Jun 212019
 
 June 21, 2019  Posted by at 8:24 pm Primers Tagged with: , , , , , , , , , , ,


Pablo Picasso Femme aux bras leves- Tête de Dora Maar- 1936

 

As a nation, you’re certifiedly (is that a word?!) in deep trouble if and when Donald Trump is your most peaceloving man. But nevertheless, that is America today. It all harks back to the days when Trump was first -grudgingly and painstakingly- recognized as an actual presidential candidate.

He campaigned as a man who would end the costly and neverending decades-old and counting US wars far away from American shores and territory. He hasn’t lived up to those campaign goals at all, far from it, and he hired doofuses like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo to show everyone that he didn’t, but in the early hours of June 21 2019 he apparently decided at the last minute that it just didn’t add up.

You don’t kill 150 people because someone destroyed a piece of machinery, he got that right. I vividly remember writing a hundred times that a country of 320 million people that can’t come up with a better president than Trump has a behemoth problem. I also remember saying that Trump himself is not that problem, it’s the system that gave rise to him and his popularity. A war-hungry-system, that is, which has pervaded Washington DC.

And there is absolutely nothing that tells me anything has changed in that system. There are hearings and investigations all over the place, right now from Hope Hicks to Jerry Nadler, but none of them are geared towards trying to make peace with Iran or Russia or China, or anyone else. None.

 

Trump’s domestic opponents don’t appear to want peace, not those in the Democratic party, and not those in the MSM, or at least not anyone I’ve seen, other than Tulsi Gabbard. I haven’t seen a word from Nadler or Pelosi trying to coax Trump away from bomb bombing Iran, and diddly squat from the NYT or WashPo either. But sure, tell me what you’ve seen that contradicts that.

Which means he’s on his own, fighting off not only Bolton and Pompeo, but the entire opposition as well. So far he’s done just that. But how much longer can he, when both sides of the aisle continue to call for blood? I find that a hard call to make. I don’t think Trump wants his presidency to be about starting WWIII, but there are so many others calling on him to make it just that.

I said a while ago to a friend that the US invading Iran would be the end of the US, not in 2 days or week, or even 2 years, but in 20 years surely. Because doing so would change the entire power structure in the Middle East so much it would become unrecognizable.

The terribly odd couple of Benjamin Netanyahu and MBS may think they can conquer the region if only Trump sends Americans kids to die there, but they’re as wrong as they are about anything else. Iran is where it is, and it won’t move or budge. It’s just 40 years ago the country rid itself from the US-installed Shah and his SS-like Savak secret services.

Iranians, Persians, have a very deep-seated aversion and -to put it exceedingly mildly- hatred of the US, and they have good reason to. The Shah unleashed pure terror upon “his” entire people, at the benefit of US Big Oil.

 

The only constructive thing the US can do at this point in time is to go talk to Iran, in open and honest discussions. The US will want to do that because Iran is the heart of the Middle East. Just ask Russia and China, they understand that point. Very well even.

Bombing Iran won’t lead to anything at all, other than the demise of the US, down the road. These people will not succumb, and Russia and China will make sure they won’t have to. And Trump’s declaration of US military capabilities being “superior” is just words (or as they say stateside “hogwash”).

The US military ceased being “superior” a long time ago, simply because Raytheon and Boeing et al develop weapons for profit, whereas Russia and China develop them for defense purposes, and at 10% of the price. That single “little” difference will do the US in. Promise.

America needs to start talking. About trade, about weapons, about everything. Maybe Trump can do that. Maybe not. But he won’t be able to do anything by threatening countries like iran who already have nothing left but their backs to a wall.

Trump appears to have some good points vis-a-vis China and trade talks. He has some very bad points vs Russia and the sanctions. He MUST retreat when it comes to Iran, because it would become a much deeper swamp than Washington could ever be.

And it would end any idea of a positive legacy of his presidency. And his grand kids would be far worse off. And and and. But if he would do it regardless, it would only be an extension of US presidential politics as it has has been going on for many decades. So what’s to win, and what’s to lose? You trust a 73-year old burger flipper with that assessment?

 

 

 

 

Home Forums Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran

This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  PlanetaryCitizen 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #48098

    Pablo Picasso Femme aux bras leves- Tête de Dora Maar- 1936   As a nation, you’re certifiedly (is that a word?!) in deep trouble if and when Dona
    [See the full post at: Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran]

    #48099

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    The only constructive thing the US can do at this point in time is to go talk to Iran, in open and honest discussions. The US will want to do that because Iran is the heart of the Middle East. Just ask Russia and China, they understand that point. Very well even.

    …or the U.S. could pull back, shut up, and focus on its own festering infrastructure…
    Nah, that’s no fun, carry on…
    😉

    #48100

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    The US will want to do that because Iran is the heart of the Middle East. Just ask Russia and China, they understand that point. Very well even.

    But, isn’t that exactly the problem? On one level, I think the U.S. fully understands that Iran is the heart; which makes Iran a major adversary. The U.S. will do almost anything to break up that alliance to stop BRI.
    A successful BRI will complete the end of the U.S. hegemon. That end has already started and it would seem the hegemon is in full panic mode; it came very close to a catastrophic attack last night.
    I have a hard time believing it was Trump who actually stopped that attack…
    I guess we’ll see……..

    #48102

    teri
    Participant

    “You don’t kill 150 people because someone destroyed a piece of machinery, he got that right.”

    Trump told Chuck Todd that he decided not to bomb Iran because to do so might kill 150 Iranians.

    Then he sent out a series of tweets to explain it, starting with a tweet about how we were “cocked and loaded” (the expression is “locked and loaded”, but hey, this is the Trump version of colloquialisms here).

    “We were cocked [sic] & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights [sic] when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD! President Obama made a desperate and terrible deal with Iran – Gave them 150 Billion Dollars plus I.8 Billion Dollars in CASH! Iran was in big trouble and he bailed them out. Gave them a free path to Nuclear Weapons, and SOON. Instead of saying thank you, Iran yelled Death to America. I terminated deal, which was not even ratified by Congress, and imposed strong sanctions. They are a much weakened nation today than at the beginning of my Presidency, when they were causing major problems throughout the Middle East. Now they are Bust!….” – Trump’s tweets.

    Remember the Skripal case, where Trump was persuaded to expel 60 Russian diplomats because Gina Haspel showed him pictures of some dead ducks and sick children alleged to have been inadvertently poisoned with the Russian’s Novichok nerve agent at the same time the Skripals were? Haspel made it up, of course; no ducks died nor did any children get sickened by any Russian poisons.

    So killing 150 people over a drone is too much. Imaginary dead ducks are too much. Won’t be tolerated.

    Yet this is the same man who immediately after deciding to call off the strike sends out a series of tweets in which he brags about the destruction he is bringing to Iran via sanctions. Basically, everything they buy or sell is sanctioned. How many Iranian people are dying because of these sanctions? Having torn up the JCPOA, Trump is now trying to strangle every last Iranian to death with his sanctions in order to convince them to overthrow their own government and make the Iranian leadership stick to the terms of the deal he himself tossed out.

    Not only that, but look what his sanctions against Venezuela are doing to that country. How many tens of thousands Venezuelans are dead because of his sanctions, imposed because they elected the “wrong guy”? (Okay, it’s really to get their oil and to correct the Venezuelan thinking that they ought to be allowed to run their own society by an economic idea aside from unfettered capitalism, but let’s go with the story being used.)

    How can a guy who is loathe to kill 150 people by bombing them, in the one instance, be the same guy who doesn’t mind killing tens of thousands of people by other means? Either there is something off about the whole story, or Trump is as good at compartmentalizing his thinking as the “good Nazis” who spent their days gassing “undesirables” and their evenings playing with their children.

    #48104

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    How can a guy who is loathe to kill 150 people by bombing them, in the one instance, be the same guy who doesn’t mind killing tens of thousands of people by other means? Either there is something off about the whole story, or Trump is as good at compartmentalizing his thinking as the “good Nazis” who spent their days gassing “undesirables” and their evenings playing with their children.

    Nice post by the way…
    It’s called Cognitive dissonance and all too common in today’s world.
    Actually it’s been a human failing for generations; but, rarely taken to task, over those very generations.
    A quick look back at history will reveal myriad examples…
    We do seem to be extra-tolerant of CD at this time; and possibly since 2003, if memory serves…

    #48117

    Dr. D
    Participant

    Yes Teri, the one thing that is true is that the official story doesn’t make any sense. That is to say, it isn’t true. So how about this:

    I’ve hypothesized that Trump isn’t talking to “Iran”, a word so large as to be completely meaningless. He’s talking to a very specific power block IN that country, let’s call them the “Deep State Ir” They’re the ones who got 3 planeloads of printed cash in exchange for no signed deal, unapproved by the Senate. And in exchange for WHAT? What was $50B worth, but you ALSO didn’t dare write it down on paper, in public? These are also the guys Obama and Kerry are going around the Logan Act to talk to every day, to broker treaties they have no authority to do, by saying, “hold out, stall out the U.S., we’ll get The Donald out of power any day now.” So just imagine that MIGHT be true.

    Obvious, just like our black CIA, the one that sucked up $20T in “missing accounting” in non-military budget holes like the Dept of Housing, that they aren’t just going to cave in, admit their wrongs, and go to Trump/Rouhani and say “we give up. Go ahead and hang us all for running Air America or whatever the Iranian-Turkish-Afghanistan drug triangle is.” Rouhani also knows they’re there, but clearly he can’t get them back under control or he happily would – all maniacs like more power. But he, Trump, Putin, Xi, all know the situation, and everybody right down to you. That is, everybody except 2nd Congressmen and intern Buzzfeed reporters already know this, but they won’t tell you. I mean, seriously? How credible do you need to be when the U.N. themselves say the drug trade is in the hundred-billions? That kind of money HAS to be running through sovereign states and mega-banks, flying on C-130s all approved by everyone, it ain’t going out on a donkey. But what’s Rouhani doing to do, say “I’m not in control, please bomb these bunkers in my own country and solve my problem for me?” No way.

    So as THEY all know this, and won’t tell you, the U.S. hires plausible maniacs to make the attack on Iran credible. –Particularly with a small nation on the Eastern Mediterranean we’ll double-cross later. They have to BELIEVE it. Buzzing the suspected rogue elements, they –finally– get them to jump and …first clue, take out a drone at 60,000 feet, WAY over common technologies, if you remember the arguments of BUK missiles with MH17.

    Now we know where these rogues are, which generals can’t follow orders, and Iran can transfer them while tapping their phone, their family’s phone, and anyone they ever talked to to get the moles out. THIS is who “can never have nuclear weapons”. Essentially, they’re not Iran, they’re Hydra. Just like Bush/Cheney’s little maniacs DJT only just knocked out back home, and are probably still hiding throughout the State Dept.

    So now what? and literally this happened: The Donald calls Pelosi-Schumer into his office and says, “Boy great you see you! You’re super-important people I totally trust, and I’m going to start a war. WWIII, you never knows! So at 10pm tonight, I’m going to bomb he crap out of Iranian sites X, Y, and Z. Just a heads up.”

    They leave the office dancing. Impeachment secured! No act of war! Base alienated! Economy crashes! And war! Beautiful bombs! We escape all those nasty questions about FISA, bribery, Chinese agents in your office for 20 years, etc.

    Trump then calls SigInit and says, “Okay boys, track the leaks!” and watch Chuck leak to the NYT, warning Iran, putting soldiers in danger, and those stories are pre-written and published, as we saw. Except: no bombing. They follow the leak-call-chain through the CIA, that small Mediterranean country, right over to Iran, where they track every jeep that moves and every general that fled the bomb targets. Moles identified. Oh and PS, treason secured. Leverage attained.

    Last second – because you want to identify as many moles as possible – Trump says, “Daddy? What’s a ‘War?’” And plays this stupid game about how he never knew bombing a foreign country kills people. AND THE MEDIA BELIEVES IT. THE PEOPLE EAT IT UP. I mean, I was born in the morning, but not YESTERDAY morning. He even says so on TV. “We think it was just one ill-advised general. Nothing to overreact about.” Ding!

    Too late, they realize they’ve been had, it’s a setup. Rouhani may even be in on it. The now-false stories run anyway, and the media, the Deep State (but I repeat myself) goes apoplectic. Coward! Weak! Yellow! Gol-durned thot we got him this time! You know, cuz we’re the smart people and he’s the idiot.

    Bonus, identify the moles in Fox news who are against Trump, against his agenda, against the American soldiers and people, against peace, and against negotiations. But we already knew they were.

    All for the low price of making them run around like monkeys, then calling up and saying “Whoops! Cooler heads prevailed.” Very entertaining. But they’re not going to report how THEY, the media, were all punked and made for the bloodthirsty, paid-off fools they are.

    Or make up your own story. The only certainty is that the story they ARE telling you is false. He didn’t just realize people die in war yesterday. He doesn’t care about 150 lives. Use your head.

    PS, same thing in Venezuela. Did you not notice it ended in NO wars, peace is negotiated in Norway, and the Neocons all look like idiots, revealing their dirty tricks and tricksters? That’s because after using them, he can, and has, called off the war after bringing them to the negotiating table. I’m not saying he’s a genius, but seriously, you’re being played. All people have plans and methods, even this one. They’re just won’t report on it because they’re either crooked, deranged, stupid, or complicit.

    Like all realities, it DOES make sense. Trust what HAPPENS, as everything men say is a lie. ESPECIALLY the NYT.

    #48118

    Dr. D
    Participant

    PS, so a BILLION dollars of Coke comes in on ONE ship, and nobody never knew nothing about it up til now? Srs? And a few days later a refinery next to that ship blows up? Total coincidence, not like the Warlord of that shipment would be mad or anything.

    Nexium has hundreds of victims, runs billionaires, actors, multiple day-care centers worldwide for decades, and nobody knew nothin’? No branded women ever washed up on a beach somewhere, spoke to the police, committed suicide? No?

    This is their problem when the corruption gets SO LARGE, involves so many people, that it HAS to involve everyone: the FBI, Wells-Fargo, the Mayor, Prime Minister Heath, the Catholics Brothers of Scotland who trafficked and brokered little boys to the rich and crooked only yesterday.

    Yet somehow at the larger level, knowing that ONE ship has $1B, and ships land with drugs and slaves EVERY DAY, nothing happens to them, in Justice, in the UN charities, we don’t make the next obvious leap that they all know each other and have their own structure? It all got to be this large when it’s exclusively random actors and lone wolves. They’re not really there, they won’t blackmail anyone or fight back with sabotage.

    Hey, okay. Believe what you want. But when they have $1B/mo in drug money alone, why on earth wouldn’t you buy a wing of a 3rd-nation military and pay for an underground bunker. And a nuke? Talk about leverage, extortion? “Nice planet you have here, shame if anything were to happen to it.” Okay, as this MUST be true, what’s your response? How do you dismantle them?

    #48119

    teri
    Participant

    I read your post a couple of times, Dr. D, and for the life of me I don’t understand what you are talking about, although it seems to have something to do with drug trade and secret cabals.

    I know the money Obama sent Iran was money the US illegally confiscated and held for decades, so that has nothing to do with anything. It was their money and we should never have stolen it in the first place.

    I also know the sanctions are real, the ones on Iran and the ones on Venezuela, N Korea, etc. (Who isn’t the US sanctioning at this point?) And those sanctions affect a country’s ability to buy and sell, import and export. They affect the lives of everyday citizens in the sanctioned countries. People die from the strictures thus placed on foods, medicines, and money. The use of sanctions are a form of warfare. Trump doesn’t give a shit about 150 dead people or a million dead people. He could not care less about world peace. He is just as bullying and sadistic as any US president ever was. He brought in Bolton and Pompeo – 2 of the nuttiest, scorched-earth sadists on the planet – and he brought them in on purpose, of his own volition.

    Why the hell try to ruin Venezuela? Is that some secret and oh-so-very clever maneuver against international drug trafficking, too? No, there is no US military war in Venezuela right now. Maduro has had to go around the US to try and find recourse and a peaceful solution (which hasn’t actually happened yet, BTW) for a problem that was not a problem until Trump declared that the elected president in a foreign nation was not the elected president and that the US would only recognize some CIA-trained dude that nobody in Venezuela even seems to know. In the meantime, Venezuelans are still suffering from our extraordinarily harsh sanctions. Is this something that is being done to force them to “negotiate”? Negotiate what, exactly? We weren’t in negotiations with Venezuela over anything. Venezuela wasn’t hurting anyone. They weren’t doing anything but minding their own business and suddenly, boom, Trump jumps in their shit. Having caused a problem for them, you think the fact that he hasn’t actually bombed them yet means he is succeeding at ….well, something. And the Neocons, who “all look like idiots, revealing their dirty tricks and tricksters”, as you say, are in this particular case the neocons that Trump himself brought into the room.

    And in the meantime, the sanctions remain and people are still dying in Venezuela. I am at a loss to comprehend how you can praise Trump for “bringing them to the negotiating table”, when what Maduro is having to negotiate with some countries, notably none of which are named “Venezuela”, is his right to stay in his office, to which the Venezuelans elected him.

    Somehow, you are suggesting Trump is for peace and at the same time you yourself point out he doesn’t mind killing people. Sounds kinda like “bombing for Jesus”. And he is a great negotiator, although everything he is negotiating wasn’t a problem until he made it one. I don’t get it. So we are (as usual) wrecking parts of the world and causing death and mayhem, but this time, by golly, it has something to do with uncovering who is against Trump’s peace agenda and outing international drug lords. Sounds like QAnon theory to me.

    But then I am a simple person.

    #48120

    anticlimactic
    Participant

    It seems lucky for us that the US did not attack Iran.

    I am sure the first consequence would be Iran closing the straits of Homuz, hopefully just by turning round empty ships arriving. Estimates suggest that the price of oil could go up to possibly 1000 dollars a barrel [Goldman Sachs].

    This in turn would blow up the derivatives market, currently estimated at about 1000 trillion dollars.

    In turn this would have destroyed the global banking system.

    This would have shattered the global economy.

    All this avoided on a whim by Trump!

    If Iran can not get round sanctions then it may close the strait anyway – they have little to lose.

    Although Trump talked about not killing 150 people the whole point of the sanctions is that hundreds of thousands of Iranians will die and put pressure on the regime.

    It is the same with Venezuela, where people are already dying because they do not have access to the medicine they need. Perhaps their names and pictures should be posted on Trumps twitter feed so he will know who he IS killing.

    #48121

    PlanetaryCitizen
    Participant

    First of all, it was not the U.S. that installed the Shah in Iran. It was the British and the Russians who installed him because his father (exiled to S. Africa) would not cut ties and expel Germans from the country. At the time it was all about Lend Lease and the Trans Iranian railway to keep the Russian military supplied in WW2. The U.S. didn’t get involved until after it joined the war.

    The US house just passed a bill this week to do away with the AUMF now that the Democrats have power. AUMF bills have been brought up repeatedly but always crushed because the Repubs wouldn’t allow it. McConnell and Inhofe will kill any resolution on this one in the Senate, no doubt. Let’s just be clear on who is doing what here shall we? It may be possible that some Repubs will join the Dems in the Senate and support the bill, as it was with the one to end support of S.A in it’s war in Yemen. We’ll see, but I doubt it.

    What ever the reason is that Trump stopped the attack, we’ll never know with even a modicum of certainty what it is because Trump is incapable of telling the truth. His reality is entirely the one he creates about himself in his own head. AKA narcissistic personality disorder and he’s got it in spades.

    #48123

    restless94111
    Participant

    It won’t be 20 years. It will be 2 months.

    The Iranians have said two things that must be paid attention to:
    1. If we can’t export our oil, no one in the region will be able to export their oil.
    2. If even one shot is fired at Iran, we will completely fuck shit up with the US and their allies.

    They are serious, deadly serious.

    Trump has to lift the sanctions or Iran will not talk. If he lifts sanctions his neo-cons and the MSM will go insane.

    Trump can’t have US forces stay still. If they move forward, Iran will move to destroy as much as they can of the allies and the US assets.
    If he withdraws forces? Again, his neo-cons and the MSM will go nutso.

    He promosed to get us out of these wars. He was elected by people because of that. It’s time to honor his promise, even if it costs him his life.

    I don’t envy him. He’s between a rock and a hard place.

    In any event, any move by the US towards war will insure the destruction of his Presidency and the US military precedence completely within a few months.

    Leave the ME to those who live in the ME. This is the last chance that the US has to heed the warnings. Trump is the last hope that this comes out half way ok.

    Else, the fire next time.

    #48126

    teri,

    great comment, agree with much of it, please come again, we need intelligent speech around here, never enough\

    PC, it was 1954, and so it was the US. Big Oil, but US. By then, the UK had lost its global power.

    Restless, yes, that’s in a “grand” way what I mean. The US cannot control the Middle East and by now nobody can.

    #48127

    PlanetaryCitizen
    Participant

    The Shah was installed in 1941 by the British and the Russians as I said. Moseddeq was elected to the Iranian parliament in 1944 and was able to get passage of legislation to nationalize the oil industry and the Shah was effectively forced to appoint him as Premier (prime minister) in 1951. The Shah fled the country for a few days in an attempted coup by Mossedeq in 1953. Mossedeq’s opponents, with the help of the British and the US, were able to restore the Shah back to power pretty much immediately. Mossedeq was convicted of treason and imprisoned for 3 years and then kept under house arrest until his death.

    The Shah was the US and Britain’s man in Iran as I believe history attests to as well as a brutal dictator, but the US did not install him beyond their efforts as a participant in defeating an attempted coup by Mossedeq.

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