Dec 282020
 
 December 28, 2020  Posted by at 10:24 am Finance Tagged with: , , , , , , , , ,


Juan Gris Grapes 1913

 

Trump Averts Shutdown, Signs $2.3 Trillion Spending And COVID Relief Bill (JTN)
Trump Signs Covid-19 Bill: Announces Congress Review of Section 230 (SAC)
Georgia Runoff Results May Not Be Known ‘for Weeks’ (RS)
Special Counsel Is Guaranteed If Biden Picks Yates, Cuomo or Jones as AG
Most Europeans, Including Hospital Staff, Refuse To Take Vaccine (ZH)
Vaccines To Cause COVID Rates To Drop In Nursing Homes Soon – Gottlieb (JTN)
How Cancel Culture Keeps COVID19 Lockdown Doubters Silent (NYP)
Chinese Banks To Feel Fundraising Pain As Investors Fear Bad Loans (R.)
China Pushes Ant Group Overhaul In Latest Crackdown On Ma (R.)
Brexit: Britons Warned On Travel Insurance, Roaming Charges And Exports (Sky)

 

 

The attempts to shut down the discussion about vaccines will backfire spectacularly. We need to have that discussion, badly. “Believe in the science” has been turned into “Believe in the vaccine”. But those are not the same thing.

 

 

You think you are following the science when, in fact, you are following the media’s and politicos’ presentation of the science. Follow the science is a rallying cry by all but the scientists.
– Dave Collum

 

 

Dr. Kary Mullis, inventor of the PCR test, on the fraud who is called Dr. Fauci

 

 

What are the odds of $2,000 by now?

Trump Averts Shutdown, Signs $2.3 Trillion Spending And COVID Relief Bill (JTN)

President Trump on Sunday night signed a $2.3 trillion federal spending and COVID relief bill, averting a government shutdown and ensuring millions of Americans continue to get unemployment benefits. Despite his misgivings about wasteful spending and low stimulus payments in the bill, Trump said he signed the legislation because “I have an obligation to protect the people of our country“ from further economic devastation. He said, however, “more money is coming” as Congress votes this week on larger checks. The president on Sunday also invoked the 1974 Impoundment Control Act to demand “rescissions” be made to the spending measures. Under the Act, a president can seek congressional approval to rescind funds by sending a special message to Congress identifying the amount he proposes to cut, the reasons for it, and the economic impact.


“I will sign the Omnibus and Covid package with a strong message that makes clear to Congress that wasteful items need to be removed. I will send back to Congress a redlined version, item by item, accompanied by the formal rescission request to Congress insisting that those funds be removed from the bill,” Trump said. The signing came after Trump tweeted, “Good news on Covid Relief Bill. Information to follow!” The signing brought hope to millions of Americans who lost jobless benefits over the weekend as a federal shutdown loomed. The standoff occurred after Trump refused before Christmas to sign the $2.3 trillion spending and COVID relief bill, demanding more money for everyday Americans. Congress failed to address the president’s demands to increase the $600 stimulus checks to $2,000 per person.

Read more …

What substance does the review have?

Trump Signs Covid-19 Bill: Announces Congress Review of Section 230 (SAC)

President Trump signed on Sunday the Covid-19 stimulus package, saying that the bill will “restore unemployment benefits, stop evictions, provide rental assistance, add money for PPP, return our airline workers back to work, add substantially more money for vaccine distribution, and much more.” Trump also announced that the House of Representatives will vote on Monday to increase “payments to individuals from $600 to $2,000 and that a family of four would receive $5,200.” Another unexpected announcement was that Congress has promised to review Section 230, “which so unfairly benefits Big Tech at the expense of the American people.” Trump said that he expect them to either terminate it or substantially reform it.

Read more …

“What we have seen traditionally in Georgia that Republicans are much more reliable runoff voters than Democrats are. The republican have a pretty long string of unbroken wins in statewide runoffs..”

Georgia Runoff Results May Not Be Known ‘for Weeks’ (RS)

One of the reasons that folks on the right have been so upset over the Nov. 3 election is not just that many believe it was stolen from President Donald Trump, but also the concern that if you don’t fully answer/resolve the questions that have been raised about the election, then you can’t be assured that it won’t happen again. A recent USA Today poll found that fully 78% of Republicans don’t believe that Joe Biden was legitimately elected. While the media wants to blame that on President Donald Trump, as indeed they blame everything, it has far more to do with the media failure to actually address the questions raised, dismissing sworn affidavits and the failure to comply with state laws. That’s a big issue when you fail to address the concerns of that many people.

Now, as we approach the Georgia run-offs, Fox is reporting that we may not know the winners in the run-offs for “weeks.” From the NY Post: “Election officials in Georgia are gearing up for the possibility that next month’s Senate runoff elections may spend weeks in litigation before a final winner is determined. The state has become closely divided in recent years and both Democrats and Republicans expect the results to be razor-thin.” Until just enough ballots come in to declare Democrats the winners? Check this hot take: “Given what happened after the presidential election, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see attempts to challenge the results, especially if Democrats win,” Emory University political scientist Alan Abramowitz told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

“We’re already seeing questions about signature verification, challenges of new voter registration. This could all just be a glimpse of the future.” Yes, how dare people be concerned about signature verification?! Or be concerned about people falsely registering to vote in the state to influence the election? Shouldn’t everyone be concerned about those questions? From Fox5 Atlanta: “This is no run-of-the-mill runoff. The fate of the nation’s balance of power Is on the table here,” political strategist Brian Robinson said. [….] “What we have seen traditionally in Georgia that Republicans are much more reliable runoff voters than Democrats are. The republican have a pretty long string of unbroken wins in statewide runoffs,” he said. “They want to make sure Democrats don’t control every level of power in Washington. That’s a very powerful motivator. Democrats are fat and happy because they got what they want in Washington.”

Read more …

“If I wasn’t governor of New York, I would have decked Trump. Period.”

Special Counsel Is Guaranteed If Biden Picks Yates, Cuomo or Jones as AG

In recent days, President-elect Joe Biden has stated that his attorney general will not be “the president’s lawyer,” adding that he promises his “justice department will be totally on its own making its judgments about how to proceed.” And who could disagree? The attorney general is the top cop in the land, and no person, not even the president, as Richard Nixon once claimed in a famous interview with British journalist David Frost, is above the law. But Biden’s AG shortlist says quite the opposite of his declaration of AG independence. Take Sally Yates, the former federal prosecutor who has become a media darling in recent years for the same reason almost everyone else has: Her resistance efforts against President Trump while using the kind of soaring rhetoric one would expect in your average Aaron Sorkin production.

“Put simply, [Trump] treats our country like it’s his family business. This time, bankrupting our nation’s moral authority at home and abroad,” Yates said during her endorsement speech of Joe Biden at the Democratic National Convention. “But our country doesn’t belong to him. It belongs to all of us. Joe Biden embraces that. He has spent his entire life putting our country first.” “He has never backed down from a challenge or a bully,” she continued. “He summons the best in us, and lives by the values that define us as Americans, service, integrity, courage, compassion.” Yup. Yates is just the person to lead the Justice Department given that perspective and rhetoric. And we can be totally sure that if Biden asked her not to pursue any investigation of his son Hunter Biden any further than the current FBI investigation that has been ongoing for more than a year, she’ll completely resist doing so in the name of service and integrity, right?

Rhetorical question. How about Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-N.Y.)? The 2020 Emmy winner is reportedly on Biden’s shortlist as well. “If I wasn’t governor of New York, I would have decked Trump. Period,” Cuomo told Howard Stern last month in response to a question regarding Trump calling his brother Chris “Fredo,” a reference to the hapless Godfather character. “I mean he was attacking me, he was attacking my family, he was anti-Italian.” This is the same Cuomo who said this of Trump even considering returning to his home state of New York. “He can’t have enough bodyguards to walk through New York City,” Cuomo told reporters in September in a not-so-veiled threat to a sitting president “Forget bodyguards. He better have an army if he thinks he’s going to walk down the streets in New York.”

Meanwhile, Cuomo has resisted at every turn calls for an independent investigation into his order to send COVID-positive patients back into nursing homes, resulting in the deaths of thousands. Fortunately for those looking for the truth, the Justice Department has expanded an investigation into the matter, which Cuomo calls “a political charade.” As for the whole-work-independent-of-Biden thing, Cuomo, who never met a camera he didn’t like, also spoke at the DNC in August in endorsing Biden. Yup. This is just the guy to serve as the top cop in the land.

Read more …

[In Bulgaria] “..only 15% of the population will actually volunteer for a vaccine in the near future..”

Most Europeans, Including Hospital Staff, Refuse To Take Vaccine (ZH)

All is not going according to plan in the biggest global rollout of what is arguably the most important vaccine in a century, and it is not just growing US mistrust in the covid injection effort that was rolled out in record time: an unexpected spike in allergic reactions to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (and now, Moderna too) may prove catastrophic to widespread acceptance unless scientists can figure out what is causing it after the FDA’s rushed approval, and is also why as we reported yesterday, scientists are scrambling to identify the potential culprit causing the allergic reactions. Making matters worse, Europe rolled out a huge COVID-19 vaccination drive on Sunday to try to rein in the coronavirus pandemic but even more Europeans than American are sceptical about the speed at which the vaccines have been tested and approved and reluctant to have the shot.

While the European Union has secured contracts drugmakers including Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca, for a total of more than two billion doses and has set a goal for all adults to be inoculated next year, this is looking increasingly like a pipe dream: according to recent surveys, the local population has expressed “high levels of hesitancy” towards inoculation in countries from France to Poland, with many used to vaccines taking decades to develop, not just months. “I don’t think there’s a vaccine in history that has been tested so quickly,” Ireneusz Sikorski, 41, said as he stepped out of a church in central Warsaw with his two children. “I am not saying vaccination shouldn’t be taking place. But I am not going to test an unverified vaccine on my children, or on myself.”

Smart: why take the risk of getting vaccinated when others will do it, resulting in the same outcome. Surveys in Poland, where distrust in public institutions runs deep, show that fewer than 40% of people planning to get vaccinated. Worse, according to Reuters on Sunday, only half the medical staff in a Warsaw hospital where the country’s first shot was administered had signed up. And if the doctors don’t trust the vaccine, one can be certain that the broader population will refuse to take it. The situation is similar in Spain, one of Europe’s hardest-hit countries, where 28-year-old singer and music composer German summarizes the skepticism of a broad range of the population, and plans to wait for now. “No one close to me has had it (COVID-19). I’m obviously not saying it doesn’t exist because lots of people have died of it, but for now I wouldn’t have it (the vaccine).”

A Christian Orthodox bishop in Bulgaria, where 45% of people have said they would not get a shot and 40% plan to wait to see if any negative side effects appear – meaning only 15% of the population will actually volunteer for a vaccine in the near future – is in the tiny minority when it comes to taking the vaccine.

Read more …

“..maybe as early as this week..”? But doesn’t it take two jobs, a month apart? How can this be true?

Vaccines To Cause COVID Rates To Drop In Nursing Homes Soon – Gottlieb (JTN)

Nursing homes likely should begin to see COVID-19 infection rates drop in coming days, the former Former Food and Drug Administration chief said Sunday. “We will begin to see some indication that the vaccines are probably having an effect maybe as early as this week, because we know that immunity does begin to kick in about a week after vaccination,” Scott Gottlieb said while appearing on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” Vaccines normally offer immunity about a week after being administered, Gottlieb said. According to that standard, he said, death rates in American nursing homes should soon go down. “That will start to have an impact on the mortality trends with COVID, but it’s coming late in the season,” he said. “Vaccinations will take about three weeks to get through all of the nursing homes,”Gottlieb said.

Read more …

We badly need the discussion.

How Cancel Culture Keeps COVID19 Lockdown Doubters Silent (NYP)

“Thank you so much for speaking out to open schools. I can’t do it myself, for obvious reasons.” “I completely agree with you about opening schools in September, but I’m afraid I’ll be targeted at my job.” These were just a few of the supportive reader comments I received over the summer and fall, as I wrote column after column urging that schools be reopened. They opened a revealing window onto the mechanics of social control in the age of COVID-19. My correspondents’ fear was obvious: Say the wrong thing online, and have your life destroyed. Cancel culture has permeated everything, including debates over how to deal with the pandemic. Schools had been open in other countries for months, and they were all reporting lower positivity rates than their surrounding communities.


My arguments were measured and evidence-based: The data were making the case for reopening schools all by themselves. Yet most of the rest of the media seemed determined to tell the story from only one perspective: that of lockdown hard-liners, not least teacher-union bosses. This paper aside, very few outlets pushed for school openings. On the left, the conversation is heavily policed, with clear red lines drawn around “unacceptable” opinion. Reopening schools was treated as “irresponsible,” even though the numbers said otherwise. It wasn’t until Oct. 9 when things began to shift. That’s when a piece headlined “Schools Aren’t Super-Spreaders” appeared in The Atlantic. The piece didn’t exactly break new ground. What mattered is that it appeared in a liberal publication. That made it OK to believe and say what even many liberal parents knew but didn’t dare voice.

Read more …

Chinese banks are a murky lot. Question is does Xi want to allow them to fail?

Chinese Banks To Feel Fundraising Pain As Investors Fear Bad Loans (R.)

Chinese banks are expected to face headwinds raising funds next year as profit-conscious investors cling to the sidelines, expecting a wave of bad loans to hammer the sector and erode already slimming margins. The sector is ending its worst annual performance in years after putting aside record provisions due to COVID-19 while Beijing urged banks to sacrifice profits to help the economy. Next year as lenders end pandemic-related loan forbearance – which let borrowers suspend repayments or pay less in interest – banks must bolster their capital against loans previously not classified as nonperforming. Big and medium-sized lenders also need to improve their capital adequacy as demanded by global and domestic watchdogs.


China’s banks raised 1.2 trillion yuan ($18 billion) in the first 11 months of the year, off the pace of 1.5 trillion yuan for all of 2019, data from Fitch Ratings shows. The 26 listed banks may need to replenish at least 1.25 trillion yuan of capital in 2021, Shenzhen-based brokerage Guosheng Securities estimates. “The pressure of capital-raising for the whole banking industry is still pretty big,” said Vivian Xue, Fitch’s director of Asia-Pacific financial institutions. “China’s largest banks will need to raise substantial capital or loss-absorbing debt over the next few years.” The four largest – Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, China Construction Bank, Agricultural Bank of China and Bank of China – face a shortfall in this loss-absorbing debt of 4.7 trillion yuan by the end of 2024 to meet requirements set by the Basel-based Financial Stability Board, according to Fitch.

Read more …

China’s biggest loanshark?

China Pushes Ant Group Overhaul In Latest Crackdown On Ma (R.)

China’s central bank disclosed on Sunday it had asked the country’s payments giant Ant Group Co Ltd to shake up its lending and other consumer finance operations, the latest blow to its billionaire founder and controlling shareholder Jack Ma. The announcement came more than a month after Chinese regulators abruptly suspended Ant’s blockbuster $37 billion initial public offering in Shanghai and Hong Kong, and only days after the country’s antitrust authorities said they had launched a probe into Ma’s e-commerce conglomerate Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. Chinese regulators and Communist Party officials have set about reining in Ma’s sprawling financial empire after he publicly criticized the country’s regulatory system in October for stifling innovation.


Regulators have urged Ant to rectify financial regulatory violations, including in its credit, insurance and wealth management businesses, and overhaul its credit rating business to protect personal information, People’s Bank of China (PBOC) Vice Governor Pan Gongsheng said on Sunday. Pan’s comments stopped short of calling for a breakup of Ant, yet pointed to a significant operational restructuring. Ant should set up a separate holding company to ensure capital adequacy and regulatory compliance, Pan said. Ant should also be fully licensed to operate its personal credit business, and be more transparent about its third-party payment transactions and not engage in unfair competition, Pan added. Ant said in a statement it would establish a “rectification” working group and fully implement regulatory requirements.

Read more …

It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.

Brexit: Britons Warned On Travel Insurance, Roaming Charges And Exports (Sky)

Britons travelling to the European Union have been warned they face disruption and potential charges after the Brexit transition period ends on Thursday. Travellers from the UK have previously been able to rely on free healthcare with their European Health Insurance Card, and to escape roaming charges thanks to a ban on the fees throughout the bloc. But the trade deal brokered between the European Union and the UK does not allow for Britons to keep either of these advantages. The deal only says both sides must encourage mobile providers to have “transparent and reasonable rates”, while government guidance tells British travellers to check with their mobile provider to see what charges they will face.

Any British visitor to the EU will also have to make sure their passport has enough validity when they begin their journey. Cabinet minister Michael Gove acknowledged there will be “some disruption” as the nation adjusts, so he said “it is vital” to be as ready as possible. Mr Gove also warned businesses that the time left to make final preparations before the new deal comes into force “is very short”. Businesses must understand the new rules on importing and exporting goods between Great Britain and the EU, as well as rules when trading with Northern Ireland. EU officials are set to meet on Monday to discuss the Brexit trade deal agreed with the UK on Christmas Eve. If the Brexit agreement, covering £660bn of trade, can be provisionally approved by EU ambassadors, it will then move on to formal ratification by the European Parliament.

It will almost certainly be passed by the UK parliament this week, with Labour backing what it describes as a “thin” treaty, as the alternative would be a chaotic no-deal situation on 1 January. And Boris Johnson has said that, although he accepts that “the devil is in the detail” of the deal, he believes that it will stand up to inspection from sceptics such as the European Research Group of Brexiteers.

Read more …

 

 

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Home Forums Debt Rattle December 28 2020

This topic contains 18 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  upstateNYer 3 weeks, 2 days ago.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #67357

    Juan Gris Grapes 1913   • Trump Averts Shutdown, Signs $2.3 Trillion Spending And COVID Relief Bill (JTN) • Trump Signs Covid-19 Bill: Announces
    [See the full post at: Debt Rattle December 28 2020]

    #67359

    Mr. House
    Participant

    This guy is spot on, thoughts?

    #67360

    Mr. House
    Participant

    another good one

    #67361

    Mr. House
    Participant
    #67362

    zerosum
    Participant

    What you say online could be a career killer

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/china-slaps-citizen-journalist-jail-over-virus-reporting-wuhan

    “Picking Quarrels & Provoking Trouble” – China Slams Journalist With 4 Years In Jail Over COVID Reporting

    Notably, the Chinese continue to scrub any discussion of its role in social media. It is a chilling example of the censorship that is now being embraced by many in the United States.
    At the same time, Democrats have embraced censorship and speech controls. We have have been discussing how writers, editors, commentators, and academics have embraced rising calls for censorship and speech controls, including President-elect Joe Biden and his key advisers. The erosion of free speech has been radically accelerated by the Big Tech and social media companies. The level of censorship and viewpoint regulation has raised questions of a new type of state media where companies advance an ideological agenda with political allies.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/2/trial-of-julian-assange

    After hearing four weeks of evidence in the extradition trial of Julian Assange, District Judge Vanessa Baraitser announced on Thursday she will pronounce judgement on January 4.
    Paul Rogers, professor at Bradford University told the court that WikiLeaks’ revelations were “significant” in showing how the US coalition’s wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were “going wrong” despite public claims of their success.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/number-of-pardons-by-president-3367600
    Number of Pardons by Presidents
    These data cover only pardons, not commutations and remissions, which are separate actions.

    Franklin D. Roosevelt: 2,819 pardons
    Harry S. Truman: 1,913 pardons
    Dwight D. Eisenhower: 1,110 pardons
    Woodrow Wilson: 1,087 pardons
    Lyndon Johnson: 960 pardons
    Richard Nixon: 863 pardons
    Calvin Coolidge: 773 pardons
    Herbert Hoover: 672 pardons
    Theodore Roosevelt: 668 pardons
    Jimmy Carter: 534 pardons
    John F. Kennedy: 472 pardons
    Bill Clinton: 396 pardons
    Ronald Reagan: 393 pardons
    William H. Taft: 383 pardons
    Gerald Ford: 382 pardons
    Warren Harding: 386 pardons
    William McKinley: 291 pardons
    Barack Obama: 212 pardons
    George W. Bush: 189 pardons
    George H.W. Bush: 74 pardons
    Donald J. Trump: 10 pardons*
    * Trump is serving his first term in office.
    Pardon count last updated on July 11, 2019.
    The actions, in Trump’s final weeks at the White House, bring to nearly 50 the number of people whom the president has granted clemency in the last week. A look at the 29 people granted pardons or clemency on Wednesday. 2020-12-24

    #67363

    zerosum
    Participant

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/uk-journalist-hounded-after-pointing-out-only-old-and-sick-die-covid
    UK Journalist Hounded After Pointing Out That Only Old And Sick Die From COVID

    BY TYLER DURDEN
    MONDAY, DEC 28, 2020 – 9:25
    Authored by Steve Watson via Summit News,

    A British journalist has been targeted by an angry online mob after pointing out that only a relatively small amount of healthy people have died from COVID, and suggesting that the complete destruction of our way of life is not an adequate response.

    #67364

    Mr. House
    Participant

    For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death.

    “UK Journalist Hounded After Pointing Out That Only Old And Sick Die From COVID”

    Well yeah, easier to game the statistics, duh. What should frighten everyone but somehow still doesn’t, is that even though what she says is true, people feel the need to attack her like she just said jesus wasn’t real……….

    #67365

    Mr. House
    Participant
    #67367

    Noirette
    Participant

    i tried to edit this post but it didn’t show ..apologies if double.
    ==============
    Raul posted in a previous thread: The way the Pfizer “vaccine” is “rolled out” at least makes one thing blatantly obvious: “believe in science” is nothing but a slogan. It has now been replaced by “believe in the vaccine”. And those two things are not the same at all. (…)

    The similar directive was “Follow the science”. I complained about it before, as in “flatten the curve”, “reduce R0 to below 1”, “masks are protective for all” and more .. that kind of talk is not science but represents political decisions that supposedly rest on ‘science’ as claimed by pols and the MSM.

    “Follow the science”, “believe in…”, first, sound very much like, you dull dopes and deplorables, take the advice of your betters who are not pig-ignorant like you, how dare you! *question* Science…

    Second, clearly the seat of authority is shifted from instituted Governance (representative republic, local Governor, head of Health Emergency, etc.) to outside actors – Scientists. Apparently the first can’t take responsibility because they shore up their moves by referring to ‘expert’ others (idiot Neil Ferguson comes to mind, yikes.)

    However, I am afraid that the situation is worse than ‘weak, insecure, hesitating’ Govmts / Health Authorities (USA, EU) and represents some type of melding between Big Pharma (amongst the most powerful Corp-congomerate if perhaps not the most lucrative, that is the MIC) and Govmt.

    Of course the relationship between Science and Politics has always been complicated, with the two imbricated and / or dancing around each other.

    ——————————————————-

    Vitamin D and COVID 19: The Evidence for Prevention and Treatment of Coronavirus (SARS CoV 2.) Roger Seheult, MD. One hour, perhaps good for passing on. (?)

    https://bit.ly/34MO8K8

    #67368

    Mr. House
    Participant

    Where is BLM? Are they still passionately professing their ideals and the news just stopped covering it?

    #67370

    phoenixvoice
    Participant

    @ Mr House
    First Twitter video — spot on, and I am heartened to live in a world with this man in it. We need this kind of energy to push back against what is going on. And he is right, this is bigger than Democrats and Republicans.

    2nd Twitter video — I disagree with this woman and the argument that she makes. Indoor public mask wearing *does not* directly compare with compulsory kidney harvesting. This is where emotion starts carrying people away. Indoor public mask wearing during a pandemic (at least for me) falls under the category of “civil society” — that set of general rules (lateral rules, not top down rules) that people generally follow to show a minimum of respect to others. The biggest detriment to wearing masks that I find is that it is much more difficult to read facial expressions. The biggest advantage to wearing them in cold weather is that they work like a scarf but stay in place much more securely.

    It would be helpful for this woman to realize that what she (likely) actually fears is an erosion of her personal liberties. This erosion has been going on for a long time and is accelerating through this pandemic. Her fear of personal liberty erosion is justified — but using indoor public mask wearing during a pandemic is a very poor way to articulate her angst. A lot of people see mask wearing during a pandemic like I do, and wore masks when it was a request, and not a mandate. Mask wearing indoors seems like common sense, like a logical concession for civil society. When we listen to her, she sounds a little crazy. The guy in the first video communicated his concerns much more effectively — clearly stated that he just wants to be able to live his life and continue his livelihood. This desire resonates very broadly.

    #67371

    phoenixvoice
    Participant

    (And the biggest advantage to masks over all is that they foil facial recognition software!)

    #67373

    phoenixvoice
    Participant

    @ Mr house

    WaPo article: Yikes! What a terrible bit of propaganda

    I was raised Mormon, left that faith, but find that I retain some of what I was taught as a child. There is a quote from the founder of the Mormon faith that is very applicable to this situation: “I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.“. (It is a very “American” grown faith, in some ways.)

    It isn’t the government’s job to tell us all what do. It *is* the government’s job to collate relevant information, disseminate the information, make recommendations, etc. Fund research? Yes. Tell us the results of the research? Yes. The media tell us the results as well, which helps promote honesty in government officials. Mask mandates? In some situations, yes. Remove your liberty for violating a mask mandate? No. And if the government can’t do eminent domain without due compensation to the current property owners the government also shouldn’t be able to shut down someone’s business during a pandemic without due compensation. (There are many forms this compensation could take, however, any such compensation should do its best to ensure that when the business is allowed to operate normally again that it is in an essentially equal or better position than when it was shut down/restricted.).

    It is the public’s job to regulate itself. Government guidance exists for those who want the easy way out — they are too busy to look at the information and use it to inform their daily activities and prefer to simply follow a preset code of rules. This is not a bad thing, it is practical. There is a simplicity in top down models — ask any parent. But the best models are unique to those involved and take time to develop, incorporating the minutiae of the personalities, strengths, weaknesses, and vulnerabilities of the people involved.

    In an indoor public space I don’t have the time or care to have a conversation with all present about their medical vulnerabilities and those of the individuals with whom the interact with regularly. Much more practical to just wear a mask.

    With those I live with, whether or not I can have those conversations speaks to the quality of the relationships and our communication skills. It is not always easy. I should know. It is how I caught Covid. (!)

    #67379

    WES
    Participant

    Mr. House:

    Where is BLM?

    BLM isn’t needed at the moment by it’s Uniparty leaders. The election is over.

    The Uniparty leaders are all too busy dividing up what is left of the taxpayer’s wealth, BLM didn’t destroy, amoung themselves!

    #67380

    WES
    Participant

    On Brexit:

    They have had 4 years to get prepared and they are still not ready!

    #67381

    WES
    Participant

    Phoenixvoice:

    I spent some time working in Pocatello, Idaho.

    Would you have been raised there?

    #67382

    sumac.carol
    Participant

    Mormon faith that is very applicable to this situation: “I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.“. (It is a very “American” grown faith, in some ways.)

    Here’s a contrasting approach from Martin Luther in 1524:. ” Christians are rare in this world; therefore the world needs a strict, hard, temporal government that will compel and constrain the wicked not to rob and to return what they borrow, even though a Christian ought not to demand it…”. He goes on to say that if only Gospel leads us, without laws and force, all would go to hell in a handbasket, basically. So many interesting perspectives on the role of government in our lives. Meanwhile, it looks like dollars are the governing force in our world right now.

    #67384

    Jernau Gurgeh
    Participant

    Regarding the “It’s now or never…” video.

    How would you summarize the baby boomer mentality? Answer: F*ck you, I got mine!

    The baby boomers say, “You didn’t get a pension? Lol, I got mine.” and now they want us to revolt.

    #67385

    upstateNYer
    Participant

    @Jernau: we don’t do very many ad hominen attacks here. You perhaps took the wrong turn a couple miles back?

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