy?

    #2506

    TheTrivium4TW post=2110 wrote:
    How many people does he cite as being involved in creating and forcing Debt Dollar tyranny down our throats – and guaranteeing our national bankruptcy?

    Triv, although I agree that a relatively small number of people put into place “Debt-Dollar Tyranny”, this is not the real problem here. The problem is one of systems, not so much people. if it was just people it would not persist for more than a generation or two.

    A system of money came to be created for many reasons, but mainly it was a outcome of agriculture. Many such systems developed over the millenia, but over time one system swallowed them all up. Reasons for that go mostly back to “Guns Germs and Steel” ad who got there first with respect to industrialization.

    The outcome of this is that there are a relatively few people who “own” most everything, and then everybody else who has to work under the system they manage. However, to limit that to 100 people up at the top is probably not correct, becuase over time the system creates many managers, new ones all the time really. Bill Gates for instance I do not think has Plantaganet origins in his family tree, but nevertheless he became part of the system by working it well.

    There are IMHO other more shadowy figures out there than Bill Gates who control much more than he does, but I personally do not think a small cabal of Old Jews or Elders of Zion or even Reptiles are running this show. What is running this show is a SYSTEM that had its origins back in the dawn of recorded history, and a relatively few people have always been in control of this system. However, in any given generation its not necessarily all the SAME people, it cannot be because people die of course. Its not even pure in its familial lines, although to be sure the biggest Pigmen above Bill Gates come from very old fortunes.

    The sytem however is the important thing, not the people, though of course those who run the system must be accountable for their actions, if not i this world then in the Great Beyond. How many of them are actually responsible here? Many more than 100. You have CB heads, Corporate Heads of companies like GE and Exxon, the list goes on and on here. They are all part of a system created long ago, and it is their JOB to perpetuate that system. It is the system of the world in monetary terms. When it fails, not if, all that we have known since the Dawn of Agriculture will be no more. This is what they are trying to stop from occurrinng, or at least slow it down some. They cannot win this game, the system is overloaded and shot to hell. They will however attempt to maitain control of it for so long as they can. In my estimation, that will not be much longer, but the intervening time here is going to be mighty ugly.

    RE

    #2542

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Hi RE,

    If you read the part of my post you didn’t quote, the 100 or so (as a possibility and little more – I have no idea what the true number is) excluded the managers, which you then add back in to challenge the 100 number.

    Rothkopf thinks the high level decision makers number about 6,000 – as cited in his book Superclass. This may well include just the management team of the The Architects and not the Architects themselves – they don’t like spotlights, just authoritarian control.

    I agree that a systems approach is very valuable, in fact necessary, to get a grip on what is going on here.

    But I wouldn’t dismiss The Architects of the system as readily as you do. Obviously, this crime scene is intergenerational, but the current generation operating it have incredible wealth, influence and control – and ending this system will only cause them to create another.

    Yes, it is ultimately crime that is bad when you are a victim, but to ignore the criminal who perpetrated it is to pretty much ensure another crime manifestation will show itself in the future.

    #2544

    TheTrivium4TW post=2148 wrote: Hi RE,

    If you read the part of my post you didn’t quote, the 100 or so (as a possibility and little more – I have no idea what the true number is) excluded the managers, which you then add back in to challenge the 100 number.

    Rothkopf thinks the high level decision makers number about 6,000 – as cited in his book Superclass. This may well include just the management team of the The Architects and not the Architects themselves – they don’t like spotlights, just authoritarian control.

    I agree that a systems approach is very valuable, in fact necessary, to get a grip on what is going on here.

    But I wouldn’t dismiss The Architects of the system as readily as you do. Obviously, this crime scene is intergenerational, but the current generation operating it have incredible wealth, influence and control – and ending this system will only cause them to create another.

    Yes, it is ultimately crime that is bad when you are a victim, but to ignore the criminal who perpetrated it is to pretty much ensure another crime manifestation will show itself in the future.

    I’m not going to quibble about trying to fix a precise number to the very TOP of the Food Chain here, other than to say I think it is more than 100 but less than 10,000, for a 2 order of magnitude spread of possibilities. In any event in a world with 7B people, its a very small fraction that run the show and call the shots here.

    In any group of such size, there are going to be factions with different agendas and priorities. This is not a uniform group by any means IMHO. The “battle” here at the moment is mainly at the Top, even though of course J6P is currently taking the biggest hit here in terms of wealth expropriation. Nevertheless, its the top players who are positioning themselves with respect to each other on the Chess Board.

    To extend the Chess metaphor somewhat, imagine a board where all the Pawns have been wiped out. This basically is equivalent to eviscerating all the wealth of the Middle and Lower classes of society, leaving them with nothing. The game is not OVER though, because Bishops and Knights still cruise around the Chessboard looking to gain control of more squares. They only have EACH OTHER to fight at this point, the Pawns are gone from the game.

    What I see occurring here as this game progresses is further Cannibalism at the Top of the Food Chain. What can be extracted from J6P is basically tapped out at this point, as I made the case to Ash, I don’t think even Slavery of either the Debt kind or the explicit kind is a profitable venture anymore. If you cannot extract wealth from the Slaves, who is left to do that from? Only from each other really, so it is my belief that the Top of the Food chain here will Cannibalize each other, and quite rapidly really in Civilization terms once it gets going in earnest.

    You say you believe these folks have such control that they will be able in the aftermath of this collapse to set up a new system, I do not think this is so. I often argue this point with my partner on DD Peter, who believes as you do that these folks can maintain control through the spin down. I think the control is wholly dependent on Conduits developed thRough the Industrial Era which upon collapse will make it impossible to run any type of Global System of control as exists now. I think they will fight each other and consume each other as there is No Honor Amongst Thieves. I believe their power will dissipate and diminish as Energy resource becomes net negative in EROEI.

    I do not think that there is Zero Point Energy that will be accessed, or Abiotic Oil, though both might in theory exist. They are both plausible hypotheses, but not likely ones under the circumstances we see developing. It makes no sense to destroy your own habitat if in fact you did have access to either one of these possibilities. If they were accessible in the near future or even the present, then they could be used easily to maintain the kind of perpetual Dystopian Vison that Huxley and Orwell painted as likely so many years ago. If that POWER was available to use, I see no reason why Power Seekers such as the top group is would not access it and use it NOW.

    I do not paint a rosy picture for the future, but neither do I think it is true that our current set of Illuminati masters, who are in many cases descended from long running familial lines can possibly maintain control of this spin down as it works its way inward.

    In the end, they will LOSE, because the Meek Shall Inherit the Earth. Right AFTER the Meek get Very, VERY Angry.

    RE
    https://www.doomsteaddiner.com

    #2553

    ben
    Member

    why would they use ZPE now and not later when there are fewer people to control? what makes now the right time? don’t they have the non-negotiable toll on the biosphere of billions of humans to factor in?

    #2555

    ben post=2159 wrote: why would they use ZPE now and not later when there are fewer people to control? what makes now the right time? don’t they have the non-negotiable toll on the biosphere of billions of humans to factor in?

    Because why would you turn your own backyard into a poisoned and irradiated sewer not fit for anything above the level of the tardigrades to live on if you had the means to control world population (and eliminate it also if you so chose) in a clean manner? It seems rather stupid even for nefarious Illuminati to poison the planet they live on if they don’t have to do that.

    RE

    #2561

    ben
    Member

    Because why would you turn your own backyard into a poisoned and irradiated sewer not fit for anything above the level of the tardigrades to live on if you had the means to control world population (and eliminate it also if you so chose) in a clean manner? It seems rather stupid even for nefarious Illuminati to poison the planet they live on if they don’t have to do that.

    RE

    i just don’t find that reasoning suffiicient is all.

    what if it’s a catch-22? can’t have scaled-up ZPE without mature industrialism. can’t have mature industrialism without ecological collapse.

    #2563

    ben post=2167 wrote:
    i just don’t find that reasoning suffiicient is all.

    what if it’s a catch-22? can’t have scaled-up ZPE without mature industrialism. can’t have mature industrialism without ecological collapse.

    If it is a Catch-22 they missed the “mature” phase a while back here and have now made it to the over-ripe and soon to be rotten phase, so sorry TIME’S UP! They lose, they just didn’t get there in time. Trillions spent on NASA and Super Conducting Super Colliders and the best Physicists in the Biz from Einstein to Feynman and they just couldn’t get the test done in time.

    If my reasoning is not sufficient in this thread for you Ben, just keep reading at the Diner. I’m sure you’ll eventually find an argument that resonates with you in there somewhere. LOL.

    RE
    https://www.doomsteaddiner.com

    #2569

    ben
    Member

    “If my reasoning is not sufficient in this thread for you Ben, just keep reading at the Diner. I’m sure you’ll eventually find an argument that resonates with you in there somewhere. LOL.”

    i’ve found me plenty. thanks! 🙂

    but this was a hypothetical ZPE scenario that assumed it to exist and to presumably be Black Ops, so to say Time’s Up doesn’t apply. to say they missed the mature phase of industrialism a while back also doesn’t make sense to me. what else has died yet other than NASA? though we are probably getting close, surely we haven’t passed Peak Black Ops (PBO) yet.

    i’m just trying to follow to its logical conclusion one of numerous points in your original comment.

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