June 19, 2021 at 9:12 pm #77770Bill7Participant
> • Both systems devolve into corruption caused by too much political/economic power being wielded by a small group of people who then warp the system to perpetuate their own wealth and power.
• Therefore, a better system would need to, by default, prevent the aggregation of wealth/power into few hands.
• Or, another way of stating it, power/wealth needs to tend away from aggregation.
• Or, another way of viewing — local power needs to exceed power from far away: i.e. local rule is stronger than federal rule. Confederacy rather than federalism. If local power is the strongest, but it can only exert itself locally, then it is more difficult for small numbers of people to exert influence over larger numbers.
• One proposal I’m aware of to prevent the few from ruling the many is “worker cooperatives” – each member gets one vote in decisions. This is very democratic, and while it won’t prevent every possibly excess of business, it will create an environment that is less likely to produce many of the problems that we see now. It is less likely that a democratic process will force some of its members to lose their jobs, or to relocate their jobs to a foreign country, or to pollute the land above the aquafer used for the water that runs through their own homes. <
Thanks for all this. Agree that Worker-owned Co-ops are a provisional, limited answer; which is why the Few will not “allow” them. Maybe that could change, but as long as most everything is in the digital domain to be infiltrated co-opted, and bollixed-up, probably won’t: the darpaNet is not our friend.June 19, 2021 at 9:18 pm #77771Doc RobinsonParticipant
I suggest that you (and everyone here) download this letter to the FDA sent earlier this month by a group of concerned medical professionals (including Peter Doshi, associate editor at the British Medical Journal BMJ.)
This letter (a petition actually) spells out, in detail, why the Covid vaccines should not be licensed (approved) until some specific studies are done to ensure their long-term safety. There is a lot of information presented here, including biodistribution study results from Pfizer and Moderna.
The references at the end of the document include links to the various related studies and articles..
Below are some quotes from the petition. The reference numbers throughout the text correspond to the linked studies and article listed at the end of the document.
“Recently, evidence of systemic circulation of spike protein or its components in subjects post-immunization was reported.15 All studies we are aware of to date raise concerns about the safety of spike protein,16–28 and the concentration of circulatory spikes was correlated to the disease severity in COVID-19 patients.29”
“The vaccines induce the generation of antibodies to attack spike protein, which are genetically similar to proteins produced by the placenta.30 To date, no vaccine sponsors have conducted immunologic studies of spike protein involvement with proteins involved in placental development.”
“Carcinogenesis. There is preliminary and theoretical evidence that the spike protein may promote cancer.31,32 Considering the potential for annual booster vaccinations, COVID-19 vaccines should be treated similarly to medication taken for chronic conditions on a long term basis. Carcinogenic potential is important to characterize”
“Transmission of spike protein (or its fragments) from vaccinated individuals, such as through breast milk and associated risk in neonates and infants. According to the UK Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, there are 921 reports of exposure via breast milk following AstraZeneca’s vaccine and 215 reports following Pfizer’s vaccine.”
“4. Require data from biodistribution studies investigating the actual COVID-19 vaccines.
Data from the biodistribution studies submitted by Moderna and Pfizer suggests that the vaccines distribute widely in the body, including to the liver, brain, heart, lung, adrenals, ovaries, and testes, among many other tissues.34,35 (See Tables 1a, 1b, and 2 below for studies R-[?]-0072 and 185350 submitted by Pfizer and study 5002121 submitted by Moderna.)
b. However these were not studies of the currently authorized products: Pfizer’s BNT162b2, Moderna’s mRNA-1273, or Janssen’s Ad26.COV2.S.34–36
c. Instead of presenting novel biodistribution studies of the COVID-19 vaccine formulations, sponsors presented substitute studies to FDA for an EUA during the pandemic.34–36
d. Therefore, novel biodistribution studies investigating the actual COVID-19 vaccines are necessary.
e. Biodistribution studies would be required for any small molecule pharmaceutical drug submitted for approval (i.e. New Drug Application), and should be conducted on the COVID-19 vaccines as well as these novel vaccines which work on the premise of gene delivery–very different to conventional vaccines.”June 19, 2021 at 9:19 pm #77772
Someone else who likes suicide as their favorite method of death are the Clintons! Depending upon how you count, Clinton suicides run anywhere from about 30 to well over 100.
Some times accountability in China comes quickly! Like improving refrigerator quality by shooting the managers in front of the workers!June 19, 2021 at 9:19 pm #77773Doc RobinsonParticipant
Government site where that petition has been posted:June 19, 2021 at 9:28 pm #77774
After the USSR hit the wall in the early 1990s, workers were given shares in the firms they worked in. It didn’t take long before all of these shares were in the hands of the few (management) for pennies on the dollar!June 19, 2021 at 9:58 pm #77775
An interesting tidbit.
Between both initial unemployment claims and Pandemic Assistance claims, it seems like 110 million out of 150 million US workers were laid off last year. Fraud seems to account for at least half of the claims! And Fraud left the country with the money!June 19, 2021 at 10:03 pm #77776zerosumParticipant
“worker cooperatives” – each member gets one vote in decisions.
Let’s get real.
Who is a “worker”?
What happens to those who are “non-workers”?June 20, 2021 at 1:10 am #77777Bill7Participant
> Who decides?
That’s the essence, isn’t it? Those who do real work; i.e. not the MBA-types, because that approach doesn’t seem to be working out well for most of us not in the present owning/explaining/gaslighting Class.June 20, 2021 at 2:28 am #77778Mister RobotoParticipant
I do not know but suspect that those who have been so hypnotized tend to be mainly members of the middle to the upper classes, those who have invested so much belief in the system. This includes the highly schooled
This might explain why “the narrative” stopped working on me shortly after the winter holidays. I was denied re-entry in the PMC in which I was born and raised, because when I was a socially maladjusted young man, I “fucked around and found out”. And with progressively less energy economically available since about 1978, there were fewer places in the world of “office-jobs” for young adults who frittered away their formative years. Seriously, the brief window the Boomers and older X-ers enjoyed where “good jobs” grew on trees slammed shut forever around pretty much the time I found myself having to deal with the real world.
So I will probably be working at the grocery store for as long as I’m physically able to work. One way in which this has been beneficial is that there is only so much of the Kool-Aid that I’m willing to drink. When it starts tasting like pure vinegar, I will probably spit it out into the sink.June 20, 2021 at 12:58 pm #77794Dr. DParticipant
“Energy in – more Energy out = starvation = death”
While true, obviously, at the moment it’s all voluntary. Or rather on purpose. Are we wasting more than half the food in the system? Are we still paving farmland with the single-minded fanaticism of locusts? Have we started growing, or even allowed the growing, of food in 1/3 of American temperate, the suburbs? Have we changed food profile, or started permaculture in the desert or to food-enhance unused land? Are the oceans of collapsing warehouses and concrete blocks been refitted to city food lots, requiring nothing but people and dirt? Have we even started “capitalism”, so that food prices could rise, funding more interest and supply?
No? You’re not serious/they’re not serious. The food shortages are all voluntary. When the fight to halt the tiniest lift of the ocean of lead piled on farmers and food production, while everybody from ConAgra, your Congressman, the U.S. Military, and Bill Gates all know for decades…it’s a plan, a choice. It’s impossible for it to be otherwise. Heck, just rigging the Ag Commodities prices every day takes billions in regular input money and 100,000 felonies. That alone is active, not passive.
So think of these guys when chicken stops in your grocer, which it already has.
“Taibbi is late to the party on this one.” The news isn’t what is TRUE, it’s what you can say and get away with. He’s taking a crack at getting away with this, 200k deaths later. Here’s the problem: guys like ME can say these things. Also ‘cause guys like me can be dead wrong on Covid, or vaccines, or whatever. I understand that. Guys like HIM have to be right, but what does “right” mean? Supported? Supported by who? What? Public statements? Evidence? It’s frustrating as h—l because instead of being “investigative reporter” the furthest out act like Walter Cronkite and won’t say a word until it’s deeply established incontrovertible fact…and even THEN it’s considered fringe. …And that is the definition of the “Overton Window,” an excuse for liars, cowards, and failed “appeal to authority”. Authority? You mean organized liars and -ss-coverers? Institutions lie to protect themselves. Like other life forms, existing is primary, paychecks are second, institutional mission is a distant placeholder, addressed if time allows. That means ANYTHING ANY institution/bureaucracy says is probably a lie. At least once the drift of personal society allows open lying, bribes, and deceit, which has for 50 years now.
Reporters are supposed to assume that up front, but somehow we’ve got to a point where 100% of people lie, and 100% of people believe everything they’re told. How, I have no idea.
Election passwords: Okay, like everything in life now, it’s illegal if they don’t give them, AND it’s illegal if they don’t have them. …And nobody goes to jail. If they have and don’t give, it’s defying a court order. If they really don’t have them – they claim Dominion does – it’s illegal election fraud because they did not oversee and were not in charge of the election, as legally required. So can we arrest a brother up in here? Nope! We only arrest and jail for NON-crimes, we never, never arrest FOR crimes. Everyone agrees and approves in #AntiLogos. Cheers! Boy we sure showed those uptight church squares how good is free living. No rules! You can’t judge me.
Next problem: they asked for the router logs. They said “you can’t have them, police business is tangentially-related on them.” Boom. Voting machines are NEVER supposed to be ON the routers: the routers are clean. So them refusing to provide the router logs to prove this shows the machines were online and vulnerable the whole time. …According to THEM. Nobody goes to jail. They are still considered credible, defensible, and the people asking questions the baddies. Because they wanted to prove Biden is the most popular president in world history, all the votes were perfect, and the Democrats and Biden supporters will risk prison to AVOID proving that Biden is the best and won easily. Right?
And like 100 other lines and discoveries, each as idiotic and obvious as the next. But idiotic is my religion. I’ll never give it up.
This is all supposed to make sense somehow, and apparently, to everyone else, it does! Of COURSE if my candidate won effortlessly I’ll block every recount and go to prison to avoid proving it. And of COURSE when that’s the case, every election law, court order, subpoena is refused, subverted, tampered, NOBODY GOES TO JAIL. So why bother? You weren’t going to do anything anyway. Aquarian Age: everything is a Symbol. It’s all for Show. Tweeting is the same as actually NOT blowing up Syrian children, except for the part where children blow up. BellingCat and Harding writing it is the same as it being true. See how easy that is? In an information world, reality doesn’t exist.
Except when it does, ‘cause there’s no food.
Phoenix: It’s the usual fake straw man for capitalism. Laissez-faire. Okay, dum-dum (we say to those idiot-son CEOs promoting it) WHO do you think is going to protect your property rights? The tooth fairy? And if someone is murdered, do we think corporations will solve it? Of COURSE not: that’s what makes it a “Straw Man”, that is, totally fake. Completely disinegenuine. “Capitalism” is a word of Marx. What they mean is, “I can make and own things and trade them if I want” which is true of humans, in prison, on the moon, everywhere, always, period. Even the most communist places ever, like Indian tribes, fully support this, and you can get whacked with a hatchet if you screw with it. It’s part of a system. Not JUST a government system that says it’s illegal to harm people – no matter if your person or corp – but a social system. In their fake, disengenuous report, they also pretend THAT doesn’t exist. As I say many times, slavery can be “legal”, and it’s deeply profitable as we know from it’s present use in trafficking worldwide: we CHOOSE as a society to say it’s wrong.
I’ve said all these things constantly. The government is supposed to do government things. The market is supposed to do market things. The humans and families are supposed to do human things. Instead, all of them are doing the OPPOSITE things. Government is now corporations, preventing markets. Corporations are not subject to law, but ALSO prevent any market, competition, sales, price discovery, or accounting while involving themselves exclusively in social and government matters. Families are legal, going to judges for every family choice, as you well know.
Laissez-faire is an easy slogan to mistake, especially as 100 years of fascism/communism (but I repeat myself) is spent TRYING to misunderstand it. Every NPR article, every paper, every comedian, every report, every professor and every socialist (but I repeat myself) tries desperately to be totally ignorant and make s—t up. Laissez-faire was coined in revolutionary France. The Communists had tried EVERYTHING: prices up, prices down, erasing the money, FORCING the money. Stopping all work, forcing all work. Stealing everything, giving everything. Helping, helping, helping. Nothing worked. The people were starving, France was in ruins.
So Rob said to Jean, said, “Hey, I’ve got an idea: let’s ASK instead of just giving orders all day.” Jean said, “Well that sounds insane not to give orders about things we don’t understand, but if we don’t get some food, the people will tear us apart with their bare hands.” (they later did).
So they went and asked, “Hey businessmen, hey farmers, tell us how we can HELP you get, you know, whatever s—t you morons do, done, so we all don’t starve, die, and get torn apart by the mob.”
And the businessmen said??? “Laissez-faire.” Meaning. “If you want food, clothes, LEAVE US THE F—K ALONE!!!! You’re killing everyone with your “helping”. for the love of God and France, STOP HELPING!!!” Which is true. It’s hard enough to make stuff that works and get anything for your risk, your time, your heartache. It’s always way easier to fail, to make a mistake, to sit around. But if they keep d—king with everything, so every day you have no idea what copper costs, what solder costs, what money is worth, if your customers will have 1 centime or 10L tomorrow, if your shop is not taxed, then quadruple taxed, then not taxed again…you OBVIOUSLY can’t make any decisions at all. You’d be g-dd—n INSANE to try ANYTHING, grow ANY food, make ANY clothes, EVER.
They have to stop getting involved in everybody’s business, in the market where government doesn’t belong, while also NOT doing government stuff: budgets, laws, prisons, armies. So the government was in #Hell, which is the absence of Reason. #AntiLogos. They refuse to do their own job, because: hard; and ONLY tried to do somebody else’s job, screwing all that up too. Just like today, as we gallop into the same end for the same reasons. STOP! Stop helping. Clean your own room. If government did its own job properly, property rights and prosecuting harm like chemical spills, business would fix itself.
So did they say, “please give us total indemnity from all legal laws?” No. Did they say, “We are no longer subject to the Church, or the people of France, or natural law?” No. They said “You’re a bunch of meddling morons who pass laws on things you don’t understand. Stop helping and everyone will eat again, even you.” Robespierre and da Woke were of course, too dumb, too ego-driven to stop. France died, whole ethnic groups were genocided, and it all ended in the first real World War, Napoleon’s attack of all Europe and the death of millions. All because they couldn’t stop HELPING, stop meddling. (And do their own job either.)
How did Napoleon turn around France in 60 seconds? He established sound money, stopped stealing, had laws that didn’t change every hour, and LET PEOPLE DO. “Laissez-faire” …While doing his own job, having law, punishment, and enforcing property rights. Boom! Instant food, instant prosperity. Didn’t take a year. Same with Germany, post-war, when they kicked off the Anglo money-screw and set the Deutschmark.
Don’t just make stuff up. These people, as I always say every day, are LYING to you. That’s not what Laissez-faire means. They are LIARS. Deeply ignorant , deeply proud, and don’t even care if it’s true or not. Only their religion.
OBVIOUSLY making human things and trading them lives in a SYSTEM. It is a human system so it’s never pure, it’s in a middle place. But Laissez-faire never meant – not even now, not even to businessmen – that they are absolved of all legal, human, and thermodynamic realities. That’s a fantasy only government attempts.
Yes, we’re here now. So how does wealth/power disperse? Through COMPETITION. The big fail themselves, because they’re fat, ugly, and stupid. Only GOVERNMENT can prevent this, and “Capitalism” will unite with government to prevent natural progression, as you say. THEREFORE GOVERNMENT CANNOT BE THE SOLUTION to the uniting. Government, Business, are not going to screw themselves. As I say, every day, with “tax the rich” tax law. They’re going to unite against the people. Always. So when you can’t use government because THEY’RE THE PROBLEM, who’s the third party? YOU ARE. Congratulations, you’re now a Constitutionalist, and therefore a terrorist.
YOU are the division of powers. Not government: it’s not your Daddy. Government is twice as dangerous as business and twice as happy to align with CEOs and against you. It of FORCE, it is OPPRESSION, it is VIOLENCE, it is FIRE. Not CEOs. How are CEOs going to get away with shooting you without government? And you’re going to tell them not to? Pass a law? How’s that been working out compared to competition and civil liability? It’s been keeping them in power by making everyone think your protests, your tweets, your votes, your laws, mean a tiny thing. They don’t. That Rainbow-Coke and Rainbow painted B-52s matter. But they do prevent you from taking real action that will stop them, and that’s a daily win for evil to keep you busy with the wrong tactics.
Yes, the power needs to come down as far to local as possible. But that means the other, government-annihilated forces need to reappear: family, church, societies, clubs. The ten-thousand social clubs in the 19th century, Granges, Odd Fellows, not only had free health care, but were atomized power blocks no state politician could afford to not meet, woo, or dare ignore. Together they had power to force politicians to accountability, even to the federal level. …Which is why they fought back and erased them all, down to the church, even crushing the family itself, now even individuals like schoolchildren, the minute they had the Fed’s blank checkbook, of the Progressives. They bought them off with social welfare. Free s–t if only you obey.
And here we are, slaves all. How will you start a mutual aid club, a church, a family again? You can’t. It requires belief, trust, and honor. We have none of this until the money dies. Until the Federal dies. That’s why I’m always on about the money. Until they stop improperly using that as a replacement for all human action, nothing can return to normal. Only government can MAKE the money, with GUNS. Up your nose. Coming into your house with your kids as you know.
Only STOPPING government can stop the type of business, the Totally-Anti-laissez-faire, where government nor business never leaves you alone, never has a minute of free, left-alone market or pricing. It’s their guns, their crooked arrests, their violence that makes it all possible. Without their backing, business and government would be rivals again, balanced by you, the people. Saying they’re dicks, you won’t buy their products. Only government can enforce Boeing, Comcast, and Facebook.
“It didn’t take long before all of these shares were in the hands of the few” This is one of the MANY reasons why worker co-ops never work. (strangely and counter-intuitively) It’s all been done. We’re sort of on ‘least-bad.” Utopian or Ideal is certain failure because men are not. Messy Balance of powers, well-armed, works.
Yes, like Solzhenitsyn, Illych is amazing in how far ahead he could see.
Energy just shows how far away from reality you can afford to get. How much you can avoid and suspend consequences.
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