Sep 072012
 
 September 7, 2012  Posted by at 3:31 pm Finance
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I don't know about you, but I would label my personal knowledge of Hungary as wanting, if not painfully incomplete. It's not an easy country to come to grips with, not least of all of course because Hungarian doesn't look like any western language we know with the possible exception of Finnish. I did visit just after the Wall came down, and remember huge contrasts, almost paradoxes, between rural poverty and a capital, Budapest, that was much richer than other capitals such as Prague, a leftover of Budapest's status as meeting place between western and eastern diplomats and businessmen.

The riches were not for all, though, the city center was full of beggars and panhandlers, mostly Roma. To keep up the paradox, Mercedes sold more luxury models in Hungary than just about anywhere else back then, reportedly mostly also to Roma; just not the same.

In the years since, precious little attention has been and is being devoted to the former eastern bloc countries in the Anglo press. We know most of the countries are now members of the European Union, but only a few have been allowed to enter the hallowed grounds of the eurozone.

One thing I did pick up on last year was the news that Hungary's PM Victor Orbán had thrown chemical, food and seed giant Monsanto out of the country, going as far as to plow under 1000 acres of land. Now, I have little patience for Monsanto, infamous for many products ranging from Agent Orange to Round-Up, nor for its ilk, from DuPont to Sygenta, all former chemical companies that have at some point decided they could sell more chemicals than ever before by applying them on and inside everyone's daily food. Patenting nature itself seems either unworthy of mankind or its grandest achievement. I don't care much for either one. So Orbán (who has a two-thirds majority in parliament, by the way) has my tentative support on this one.

This is from July 22, 2011, International Business Times:

Hungary Destroys All Monsanto GMO Maize Fields

In an effort to rid the country of Monsanto's GMO products, Hungary has stepped up the pace. This looks like its going to be another slap in the face for Monsanto. A new regulation was introduced this March which stipulates that seeds are supposed to be checked for GMO before they are introduced to the market. Unfortunately, some GMO seeds made it to the farmers without them knowing it.

Almost 1000 acres of maize found to have been grown with genetically modified seeds have been destroyed throughout Hungary deputy state secretary of the Ministry of Rural Development Lajos Bognar said. The GMO maize has been ploughed under, said Lajos Bognar, but pollen has not spread from the maize, he added.

Unlike several EU members, GMO seeds are banned in Hungary. The checks will continue despite the fact that seed traders are obliged to make sure that their products are GMO free, Bognar said. During their investigation, controllers have found Pioneer and Monsanto products among the seeds planted.

It's remarkably hard to find sources on this, ironically. It’s even harder, even more ironically, to find anything that mentions the Wikileaks report on the connections between the US government and the chemical/seed industry. Which is curious, in my opinion; it's not as if there's nothing newsworthy in the topic. Just about the only thing I could find was this from Anthony Gucciardi at NaturalSociety.com.

US to Start ‘Trade Wars’ with Nations Opposed to Monsanto, GMO Crops

The United States is threatening nations who oppose Monsanto’s genetically modified (GM) crops with military-style trade wars, according to information obtained and released by the organization WikiLeaks. Nations like France, which have moved to ban one of Monsanto’s GM corn varieties, were requested to be ‘penalized’ by the United States for opposing Monsanto and genetically modified foods. The information reveals just how deep Monsanto’s roots have penetrated key positions within the United States government, with the cables reporting that many U.S. diplomats work directly for Monsanto. [..]

Perhaps the most shocking piece of information exposed by the cables is the fact that these U.S. diplomats are actually working directly for biotech corporations like Monsanto. The cables also highlight the relationship between the U.S. and Spain in their conquest to persuade other nations to allow for the expansion of GMO crops. Not only did the Spanish government secretly correspond with the U.S. government on the subject, but the U.S. government actually knew beforehand how Spain would vote before the Spanish biotech commission reported their decision regarding GMO crops.

It doesn't look like Orbán and Hungary have a lot of support in their fight against Monsanto and GMO in general on the political front. But that still does little to explain the radio silence.

There was more international reporting earlier this year, when Orbán again faced up to two other major forces, in this instance the IMF and the EU. On January 1, the Hungarian parliament and president signed a new constitution into law. And it contains a number of things that the Troika members don't like. In particular, they are probably at odds with taxes levied on bank transactions, and especially central bank transactions. Not the kind of thing the IMF is likely to ever agree with. It all gets clad in protesting (the EU even threatens with courts) the independence under fire of the central bank, the media and other parts of Hungarian society.

The IMF and EU, like the tandem team of Monsanto and Washington before them, act like schoolyard bullies. It's become their standard MO, and it usually works. Portraits of Orbán as a fool, a reckless idiot and a dangerous populist, on par with that of Hugo Chavez or newly found international enemy Rafael Correa, are much easier to find than those links to Wikileaks Monsanto cables. It would be good to see Orbán continue to stand up to the IMF bullies, but he may not have that choice. They can simply financially bleed him dry, like they have so many other countries and their leaders. It's a time tested model.

So maybe we’ll have to do with a good and hearty chuckle, and enjoy his announcement yesterday:

Hungarian prime minister unfriends IMF on Facebook

Hungary's prime minister has long had a testy relationship with the International Monetary Fund — and on Thursday he used Facebook to unfriend the agency and reject its allegedly tough loan conditions.

Prime Minister Viktor Orban said in a video message on his official Facebook page that Hungary could not accept pension cuts, the elimination of a bank tax, fewer public employees and other conditions in exchange for an IMF loan that other officials have said could be about €15 billion ($18.9 billion). The IMF's list of conditions, Orban said, " contains everything that is not in Hungary's interests."

Orban's announcement took the markets by surprise, in part because just a day earlier he had said loan negotiations with the IMF and the European Union were going according to schedule and both sides were willing to reach an agreement. [..]

In late 2008, under a Socialist government, Hungary became the first EU country to receive an IMF-led bailout. The Orban government, however, decided not to renew the loan agreement in 2010 so it could implement its economic policies without IMF control. But the increasing weakness of the forint, the Hungarian currency, and investors' growing loss of trust in the country's economy made the government abruptly change its mind late last year, when it again sought IMF help.

Basically, what the IMF demands is what it has always demanded through the years from countries it lends money to: cut pensions, cut the public sector, cut benefits yada yada, and then privatize, open markets, and open financial systems, so international operating conglomerates can move in and divvy up the spoils – "create a more 'business friendly' environment to boost growth" -. The IMF is the poster child for disaster capitalism, no matter how you twist and turn it. And Orbán can see clearly what is being done to Greece, which is just around the corner from Hungary.

 

Hungary: Orban’s horror show

A “list of horrors”. That’s how Hungary’s prime minister Viktor Orbán described on Thursday the conditions given by the IMF / EU for a deal, via a video on his Facebook page. [..]

Orban blamed the “long list” of onerous conditions that had, supposedly, been leaked to Magyar Nemzet, a slavishly pro-government daily, on Wednesday. The list contains a number of Orbán’s most sacred political themes, including cuts in pensions, family allowances and transport perks, an increase in the age of retirement, the introduction of a property tax, the abolition of the bank and financial transaction taxes, and modifications to the flat-rate, personal income tax regime.

And here's a bit more:

 

Hungary PM rejects IMF/EU terms, hopes fade for deal

Hungary threw hopes for a new loan to prop up its sagging economy into disarray on Thursday as Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban rejected what he called unacceptable IMF conditions, crushing prospects for a fast agreement. Orban, in a video posted on his Facebook page, cited demands from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a raft of changes that he said were too high a price for Hungary to pay.

"From cutting pensions to reducing bureaucracy to scrapping the bank tax and the funds to be made available to banks, everything is in there that's not in Hungary's interest," Orban said. "The parliamentary group meeting (of the ruling Fidesz party) took the view, and I personally agree with it, that at this price, this will not work," he added. [..]

To reverse that momentum, Orban is pushing a 300 billion forint ($1.33 billion) job saving plan, partly funded by a new tax on central bank operations, a key sticking point in the IMF talks, which the European Central Bank has also criticised. [..]

"Junk"-rated Hungary faces a repayment hump in the next five quarters, with the equivalent of €4.6 billion euros falling due from its previous IMF/EU bailout alone.

It's enough of a David vs Goliath fight, or a Little Red Riding Hood vs the Wolf, to make one question the bullies. Now, I don't really know Victor Orbán, all I know is western media descriptions of him, not a very reliable source, and he could well be a bully himself. But I still like the Little Red Riding Hood story (and dislike Monsanto and the IMF) enough to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

And besides, it's as refreshing as it is high time to talk about something else than Greece or Spain. We'll have to get back to them soon enough, after Draghi's unlimited buying bailout boondoggle yesterday

Image: Buda Castle, Hungarian Parliament Building, Budapest

 


Home Forums Hungary Throws Out Monsanto AND The IMF

This topic contains 24 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  TruthSayer 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

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September 7, 2012 at 3:31 pm #8439

Raúl Ilargi Meijer

I don't know about you, but I would label my personal knowledge of Hungary as wanting, if not painfully incomplete. It's not an easy country t
[See the full post at: Hungary Throws Out Monsanto AND The IMF]

September 7, 2012 at 11:03 pm #5419

SteveB

Ilargi, any thoughts on how long that ECB boondoggle might last before falling apart? I’m guessing a few months, but this is new territory for my attention.

September 8, 2012 at 12:17 am #5420

Mouse

I’m a little disappointed with this article. Taking a position again GMO and the IMF (apparently) doesn’t make Orban a good guy as this fairytale narrative suggests.

The reason the stories are few and far between is mostly no one cares for Hungary, 10 million people and as you indicate a little linguistic island off of central europe. I’ve been living here the last four years and got a little closer to the country.

Since winning his two thirds majority Orban has rewritten the constitution and pretty much tied the hands of future governments. Some of his ideas and actions are appealing but the pattern of control, passing assets to a clique of close associates and rewarding friends is pretty familiar. If you want tedious details I can give you them or you can do a bit of research, there are some english language sources around while not all are balanced at least can give you some background.

Hungary is now a country where people are assaulted in the street for being, jewish, roma or gay, where fascists march in the center of Budapest on national holiday. The people are manipulated with stories of the enemies outside (code in many cases for jews), Mosanto, Tesco or IMF, maybe we have some shared enemies but I hope I never tempts me to see people like Orban as a friend.

Divide and rule is a game many parties play, there are not two sides here, there are many parties, not all wrong and not all right.

September 8, 2012 at 2:18 am #5422

Glennda

FYI
This just came to my email today. Interesting that Monsanto is so much of a Goliath with US backing. While I don’t think GMOs are necessarily a bad thing, the problem is the sneaky monopolistic style of Monsanto.

I don’t know if I’ll be going to this, but it’s note worthy that it’s a point of unification for the Occupy Movement.

(As far as the leader of Hungry goes, who knows? He may be a dictator with lots of cronyism going on, but he seems to have one thing right about the monopoly company and its supporters in the US and IMF.)

***

OCCUPY MONSANTO – Day of Action September 17 – Everywhere

(Some of us in the San Francisco Bay Area are planning on going to the action in Davis: http://occupy-monsanto.com/shutdown-monsanto-davis-california-600am-september-17-2012/ – If you don’t see an action near you, organize one yourself with the resources below)

http://occupy-monsanto.com/

Organize locally to take action for a decentralized occupation of Monsanto facilities around the world on September 17, 2012

Whether you like it or not, chances are Monsanto contaminated the food you ate today with chemicals and GMOs. Monsanto controls much of the world’s food supply at the expense of food democracy worldwide. This site is dedicated to empowering citizens of the world to take action against Monsanto during the week of September 17th, 2012.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 27, 2012

GCU Media Liaison: Adam Eidinger 202-744-2671
GMO@Occupy-Monsanto.com

At least 60 Protests to Target Makers of Genetically Engineered Foods on Anniversary of Occupy Movement

WORLDWIDE – An expanding network of concerned individuals known as Occupy Monsanto has emerged over the past 8 months staging numerous protests at companies connected to the global trade of genetically engineered foods, also known as GMOs. The network announced today that on September 17, 2012 protests will begin for an entire week in St. Louis, home of the Monsanto Corporation, and across the US including California where voters will decide if they will label GMOs this election and worldwide in Argentina, Canada, Germany, India, Philippines, and other countries where concern over GMO impact on the environment and human health is growing.

The protests will vary in size and nature but are unified in pushing back GMO food into the lab from which it came. An interactive map with times, dates and locations of the 60+ protests can be found at http://occupy-monsanto.com/genetic-crimes-unit/ .

Occupy Monsanto means to confront the industrial agriculture system head-on. Some protests could result in widespread arrests of people who choose to engage in non-violent civil disobedience. Despite the peaceful nature of these planned protests, organizers are concerned about surveillance of Occupy-Monsanto.com by the US Department of Homeland Security and law enforcement agencies worldwide. Nevertheless Occupy Monsanto protests will feature costumes made of bio-hazmat protective gear that can also protect against pepper spray from police who have routinely attacked occupy protests in the past year.

“There is something wrong when a chemical manufacturer, the same company who made Agent Orange, controls the US food supply,” says Jaye Crawford, a member of the Genetic Crimes Unit in Atlanta, Georgia that has planned a week of events. Info: http://occupy-monsanto.com/atlanta-gcu-schedule-of-events/ .

“Wall Street and the American political elite have underestimated and even ignored our potential to effect rational policy change on GMOs which would include labeling for GMOs and restrictions on GMO cultivation,” says Gene Etic an anti-GMO campaigner based in Washington, DC. “If Occupy Monsanto’s anti-GMO actions are successful, after September 17 the media and increasingly more voters will ask tough questions about these experimental GMO crops especially within the context of the Presidential election, as that office holds the power to determine American food policy,” says Etic.

“People are stirred by the evidence that GMO foods compromise human health,” says Rica Madrid, a member of the Genetic Crime Unit of Occupy Monsanto. “Politicians and their sponsoring corporations ignore public outcry over GMOs to protect huge profits over health. Since GMOs’ introduction to the food supply in the mid 1990′s, food allergies have expanded according to Center for Disease Control data,” says Madrid.

“By purchasing influence via massive campaign donations, Monsanto ensures the essential duties of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) are neglected. One example of this corporate coup is President Obama’s appointment of Michael Taylor, former Monsanto Vice-President and legal council for the chemical company, to head the FDA’s food safety efforts despite his obvious conflict of interest,” says Ariel Vegosen, a member of the Genetic Crimes Unit. She adds, “Monsanto is the biggest maker of genetically engineered crops so it must be stopped before it is too late to shift to healthy organic agriculture practices as a result of widespread genetic contamination by GMOs. ‘Coexistence’ as defined by the USDA of Organic and GMO crops is a myth.”

“At the US State Department it’s apparent Monsanto has duped leaders in Africa to ask the US for foreign aid in the form of GMO technology and equipment,” says Monsanto shareholder Adam Eidinger who last year walked from New York to the White House in Washington, DC with hundreds of other food activists to demand labeling of GMO foods. “The generous use of US tax dollars, endorsed by the likes of rock-star Bono and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a former legal council for Monsanto, is actually another taxpayer funded subsidy for Monsanto’s pesticide and herbicide hungry crops.”

Occupy Monsanto will be heard at the offices and facilities linked in the GMO food system. In St. Louis a major anti-GMO conference will take place in the same location as the ’12th International Symposium on GMO Safety.’ A lead organizer of the conference is Barbara Chicherio who believes, “‘Monsanto’s push to control agriculture and what people are eating poses a great threat not only to consumers in the US, but to farmers and communities throughout Latin America, Africa and Asia.” Info on the conference is at http://gmofreemidwest.org/ .

Media may arrange interviews with Occupy-Monsanto.com by contacting Adam Eidinger at 202-744-2671 or write to gmo@Occupy-Monsanto.com

Visit http://Occupy-Monsanto.com for more information and to see video and photos of protests from earlier this year. All images and video are available for free and unrestricted use by members of the media.

Step 1: Choose your target
There are hundreds of Monsanto facilities for your protest convenience. Pick your poison on our Facilities page…

Step 2: Form a plan
Do you want to make signs, banners or props? Will people dress in costumes? Are you bringing tents, noisemakers, media recording devices? Will you perform a chant, speech, or ceremony? There are so many ways to express your outrage at Monsanto’s devastation of our food, health, and environment, and many considerations…

Step 3: Take action during the week of September 17th, 2012
Join groups across the world for a global week of action at Monsanto facilities. Make this a week Monsanto will never forget as we unite with a single voice: OCCUPY MONSANTO!

September 8, 2012 at 9:31 am #5426

backwardsevolution

Looks like he’s really ticking the banking world off:

“Hungarians and others in Eastern Europe chose Swiss franc mortgages in the years leading up to the financial crisis because of their low interest rates. At the time, a Swiss franc could get 160 Hungarian forints, now its closer to 252.

Fearing defaults and the country’s exposure to foreign-currency debt, the government introduced a scheme that allows borrowers who make payments on time, the opportunity to pay a fixed rate of 180 Hungarian forint to a Swiss Franc. The catch? They only have till the end of the year to participate in the scheme, have to pay about 10% in interest and only have 60 days from the date of the application to borrow the funds or raise the money.

Earlier this year we reported that bankers were furious at Orban because the scheme would force banks to assume losses stemming from the difference between the artificial exchange rate of 180 Hungarian forint to a Swiss franc and the market rate. Austrian banks like UniCredit Bank Austria, Erste Group Bank and Raiffeisen Bank International are some lenders likely to take a hit.”

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-16/markets/30404676_1_swiss-franc-hungarian-prime-minister-forint

AND:

“Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán is set on making banks share the burden with borrowers. In an interview with Metropol (via the Budapest Business Journal), he said the era of bankers had ruined Hungary and Europe and that it was time to end the practice of making borrowers take the hit on losses and risks. He blamed banks for making people believe they could borrow without consequences and creating the illusion of constant access to cheap credit.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/hungary-economy-swiss-franc-loans-2011-9

He wants to make the banks share the burden with borrowers. What, some common sense, fairness?

Great article, Ilargi. You are right, they will fry Orban and his country.

Monsanto needs to be stopped. Good for Orban for kicking them the hell out.

September 8, 2012 at 10:42 am #5428

Raúl Ilargi Meijer

Ilargi, any thoughts on how long that ECB boondoggle might last before falling apart? I’m guessing a few months, but this is new territory for my attention.

I see people saying three months; don’t they always? It’s usually measured in days, this one might be a bit bigger, but the question remains the same: what happened to the debt? Well, nothing happened to it, it’s still there, and they’re adding more.

September 8, 2012 at 1:33 pm #5429

Anonymous

The USA has controlled the global monetary system, through control of a vital essential physical asset. OIL.
They dictate and control the price of oil and everyone(up to lately!!!!)
pays in dollars. this finances the wars.Through the printing of endless $.
The important issue is.
Oil itself is not the controlling mechinism.
THE PAYMENT IN DOLLARS IS.
This allows the USA to operate a type of global taxation system through inflation.
Due to China, Russia,Brazil,India etc. decision to bypass the dollar/oil as the preferred currency to trade in, means the USA is loosing its grip on their ability to skim, through a global tax /inflation $ oil payment.
My point is—I can only think of one other essential global physical asset which would allow a country to gain such global control and power SEED- SEED- SEED-
MONSANTO.
Start protecting your seeds everyone. Or go hungry or Hungarian! Orban is one smart man. Well done .

September 8, 2012 at 3:11 pm #5431

sculptor

I propose Hungary be renamed “Wellfedia”

September 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm #5433

Golden Oxen

Quote Ilargi “I see people saying three months; don’t they always? It’s usually measured in days, this one might be a bit bigger, but the question remains the same: what happened to the debt? Well, nothing happened to it, it’s still there, and they’re adding more.”

Sir, A catch 22 for sure, add more debt, to pay off older debt, in a system burdened and ruined by debt.

Is there not however a lessening in the Real value of the older debt by the inflationary impact of creating the new to purchase the old?
It may not boost any economies, but they sure are creating a torrent of something, debt, currencies, digital money, whatever type of fiat we wish to call it.
We all know what happens in the long run, but they have kept the ship from sinking in the short run, and it is most difficult to pin point it’s ending. My feeling is we need a US or German bond collapse, or a very powerful outbreak of inflation to stop it.

September 8, 2012 at 11:27 pm #5437

Jack

They definitely did right by throwing out Monsanto and the IMF.
This does not mean that everything else is good about them.

They let loose an axe murderer
http://www.armtown.com/news/en/yer/20120908/31265/
http://asbarez.com/105298/over-1000-attend-protest-against-safarov-release-and-pardon/

This makes the leaders of Hungary axe murderers

September 9, 2012 at 9:42 am #5442

pdjmoo

Great Article Raul..and thank you…insofar as some of your outstanding questions this may be of help to you:
YOUR FOOD, YOUR HEALTH: Latest on BiotechAg, GMOs, Pesticides, Chemicals, CAFOs, BigAg http://bit.ly/zI1qHF

September 9, 2012 at 12:37 pm #5443

Nassim

Jack,

That is a sorry story. I checked out the details and it would seem that the Azerbaijani side did not keep their deal with the Hungarians.

Anyway, he was locked up for 8 years by the Hungarians before they agreed to let him serve the rest of his sentence in his own country. I guess the Hungarians don’t know or care much about the Azaris and the sort of government they have.

In the UK, most murderers serve an average of 15 years. Please don’t think that I am condoning it in any way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov

Breivik, the guy who killed 77 and wounded 242 in Norway last year, can only be kept locked up for 21 years, I read somewhere.

September 9, 2012 at 9:21 pm #5445

TheTrivium4TW

Glennda post=5113 wrote: While I don’t think GMOs are necessarily a bad thing, the problem is the sneaky monopolistic style of Monsanto.

Hi Glennda, on what basis do you reach the conclusion that GMOs may not be a bad thing? Industry’s refusal to do meaningful human health studies indicates to me that they learned from their Agent Orange fiasco… maybe if they could have prevented Agent Orange health studies they still could be selling it, huh? Think of all those Agent Orange profits lost.

Thanks for posting the Occupy Monsanto information.

The big hitter is Pro 37 in CA – it is an initiative to force the labelling of GMO foods in CA. You’d think a company that was proud of their product would label it.

“If you put a label on genetically engineered food you might as well put a skull and crossbones on it.” – Norman Braksick, president of Asgrow Seed Co., a subsidiary of Monsanto, quoted in the Kansas City Star, March 7, 1994

Well, Norman Braksick, if you would do human health studies then people wouldn’t need to consider it toxic. Or is this your way of telling us you know it is toxic and don’t want the lemmings to find out?

‘The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance—it is the illusion of knowledge.’
- Daniel J. Boorstin

Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth.
– Ludwig Borne

“Real education must ultimately be limited to men who insist on knowing, the rest is mere sheep-herding.”
- Ezra Pound

September 9, 2012 at 9:35 pm #5446

TheTrivium4TW

Dublin post=5120 wrote: The USA has controlled the global monetary system, through control of a vital essential physical asset. OIL.

Hi Dublin, what is this USA of which you speak? I’m a US citizen and I have absolutely zero input into what my government does.

So it surely doesn’t refer to me as a citizen. In fact, I’ve never met anyone that has any real say in what our government does.

My son read a biography on Socrates. When I asked him what he learned about Socrates, he responded, “he thought a lot.”

I asked him what Socrates thought about.

“About words” was his response.

Smart guy, that Socrates.

My research makes it clear that the modern day Sophists use language in which to hide.

IMHO, USA is a bad term because it is too vague. More to the point, it is the Money Power that controls our government. They finance our politicians and they control our politicians. The real voter fraud is the fact you only get to pick between Big Finance Capital Puppet #1 and Big Finance Capital Puppet #2.

Or, as Vladimir Lenin put it, “the best way to control the opposition is to lead it.”

According to my research, Big Finance Capital is actually international in nature – they don’t know any boundaries for their Money Power club. If true, using the term USA is actually incorrect and very misleading.

My view is that this international money power cartel has effectively hijacked the government of the USA, not through the force of arms, mind you, but through the force of insight into how to manipulate public opinion (h/t to John Taylor Gatto), and is using our national resources, be it our blood, our money or our name, in order to exact an agenda that serves their interests.

One such interest is to wage economic war upon the vast majority of the USA outside their Money Power clique.

So when you use the term USA, it hides that this cartel is actually waging asymmetrical, Sun Tzu style Art of War on the USA itself!

Socrates’ wisdom to meditate on the meaning of words and how they are used is impressive, IMHO.

Concise language is very important. The social engineers realize this and they use it as a weapon to impoverish us.

September 9, 2012 at 9:42 pm #5447

Raúl Ilargi Meijer

Concise language is very important.

It’s high time you yourself took that to heart, Trivium.

September 10, 2012 at 7:30 am #5453

TheTrivium4TW

ilargi post=5138 wrote: Concise language is very important.

It’s high time you yourself took that to heart, Trivium.

Hi Ilargi, can you please point out some examples so I can be aware of situations that demand I be more concise?

For example, RE pointed out my use of the term Debt Dollar Tyranny was too narrow. He suggested “Debt Money Tyranny” was more true and accurate. I agreed, thanked RE and I use the better term now.

No big deal, no personal attacks, no nothing but sharing knowledge for the betterment of communicating important ideas.

TIA…

Your statement, as it stands, comes across as a personal attack rather than actually trying to communicate something constructive.

September 11, 2012 at 2:28 am #5458

CJ in VT

Just a quick comment as I start to read.

I was shocked to have found this post via a permaculture site. Not shocked because there’s some overlap between you and permaculture (as I’ve noted before) but shocked because I seem to miss many posts since you’ve switched from the old site. I rely on RSS and only seem to get “archives”. What am I doing wrong that I’m missing so many posts?

September 11, 2012 at 5:32 am #5462

John Day

I really enjoyed this post, and there was something that came up on Zero Hedge about the fascists in Greece, which made a good opening for the “Fascist Populists” in Hungary, so I tossed this in there pretty quick.
My (2nd from top) post with link to your story was just an intro to your story.
So far it got 44+ and 0_ arrows, which is really good for that neighborhood. Go Hungary, the new Iceland!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greek-neo-nazi-party-surges-third-polls-anti-bailout-syriza-back-top

September 11, 2012 at 11:23 am #5468

digging

If we look at the great Empires of the past before oil they controlled the most basic of energies…..FOOD.

They know they are going to loose thier energy control and are trying to gain control of the deeper and most imporant of all energies. The natural way the suns energy empowers all life on earth.

http://permaculturenews.org/2012/09/05/vandana-shiva-invites-us-to-act-for-seed-freedom/

Occupy the Seed

Digging

September 11, 2012 at 2:29 pm #5469

Petunia

I notice everyone thinks the US is who has caused this, but the USA is an occupied nation by its arch enemy, Israel, who has killed/murdered more Americans than all the Muslim nations put together, so Its Israel, working for the ROTHSCHILD INTERNATIONAL BANKERS WHO ARE DOING ALL THIS.

They have no loyalty to any nation, they use all nations to obtain their agenda, they are nothing more than a giant global mafia set of criminals, satanists and perverts. The USA citizens are as much a victim of this as global citizens, which we should turn our attention away from blaming each other and prepare in each country to go after the international criminal zionist khazar bankers. WW III WITH KHAZAR ZIONIST BANKERS. I like it…. much better than us killing each other.

September 12, 2012 at 3:06 am #5494

Jack

Petunia
When the Armenian’s go after justice and revenge they always get that.
These are the kind of people they are.

Artsakh – Nagorno Karabakh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3AdpgEYmeU&feature=related

here is another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJy_smL_vfY
Talat Pashan Pakhav Berlin

Talat was one of the banker kind

October 10, 2012 at 9:53 am #5941

Glennda

So here’s an interesting French judgment against Monsanto.

The horrifying part of the article mentions that this herbicide is still in use in the good ol’ US. :(

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/392439/20121009/monsanto-found-guilty-chemical-poisoning-landmark-case.htm#.UHT7SFErLQJ

“Monsanto Found Guilty of Chemical Poisoning in Landmark Case

A French farmer who can no longer perform his routine farming duties because of permanent pesticide injuries has had his day in court, literally, and the perpetrator of his injuries found guilty of chemical poisoning. The French court in Lyon ruled that Monsanto’s Lasso weedkiller formula, which contains the active ingredient alachlor, caused Paul Francois to develop lifelong neurological damage that manifests as persistent memory loss, headaches, and stuttering during speech.

Reports indicate that the 47-year-old farmer sued Monsanto back in 2004 after inhaling the Lasso product while cleaning his sprayer tank equipment. Not long after, Francois began experiencing lasting symptoms that prevented him from working, which he says were directly linked to exposure to the chemical. Since Lasso’s packaging did not bear adequate warnings about the dangers of exposure, Francois alleged at the time that Monsanto was essentially negligent in providing adequate protection for its customers.

To the surprise of many, the French court agreed with the claims and evidence presented before it, declaring earlier this year that “Monsanto is responsible for Paul Francois’ suffering after he inhaled the Lasso product … and must entirely compensate him.” The court is said to be seeking expert opinion on how to gauge Francois’ losses in order to determine precisely how much Monsanto will be required to compensate him in the case. “

October 10, 2012 at 3:14 pm #5945

Raúl Ilargi Meijer

Glennda,

Curious that IBTimes/Natural News carry that story this week. Reuters reported it on February 13 this year.

It’s also curious, I think, that there has been no follow-up anywhere that I can see over the past 8 months.

March 29, 2014 at 11:44 am #12011

TruthSayer

Dear misinformant Mouse!

The people who are being assaulted are mostly Hungarian, and are assaulted BY the jews, and gypsies. If you truly lived here, you would know that gypsies do murder strictly Hungarians each and every day, and they get away with it easily, since, as the leader of MAZSIHISZ said, they will use the gypsies to wreck genocide on Hungarians. :)

March 29, 2014 at 11:49 am #12012

TruthSayer

Dear Raúl Ilargi Meijer!

Please stop spreading the LIE (not false science, just blatant LIE) about Hungarian language having ANYTHING to do with Finnish. Thank you!
(That crap was actually thought up in Wien, so as to lower our nationalist -not nazi, but patriotic- feelings, and also to allow them to brainwash our young that our history is a lie and we’re basically just nobodies.
E-mail me if you would like to know more. :)

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