May 182012
 
 May 18, 2012  Posted by at 4:17 pm Finance
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waxbullets

October 23, 1909. New York. “Duelling with wax bullets.” Paintball 1.0. 5×7 glass negative, George Grantham Bain Collection.

With Greece potentially on the brink of exit from the Eurozone before year’s end, a lot of analysis out there has turned to what the consequences of such an event would be, and, specifically, what punishment Greece would receive from the EU and other international organizations, such as the IMF and perhaps even NATO. The general line of thinking here is that Europe will make such a devastating example out of Greece that no one else will dare to question the status quo setup ever again. While Greece is dragged down the Green Mile in shackles to its final destination, all the other prisoners will watch with an unmistakable sense of dread, and the ceiling lights will ominously flicker as the “juice” is turned on, electro-frying Greece into a crispy black corpse.

In a recent Telegraph article by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, the views of analysts at Bank of America and HSBC are outlined, and they just so happen to fit in very nicely with the above narrative (one that will only become more common in the coming weeks). First, they say that global markets will rally on a Greek exit due to the massive response it precipitates by the ECB, Fed, BOJ, EU and other Eurozone governments – coordinated currency swaps, ECB interest rate cuts, ECB QE, Fed QE, SMP purchases of Spanish and Italian bonds, capital injections into Euro area banks and a “pan-European system of deposit guarantees”, among other things.

They are relying on the quite cliched argument that BAD = GOOD in this market system, since the centralized authorities will unleash every tool at their disposal when the going gets rough. The other critical part of this bankster-floated narrative is that the Euro area will become better, faster and stronger once Greek is thrown overboard and left as chum for the sharks. Not only will the central institutions manage to prevent systemic contagion via the tools listed above, but the remaining member states will be scared shitless and will therefore do whatever they are told to do in exchange for remaining shackled to the new and improved Eurozone.

Here is a short passage from the Evans-Pritchard article (he is referencing the views of David Bloom, currency chief at HSBC):

Global banks see market rally on Greek exit

 

Mr Bloom said the ECB is playing a game of chicken by waiting until it has secured maximum compliance from EMU’s wayward states before coming to the rescue. “Once again it is holding everybody over the edge of the abyss until they scream for mercy,” he said.

 

A currency union without the encumbrance of Greece would be viewed as a stronger bloc by investors, but much would depend on events in Greece itself.

 

If a return to the drachma proved to be a “ruinous experience” for the Greeks – as HSBC expects – if would mightily deter Portugal, Spain, and other from such temptation.

 

The worst outcome for euro and monetary union would be a double whammy where the authorities fail to control EMU-wide contagion, yet Greece somehow manages to claw its way out of crisis and make a success out of a devalued sovereign currency, as Argentina did after breaking the dollar-peg in 2002.

The world according to HSBC is simple here – the European people are destined to wake up from the EU nightmare if Greece exits and manages to do well for itself (naturally), especially if the other Eurozone members follow in its footsteps and start planning for a new, anti-Euro, anti-bankster beginning. In order to avoid such a pleasant outcome, Europe must hope that both financial and psychological contagion is squashed immediately by the globalist institutions, and Greece is kicked in the skull so hard and so swiftly that it never recovers from the blow. Banks like BoA and HSBC want the head of Alexis Tspiras on a pike, bandied about from country to country as a stark reminder not to cross the callous elites whom they serve, and they also want everyone else to believe such tactics will be effective as the Final Deterrent.

I am here to remind you, though, that the reality of our situation is NOT what they would have you believe. Their arguments may be convincing when framed in a world of stability and expansion, but they completely break down in our current era of instability and contraction. The functions of Michel Foucault’s “discplinary society” and Guilles Delueze’s “control society” are rapidly becoming obsolete, as the institutions of global society can no longer leverage and arbitrage the peoples’ fear and willful ignorance against them. In short, and for all practical purposes, the large-scale civilization’s strategy of achieving conformity and normalcy through deterrence is dead.

When the Greek people finally exit the EZ, and if/when they are made to SUFFER at the Cross for their “sins”, the Spaniards, Italians, Portuguese and Irish (and eventually, the French, British, Germans, Americans) will look on and realize that the Cross is not such a bad fate when compared to the tons of flesh that will be demanded by the globalist elites in perpetuity. In the short-term, it is quite possible that the bankster propaganda-and-punishment cycle succeeds in quelling further internal dissent within the Eurozone, but any such success will amount to nothing more than castles made of sand on the shores of a ravaging sea. As the tides of popular resistance continue to turn and grow with force, these castles will eventually crumble.

The Spanish are already suffering unemployment rates just as severe as those of Greece (25% of population, 50%+ of youth population), and their economy has been locked out of credit markets at just about every scale (households, businesses, regional governments). When Greece is ousted and the Eurocrats ride in to Madrid on their white steeds with promises of conditional backstops and bulletproof memorandums, it will be almost too late. No one will believe that the Powers That Be in Europe can do anything more for the people of Spain than they did for the people of Greece (bankrupt them and leave them to die).

This death of deterrence is as clear in the criminal justice system of the developed world as it is in the economic and geopolitical spheres of the Eurozone. Once a large enough portion of a population has been financially, socially and psychologically reduced to rubble, it becomes exponentially more difficult to scare it back into “playing by the rules”. I mentioned in the TAE comment forum that the death penalty does not act as much of a deterrent to criminals in U.S. states which also carry the penalty of life in prison without parole (an assertion that has been studied to death by criminologists), but this issue goes much deeper than that.

The threat of state and/or federally-sanctioned punishment in EVERY realm of society is losing its credibility as time goes on and the pain of the disenfranchised masses festers like an untreatable infection. This is why Iran will never back down from their ability to pursue nuclear energy/weapons technology in the long-term, no matter how many theaters of war the Western powers decide to open up in the Middle East. It is why the growing police states in the West will always encounter some significant force of resistance, no matter how many people they assassinate or imprison without due process in FEMA camps or other pre-planned destinations. Yes, there will no doubt be many people who end up submitting to status quo out of fear (perhaps a status quo disguised as “something else”), and will continue to actively or passively support it.

Still, it is undeniable that a percentage of the masses will choose to defect/resist – a percentage that will surely make the globalists quiver in thier boots – because the other choices they are left with are dreadful and degrading beyond imagination. This is also why the Cold War era, game-theoretical fantasy of Mutually Assured Destruction will no longer function coherently in the near future. That is a scary prospect, but one that we must learn to live with. When pushed into extreme situations, and backed into corners with no apparent way out, people will resort to desperate and extreme measures for their perceived survival.

It is all part and parcel of an industrial, imperial, global capitalist system that has entered its terminal stages of decline – stages which will present us with grave threats, frightening prospects and unique opportunities. The traditional deterrence narratives spun by the elites will only work for as long as we choose to empower them; to validate them as persuasive arguments (like AEP does), rather than the putrid propaganda that they really are. Banks like BoA and HSBC, and, lately, analysts such as AEP, have been thoroughly immersed in this global propaganda campaign being waged for ALL the marbles, whether they know it or not (I suspect many of them do).

We must recognize, point out and discredit their myths every chance we get, because they already gained a huge head start in embedding them within our political culture. If we choose to believe that minority pockets of people on this Earth hold unparalleled amounts of power over individuals, families, communities and societies, then they will keep us deterred from freedom until it is much too late. But the reality that the elites want to see materialize is NOT the reality that they will get – if only we remember to always accept the truth and reject everything else which sullies its name.

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May 18, 2012 at 4:17 pm #8527

ashvin

October 23, 1909. New York. “Duelling with wax bullets.” Paintball 1.0. 5×7 glass negative, George Grantham Bain Collection. With Greece potentially o
[See the full post at: Deterrence is Dead]

May 19, 2012 at 12:44 am #3385

jal

If you want to get out of dodge city … the first step is to do a little bit of logistic.

Do as the Greeks
… get your money out of the banks….
… Sell disposable assets.
… Send moveable assets into a safe haven.
… prepare for the next shoe to drop

May 19, 2012 at 1:17 am #3386

Tao Jonesing

Corporations are allowed to declare bankruptcy and thus avoid servicing their debts, but we will punish a country and its innocent citizens if their government does the same thing. It’s interesting that the “efficiency” of corporations is touted as the reason why corporations are superior to governments, and yet we won’t allow bankrupt governments to be efficient in the same way that bankrupt corporations can be.

May 19, 2012 at 6:37 am #3391

sangell

I think the ‘elites’ are just as scared and uncertain as everyone else is otherwise they would have crushed Greece already.

While its true those in positions of great power sometimes come to believe themselves omnipotent they are not entirely stupid and most read a bit or at least react nervously when untoward events occur. One need only remember how shaky our visibly shaken our ‘leaders’ were on 9/11 or when Hank Paulson told them the financial system was about to collapse in 2008. I won’t deny they recovered their swagger rather quickly when the danger from both events seemed to pass but they know they are riding a tiger and, like us, none of them know how to get off it without risking the tiger’s wrath. They are as scared as we are of what lies ahead so they just pretend that nothing has changed because they have no more idea than we as to how this is going to play out.

May 19, 2012 at 10:05 am #3393

Reverse Engineer

I napalmed the latest trash off the keyboard of Ambrose earlier today at the Tomaine Poisoning Table in the Diner in the AEP: Illuminati Shill thread.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/forum/index.php?topic=330.0

Check out the latest trash of the keyboard of Ambrose.

Highlights

Gary Jenkins from the bond advisers Swordfish said those betting on a market crash should be careful. “The global central banks are going to respond with the biggest flood of liquidity the world has ever seen. It will make the LTRO (the ECB’s €1 trillion lending to banks) look like small change,” he said.

REALLY? This clown expects the ECB to backstop Spain and Italy with a Niagara Falls of money that makes €1T look like Chump Change? How Big is this Bazooka going to be Gary? €10T? You also figure that Helicopter Ben will Print Dollars to Swap for that as well? What collateral is anybody putting up for this printing spree? Or do you figure the CBs will just Naked Print €10T?

Bank of America said it expects a “powerful short squeeze” in risk assets as speculative funds unwind positions, led by a rebound in battered bank stocks and Club Med bonds. The euro would surge 10pc to $1.40 against the US dollar after dipping first to $1.20 in the immediate panic.

I am supposed to believe the savvy utterances coming from BofA? BofA Economistas expect the Euro to SURGE to $1.40 here after Greece is left to Twist in the Wind? While Spain and Italy are still IN the Euro with 25-50% Youth Unemployment?

Does Ambrose believe this shit or is he paid by the Word to shill for these assholes?

RE

May 19, 2012 at 1:14 pm #3395

AndrewP

Deterrence can work if the penalty Greece must pay is a brutal military occupation. A new EU Wehrmacht should be drafted to occupy Greece with 500,000 troops. They will go door to door and confiscate all gold and silver in the country to pay Germany back. If they feel any household is holding something back, its males get executed on the spot, and the females get taken away as sex slaves, and shipped to Germany or France. Every street lamp in Greece will have a body hanging from it, and the highways will be lined with millions of crucified Greeks. Any city that resists occupation well enough gets put to the nuclear blast. Since Germany does not have nukes, they will have to use the French ones, and that means only an EU Federation will have the power to impose an imperial occupation. Germany cannot do it alone.

May 19, 2012 at 7:47 pm #3398

ashvin

AndrewP,

And China and Russia (and India, Pakistan, Iran, etc. etc.) do what exactly in this scenario? I’ll give you the UK and the US this time as at least passive observers, and Japan again (it’s quite irrelevant either way), but the Others might not be so tolerant.

May 19, 2012 at 10:15 pm #3399

Golden Oxen

Gary Jenkins from the bond advisers Swordfish said those betting on a market crash should be careful. “The global central banks are going to respond with the biggest flood of liquidity the world has ever seen. It will make the LTRO (the ECB’s €1 trillion lending to banks) look like small change,” he said.

Agree 100% with this forecast of Gary Jenkins. Things are getting out of hand rapidly with deflation shouters now out of control. Shock therapy imminent.

May 19, 2012 at 10:19 pm #3400

TheTrivium4TW

ashvin post=3012 wrote: AndrewP,

And China and Russia (and India, Pakistan, Iran, etc. etc.) do what exactly in this scenario? I’ll give you the UK and the US this time as at least passive observers, and Japan again (it’s quite irrelevant either way), but the Others might not be so tolerant.

Nobody in the mainstream asks…

If these countries can’t pay back their debts now, how are they going to pay more debt later?

If the US has grown debt faster than GDP for nearly 30 years ahead of the 2008 collapse, how are they going to grow GDP faster than debt now?

What is the exact text of the Federal Reserve mandate and what does Ben Bernanke and the repeating talking heads claim it is?

Big Finance Capital capital has captured major media and much of the population sucks off this authority’s t*t like it was gospel instead of BFC propaganda.

It’s all fake where the rubber hits the road. Fake, fake, fake.

It is an ongoing effort to figure out the mechanics of this fraud, but it *is* a fraud and it doesn’t “just happen.”

“The brave man inattentive to his duty, is worth little more to his country, than the coward who deserts her in the hour of danger.”
~Andrew “Den of Viper slayer” Jackson

May 19, 2012 at 10:26 pm #3401

TheTrivium4TW

Golden Oxen post=3013 wrote: Gary Jenkins from the bond advisers Swordfish said those betting on a market crash should be careful. “The global central banks are going to respond with the biggest flood of liquidity the world has ever seen. It will make the LTRO (the ECB’s €1 trillion lending to banks) look like small change,” he said.

Agree 100% with this forecast of Gary Jenkins. Things are getting out of hand rapidly with deflation shouters now out of control. Shock therapy imminent.

GO, they will only do it if they think it benefits them. When it doesn’t, the populations will be hung out to dry… with the media touting “imminent” floods of liquidity all the way down.

That’s how they roll.

IMHO, I could see it going either way this time around… but I tend to think the odds favor another trillion dollar theft by the banksters. At some point, though, they will determine they’ve stolen enough cash and bank credit to buy up a fully depressed planet – so stealing won’t matter any more.

The banksters finance their operatives into government so that the bankster agenda reigns SUPREME.

One who can correctly anticipate WHAT THIS BANKSTER AGENDA IS KNOWS THEIR FUTURE DECISIONS.

Fascism isn’t coming, people, fascism is already here… it is “soft,” but it is hardening at an alarming rate.

May 19, 2012 at 10:57 pm #3402

ashvin

Golden Oxen post=3013 wrote: Agree 100% with this forecast of Gary Jenkins. Things are getting out of hand rapidly with deflation shouters now out of control. Shock therapy imminent.

Shock therapy is always imminent – it’s the only thing the banks and their cronies know how to do (threaten shock therapy and/or implement it). It ONLY works consistently in a paradigm of growth/expansion. We are not in that paradigm any more, and that is the point – deterrence is DEAD.

If you think about it, flooding the system with liquidity is a form of deterrence – it punishes people for “betting” on the other side, whether that be investors, hard workers, savers, retirees, or anyone else who has chosen to face reality and be disciplined (personally, not institutionally) in their lives. That punishment will only be effective when the costs of being disciplined outweigh the benefits.

If/when a significant portion of investors, consumers and/or citizens of the world choose to keep their money, efforts, support out of the system no matter what the central bankers threaten to do or actually do, for whatever reason, then Gary Jenkins and all others like him will be exposed as puppets of the Naked Emperor, and their predictions will be flat out wrong.

May 19, 2012 at 10:58 pm #3403

Golden Oxen

Triv, Agreed that they have no concern whatsoever for us. Do think they fear a real uprising at this point in time however. No sense upsetting the gravy train until they have too. After all it is all peaches and cream for them. I just love the way they joust about in chauffeur driven limos as they enjoy their escargot and champagne lunches while preaching austerity to the sheeple. Why screw up a setup that is working so nicely? As you rightfully point out the printing is theft and the sheeple want it. Paul Krugman is even begging for it. Such a deal, makes me just a bit jealous.

May 19, 2012 at 11:13 pm #3404

Golden Oxen

ashvin post=3016 wrote: [quote=Golden Oxen post=3013]Agree 100% with this forecast of Gary Jenkins. Things are getting out of hand rapidly with deflation shouters now out of control. Shock therapy imminent.

Shock therapy is always imminent – it’s the only thing the banks and their cronies know how to do (threaten shock therapy and/or implement it). It ONLY works consistently in a paradigm of growth/expansion. We are not in that paradigm any more, and that is the point – deterrence is DEAD.

If you think about it, flooding the system with liquidity is a form of deterrence – it punishes people for “betting” on the other side, whether that be investors, hard workers, savers, retirees, or anyone else who has chosen to face reality and be disciplined (personally, not institutionally) in their lives. That punishment will only be effective when the costs of being disciplined outweigh the benefits.

If/when a significant portion of investors, consumers and/or citizens of the world choose to keep their money, efforts, support out of the system no matter what the central bankers threaten to do or actually do, for whatever reason, then Gary Jenkins and all others like him will be exposed as puppets of the Naked Emperor, and their predictions will be flat out wrong.

Agree with your statement Ashvin, it is the when it happens that is the problem. They are threatening to tax savings if we don’t spend them, threatening to force IRA’s to buy their bonds, they already destroyed our savings with zero interest rates and inflation. It is hard to fight the bastards with a cash pile they are always attacking. I have tried to protect with gold and silver and they screw over us gold bugs to every time they get a chance. I am scared of creating my own dooms day by preparing for the real one if you know what I mean. The TIMING of this thing is EVERYTHING.

May 19, 2012 at 11:36 pm #3405

TheTrivium4TW

ashvin post=3016 wrote: [quote=Golden Oxen post=3013]Agree 100% with this forecast of Gary Jenkins. Things are getting out of hand rapidly with deflation shouters now out of control. Shock therapy imminent.

Shock therapy is always imminent – it’s the only thing the banks and their cronies know how to do (threaten shock therapy and/or implement it). It ONLY works consistently in a paradigm of growth/expansion. We are not in that paradigm any more, and that is the point – deterrence is DEAD.

If you think about it, flooding the system with liquidity is a form of deterrence – it punishes people for “betting” on the other side, whether that be investors, hard workers, savers, retirees, or anyone else who has chosen to face reality and be disciplined (personally, not institutionally) in their lives. That punishment will only be effective when the costs of being disciplined outweigh the benefits.

If/when a significant portion of investors, consumers and/or citizens of the world choose to keep their money, efforts, support out of the system no matter what the central bankers threaten to do or actually do, for whatever reason, then Gary Jenkins and all others like him will be exposed as puppets of the Naked Emperor, and their predictions will be flat out wrong.

Hi Ash, in other words, the level of tyranny we will live under is exactly equal to the level of tyranny that we will passively accept.

One aspect of psychology that the delites (they aren’t elites, people, they are delites) have down pat is that reality doesn’t matter at all, unless it impacts perception.

The delites are masters of manipulating perception against anything that is reality.

So, you are correct in your analysis, but the factor you don’t mention is that your view won’t take effect until perception begins to more closely match reality. That is a big wild card, IMHO.

It could be now or it could be later.

BTW, All that liquidity can be summed up in one word – looting.

It has nothing to do with anything else other than raw, in your face, Darwinistic level theft (they are “fit” to steal and deceive us and we are “unfit” to figure out their deceptions and stop them).

“Those who will not use their own brain, they are nothing more than meat on the table and beasts of burden by choice and consent.”
- Albert Pike

“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can “throw the rascals out” at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.”
- Carrol Quigley, [Our] Tragedy and [Their] Hope

May 19, 2012 at 11:45 pm #3406

TheTrivium4TW

Golden Oxen post=3017 wrote: Triv, Agreed that they have no concern whatsoever for us. Do think they fear a real uprising at this point in time however. No sense upsetting the gravy train until they have too. After all it is all peaches and cream for them. I just love the way they joust about in chauffeur driven limos as they enjoy their escargot and champagne lunches while preaching austerity to the sheeple. Why screw up a setup that is working so nicely? As you rightfully point out the printing is theft and the sheeple want it. Paul Krugman is even begging for it. Such a deal, makes me just a bit jealous.

GO, Krugman is a cold blooded, 20 sheckel coveting, piece of trash operative funded by Big Finance Capital to do exactly what he’s doing. If Krugman wouldn’t do it, you wouldn’t know his name and some other Judas would be doing it.

Collaborators much prefer to be thought of as fools, if you know what I mean. Academic fools is an even better deception.

Hard gold outside the system is good as a store of wealth over the long term. Short term is anybody’s guess – it is a gamble like everything else in this “all risk, no reward” world they’ve created for the proles. The oligarchs can drive up gold if they want. Or they can collapse it by collapsing everything else. Or tax it at 90% or simply make it illegal.

All while they loot billions from segregated account and the “liberals” protect these crooks.

And don’t get me started on the bankster/government duopoly neo-Opium Wars they are running against the developed world.

They do have a point, though. Most of society is more gullible than a child looking at a puppy in a windowless white van… unwilling to admit the obvious – or even discuss it.

People seem to think that figuratively pulling the covers over their eyes give them some kind of force field protection against the criminals.

It does not. But that’s a mature viewpoint, something that is in very, very short supply today.

The tide is turning, though. Slowly, but surely, hence the in your face police state, freedom being defined as an assassination President who can kill anyone, anywhere without any evidence or oversight and re-education camps for political activists.

These b*stards will probably name their re-education rooms “Winston” and “Smith.”

May 20, 2012 at 12:19 am #3407

TheTrivium4TW

[quote=Reverse Engineer post=3007]I napalmed the latest trash off the keyboard of Ambrose earlier today at the Tomaine Poisoning Table in the Diner in the AEP: Illuminati Shill thread.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/forum/index.php?topic=330.0

Hi RE, I’ve been thinking about your view of money and I think our views are moving closer and closer the more I evaluate it.

Before I said that money “greases the skids” of the innate human selfish factor.

I think that visual is a gross understatement. Money doesn’t “grease the skids” as much as it is a “hyper-accelerant” for the selfishness that resides in humanity.

Think of human selfishness as the seed and the money as the fertilizer, water and sunshine.

I think that analogy works much better.

May 20, 2012 at 1:06 am #3408

ashvin

GO and Triv,

True, timing and degree are important factors here. When I say “deterrence is dead”, what I really mean is that it’s dying. Parts of it are alive and well, but the point is that it cannot be consistently relied upon by the disciplinarians and globalists to squash dissent and maintain order.

I believe there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they have already lost a good deal of control over the current system. The coordinated currency swaps by the CBs and the ECB’s LTROs barely lasted a few months before their effects wore off, and the latter had immediate negative consequences for the banks which used them.

If the globalists had full control, Greece would be kept in the Union forever, or at least bled completely dry. Now, they are openly making preparations for a Greek exit, because they have no other option but to do so. Politicians and pundits are openly questioning all of the policies that have been implemented to date (since 08).

When the extend&pretend system of financial capitalism breaks down, will that mean game over for the elites? No, probably not. I’m sure they have plenty of other tricks up their sleeves, up to and including outright military occupation. But let’s remember that people across the world are already protesting/rioting out in the streets and going head to head with the police. They are already putting themselves in physical danger, because there are few other options. The paradigm of quick fixes and rapid returns to normalcy is OVER.

That’s not to say that many of these protestors and dissenters won’t be squashed like ants. They very well may be. I’m not even arguing that what they’re doing is inherently a good thing or a bad thing (although I obviously lean a certain way, on balance). I’m just saying, it’s the natural trend and it can only become deeper over time. The old paradigm has been terminally broken, and there is no going back. Now, it’s all battles for shrinking pockets of wealth/control, all the way down.

May 20, 2012 at 3:27 am #3410

Golden Oxen

“Now, it’s all battles for shrinking pockets of wealth/control, all the way down.” That pie sure is getting smaller, no doubt at all about that. Bigger bites out of a smaller pie would suggest game ends sooner rather than later. Could they possibly create a bigger pie? Say, create a huge world wide stock market bubble that dwarfs that internet insanity they had a while back? Create a wealth effect that puts most everyone in a big feel good mood that keeps them all busy gambling in the market all day. They rig the hell out of it already. They could declare a tax holiday for a few years on stock profits and lower margins to 20 or 10% as a way to stimulate the economy and create jobs. It would be an easy sell. Ash, I realize you think I am stuck badly on this printing with make believe money theme, but I am being sincere. Look at the 100 billion they just created out of thin air with that Facebook fantasy they dumped on the sheeple yesterday!

May 20, 2012 at 3:32 am #3411

william

So I would like to suggest something different. I have been watching for a solution trying to get my finger on what is needed it seems this might be the answer.

The question is what is the problem? Debt. Debt so big that it out weighs the world assets many times. What caused this debt? A combination of business and government. Business found that by becoming a bank and offering credit it could increase its bottom line profits. Politicians found it was completely possible to buy votes. Once the debt became odious the international accounting practices where changed to cloud the amount and impossibility of paying off the debt.

In searching I have looked at a number of possibilities but the same conclusion becomes apparent we will not maintain the status quo and we will not be returning to past times of plentiful resources. Because we are resource strapped our backs are against the wall. Greece even more so, their resources were stripped so long ago.

So what is the best that Greece can do? What will benefit the greatest numbers and create stability? Careful management of resources and complete transparency of the books.

With that mindset I would like to propose what I have considered and now reconsidered again as the only direction possible. I consider it obvious that capitalism has failed based solely on the considerable debts it has raised. Likewise the democracy we have has also failed, like one politician put it, we are not your Saviour – we never promised to save you and that has never been our goal (our goal is to get reelected in 4 years).

Suppose Democracy is dead as well as capitalism – what is left?

I propose Libertarian Socialism. Not socialism as proposed within American neither libertarianism like what many try to scare us with.

We need to reconsidered what we are using today. This internet was not created through capitalism but through the ideals of Libertarianism. Check this out carefully. In the last 20 years many forceful creative effects where the brainchild of communities of ideals not the profit motive. Beyond the internet Linux also was developed with the ideals of the internet running the hubs of the whole system. These types of communities can and will be the future of the system.

Hard to imagine this Liberalism. Suppose I have a recipe for bread. Our capitalist profit system locks the consumer from the recipe and copyrights its access and recreation. Libertarian systems unlocks this and exposes the source even allowing changes to be made to it. If leadership likes the changes it allows the core recipe to be changed.

Since we all get high unemployment and collapsing infrastructure to look forward to it seems cooperation might work. Think of it not as some sort of communist system but a social system of working together pooling common resources to needs without the use of cash. Although government will radically change without the inflow of cash we can continue to exist and even thrive if we change fast.

May 20, 2012 at 3:55 am #3412

Golden Oxen

@ William, A very interesting and thought provoking post sir. The only problem I see right off is the people with the cash will feel they are getting the short end. People without the cash would find it appealing. Would like to see other members reaction to it and think about it much longer. RE’S comments on this cashless structure should be interesting as he is very opposed to a money based system. Are you suggesting we try to form some sort of community monasteries where we live as a large organized family each with our own chores and responsibilities? How would the seniors contribute in such a system, what about education, medicine, transportation etc.?

May 20, 2012 at 5:54 am #3413

Reverse Engineer

Golden Oxen post=3024 wrote: Look at the 100 billion they just created out of thin air with that Facebook fantasy they dumped on the sheeple yesterday!

The $100B created in the Facepalm IPO will last about as long as the average Foxconn worker lasts making Iphones before committing Sepukku. The ONLY reason that stock is not ALREADY in the toilet is because Morgan Stanley is backstopping it.

RE

http://www.doomsteaddiner.com

May 20, 2012 at 6:04 am #3414

Reverse Engineer

[quote=TheTrivium4TW post=3021][quote=Reverse Engineer post=3007]I napalmed the latest trash off the keyboard of Ambrose earlier today at the Tomaine Poisoning Table in the Diner in the AEP: Illuminati Shill thread.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/forum/index.php?topic=330.0

Hi RE, I’ve been thinking about your view of money and I think our views are moving closer and closer the more I evaluate it.

Before I said that money “greases the skids” of the innate human selfish factor.

I think that visual is a gross understatement. Money doesn’t “grease the skids” as much as it is a “hyper-accelerant” for the selfishness that resides in humanity.

Think of human selfishness as the seed and the money as the fertilizer, water and sunshine.

I think that analogy works much better.

I’m fine with the Seed/Fertilizer analogy. Another good one is the Catalyst Analogy. In that one, certain reactions cannot occur or occur only infinetisimally slowly in the absence of a catalyst.

The point be here that whatever the PRECISE genesis is of the Origin of Evil, it is quite clear that in the presence of Money, Evil grows MUCH more rapidly. So if you want a society where Evil does NOT grow at such a rapid rate, you gotta get rid of the Catalyst for it, or get rid of the Fertilizer/water etc however you want to make the analogy is fine.

By no means will getting rid of money solve ALL problems, and in fact given the current organizational parameters it is going to create a whole lot of other problems. Regardless of that, if you have a system which is CLEARLY doing great damage to Human Society, you MUST try something else. SOON. time is running out.

RE

May 20, 2012 at 7:02 am #3415

Golden Oxen

Error Double Posting Sorry

May 20, 2012 at 7:09 am #3416

Golden Oxen

The $100B created in the Facepalm IPO will last about as long as the average Foxconn worker lasts making Iphones before committing Sepukku. The ONLY reason that stock is not ALREADY in the toilet is because Morgan Stanley is backstopping it.

True RE, but that doesn’t alter the fact it has been money created. When MS lets it get flushed you can also bet the bansters will all score big time shorting the hell out of it.

May 20, 2012 at 4:27 pm #3418

Golden Oxen

From Ray Dalio renowned successful investor
Saturday, May 19, 8:31 AM Ray Dalio explains the concept of a beautiful deleveraging and why the U.S. is in one, but the EU, not so much. He expects the ECB will ultimately print money and produce another big rally, “but this is a tougher time to be very confident about that scenario.” An “uncivilized” man, Dalio remains a fan of gold, recommending most have 10% of their assets in the metal.
It’s hard to imagine anyone navigating the rough seas of the past decade more ably than Ray Dalio, master and commander of money-management firm Bridgewater Associates, which oversees $120 billion for a roster of global clients that include foreign governments, pension funds and endowments.

The Westport, Conn.-based company is the world’s largest hedge-fund firm and one of just a handful of players to place more than one fund on Barron’s annual Top 100 Hedge Funds ranking. This year Bridgewater’s flagship Pure Alpha II and its All Weather @12% global macro funds both make the list.

May 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm #3419

TheTrivium4TW

Reverse Engineer post=3028 wrote:
I’m fine with the Seed/Fertilizer analogy. Another good one is the Catalyst Analogy. In that one, certain reactions cannot occur or occur only infinetisimally slowly in the absence of a catalyst.

The point be here that whatever the PRECISE genesis is of the Origin of Evil, it is quite clear that in the presence of Money, Evil grows MUCH more rapidly. So if you want a society where Evil does NOT grow at such a rapid rate, you gotta get rid of the Catalyst for it, or get rid of the Fertilizer/water etc however you want to make the analogy is fine.

By no means will getting rid of money solve ALL problems, and in fact given the current organizational parameters it is going to create a whole lot of other problems. Regardless of that, if you have a system which is CLEARLY doing great damage to Human Society, you MUST try something else. SOON. time is running out.

RE

And I thought I **hated* Federal Reserve enslavement notes before. -lol-

They really do represent the most the most sophisticated implementation of evil that humanity has ever devised.

“For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil” – and that all kinds of evil “tree” is one big behemoth right now that is getting ready to fall and crush us all.

The flip side of this reality is that money ought to be the one thing that the people watch more closely than anything else since it is so closely associated with being a catalyst of and accelerating evil across the globe… but the chumptocracies we all live in don’t have a clue.

The money power empire that runs this con game isn’t about to tell you as they obsess over reducing population.

But they wouldn’t do anything dastardly or underhanded like toxify the water, toxify the food, toxify medicine, attack or ignore nutrition and hormonal balanced eating… no, these criminals who want billions dead are *nice people* ™.

So don’t go look at the actual data and logic, just repeat the narrative that Big Finance Capital paid so much to put in front of you.

Sheeple.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2831533/posts

I usually posted the Yahoo link, but it looks this link was getting too many hits so it was taken down.

Some sheeple are waking up to the wolves.

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