Mar 202019

Johannes Vermeer The lacemaker 1669-71


You could probably say I’m sympathetic to the schoolchildren protesting against climate change, and I’m sympathetic to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her call for a Green New Deal. Young people are the future, and they deserve a voice about that future. At the same time, I’m also deeply skeptical about their understanding of the issues they talk about.

In fact, I don’t see much understanding at all. I think that’s because they base their comprehension of the world they’ve been born into on information provided by the very people they’re now protesting against. Look kids, your education system sucks, it was designed by those destroying your planet, you need to shake it off and get something better.

But I know what you will do instead: you’re going to get the ‘proper’ education to get a nice-paying job, with a nice car (green, of course) and a nice house etc etc. In other words, you will, at least most of you, be the problem, not solve it. And no shift towards wind or solar will make one iota of difference in that. Want to improve the world? Improve the education system first.


Climate change is just one of an entire array of problems the world faces, and in the same way the use of fossil fuels is just one of many causes of these problems. And focusing on only one aspect of a much broader challenge simply doesn’t appear to be a wise approach, if only because you risk exacerbating some problems while trying to fix others.

In order to fix what’s broken, you’re first going to have to find out what broke it. The impression I get is that fossil fuels have been named the designated culprit, and people think that if only we have access to some other form(s) of energy we’ll be fine. But species extinction appears to be at least as large an issue as climate change, and the loss of 60% of all vertebrates, and 90% of flying insects in some places, since 1970 is linked to climate change only sideways.



It’s one thing to run into problems you could not have foreseen. It’s quite another to run into them because you elected to ignore readily available knowledge. But it’s the latter issue that’s behind by far most of the problems we’re running into. Because, again, our education system is broken.

And perhaps we should try to be forgiving when well-meaning children and young politicians don’t have a full grasp of political and economic issues heaped upon them by older generations. But physics? That you can only and always ignore at your own peril.

The First Law of Thermodynamics says energy cannot be created or destroyed; the total quantity of energy in the universe stays the same. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that the use of energy produces waste (because entropy tends to increase). Neither law talks about fossil fuels.

This brings me once more to one of my favorite quotes of all time (because it explains so much):

“Erwin Schrodinger (1945) has described life as a system in steady-state thermodynamic disequilibrium that maintains its constant distance from equilibrium (death) by feeding on low entropy from its environment – that is, by exchanging high-entropy outputs for low-entropy inputs. The same statement would hold verbatium as a physical description of our economic process. A corollary of this statement is that an organism cannot live in a medium of its own waste products.”
– Herman Daly and Kenneth Townsend

And unfortunately, as I’ve said before in Mass Extinction and Mass Insanity:

What drives our economies is waste. Not need, or even demand. Waste. 2nd law of thermodynamics. It drives our lives, period.

Not only do we produce waste with every calorie of energy we burn, our economic systems depend on us burning as much as we can. We ‘optimized’ them for it. Energy efficiency is the enemy of our economies. We transport ourselves in vehicles that are 20 times our own weight, and that use only 10% of the fuel we put in them for the purpose of transporting us. That’s what keep the economic engine going. It’s also what destroys the planet.


There’s probably no moment of deeper despair for the world than when I see a Swedish schoolgirl and a Dutch historian pop up at Davos to tell the billionaires and power hungry ‘the truth’. Davos is the last place to be when you have good intentions. All those people owe their money and power to the system you say you’re protesting. You think they’re going to give it up, or even risk it?

What those people will tell you, and what many of you are already parroting (check the Green New Deal), is that ‘going green’ will be a very profitable undertaking. Get the best of both worlds and eat it too. Tempting, for sure, but also incredibly stupid.

I covered that before as well in Heal the Planet for Profit, in which I cited an article by Michael Bloomberg and Mark Carney literally called How To Make A Profit From Defeating Climate Change.

That epitomizes the Davos crowd. Stay away from that. There’s nothing for you there. They just want you to be inefficient in the use of another form of energy, only more this time. “We’re going to use a huge sh*tload of fossil fuels to build an infrastructure that allows us to use less fossil fuels.” Darn, that makes a lot of sense. “We’re saved!”.

See, saving the planet, and all the species we’re eradicating as we speak, will at the very least require an enormous decline in energy use. Because that’s the only way to reduce waste production. But that in turn will mean a huge hit to the current economic system, which cannot continue without the principle of maximizing waste production that it’s based on.

There appears to be a principle in nature that says when you hand a species an X amount of ‘free’ energy, that species will burn through it as fast as it can. Perhaps that’s simply a move towards equilibrium. The species will maximize energy use per individual, and proliferate, create more individuals, it’s a very predictable process, from bacteria in a petri-dish to the human species.

So maybe it cannot be helped, or stopped. But you can try. It’s just that, if you want to do that, you’re not going to achieve it by insulting your own, and my, intelligence through the complete disregard for the laws of physics, the most reliable gauges we have when it comes to understanding our world and the impact we have on it.

That goes for the schoolchildren, and it goes for Ocasio-Cortez and other Green New Deal proponents too: ask yourself what physics says about it. Ask yourself what will happen to the economy. Never presume it will be easy or even profitable. You’re not going to save the planet for profit; you’ll have to find a different incentive.

And get educated. But forget about universities, they’re one of the leading drivers behind the mess you find yourselves in.





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    Johannes Vermeer The lacemaker 1669-71   You could probably say I’m sympathetic to the schoolchildren protesting against climate change, and I’m
    [See the full post at: Green New Physics]

    John Day

    We are at another cusp in history where the economic arrangement is on it’s last legs, failing around the edges and in pockets, without any reliability going forward.
    This now applies to a truly global economy, mostly controlled by global capitalists, through global multinational corporations, and political “contributions” and the deep state..
    Human perceptions have not kept up with that business model. We are social animals, who work in groups of a size where we can know all of the other members, and not just by name, but from experience.
    We have limits to what and who we can know, and limits to how clearly we can think about our world, and limits to how clearly we can consider future scenarios.
    The ruling elites who own us have about the same human limits, but very different power at their disposal.
    Their interests are at odds with our interests. Their role is to manipulate us to serve their interests.
    The first prerogative of the power elites is to own what people need to live. They ration food, water and fuel.
    We can see the utility in that, but their ownership is presented as an absolute, not a social utility.
    In order to maintain ownership and rationing of wealth, the owners need to have a monopoly, or near monopoly on the use of violence.
    They need to kill threats to their authority sometimes.
    Periodically the end of a financial/economic regime leads to the necessity of a reset, the development of a new form of economy, which efficiently suits the current needs of people and availability of resources, and has what looks like a few generations of stability, going forward.
    This change of financial/economic regime is really hard, because it only happens when there is not enough to go around, and making the adjustments means dismantling parts of the process of provision of food, water and fuel, so there is even less.
    Members of a society, or a nation have agreed rights to their life-supporting rations of food, water and fuel.
    The owner-class have the vast rights, which are threatened by the pressing needs of so very many other people who are acutely shorted of what they need to live.
    Desperate people are willing to kill for their basic needs at that point.
    We reach a point where we are ready to mass and mass-murder to be assured of what we need.
    This is no secret to the intelligent owners, and the very bright people they hire to think for them and control the rest of us (think Dick Cheney).
    Throughout history the owners/rulers have faced the difficult decision of how to maintain their own position, and survive, when the people they own and rule are at the point of desperate need, and ready to murder for what they need.
    It has been straightforward. Find somebody who has some food water and fuel, and convince your slaves/people that it is rightfully theirs, and they need to kill the current holders to reclaim their birthright.
    Alternatively, the people do the French Revolution on the king and nobles.
    That second alternative, revolution against the power elites is gradually gaining favor in France.
    The ruling elites tried ignoring the masses, tossing them a little bone, waiting through the winter weather, and have been ramping up the violence against the protesters, while claiming that the protesters are violent, and a threat to society.
    They need help to make that case, like the “black bloc” agents provocateur, who come into the peaceful Yellow Vest protests and destroy and burn.
    The police then shoot rubber bullets and rubber grenades to maim and blind, at the Yellow Vests, not the black bloc.
    The European working class knows this. The more affluent professional class does not know this and does not want to know this.
    None of these usual measures seems to be working much these days.
    The French can’t really go to war with the Germans or Italians.
    They destroyed Libya (oil) and helped with destroying Iraq (oil) and are helping in the faltering destruction of Syria (gas pipeline, oil, location).
    Push will come to shove when the global economic can can’t be kicked down the road one more time.
    People everywhere feel the tension.
    Some people in some places have guns. “Ooops” for owners.
    “Controlling the narrative” is critical for the owners going forward, and they do tests of narrative changes, measure the responses on social media, tailor those responses as much as they can, and try again if it doesn’t look good enough. They have tried a lot by now.
    The needs of the narrative are internally conflicted.
    In the status quo, the people need to be divided against each other, so the rulers can feed and mediate the tension and exercise control.
    In the US this was South vs North, black vs white, and so on, but it really wore out after WW-2, the last time that the whole country had to be united to fight an external enemy.
    America is pretty big. It’s really not natural for us to go fight external enemies and die on foreign shores and stuff.
    Really, and demonstrably in America and the world, it is the military which is using up so much of the resources people need to live, and slaughtering millions of brown people in oil places, to gain control of the oil we all need to eat to live.
    We do basically eat oil, with our vast mechanized farming system running on diesel, chemical fertilizers, and V-8 powered water pumps draining fossil water reservoirs which are starting to run dry.
    The vast mechanized food growing system is not strictly necessary for anybody to survive. It is a military tool of the owner class, along with Reaper drones and F-35s. The purpose of the vast field of cheaply produced corn and wheat is to bankrupt farmers of the vassal countries, so those countries rely upon grain from the United States to feed their people.
    Kissinger, Nixon and Secretary of Agriculture (“get big or get out”) Earl Butz came up with that plan.
    It bankrupted most American farmers, but Cargill is doing fine.
    The problem that the globalist elite owners face is that their holdings are the only big bunch of fuel, food and water for the desperate people of the world to expropriate.
    Their holdings do not save and rationally distribute the wealth of the world in good times and bad, as did the Great Inca.
    The current global elite squander the oil, water and mineral resources of the world for murder and destruction, just to maintain their position as owners, and protect it from projected rivals in their same league.
    What the elites do need to maintain their ownership status is the loyalty of the top 10% to 20% of the population, the professional and managerial class.
    It is really hard to come up with any narrative which presents a rational case for the current level of military and industrial-agricultural support for the globalist elites and their servants in politics and industry. They are still trying.
    We, the humans of this fair planet, need to work together for the common good, and not cut each other’s throats for the owners.
    We do currently have communication networks which allow for the living creation of other narratives, based on somewhat more truth than the “New World Order” narrative.
    The most difficult and critical step is for the top 20%, the professional and managerial classes, to look for systemic efficiencies, which will reduce their absolute wealth in the short term, to create a more stable social order for their kids and grandkids.
    The elites seem to be effectively blocking this kind of meeting of the minds with identity politics and squabbles about virtue signaling among the mid-wealthy, selfish grasping.
    Individuals an take their own steps towards a future of burning less fuel, using less plastic, and growing more vegetables at home.
    I am bike commuting and growing vegetables at home, and at work, where people can see that it is possible and normal.
    I’m also starting it up in the smaller town of Yoakum, where there is good soil and climate.
    Grow more vegetables in the good places, especially.
    I am currently fortunate to be able to take these steps, right now. It is my responsibility.
    I am just passing through this world. I am a transient life form. I don’t really “own” pieces of this world, to defend by violence.
    Minor narrative battles are also being fought. This is necessary to keep destroying potential threats to the elite power structure.
    People in the US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada have guns.
    The elites needed that 200 to 300 years ago, but it now poses a threat to their power going forward, when the people with guns see who stole the stuff they need to live.
    We keep getting stories about how all the people need to relinquish their guns, so that a few people will not shoot innocents in post offices and places of worship.
    I am not a violent revolutionary, have no use for a gun, and no interest in owning them. I was raised on military bases, and went to the rifle range with Dad every Tuesday, and have the hearing damage to prove it. I did hunt deer for food as a teenager on my Grandfather’s ranch, and did all that a responsible hunter does, field dressing the fresh kills, and so on.
    As a doctor, I have sometimes been in the struggle for life against death when people have been shot with guns, including high powered rifles.
    People shot with high powered rifles mostly bleed to death, but might drop unconscious in 10 seconds if their heart is shot.
    I always killed with a heart lung shot. The deer would sprint 10 seconds and drop still.
    Head shots are harder to be sure of, but they happen, and I killed a deer this way once, when it was injured jumping a fence on the neighbor’s property, sold to him by my Grandfather. Morgan came over Thanksgiving morning at dawn to ask us to deal with a spike buck who had crippled himself trying to jump a fence in the night.
    I went over and saw the right rear leg dislocation. He could not stand, and scrambled with his front legs trying.
    I sat with the deer and looked in his gentle brown eyes, and talked, and cared that he was in this predicament.
    I brought him water to drink, and went back to be with the family until after Thanksgiving dinner, having made a good friend.
    When I returned after midday dinner, with a small automatic pistol of Dad’s, I was resolute in my mission, and compassionate. I had killed many lab rats compassionately in med school research. Our eyes met with warmth about 25 feet away, and he turned his head away from me and held still.
    I carefully shot him at the base of his skull, to destroy his brainstem and centers of perception, to immediately end his life of suffering.
    The body of the young deer flipped and flopped around on the ground violently. I waited half a minute. It still flopped.
    I shot him in the head again. Flopping changed some. I had to wait over a minute for it to stop.
    I still feel the soul of that young deer and see his warm brown eyes. I had already stopped eating mammals years before we met. We were friends.

    At this point, I would like to comment on my one time, careful viewing, without audio, of the 16 minute New Zealand Mosque shooting video.
    About 6 minutes is shooting, with the first and last parts being driving around and getting guns in and out of the car.
    I do not see convincing evidence, from just the shooting part of the video, that it is real. I am not stating that it is false, but it has lots of aspects which suggest that it might be staged.
    Firstly, every single body is face down. You cannot see any single face, which could be identified by facial recognition software, in the many people who are lying still, perfectly still on the floor. The shooter revisits them several times for a closer look. All face down; all still.
    People fall in impossible positions when shot with a high powered rifle.
    They need to be re-positioned to administer first aid. I have done this.
    A lot of them will be face up, trying to breathe.
    Some will flip and flop if shot in the head or neck.
    There will be gaping exit wounds where the bullet tore out the other side of the body.
    I saw none of those features in the video. It appeared that all of the bodies had chosen their positions, or had been laid neatly face down.
    If you choose to look, that is what you will see. I turned off the sound before starting. the video is choppy, and has the look of way more bullets being fired than the clips we see would possibly hold. All of the shooting is at enough of a distance to obscure details.

    Oh well; it worked last night. The link has gone dead. That’s what I saw.


    I never heard the wisdom expressed by John Lennon (1968).
    I was busy trying to live.
    I did not look into music to find wisdom. I was busy trying to put food on the table.

    “I think all our society is run by insane people for insane objectives… I think we’re being run by maniacs for maniacal means. … I think they’re all insane. But I’m liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That’s what’s insane about it.” —John Lennon (1968)

    Should we expect more from the children?

    And get educated. But forget about universities, they’re one of the leading drivers behind the mess you find yourselves in.
    Yesterday We got educated at university.
    Today ….
    Now, we live in a time where knowledge and wisdom is so easily available that its like white noise.

    Are the children reading, listening, and learning? TAE? ZH?
    Are the children too busy?

    Who are the mentors for the children?

    Who are the commentators at ZH? Children?

    In other news
    If the opioid problem was only among the homeless. Then there would no longer be a homeless problem.

    It takes a lot of money to have a drug habit. What is not being told is that it takes the income of a university education to be able to support a drugs habit.
    On April 14, 2016, B.C.’s Provincial Health Officer, Dr. Perry Kendall, declared the opioid crisis a public health emergency in B.C. In 2016, 931 British Columbians died from overdoses. There were 216 deaths in Vancouver alone. Fentanyl was detected in approximately 60% of the deaths in B.C. in 2016 (Coroners Service, 2017). The illicit overdose death rate in 2016 is an 80% increase over 2015, when 513 British Columbians died of overdoses. Fentanyl was detected in approximately 30% of the 2015 cases (Coroners Service, 2017). At the end of March 2017, there had been 347 overdose deaths in B.C.
    Overdose fatalities are now the leading cause of unnatural deaths in B.C., and are increasing nationally as the spread of opioid analogues moves east from Western Canada.


    I agree with much of your essay; not with what comes across at times as determined contrariness. Yes, youngsters are probably not thoroughly informed, and they likely don’t get the implications of their rhetoric on their life-styles; their dependence on energy-guzzling smart-phones for one. But I am thrilled with what a 16-year with intellectual integrity, with an acute sense of priorities, and inability to compromise has achieved. (… and may her Asperger’s drive her on).

    I might wonder at the Dutch historian’s true motivations for his Davos shenanigans, but Greta seems to me one of those genetic freaks of nature that ecosystems tend to produce under severe stress – a pure catalyst. Davos may not be a setting you’d consider but … put yourself in the mind of a hard-headed 16-year-old looking for the right knee to kick, and you can’t argue it was an important step in mobilising over a million youngsters from Karachi to Kazakstan. And … I don’t think her success was strategically planned, but rather born of her sense of urgency – I rather think she took a crazy step out of frustration, and on a hope and a prayer.

    I’m not so naive as to believe the kids will come up with the magic wand that will resolve this mess, but I do feel that it is by engaging with an effort to deal with this existential impasse that mankind will come face-to-face with its own failings, and ultimately make some dramatic shifts in our own relationship with the planetary ecosystem we are largely unconscious parts of. And it may come too late to change the outcome, but perhaps not too late to grow into more conscious life-forms.

    Here’s a quote from Ms Thunberg in answer to criticism, which strikes me as characteristically to the point, and suggests she’s advocating for a much more thorough transformation than clean energy alone. She feels (unlike you) that political, educational, economic … etc. change will come as a result of mankind focusing on developing clean energy, rather than as a consequence.

    “People keep asking me ‘What is the solution to the climate crisis?’. They expect me to know the answer. That is beyond absurd, as there are no ‘solutions’ within our current systems.

    “We need a whole new way of thinking. The political system that you [adults] have created is all about competition. You cheat when you can because all that matters is to win. That must come to an end.”

    P.S. And … I appreciate your work, and your daily aggregation of stimulating material! It may be disagreement with you that nudged me over the line to sign-up and engage, after years of passive reception, but I wouldn’t have bothered had I not gotten to appreciate your thinking over several years.


    Excellent and sad post Raul.I would emphasize that the kernel of the “problem” is fossil energy, oil primarily. Changing the educational system is a worthy aim but wont alter the trajectory. This suicidal self organizing system is not under the control of anyone. It might be like the trigger of a thermonuclear bomb. Once triggered the reaction will proceed to final entropy. the only way to stop this galloping juggernaut is to break its legs. How do you break the legs of fossil ag, corporate computerized computation,automobile driven sprawl, greed driven inequality, the imperial military industrial complex? Remember Viet Nam’s rationale. We had to try to destroy it to save it. The circulatory system of the globalized economy will have to be cut off to stop the economic monster from continuing its path of destruction. It will eventually have to end but with a bang or with a whimper, who can know. I weep for Gretta Thunberg and her generation who have figured out they are being screwed and don’t know what to do but scream.


    The young can see the hipocracy of adults without any education at all. “Do as I say, not as I do,” gives the biggest hint. “You will understand when you are older”. This means when your pay depends on it, you’ll come around. We don’t really have to consume everything, but we will. The universe is all energy, but it is busy being itself. There are costs in converting it to human use, repurposing it to some permanent end state waste like microplastics. Ironic that older, tribal cultures could think out for seven generations while spreadsheet educated ones can only do a fiscal quarter. The Emperor’s New Clothes story is not up to a demonstration of the many deceived and the deceivers. The Cargo Cult awaits arrival of free energy via the magic of technology, which already has such a great record of accelerating the need for more energy and the creation of waste. If those kids had been listened to in the 1960s we wouldn’t have all the economic benefits of war.


    I promised I wouldn’t reply, but your post is too good. Great job.
    *China ≠ Asia*
    China is the one of largest investors in oil.
    Petro chemical use is growing 7X human population 1990 – 2030.
    Euro/American men are becoming sterile feminized and stupid from petro-chemical use.
    Most Euro/American men will be sterile by 2050.
    Social media is turning us into depressed idiots.
    China cut solar panel production in half.
    China is building 700 coal plants outside of China in Asia and Africa.
    China is building 400 nuclear power plants from 2010 to 2050.
    China is building mega inroads to Africa Asia and Europe.
    Europe just claimed Huawei good.
    In 2017 U.S. coal exports to Asia went up 61%.

    The US is the #1 exporter of coal, oil and gas.
    All the world’s population and energy growth is in Asia and Africa.

    Oil demand will go up 10% by 2030 and emissions will go up 15% by 2030 because of them.
    Claire Fyson said emissions must go down 50% in 10 yrs to avoid 1.5C.
    Stefan Rahmstorf said emissions must go down 100% in 20 yrs to avoid 2.0C.
    Hans Schellnhuber said 5 major hothouse tipping points start below 2.0C.
    Runaway hothouse cannot be stopped or reversed once started.
    Mass extinction cannot be stopped or reversed once started.
    All solar/wind power is only 1.5% of total world energy after 30 yrs of trying.
    Emissions went up 60% after 30 yrs of trying to reduce them.
    World Socialism is too slow to save climate.
    50% of Europe’s renewable energy comes from burning trees, 8% of diesel fuel includes palm oil.

    The Real Climate Conspiracy

    Feminzed sterile invertebrates


    Video looks weird to say at least;
    What had caught my eye at the first news was the still of the weaponry in the car trunk which had, among others who fought against Islam through out the history, the Cyrillic written name of the Serbian Kosovo battle hero from 630 years ago In the video it appears that guy is a lover of Serbian turbo-folk.


    Greta has raised the issue, when elders have not been listened to. She speaks to the kids who will quickly figure out all you have mentioned and more. They will “educate” themselves, and are doing so right now. Her comment is spot on.

    “We need a whole new way of thinking. The political system that you [adults] have created is all about competition. You cheat when you can because all that matters is to win. That must come to an end.”


    Brazza – thanks for the quotes!

    “People keep asking me ‘What is the solution to the climate crisis?’. They expect me to know the answer. That is beyond absurd, as there are no ‘solutions’ within our current systems. – Greta

    Most people I know are taking the GND as a jumping off place to educate others. Most people realize that using rare earths and ignoring EROI is not a solution, when they stop to think about it. More are beginning to talk about Deep Adaptation, and localization of solutions.


    I got the time to search.
    Not every thing is bad about being able to access info
    You got the time. Do what the children cannot do.

    Petroleum is a fossil fuel derived from ancient fossilized organic materials, such as zooplankton and algae.
    Crude oil may also be found in a semi-solid form mixed with sand and water, as in the Athabasca oil sands in Canada, where it is usually referred to as crude bitumen. In Canada, bitumen is considered a sticky, black, tar-like form of crude oil which is so thick and heavy that it must be heated or diluted before it will flow.[48] Venezuela also has large amounts of oil in the Orinoco oil sands, although the hydrocarbons trapped in them are more fluid than in Canada and are usually called extra heavy oil. These oil sands resources are called unconventional oil to distinguish them from oil which can be extracted using traditional oil well methods. Between them, Canada and Venezuela contain an estimated 3.6 trillion barrels (570×109 m3) of bitumen and extra-heavy oil, about twice the volume of the world’s reserves of conventional oil.

    While LS9 appears to be focusing on building bacterial factories to directly synthesize crude oil, Amyris are taking the opportunity to explore the engineering potential of developing cheaper, cleaner and more powerful biofuels. This approach seeks to optimize the product rather than replicating the random nature of crude.


    “American life style is non-negotiable”. That quote is so true, but not in a sense that Dick was thinking about but in reality of a “triangle” of a house (mortgage) – job – car to get to, which is an essence of existence of many. As hard as I wish that it may not happen, path to reset is over extremely turbulent and violent period first.
    There is a dose of naivete in slogans: “Just bring the troops home!”, “Lock ’em (bad actors) up!” or the rush with gotchya comparison like: “What if Russians install their base right at the Mex border.” as if those things just happen naturally or logic makes thinks turn right.



    I would emphasize that the kernel of the “problem” is fossil energy..

    My essay I think says it’s not. Or rather, it’s energy, all of it, not just fossil energy. Anything above and beyond what you can provide with your body, on a daily basis, is not sustainable. Now if you take that car of yours, which weighs 20x what you so and uses just 10% of what you put in for the job you want it to do, it all gets much clearer. Any and all free energy is a dead alley in evolution. And we’re in the mother of all dead alleys. We’re using 10-20-1000 times more energy than we ourselves can generate.

    And there’s no indication that I can see that says we can keep doing this with any other energy source than fossil fuels. Nothing says we can swap oil for wind and solar. Not unless huge amounts of fossils are involved.


    See, there’s a theoretical option that we could run some sort of society that resembles ours on the basis of renewables, but only with heavy support form fossils. However, that is strictly the physics aspect of it. There is zero chance the present economic system could possibly survive that for more than a few days at best.


    I would agree Raul .Most highly intelligent people I follow besides yourself hold your opinion like Gail and Ugo and others but I see oil as the lynchpin of it all as transportation is 95% oil. The other fossil and non fossil energy sources primarily just give electricity with gas heating BUILDINGS AS WELL AS electricity TURBINES. Oil is so wasteful as a transportation energy but it induces other energy sources for concrete and steel for roads and sprawl and is the basis of transport of goods and growing food and mining the other fossil fuels. Fortunately it may be the first source to drop out by virtue of scarcity. I consider BIG AG to be an enormous part of the problem because Big AG is destroying the soils of the world and poisoning and killing the soil organisms and water. Soil fungi particularly have the ability to pull CO2 out of the air and infuse it into the soil through root exudates but a chemical herbicide like roundup can knock out 50 % of Aspergilus Nidulans fungi if applied at 1%(!!) of Monsantos’s recommended dosage. At only 2% it kill 100% of that fungi.Roundup has been described as an antibiotic masquerading as a herbicide. My point is that the evils of big AG far exceed just the energy it uses and killing the soil will induce famine and it wont matter if you have a Tesla to get to the supermarket if the shelves are empty.(did I get off subject?!!).Your point that ALL energy use must be sharply curtailed to offer any hope of mitigating planet pollution but doing so will collapse the industrial economy. Joseph Heller laid all this out in his famous novel. Do you want me to tell Gretta and Alexandria OC or will you do it for me?

    V. Arnold

    Education is the key to everything; but it’s been broken since about 1853. It was around that era when forced education was made into law in the U.S..
    The (I hate the term) founding fathers (gag) were almost all, autodidacts.
    True autodidacts are a rarity in the western world today; pity; but for the most part they are shunned; lacking membership in the club (university diploma).
    One of the very best (IMO) reads is John Taylor Gato’s; The Underground History of American Education.
    A genuine revelation…
    Here’s a link to a free audio book of Gato’s writing:

    Personally, I gave up on university after 3 attempts; stultifying at best…

    I think it’s entirely possible industrial agriculture will do us in before climate change; we’re well on our way to toxicide as I write this…

    V. Arnold
    Dr. D

    I guess a thought experiment for Raul’s idea is to imagine that we invented zero-point free energy. Now we can use as much energy as we want, worldwide. What would happen?

    Although CO2 free, I guarantee in no time the waste energy (entropy) thrown off by these new energy-injecting motors would overheat the planet, just as now, but perhaps with another 7 Billion humans, just as now. So in a closed system, as the earth is, the only possible solution is to come into balance with it at some level or another.

    However, what we’re experiencing isn’t a human fault, a moral failing: it’s the way of nature. Systems always fluctuate around an equilibrium with the foxes and rabbits being too many and too few in turn. We just have the illusion we’re smarter than that, we’re not part of nature, not part of the system, and therefore should be nailed to the bullseye of this target we cannot measure always and forever without variation. Like the Fed, interest rates, and other central planners. But we are not machines, we’re not robots, WE are nature, and what happens to them happens to us.

    Perhaps Asimov has a Sci-fi on free energy, but I guarantee you it would be the worst thing ever invented. Humility is far superior. But the culture has gone psychotic, divorced from reality, believing “man” and “nature” are not the same, and can ever be separated. They are like Agent Smith in the Matrix, hating what they in fact are, down to the bone, and so wanting to destroy it all.


    Unlimited energy, or zero-point free energy, would be the death knell for the planet. Because it would mean unlimited waste. The 2nd law leaves no doubt about that. People who focus on oil often overlook this. I have repeated it only 1,000 times.

    christopher cobb

    Cory Morningstar has an excellent series on the fascist fraud that is the green new deal…..

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