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If we look at the great Empires of the past before oil they controlled the most basic of energies…..FOOD.
They know they are going to loose thier energy control and are trying to gain control of the deeper and most imporant of all energies. The natural way the suns energy empowers all life on earth.
https://permaculturenews.org/2012/09/05/vandana-shiva-invites-us-to-act-for-seed-freedom/
Occupy the Seed
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Well it is believed there were millions of natives in Canada and the USA before the invasion that seem to be a large amount of people. Also the native peoples tended to not fight to the death until after the whites came.
Now you asked the question.
“So I want to see an example of a large population operating successfully as a society under an anarchist model to be convinced it was the right way for America to go.”
I would like to ask where do we seen large populations that have successfully maintained themselves without collapsing in history?
Civilization does not have a good track record according to Jared Diamond in his book Collapse How sociecties choose to fail or succeed.
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I said North America dear friend,
The majority of them were very much as Adam said, they lived in a hugely different way. They had gift cultures and tribe/clans based on family/friend ties. They respected the earth and all life way more than the empires of today. They lived in the most harsh of areas going wayyy up north without gov’t, industry and oil. That is a very powerful yet simple system of living if you ask me.
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I’d like to add that the nations you mentioned that were more like empire collapsed under themselves, yet these other systems of living were hunted down and destroyed by the empire builders, and would still be here if they had not been so destroyed.
I just need to jump in here one little bit.
“If you can’t find a historical case wherein anarchist theories have worked out in practice and produced a reasonable society”,
How about the native societies that lived in north america for 1000s of years before the white people came here?
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Dear Adam,
I have been reading and listening and I’ve even found the books you mentioned on line for reading which I will do out of interest and wanting a balanced understanding about how other people can see things. The problem mankind is heading into is bigger than anything even seen in history…. ever. We need to be willing to think wayyyyy outside the box I feel.
Now as for the debt thing we got out of debt 100% about 9 years ago and because of that we have been able to invest in our small farm, greenhouses, tools etc.
I think the problem of debt will change as we travel in the stream of time. right now it might be ‘safe’ to have it but it can be a burden mentally and slow us down in some ways ‘not having the money to get such and such’. There might be a very short period of time as the system really start failing while the gov’t and policing system still is functioning that could be a real threat
However I do agree with you that the time is coming when that danger will pass when the money system really fails then there will be a global debt jubilee as it were.
Thus the part most here worry about is that little in between time perhaps when the pressure might be the highest and people with debt could really suffer, so to choose to get out of debt still can seem wise to many people.
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Well I’m new here but you have made an interesting point.
Oddly the core point you made reminds me of something said in the book of Revelations, go figure?
Rev 9:6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.
The bible is also a history book so perhaps this is a pattern of empires behaviors as they fall?
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I am with you Ashvin on the direction you are going with this topic. We are living machines with a mind that is motionless within the living machine. The mind has much power to dream, but it’s our bodies that do the real work. It’s time to wake up and DO. (The bible speaks of this)
NOW is the time to MOVE, to CHANGE how we live. I’m talking really change, let others call us excentric.
Try living in a tent in your own back yard, start learning how to live without modern things…learn again how to receive what you need directly from the earth. Find out how little you really need to meet your basic needs.
I feel we are at the moment when it’s time to ‘get out of Babylon’.
I’m a Christian but I’m not part of religion, I feel the heart of faith is to DO. If our beliefs allow us to be inactive I don’t think they are truths. Truths always have empowered people to great action.
To find real positive motivation is to find the path to truth….
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Great question,
In my thinking on this topic I have considered that the local native peoples of my area used to have two main camps one for summer and one for winter. So perhaps having a second way to living is a good back up? Having a more solid home and a back up mobile/tent/dome dwelling for when we need to move perhaps for a while?
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That is a good question what is the difference between a society or group of people and civilization?
One other way people organized themselves in the past was based on the family structure. The tribes of north america were extended family units and we of course have the example in the bible of the Jews organizing based on thier family tribes. I’m sure there are many more examples and perhaps we forget that simple human relationships have the power to aid in keeping the peace as it were.
Perhaps we know we are in civilization when we don’t ‘know’ anyone any more?
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