Apr 062012
 
 April 6, 2012  Posted by at 4:21 pm Finance
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Russell Lee Washed Up June 1939 “Near Webbers Falls, Muskogee County, Oklahoma. Sons of agricultural day laborer after washing up for dinner”

Most politicians, bureaucratic officials, business “leaders”, mainstream academics and media pundits in the world are stuck in a single-scale mindset. They approach every problem and issue from the perspective of a human being looking out into an increasingly inter-dependent global society. They take the structures of extensive trade, multinational corporations, global regulatory institutions, international treaties, etc. as irreversible truths that are embedded into the very fabric of existence.

Indeed, the complexity fueled by abundant energy and credit is an addictive force. No one wants to approach and “solve” a problem by back-tracking to simpler strategies than what came before them. That also includes many of the people living on the main streets of the developed world. It is almost heretical to suggest that we re-formulate our conception of national and global progress and embrace policies/initiatives that are aimed towards decentralization and simplification.

One thing people can do to start thinking in multiple scales is to adopt the perspectives of other living beings in our mind. I’m not asking anyone to start thinking like other beings, because that is rather difficult, if not impossible. What I am asking is for others to imagine how we, as human beings, would be viewing the world if we existed at their scales. Perhaps you become the member of an ant colony that views a small pond as a vast body of water to circumnavigate or a set of rocks as a sprawling mountain range.

 

 

Maybe you are a whale that must traverse many miles of ocean every day to acquire food, while relying on echoes instead of eyesight to know where you’re going. Different “scales” is typically synonymous with different sizes, but it can also include different modes of existence, forms of socioeconomic organization, etc. The point is to cycle through as many different scales of perspective as possible and not to get trapped within one. In doing so, we may come across answers to our daily problems that are outside of our scale-dependent boxes and otherwise elude us.

Perhaps with such a multi-scale perspective, the Eurozone Mafia would be less prone to confront any and all issues with more bank bailouts, more austerity for the masses, more complex and self-referential alphabet soup policy mechanisms (EFSF, ESM, LTRO, etc.) – i.e. more of the same old stuff that has one and only one goal in mind – to preserve the “too big to fail” financial system. The institutions of this system and the functions they provide are treated as a given; an inescapable machine that, if anything, must be tweaked into optimal performance.

Instead, they should see how this extravagant machine is destroying the economies and social fabric of an entire continent; how it is making life extremely difficult at the scale of individuals who are simply trying to navigate through the risk-infested waters and make it back in time for supper. Rather than endless rhetoric about European integration, fiscal compacts, economic “recovery” and the prospects of job creation, the Europeans and Americans need to hear about why all of those things are now part of a fundamentally broken paradigm that cannot be patched back together.

Structural unemployment is here with us to stay, and will not get better no matter how much cheap liquidity is pumped into the financial system or how much rhetoric is spewed out during the election season about “jobs programs”. The latest non-farm payroll report for March clearly shows that the unemployment situation in the U.S., as measured by long-term unemployment, underemployment and level of unemployment, is beginning to deteriorate even when the numbers are massaged and the economy is allegedly growing. Here is ZeroHedge on the rate of job creation needed to simply pull us back to where we were before the crisis:

US Needs To Generate 262K Jobs Each Month To Get Back To Breakeven

 

This is the latest tally: since the start of the Second Great Depression, the US has lost a total of 5.2 million nonfarm payroll jobs, beginning with 138 million jobs in December 2007, and printing at 132.8 million as of 90 minutes ago. So far so good. The problem, however is that the denominator in the equation is not fixed, and as everyone knows the US labor force, despite the ridiculous BLS data fudging, is growing in line with population, albeit at a slower pace. According to all non-partisan budget forecasters, each month the labor force should be adding 90,000 people. Which in turn means that since December 2007, the labor force has really grown by 4.6 million. Adding these two together leads to a 10 million job deficit. So what has to happen for these 10 million to get promptly put back into jobs, and for America to get back to the ~5% unemployment rate it boasted just as the credit bubble peaked? Nothing too crazy: the country just has to create 262,000 jobs every month for the remainder of Obama’s first, and now, by the looks of it, second term too. We are quite confident he can handle it.

 

 

The truth is that it is too late for these structural unemployment issues to be resolved at the scale of our national and global systems – they will persist no matter what anyone does. Therefore, we must accustom ourselves to a scale of society in which full and continuous employment is a luxury, and creative means of applying one’s skills/effort is a virtue. We must no longer think in terms of entering a general “workforce” and being defined by our career in perpetuity, but rather in terms of finding the cracks and crevices of society through which we can maneuver at any given time.

Instead of figuring out ways of putting up financial “firewalls” for Italy and Spain, and siphoning money from taxpayers/workers/pensioners to recapitalize the banks, our policymakers should be figuring out ways of insulating populations from the effects of the natural and inevitable downsizing of the global financial industry, which will include systemic bankruptcies, greatly reduced economic growth, high structural unemployment and social unrest. We must look to our local governments, organizations, businesses and neighbors that may have the ability to help our communities endure a paradigm shift of epic proportions.

The people in these communities need to hear that only those who adopt a flexible, multi-scale perspective will be able to physically and mentally prepare for the future in any meaningful way. Get unstuck from the mindset in which everything is viewed in the context of an ever-growing, technological society that provides entertainment and comfort to all of those within its borders, and start to embrace the possibility of viewing your world in an entirely novel way, at many different scales of resolution. It starts with a confrontation of and change in one’s own mentality and structures of thought, and it only spreads wider from there.

Home Forums Learning to Think in Multiple Scales

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April 6, 2012 at 4:21 pm #8566

ashvin

Russell Lee Washed Up June 1939 “Near Webbers Falls, Muskogee County, Oklahoma. Sons of agricultural day laborer after washing up for dinner” Most pol
[See the full post at: Learning to Think in Multiple Scales]

April 6, 2012 at 7:49 pm #2348

pipefit

“Perhaps with such a multi-scale perspective, the Eurozone Mafia would be less prone to confront any and all issues with more bank bailouts, more austerity for the masses,………..”

What would have them do? Now I’m a firm believer in the old adage ‘if you are in a failed strategy, do something different, even if you think it is wrong, because you KNOW what you currently are doing is wrong.’ But in their case, what?

I’m trying to take your advice and put myself in their shoes. They get GM worker (pre-B.K.) benefits, like a couple of months off at full pay, but they don’t want austerity? They must not think they are in B.K. So they want their cake and the ability to eat it too. Until Newtonian physics are rendered null and void, that is impossible.

Regarding your other comment, about things being reversible, I wonder if you think that applies to Chinese (or Viet Nam , Bangladesh, etc.) made garments/electronics sold in EU/USA. I’m sure that is reversible, once the dollar loses its World Reserve Currency status. So I think that is the first order of business, trying to figure out how to gracefully reverse that. The UK did it 80 years ago, why can’t we? Just the small matter of giving up an empire, lol.

April 6, 2012 at 11:03 pm #2352

jal

Learning to Think in Multiple Scales!!!!

Easy to say and achieved by very few.

Most of those who can have been hired by the squid.

Most everyone else who can are relegated to …

I can’t do anything about it so I don’t think about it.

April 7, 2012 at 1:50 am #2354

istt

When do you think the US will be impacted the way Greece and Spain are today? You talk of structural changes taking place. Can you be more specific? What do you see unfolding and in what time frame? I realize one cannot be exact but can you give a ballpark estimate?

April 7, 2012 at 1:55 am #2355

eugene

From reading most comments, watching TV, etc, I don’t see much of being able to wrap our heads around how the tens of millions living on 50K, let alone 20-30K, live. The ignorance re the invisible masses of Americans is staggering to say the least. I live in an area where the average family income is 35K so thoughts of wind power, solar power and all the rest of the “solutions” I commonly see may as well be on the moon. These people are going without medical care, food, etc. Buying a set of tires for the car is a major expense and we talk of electric cars when they are struggling to pay for a half worn out used one.

it is obvious to me that the vast majority of commenters and bloggers are living a standard of living far beyond the masses. I read a statement (MSN columnist) stating the increase in energy costs was having minimal impact on the economy. What planet is this guy living on?

I find myself becoming ever more disconnected from the world I read and watch. Things are so abstract I can’t relate. I, too, have trouble wrapping my head around things but it’s the modern world I can’t relate to.

April 7, 2012 at 3:51 am #2361

TheTrivium4TW

>>Perhaps with such a multi-scale perspective, the Eurozone Mafia would be less prone to confront any and all issues with more bank bailouts, more austerity for the masses, more complex and self-referential alphabet soup policy mechanisms (EFSF, ESM, LTRO, etc.) – i.e. more of the same old stuff that has one and only one goal in mind – to preserve the “too big to fail” financial system. The institutions of this system and the functions they provide are treated as a given; an inescapable machine that, if anything, must be tweaked into optimal performance.< <

Hi Ash,

The people at the top know exactly what they are doing. The people who set up the Federal Reserve Debt Dollar Tyranny Trojan Horse DESIGNED it to do EXACTLY what it is doing today.

This is the book cover of a 1912 book…

http://www.libertariannews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/fedsquid.jpg

“The new law will create inflation whenever the trusts want inflation. From now on depressions will be scientifically created.” (Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, after the passage of the Federal Reserve act 1913.)

“Under the Federal Reserve Act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientific one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation.” (Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, The Economic Pinch, 1921.)

“I have the Confederacy before me, and the bankers behind me, and for my country I fear the bankers most.” Abraham Lincoln.

Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!
~Andrew Jackson

The bank, Mr. Van Buren, is trying to kill me, but I will kill it.
~Andrew Jackson

“The brave man inattentive to his duty, is worth little more to his country, than the coward who deserts her in the hour of danger.”
~Andrew Jackson

Look who “the bankers” put on your $5 bill and your $20 bill.

It’s a big joke to these criminals and they prey upon the ignorance that they so confidently believe can’t be overcome en masse.

maybe these crooks are right, maybe they are wrong, but I’m standing up or going down fighting these demons to the end.

Ash, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

They know. This is their plan.

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debt.”
~Henry Ford

“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
~David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 405

“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities (Obama, Romney, O’Reilly, Maddow, Fareed, etc…) exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
~ Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic Era

Manipulate and control. Manipulate and control. Manipulate and control. They tell you straight out what they do. Zbigniew is a hard core insider and has been for the last 30-40 years or more.

“Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order . Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government.”
~Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

They KNOW. But they don’t want the people to know.

“War is all about deception.”
~Sun Tzu

“The best warriors never have to fight.”
~Sun Tzu

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html

“The ultimate skill is to take up a position where you are formless.”
~Sun Tzu

They criminal financiers are orchestrating the highest art of war against the world’s populations… and they aren’t nice people.

They kill more people every year than Hitler killed Germans in his entire reign as “German liberator from the terrorists” and grand defender of the “National Socialist German Workers Party” or, if you prefer the shortened version, NAZIs.

They KNOW!

April 7, 2012 at 3:57 am #2362

TheTrivium4TW

istt post=1959 wrote: When do you think the US will be impacted the way Greece and Spain are today? You talk of structural changes taking place. Can you be more specific? What do you see unfolding and in what time frame? I realize one cannot be exact but can you give a ballpark estimate?

istt, timing is a fool’s game. I know. ;-)

I watch the media intently. Normally, they highlight the positive all the time.

Lately, the media has been used to spread negativity. I think this might be an indication TPTB are looking for a turn in the market (they play it both ways).

People wonder how the magazines invariably pin the top with a “too the moon” piece or the pin the bottom with a “stocks are dead” piece.

What they don’t understand is that the insiders use those covers precisely because they want to get every “sucker” in or out so they can change the direction of the market.

It’s like Hank Paulson saying that nonsense about the economy being stronger than he’d ever seen it in 2007 – he knew full well it was a bubble and he was trying to goose the last people he could to hang themselves with credit.

These people are demons.

April 7, 2012 at 5:31 am #2364

Golden Oxen

Let’s not get carried away with whales and ants, although most of what is said about different perspectives is certainly true. We have a lack of respect for our fellow citizens, and a loss of morality and self reliance to blame for this current state of affairs. Simple enough and ugly enough.

April 7, 2012 at 5:42 am #2365

Golden Oxen

@eugene I hear you loud and clear eugene, great post.

April 7, 2012 at 1:29 pm #2372

ashvin

istt post=1959 wrote: When do you think the US will be impacted the way Greece and Spain are today? You talk of structural changes taking place. Can you be more specific? What do you see unfolding and in what time frame? I realize one cannot be exact but can you give a ballpark estimate?

I see the US reaching levels of unemployment and public debts (in the eyes of the bond markets) similar to those of Greece and Spain in about 2 years for the former and 5 years for the latter (ballpark estimates). Spain obviously hasn’t reached Greek in terms of public debts/deficits yet, but I believe they will get there within 1-2 years. Youth unemployment in the US is already very high, but still nowhere close to the 50% we see in Greece/Spain. We will catch up rather quickly, IMO, once the destruction of debt accelerates again (as opposed to just increasing at a flat rate). That debt destruction will most likely be triggered by financial contagion spreading from Europe to US banks over the next year, leading to widespread panic and asset liquidations, which forces large corporations into insolvency and bankruptcy. The largest banks will most likely be bailed out again, but it’s difficult to gauge how and with what money, as well as the American public’s reaction to all of it (it probably won’t be so much different from that of the Greeks and Spaniards, although maybe a bit subdued at first).

April 7, 2012 at 1:59 pm #2374

Golden Oxen

@ Ashvin I am hoping and expecting gold to make an appearance somewhere in this period you write about; as an anchor or stabilizer, being the historic asset of last resort. Most likely in the form of a gold backed bond or currency, perhaps both, to restore public confidence in the confetti.

April 7, 2012 at 4:59 pm #2385

backwardsevolution

From Carroll Quigley’s “Tragedy and Hope” – 1966:

“There does exist … an international Anglophile network … which we may identify as the Round Table Groups. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960′s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected … to a few of its policies … but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.”

And:

“The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences.”

http://www.wanttoknow.info/articles/quigley_carroll.tragedy_hope_banking_money_history.shtml#quote2

THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE DOING.

April 7, 2012 at 5:02 pm #2386

TheTrivium4TW

Golden Oxen post=1979 wrote: @ Ashvin I am hoping and expecting gold to make an appearance somewhere in this period you write about; as an anchor or stabilizer, being the historic asset of last resort. Most likely in the form of a gold backed bond or currency, perhaps both, to restore public confidence in the confetti.

Golden Oxen, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

The money changer criminals who have rigged the monetary system with Weapons of Mass Debt also control the majority of the gold. They’ve used a gold backed currency to beat down the people for ages.

As Thomas Edison told the New York times, “Gold and money are separate things, gold is the trick mechanism by which you can control money. That is the root of all evil.”

It’s not WHAT backs our money, it’s WHO controls its quantity.

As Vladimir Lenin said, the best way to control the opposition is to lead it.

Mises was funded by the Rockefeller Foundation… They saw an angle in promoting his views.

April 7, 2012 at 5:08 pm #2387

backwardsevolution

@ Golden Oxen: “Let’s not get carried away with whales and ants, although most of what is said about different perspectives is certainly true.”

To me, when we get “carried away” and settle into a box is when we DO NOT SEE the whales and the ants. I don’t mean environmentally, but how their systems work.

April 7, 2012 at 5:31 pm #2389

backwardsevolution

In deer/reindeer populations and wolves, what happens when we get rid of the wolves (regulators, the bond market)? Who polices the ones who get too far out front (the big risk-takers), or the ones who straggle too far behind?

Where are the wolves?

April 7, 2012 at 5:59 pm #2390

ashvin

backwardsevolution post=1990 wrote: THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE DOING.

My article wasn’t meant to suggest anything about what the “Eurozone mafia” knows or doesn’t know about how their policies are affecting everyone else and where they are leading Europe. We know for certain that they know what policies they are in favor of, and we can be pretty certain that they know how those policies almost exclusively benefit the corporate banking elite, since it’s pretty difficult to ignore when you are that close to the process.

Beyond that, I don’t think we can say that every single person involved knows exactly what he/she is doing or is a part of. A small minority of coordinated Eurocratic elites need the active complicity/support and ignorance of a much broader network of politicians, bureaucrats, officials, civil servants, private investors, etc. These are the people who could do well for themselves and for others by adopting completely different perspectives at multiple scales, because they will eventually be screwed over just as badly as everyone else by the policies they are helping to implement.

With regards to Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope, I would once again say that we must also take note of his own comments about how others have interpreted what he wrote in that epic book (following quotes are from his website).

None Dare Call It Conspiracy, using Quigley’s data, attributed to the Round Table Group a lust for world domination. Its sympathies were pro-Communist, anti-Capitalist, said the Birch Society book.

“They thought Dr. Carroll Quigley proved everything.” Quigley says. “For example, they constantly misquote me to this effect: that Lord Milner (the dominant trustee of the Cecil Rhodes Trust and a heavy in the Round Table Group) helped finance the Bolsheviks. I have been through the greater part of Milner’s private papers and have found no evidence to support that.

“Further, None Due Call It Conspiracy insists that international bankers were a single bloc, were all powerful and remain so today. I, on the contrary, stated in my book that they were much divided, often fought among themselves, had great influence but not control of political life and were sharply reduced in power about 1931-1940, when they became less influential than monopolized industry.”

And this,

“Skousen’s book (The Naked Capitalist) is full of misrepresentations and factual errors,” Professor Quigley said. “He claims that I have written of a conspiracy of the super-rich who are pro-Communist and wish to take over the world and that I’m a member of this group. But I never called it a conspiracy and don’t regard it as such. “I’m not an ‘insider’ of these rich persons,” Dr. Quigley continued, “although Skousen thinks so. I happen to know some of them and liked them, although I disagreed with some of the things they did before 1940.”

Skousen also claims, Dr. Quigley believes, the influential group of Wall Street financiers still exists and controls the country. “I never said that,” Dr. Quigley said flatly. “In fact, they never were in a position to ‘control’ it, merely to influence political events.”

The influential Wall Street group of which he wrote about 25 pages in Tragedy and Hope ceased to exist about 1940, Dr. Quigley claims. He also faults Skousen for saying that Tragedy and Hope’s intention was, in Dr. Quigley’s words, “to reveal anything, least of all a purely hypothetical controversy. My only desire was to present a balanced picture of the 70 years from 1895-1965. The book is based on more than 25 years of research.”

April 7, 2012 at 6:37 pm #2392

backwardsevolution

Ash – “These are the people who could do well for themselves and for others by adopting completely different perspectives at multiple scales, because they will eventually be screwed over just as badly as everyone else by the policies they are helping to implement.”

Totally agree with you there. They know not what they do; they need to step back from the situation. Most likely they got in the positions they did because they were conforming types, obedient, and totally bought into the current belief system. They don’t see the danger ahead of them.

As for Dr. Quigley, he may have said that the influential Wall Street group ceased to exist about 1940, but I’ll bet, if he were alive today, he would surely say they took a deep breath and got resuscitated around the Thatcher/Reagan period, were nursed back to health by the Clinton administration, and that they ARE presently in control of the country, again.

April 7, 2012 at 7:00 pm #2393

ashvin

backwardsevolution post=1998 wrote: As for Dr. Quigley, he may have said that the influential Wall Street group ceased to exist about 1940, but I’ll bet, if he were alive today, he would surely say they took a deep breath and got resuscitated around the Thatcher/Reagan period, were nursed back to health by the Clinton administration, and that they ARE presently in control of the country, again.

Agreed. It has always been a push and pull dynamic between the working class and the owner class, and since the late 60s, early 70s, the latter has shoved just about everyone out of the way.

April 7, 2012 at 7:03 pm #2394

Candace

Skousen also claims, Dr. Quigley believes, the influential group of Wall Street financiers still exists and controls the country. “I never said that,” Dr. Quigley said flatly. “In fact, they never were in a position to ‘control’ it, merely to influence political events.”

I think you missed the quote above when writing the quote below.

As for Dr. Quigley, he may have said that the influential Wall Street group ceased to exist about 1940, but I’ll bet, if he were alive today, he would surely say they took a deep breath and got resuscitated around the Thatcher/Reagan period, were nursed back to health by the Clinton administration, and that they ARE presently in control of the country, again.

Perhaps he would say ” they were resuscitated and currently greatly influence political events. “

April 7, 2012 at 7:10 pm #2396

Golden Oxen

@ TheTrivium4TW They lost control of the gold market nearly half a century ago when Nixon gave the finger to the French. If you prefer bankster created credit and fiat that is certainly your choice. Some like myself, long for a return to the sound, honest money of integrity. Your accusation of Von Mises being a promoted stooge of the Rockefeller Foundation is absurd. Do you place Hayek, Menger, Rothbard, in the same camp?

April 7, 2012 at 7:41 pm #2399

jal

Did you find a meeting place where all of these conspirators get together to finalize their plots.

No???

Then try this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Club

A number of past membership lists are in public domain,[5] but modern club membership lists are private. Some prominent figures have been given honorary membership, such as Richard Nixon and William Randolph Hearst. Members have included some U.S. presidents (usually before they are elected to office), many cabinet officials, and CEOs of large corporations, including major financial institutions. Major military contractors, oil companies, banks (including the Federal Reserve), utilities, and national media have high-ranking officials as club members or guests. Many members are, or have been, on the board of directors of several of these corporations; however, artists and lovers of art are among the most active members. The club’s bylaws require ten percent of the membership be accomplished artists of all types (composers, musicians, singers, actors, lighting artists, painters, authors, etc). Artistic members are admitted after passing a stringent audition demonstrating their talent.

April 7, 2012 at 7:52 pm #2401

backwardsevolution

Candace – “Perhaps he would say ” they were resuscitated and currently greatly influence political events. “

“Influence” is way too mild a word, like saying a punch is a slap, a slap is a wink. They had a windfall in their engineered boom, and they’re busy engineering now. To “engineer” is to exert some control over/to steer, because you are manufacturing.

No, there’s more than just influence going on.

April 7, 2012 at 8:21 pm #2404

Candace

I was not commenting on what you feel is going on.  I was commenting on your characterization of what Quigley would say.  Clearly he stated that they influenced events in the past.  The effects of the influence they wielded then are clearly similar to the effects of their influence now, therefore I believe you are putting words in Quigley’s mouth to say that he would say they are in control of events at this time.   

I am disagreeing with your appeal to Quigley’s writing to support your premise.  He clearly did not agree with the premise of control rather than influence in the past, so it is in correct to state that he would characterize the present as a state of control rather than influence.

I feel that that is the difference between the way that some people read history.  If an historian says something happened most of the time, that gets conflated into 100% of the time.

I am wary of the way some commenters on this thread wish to demonize groups labelled “bankers” or “elites”.  If enough hatred gets going,how long will it be before someone who is educated or wears glasses is an elite?  I think there are events in humanities recent past that shows how dangerous that can be.

Candace

April 7, 2012 at 9:41 pm #2407

Anonymous

I’d gladly denounce criminal oligarchs for their deeds when no further blame can be allocated to my person. I find it helpful to remember that clustered sociopathy and associated subgroups of bankers, financiers and politicians, comprising less than 1% of the population, are directly responsible for 15%-20% of all our problems, but probably no more than that.

Nothing unreal exists in a gravitational field,
whereas unreal things may exist in an electrodynamic field.

April 7, 2012 at 11:17 pm #2416

backwardsevolution

Candace – “If an historian says something happened most of the time, that gets conflated into 100% of the time.”

So because Quigley said that they “influenced” events in the past, he’d say it again? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly people like Bill Black and Janet Tavakoli believe there’s more than just influence going on. They call it “control fraud”.

“I am wary of the way some commenters on this thread wish to demonize groups labelled “bankers” or “elites”. If enough hatred gets going,how long will it be before someone who is educated or wears glasses is an elite? I think there are events in humanities recent past that shows how dangerous that can be.”

Wow, that’s a leap. You’re using your own argument, that it must happen 100% of the time.

So what, we just do nothing? We look the other way? Make excuses for their behaviour? Don’t go after them because that might lead to another French Revolution? Deregulate some more, just so it doesn’t appear we’re demonizing them?

Come on! Sometimes you have to stand back – really far back – and call a spade a spade!

April 8, 2012 at 12:00 am #2419

Candace

I suppose my pointing out that “wary” doesn’t mean that I think something will automatically happen, but that I think it is something that could happen, and that I and others should be cautious in how we procede.

Realistically speaking if we are to do away with the elite 1% then we will have to do away with my sisters and their families since they both make over 35k a year per family member. After all anyone who makes over 35K per individual is in the top 1% wealth braket of the world.

I’m not on board with that.

Influencing whether or not someone is prosecuted for fraud in the realestate market is not the same as controlling all political events. We still have congress members caught and prosecuted for accepting bribes. To me that says influence not control.

Candace

April 8, 2012 at 1:50 am #2426

TheTrivium4TW

Golden Oxen post=2002 wrote: @ TheTrivium4TW They lost control of the gold market nearly half a century ago when Nixon gave the finger to the French. If you prefer bankster created credit and fiat that is certainly your choice. Some like myself, long for a return to the sound, honest money of integrity. Your accusation of Von Mises being a promoted stooge of the Rockefeller Foundation is absurd. Do you place Hayek, Menger, Rothbard, in the same camp?

Hi Golden,

I do not prefer Debt Dollar Tyranny. Your logical fallacy of choice is called False Dilemma.

There is a reason logical fallacy is so dangerous – it leads to false conclusions.

You also used a Straw Man logical fallacy when you claimed I think Mises was a “stooge.”

I never said that. I suggest you go back and read what I actually said.

BTW, I DO NOT think Mises was a stooge of the Rockefellers, which is why I didn’t say that.

I do understand he had no problem moving to America and taking Rockefeller Foundation cash.

Again, you should focus on the meat of what I actually said… it isn’t what backs the currency it is WHO controls its quantity.

The idea that leaving cold, hard criminals in charge and backing money with gold is a great idea… to the Central Bankster criminals.

World Bank chief calls for new gold standard

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2010-11-07/economy/30806200_1_new-gold-world-bank-robert-zoellick

The social engineers are masters of correlation posing as causation. If I were them, I’d orchestrate a crisis that would essential trigger and correlate the collapse of the system. The average sheeple would think the correlation was actually causation as the media would sell this to no end.

The solution may well be a “hard” gold backed currency… which will then usher in the societal asset stripping deflationary bust the bankster want in order to turn their wealth into ownership of everyone else’s stuff.

I don’t care how much gold you think you have, it probably isn’t enough to last long when you have to give it up and their is no real way to earn more. Even if you do, 95% of society won’t… and I’m no narcissist, so I care about the other 95%, too.

I’m not trying to “insult your girlfriend,” as it were – really.

I’m trying to discuss data points.

How many asset stripping periods were there under a gold backed currency?

Did you know that Benjamin Franklin thought the root cause of the Revolutionary War was King George demanding a gold backed currency?

Yes, TPTB stripped that little nugget out of the history books – you aren’t supposed to know it. It was all about the price of tea… that’s the “establishment’s” narrative…

How Benjamin Franklin Made New England Prosperous

http://21stcenturycicero.wordpress.com/fraud/how-benjamin-franklin-made-new-england-prosperous/

Again…

As Thomas Edison told the New York times, “Gold and money are separate things, gold is the trick mechanism by which you can control money. That is the root of all evil.”

Go ahead and demand that the banksters install what Edison said was a “trick mechanism” and “root of all evil.”

It is such because only very few, incorrigibly criminal and corrupt people control the vast majority of the god and, under a gold standard, “they who have the most gold rules.”

And don’t think your gold makes you safe. TPTB can now kill you and your family and take your “gold money” for themselves – and they don’t need any evidence, just the “nod” from their financed and promoted “dictator puppet.”

No standard will work until citizens wake up and kick out the criminals parasites at the top. A gold standard didn’t stop the Great Depression nor the myriad of depression before that time.

Consider dropping the “fallacy” and zero in on the “logical.”

April 8, 2012 at 1:58 am #2428

TheTrivium4TW

Candace post=2025 wrote: We still have congress members caught and prosecuted for accepting bribes. To me that says influence not control.
Candace

Congress members are servants to the oligarch financial class.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting these people have God-like powers and control.

But they do have the power to set up systems that produce certain results over wide areas and longer time frames.

The real bad folks are what I refer to as “The Architect Class.”

Who played architect to this criminal system? Not the 1%. They are just successful in it. Maybe the 0.01% or less. Maybe 0.001% – and many of them benefit as “family and friends” with no real power to create systems that impact us all.

Demonic systems. Not the horned “demon,” but the “demon” that destroys you and your community without you even knowing it is there.

April 8, 2012 at 2:06 am #2429

TheTrivium4TW

Gravity post=2013 wrote: I’d gladly denounce criminal oligarchs for their deeds when no further blame can be allocated to my person. I find it helpful to remember that clustered sociopathy and associated subgroups of bankers, financiers and politicians, comprising less than 1% of the population, are directly responsible for 15%-20% of all our problems, but probably no more than that.

Nothing unreal exists in a gravitational field,
whereas unreal things may exist in an electrodynamic field.

Hi Gravity,

I think Debt Dollar tyranny’s 100% guaranteed national bankruptcy is well north of 15-20% of our problems.

In fact, when it occurs, as it must with 100% certainty (unless the system is radically changes, but they won’t let that happen without a brutal fight), people will think it is near 100% of their problems.

Having said that, there is some “baby” in the idea that you are expressing and it should not get thrown out.

The most frustrating thing to me is that the crimes inflicted, with full knowledge and forethought, still required the *complicity* of the population to work effectively.

Granted, it was a chemically hit, miseducated, pharmacologically manipulated, propaganda saturated populace.

The social engineers know how to appeal to society’s narcissism and we eventually fall right into the same trap every single time.

So, yeah, we have to consent to being tricked and brutalized, but that brutalization will eventually be all most people can think about. We aren’t there yet, but that’s just like a bullet in mid flight just before it hits its intended target right between the eyes.

April 8, 2012 at 2:13 am #2430

TheTrivium4TW

backwardsevolution post=2007 wrote: Candace – “Perhaps he would say ” they were resuscitated and currently greatly influence political events. “

“Influence” is way too mild a word, like saying a punch is a slap, a slap is a wink. They had a windfall in their engineered boom, and they’re busy engineering now. To “engineer” is to exert some control over/to steer, because you are manufacturing.

No, there’s more than just influence going on.

Absolutely!

Influence doesn’t get 7,700 tons of heroin shipped from financial oligarch controlled Afghanistan… control gets it done.

Not just once, but year after year after year.

Influence isn’t helping Corzine or keeps criminal prosecuations from occurring at Wachovia due to $10s of billions in drug cartel plane running and money laundering.

Or JP Morgan running Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi Scheme and preventing prosecution when they bribe county officials and “competitors.”

That’s C-O-N-T-R-O-L.

Not God like control where everyone knows. But enough systemic control to achieve their main objectives like controlling the world’s drug supply and keeping their major criminal fronts from prosecution.

Oh, I forgot the two biggest accomplishments…

1. Keeping Debt Dollar Tyranny out of the public consciousness and off the media and out of the education system for 100 years running… and demonizing anyone who told the truth about it.
2. Covering up for the criminal bubble that will lead to the criminal bust – dead ahead.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3324744/wmdebt-graph-3-79k?tr=77

And yes, this is a conspiracy you can prove for yourself. Verify Section 2A of the Federal Reserve Act and call your local media to explain how the Federal Reserve criminally broke the Section 2A of the law and that they’ve lied about it for 25 years running (the mandate is singular, not dual!)… the biggest story in the world… the Fed criminally blows the worlds biggest bubble that will invariably lead to the world’s biggest but…

AND NOBODY WILL TOUCH IT.

But you might get your name added to a list.

That’s C-O-N-T-R-O-L.

Joe Banister, a former IRS insider, learned all about C-O-N-T-R-O-L… the Feds trumped up charges against Banister because he knew the truth about the fraud that is the IRS.

April 8, 2012 at 2:17 am #2431

TheTrivium4TW

ashvin post=1995 wrote: Beyond that, I don’t think we can say that every single person involved knows exactly what he/she is doing or is a part of. A small minority of coordinated Eurocratic elites need the active complicity/support and ignorance of a much broader network of politicians, bureaucrats, officials, civil servants, private investors, etc. These are the people who could do well for themselves and for others by adopting completely different perspectives at multiple scales, because they will eventually be screwed over just as badly as everyone else by the policies they are helping to implement.

Agree 100%.

Apparently, they believe the lie they will be taken care of by the Debt Dollar Tyrants and their underlings.

April 8, 2012 at 2:19 am #2432

backwardsevolution

Candace – first of all, nobody is talking about “doing away” with anyone. I’d never be part of that, and I don’t know where you got that from.

Secondly (and correct me if I’m wrong), but 35K does not put you even close to the top 1%. Add another zero. It is the 0.01% who really make the money.

I’m not against anyone making money (I’ve done so). I’m against fraud, corruption, opacity, changing rules when it suits them, offloading bad assets onto the backs of taxpayers, artificially suppressing interest rates, propping up assets, etc. Then they have the audacity to speak of the “free market”.

Most of your Congress is bought and paid for.

April 8, 2012 at 2:31 am #2433

TheTrivium4TW

backwardsevolution post=2038 wrote: Candace – first of all, nobody is talking about “doing away” with anyone. I’d never be part of that, and I don’t know where you got that from.

Secondly (and correct me if I’m wrong), but 35K does not put you even close to the top 1%. Add another zero. It is the 0.01% who really make the money.

I’m not against anyone making money (I’ve done so). I’m against fraud, corruption, opacity, changing rules when it suits them, offloading bad assets onto the backs of taxpayers, artificially suppressing interest rates, propping up assets, etc. Then they have the audacity to speak of the “free market”.

Most of your Congress is bought and paid for.

$35k puts on in the top 4.62% of the world’s population by wealth per…

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

It says $47,500 is the divider line between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.

The baddest actors, by far, are the system architects the engineered the likes of the “profit making psychopath” corporate structure and Debt Dollar Tyranny.

I wouldn’t be surprised if less than 100 people had control influence over these systemic structures.

April 8, 2012 at 2:48 am #2436

backwardsevolution

Candace – my post got lost, so I’ll try again. First of all, I would never want to “do away” with anyone. I’m not talking about that.

Secondly, anyone making 35K is not in the top 1%, not even close. Try adding another zero. The top 0.01% are the ones who make the really big money.

Candace, I am not against anyone making money (I’ve done so too). There are many, many good citizens who make lots of money, legitimately. I’m talking about fraud, corruption, opacity, changing rules when it suits them, offloading bad assets onto the backs of the taxpayers, artificially suppressing interest rates, selling assets that they knew were bad to unsuspecting investors, etc. I could go on and on.

Bernie Madoff and a few others took the fall. They were just the very tip of the iceberg.

All central banks are acting in concert (whether they’ll be successful is another story). There is definitely engineering and top-down control. We shall see how it plays out.

April 8, 2012 at 3:40 am #2440

Supergravity

I’ve had to reconfigure my view of the structure of reality in recent years, as I observed some phenomenon which my previous worldview could not account for.
I now run several parallel world models, some of which contain incompatibilities concerning meta-narratives.
I might include those outlandish narratives where transphasic orgone leeches inhabit human beings to feed off fear, if such notions could explain observable phenomenon better than baseline realities. Never had a use for the reptoids so far to explain anything, but the universe is expansive enough to incorporate such realities, providing the physical laws would not disallow it.
I use most of the economic content presented by outlets as TAE for refining models of socioeconomic reality based on matter/energy flows and human behavior, but I’ll also incorporate Infowars material, fact-based conspiratorial subsets, as I’ve found those criminological narratives have unique predictive function for some events. Alex Jones did predict 9/11 two months before, but not by his vast knowledge of markets.

I discovered the existence of the mystery schools in 2007, which was of an institutional type I couldn’t classify. I learned of freemasonry and occult hierarchies. I had never encountered their techniques of memetic induction and was suprised that an institutional structure of secret societies, seemingly embedded in the history of civilization, could be so inconspicuous and unknown to me.
The occult ‘sciences’ contain more esoteric data than can be assimilated in a lifetime, but I didn’t think much of the philosophical meta-geometries and considered the various institutional manifestations to be a racket.
Apparently, the mystery racket is the underlying foundation of most organised religion, the ritual process of initiation greatly accelerated the progagation of specialised urban skillsets along the geometry of hierarchy and may have consolidated oligarchy as a dominant form of rule.

Then in 2008, when Paulson unveiled the financial abyss in the sight of congress, I saw things happen in those weeks which I though were impossible. I have since constructed a modular worldview containing parallel conspiratorial and esoteric meta-narratives to account for organisational patterns which are not logically placeable in financial profit mechanisms alone.

Financial oligarchy does exhibit some abberant ideological components which allign with the known organisational workings of occult hierarchies and esoteric knowledge, and don’t seem to fit in anywhere else. Hence the illuminist symbolism on the dollar bill, there’s no other explanation than that parties involved with the monopoly on money are inspired by this body of knowledge. A symbol like the allseeing eye orginates by memetic induction of classic esoteric archetypes and has no other known artistic source.

If one were searching for some grand overarching conspiratorial meta-narrative originating in the growth of cities and subtly influencing or controlling the economotive development of urban civilization, the institutional manifestations of the mystery schools would be the only possible candidate to allow for the organisational framework required for a multimillenial continuity of agenda.
I don’t see another way to account for any proposed coherency of oligarchical purpose spanning the lifetime of a dozen empires, if such an agenda could exist. Some occult historians seem to reference a purposeful political narrative of considerable antiquity concering the mysteries, but they could be full of it.

For most of the nefarious plotting and small-scale scheming the usual financial motivations will do, interlaced with the complex socioeconomic reality of urban civilization and its emergent behaviors, not requiring an institutional structure or conscious plan to organise self-similar behavior in many people at once. I also use a theory of clustered sociopathy to account for unusual criminal coherency in the financial superstructure and in government, asserting that a disproportionate number of executives, politicians, mediacrats and bureacrats are professional psychopaths, and that their insanity is a self-selective institutional property.

April 8, 2012 at 5:29 am #2444

Reverse Engineer

The problem with scaling down, or REVERSE ENGINEERING society to work again on older systems is that the population grew too much during the period of cheap energy to scale back without also scaling back the population size.

A simple example would be Container ships which move goods off boats i large quantities quite rapidly using Cranes and Forklifts and then Trucks or Rail cars that accept the containers. Imagine trying to move a similar quantity of material off of Sailboats using Longshoremen and then Wagons pulled by horses. You just could not do it, the boats would be lined up 10 nautical miles deep offshore waiting to get unloaded.

The scenario nobody planned for or considered realistically once getting ON the Industrial Paradigm is how you can get OFF of it. The tacit assumption made all through this time is that other forms of Energy would eventually be accessed to keep the system running. The meme was that we would eventually have Matter-Antimatter engines that would take us Trekking the Stars eating Food replicated from pure Energy.

I think you can scale back to older systems which worked, but not with anywhere near the current population walking the Earth. The big problem facing the world is how you reduce population in the same kind of timeframe that energy is disappearing; it can’t be accomplished through Birth Control even if that worked demographically and it doesn’t.

Our Leaders don’t want to face up to or verbalize this problem, because of course it is Political Suicide to do that. How do you inform a population that probably 90% of them have to DIE before we can scale back to systems that are sustainable here? This would not be a very popular platform on a Democratic level anyhow. It could be a popular platform amongst the 10% who get to Live of course.

RE

http://www.doomsteaddiner.org

April 8, 2012 at 7:04 am #2447

TheTrivium4TW

Reverse Engineer post=2050 wrote: It could be a popular platform amongst the 10% who get to Live of course.

Dead panned Reverse Engineer. ;-)

I don’t know how many people the Earth can sustain if people lived sustainable lifestyles.

But I will agree that our current life style organization won’t support the current population based upon what is to come in the not too distant future (<100 years for sure – and that ain’t long!).

April 8, 2012 at 8:44 am #2452

backwardsevolution

Yes, I was thinking of the “American” population, not the world population. Thanks.

April 8, 2012 at 2:06 pm #2457

Golden Oxen

@ TheTrivium4TW For a harmless metal that evolved to become money to many, you sure give it a lot more powers than I ever imagined it had. Possible reason for the Revolutionary War was quite a revelation, thanks. Due to your unique input I can now better understand why the alien reptiles allowed the Egyptians to discover it in order for the TPTB group of hybrids to maintain control of colony earth. I just threw the tiny amount I own in the waste basket and washed my hands of it for good. Thanks again for the amazing revelations, I had no idea.

April 8, 2012 at 3:04 pm #2461

Candace

Supergravity,

So does that mean the reptilians are the Freemasons? ;)

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