Sep 182014
 
 September 18, 2014  Posted by at 9:17 am Finance Tagged with: , , ,
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DPC Old Charter Street burying ground, Salem, Massachusetts 1906

The Russian Union of Engineers has issued a report on what happened to flight MH17. The report has now been translated. It doesn’t leave open the option that MH17 was downed by a ground-to-air missile, something all other sources have so far labeled the most likely explanation for what happened on July 17. The Russian Union of Engineers instead claims the plane was attacked by a fighter jet, and that, since the east Ukraine rebels have no such jets, and multiple sides have confirmed there were no Russian jets in the vicinity, this jet had to have been Ukrainian air force.

At the very least the report should be broadly discussed in western media, and western experts asked to refute what parts of it they find fault with.

The full report can be downloaded here.


(Turn on subtitles)

Here is the conclusion of the report:



9. Reconstructing the event

Based on the above, we can draw the following conclusions:

9.1. In relation to the circumstances of the crash of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 jet.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 was carrying out the 17.07.2014 flight Amsterdam – Kuala Lumpur in the flight corridor established by the dispatchers. At the same time, it is likely that manual control was turned off and the plane was on autopilot, flying in a horizontal plane along the route laid out and adjusted by air traffic controllers on the Ukrainian side.

At 17.17-17.20, the Boeing 777 was in Ukrainian airspace near the city of Donetsk at the height of 10100 m. An unidentified combat aircraft (presumably a Su-25 or MiG -29), which was a tier below, on a collision course, in the cloud layer, sharply gained altitude and suddenly appeared out of the clouds in front of the civilian aircraft and opened fire on the cockpit, firing from a 30 mm caliber cannon or smaller. The pilot of a fighter jet can do this while in “free hunting” mode (using onboard radar) or with the help of navigational guidance using airspace situation data from ground-based radar.

As a result of multiple hits from shells there was damage to the cockpit, which suddenly depressurized, resulting in instant death for the crew due to mechanical influences and decompression. The attack was sudden and lasted a fraction of a second; in such circumstances the crew could not sound any alarm as the flight had been proceeding in regular mode and no attack was expected.

Since neither the engines or hydraulic system, nor other devices required for the continuation of the flight were out of commission, the Boeing 777, running on autopilot (as is standard), continued on its horizontal flight path, perhaps gradually losing altitude.

The pilot of the unidentified combat aircraft maneuvered to the rear of the Boeing 777. After that, the unidentified plane remained on the combat course, the pilot provided a target tracking aircraft equipment, took aim and launched his R-60 or R-73 missiles.

The result was a loss of cabin pressure, the aircraft control system was destroyed, the autopilot failed, the aircraft lost the ability to maintain its level flight path, and went into a tailspin. The resulting overload led to mechanical failure of the airframe at high altitudes.

The aircraft, according to the information available from the flight recorders, broke up in the air, but this is possible only in the case of a vertical fall from a height of ten thousand meters, which can only happen when the maximum permissible overload is exceeded. One reason for stalling and going into a tailspin is the inability of the crew to control the aircraft as a result an emergency in the cockpit and the subsequent instantaneous depressurization of the cockpit and the passenger cabin. The aircraft broke up at a high altitude, which explains the fact that the wreckage was scattered over the territory of more than 15 square kilometers.

9.2. In relation to the party responsible for the death of 283 passengers and 15 crew members.

On 17.07.2014, the armed forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk National Republic had no relevant combat aircraft capable of destroying an aerial target similar to the Boeing 777, nor the necessary airfield network, nor the means of radar detection, targeting and tracking.

No combat aircraft of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation violated the airspace of Ukraine, which the Ukrainian side confirms as well as third parties who conduct space surveillance over the situation in Ukraine and in its airspace.

To establish the truth, it is necessary to objectively and impartially investigate all the circumstances of the destruction of the Malaysian Boeing 777, to interview the thousands of citizens who may have seen something. Naturally, experienced professionals should conduct the surveys. To ask the right questions – this is a rigorous science, and a great art in advancing the truth. Important information is contained in the wreckage of the aircraft and the remains of the dead, but this precise information is easy to destroy, distort and hide. And there are plenty of parties interested in concealing the real facts.

As confirmation, Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia signed an agreement on August 8 providing that information about the crash investigation would be disclosed only upon the consent of all parties. “The investigation is ongoing, [utilizing] expertise and other investigative actions” – announced the Spokesman of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine, Yuri Boychenko. “The results will be announced at the conclusion of the investigation and with the consent of all parties that have executed the agreement.”

Procrastination and the evasion of an objective investigation by all sides, with the participation of prestigious international organizations, raises doubts whether the concerned parties will make public the true circumstances surrounding the crash of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Home Forums Russian Union Of Engineers Accuses Ukraine Airforce In MH17 Crash

This topic contains 31 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  John Day 2 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #15212

    DPC Old Charter Street burying ground, Salem, Massachusetts 1906 The Russian Union of Engineers has issued a report on what happened to flight MH17. T
    [See the full post at: Russian Union Of Engineers Accuses Ukraine Airforce In MH17 Crash]

    #15213

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Great catch. The only logical explanation is that Ukraine shot MH-17 down.
    I have some familiarity with weapon systems and ballistics. I believe this report to be a very good assessment of the facts as studied.
    Now, the question is; what is the reason Ukraine shot down MH-17?
    With today’s twisted body politic, I can only imagine a very twisted justification…

    #15215

    halva
    Participant

    It is not true that “all other sources” say that MH17 was downed by a ground-to-air missile. The Perdana Global Peace Movement in Malaysia at its website runs a piece by Michel Chossudovsky under the title “Support MH17: OSCE Monitors identity “Shrapnel and machine-gun-like holes indicating shelling. No evidence of a missile attack. Shot down by a military aircraft.” http://www.perdana4peace.org/2014/support-mh17-truth-osce-monitors-identify-shrapnel-and-machine-gun-like-holes-indicating-shelling-no-evidence-of-a-missile-attack-shot-down-by-a-military-aircraf/

    #15217

    zander.c
    Participant

    Sorry, unrelated to post, but I’ve just caught up with TAE and would like people to see my reply to yesterdays post and comments. (also posted there)

    @ Sprocket “They would not embrace free market bullshit like England”… granted that’s what you have heard.

    With respect that is total and utter bollocks, this man is TEARING SCOTLAND TO PIECES for economic growth, greed and free marketeering.
    I’m sorry Ilargi but you’re just flat wrong! these development atrocities etc. NEVER happened before the SNP came to power and if there is a yes vote today this party will be empowered like never before and Scotland will be put through the mincer by these money obsessed vermin, its simply Pollyanna fantasy to suggest we’ll rid ourselves of the SNP after independence, they are in for ten years following a yes vote and I absolutely dread to think what Scotland will look like after that as everything will be thrown under the bus so that this dictatorial greedy little money grubbing bastard can satisfy his growth at all costs imperative, the very antithesis of TAE philosophy I would have thought.
    So then… my beautiful country has to be trashed from tip to toe so that we can give the establishment a kicking, yeah great if you ain’t got to live with it. Scotland will get another crack at this (circa 2020 IMO) with a party who (hopefully) genuinely care for the country, not a lunatic economic visionary running around destroying the village to save the village, and, after listening to Salmond’s plans for Scotland after a yes vote last night I no longer have a heavy heart about voting no today, London have NEVER torn up so much of this country for profit in sixty years as this lot have done in six.
    Welcome to Scotland industrial theme park. People really need to get on board with what this lot are doing, I’ll give you a starter for ten – the Menie estate Aberdeenshire, SSSI
    designated, an outstanding once in a universe time natural wonder, democratically voted against, overturned and allowed by our Scottish patriot Salmond to pander to DONALD FUCKING TRUMP,…….. there’s oh so much more, but unfortunately I don’t have a spare fortnight to regale you all.
    There was an article at TAE a wee while ago denouncing some east European wilderness area being hydro’ed or whatever… but it’s OK for Salmond to wreak havoc on Scotland as long as behemoth power structures are wobbled?? I’m a NO (this time)

    Z

    #15218

    sprocketsanjay
    Participant

    @zander: My friends in Scotland many of whom are yes must be totally duped by this megalomaniac then. Only one Tory MP in the whole of the country. Could it be they want out because they collectively despise the Tories but they’re always in power in Westminster?

    And yes the consequences are unknown – obviously – but enough people want to take the gamble. What does that tell you about Tory rule from London? You’ve obviously forgotten Thatcher but maybe you’re not as old as me!

    Today the poll of polls shows a no majority. Privatisation of the NHS could be slowed down by this vote. If nothing else the Tories know they’re hanging on by a thread most of which is yarned in Southern England.

    #15219

    Halva, I don’t really see Chossudovsky as a source, not in the sense that I meant to use the word. He’s an opinion man. Stopped reading him eons ago because there’s far too much loose cannon about him for me. What I meant was – major – news sources. They all have the same spin. Luckily, there are plenty other people who don’t buy into that.

    #15220

    Zander

    For some reason I wonder why you’re so sure the Scots will put up with all the craziness you describe. And if they do, isn’t that what they deserve? BTW, Euan in Aberdeen has some sort of referendum special on Energy Matters. He must be feeling shaky today, like so many other Albionians.

    #15221

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    How rude. This is about MH-17.
    Show Raul some respect for his hard work, no?
    Sorry Raul, you jumped in at the same time I posted.
    Maybe I’m out of order…

    #15223

    V. The story everywhere today is Scotland. Wouldn’t even want to get in the way of that.

    #15224

    Euan Mearns
    Participant

    Roel, the report on flight MH17 is very important. I never got a reply from our Foreign Secretary and so will send him the link and a gentle reminder. I did get a reply from Dame Anne Begg asking to be kept informed.

    I guess the Russian report is inconclusive. But it is telling when they say that it is only Russia that are seeking an explanation and that the Dutch report is delayed. The absence of a filmed vapour trail is also rather telling, although it was “overcast” on the day. It will be excruciating embarrassing for NATO to learn that their new best friend in the region might just be responsible.

    #15225

    Euan Mearns
    Participant

    Scotland and FREEDoooooooooooooM

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/poll-tracker

    Good source of polling history. All the polls show NO with a narrow lead. Yes it is rather tense knowing that tomorrow morning may see the start of an 18 month process to leave the UK. I know Roel thinks we should vote yes, but I tend to be risk averse. I juts paid over £100 for a new British Passport and I wouldn’t want that money to be wasted, would I 😉

    This is also an interesting read.

    http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/ewan-morrison-yes-why-i-joined-yes-and-why-i-changed-to-no/

    #15226

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    V. The story everywhere today is Scotland. Wouldn’t even want to get in the way of that.

    No problem. I’m old school… 😉

    #15227

    Euan,

    I find it striking that 1) the Dutch report confidently states there were no planes anywhere near MH17, while the Russians have always said there was. The Dutch team undoubtedly knows this, but never addressed it, and 2) that the Dutch said the holes in the fuselage were consistent with a BUK rocket, while the Russians rule that out precisely because of those same holes.

    Right now, I see Poroshenko addressing the US Congress, and he states as a fact that Russia and the rebels shot down MH17. All I want is facts, but I can’t get them.

    I’m convinced they’re going to start shooting and bombing again soon, because nothing has been solved. East Ukraine will never volunteer to remain part of Ukraine. They’ll point to Scotland as an example of how people can choose to be their own boss.

    #15228

    zander.c
    Participant

    @sprocketsanjay
    I’m hearing you and Ilargi…. really I am, and am as anti-establishment a geezer as you could wish to meet.
    I’m a miners son AND a hill walker and lover of our irreplaceable mountains and glens so…
    Thatcher destroyed our industries and economy, Salmond is destroying our environment, both done these things for money and power and I’m having a hell of a hard time figuring out who is worse… If you are money obsessed its Thatcher if you value the other, finer, better things in life about Scotland it’s Salmond – with more to come if he gains absolute power.
    But never mind the duped maniacal yes supporters, get your butt up to the SSSI designated spectacular sand dunes on the Menie estate and marvel at how they’ve been transformed into a 15k per day golf course for the uber wealthy in a deal cooked up between Mr S and the ever loveable Trump (arch Thatcher-ite) and while journeying marvel at the hills and glens absolutely TRASHED by the hoax that is the industrial wind farm development (do some homework up front on FF input for these monstrosities – our finite world is as good a place as any to start- then get back to me yeah.

    It’s 5pm ish here and I’ve decided not to vote as I despise Westminster AND the dictatorial pestilence at Holyrood. I’m encouraging neither.

    Corp. tax decreases, in bed with Murdoch the beast (remember Milly dowler) and Trump, in bed with multi national multi billion energy company parasites like SSE colluding to destroy our countryside for profit and GDP growth – nothing more – old Maggie would be proud, THOSE are a few of the truths that YES dare not mention by name, of course they are welcome to refute any of this any time they want, I look forward to the deafening silence

    Z.

    #15229

    zander.c
    Participant

    I have just read the link provided by Euan Mearns from Ewan Morrison and am going to the polling station to vote, I’m afraid it all too clearly echoes my own thoughts and experiences and has swayed me convincingly,
    Have enjoyed all the to-ing and fro-ing with others on the site but quite frankly I’ve had more than enough of the neverendum, and am relieved to be free of the indecision.
    I shall now retire to lurkerland but am always here at the AE oasis.

    good luck to all

    Z.

    #15230

    steve from virginia
    Participant

    Su-25 does not fly @ enough altitude to attack passenger jet w/ machine cannon. It is a ground attack aircraft like US A-10.

    Discredits the entire report, written by amateurs w/ axe to grind.

    #15231

    Professorlocknload
    Participant

    “Good luck to all.”

    Yes. Luck is all we have left to believe in here on planet gulag.

    Elections do bring out the believers in Statist fairy tales. As Boris on ZH says, Diebold or die trying.

    But, polarization it is, as dualistic thinking folks adopt the talking points of their perceived benefactors.

    Of course, after the election is over, and both sides of the voting coin begin to realize they were duped, amazement sets in, as they all declare, “We had such high hopes for this politician or that outcome. How could we have been so betrayed?”

    And the State wins!

    Why? Because it seems universal, that most all vote for the lesser of two evils,,,admitting they vote for evil.

    Critical thinkers are always trumped by mob mentality and electioneering hysteria, because the establishment convinces the populace it’s vote is too valuable a thing to waste on fringe candidates and untried ideas. So, it only provides choices from within it’s realm.

    Round and round it goes until another populist arises and smashes it all to bits.

    But for sure, zander, though I understand your frustration, I learned a long time ago that no politician has ever had my best interests at heart. That I must break free of the popular delusion that organized government is anything but evil, and that I must rely on myself, to what ever extent possible, in the end, if I value any semblance of peace of mind.

    Ps. don’t lurk too long. Debate and resistance to totalitarian elements are all that is between us and assorted mushroom clouds simultaneously fogging up the atmosphere.

    #15232

    Diogenes Shrugged
    Participant

    I sincerely don’t know whether I’m correct or mistaken with parts of what I’m about to say, but here’s how my little mind has things stacked up. Any and all guidance from the better minds here would be appreciated.

    More than determining which set of tyrants will rule them, Scots are determining whether to remain with the British pound, migrate to the Euro, or even to issue their own money supply through a state-owned bank (though that last option might just be wishful thinking). That tells me that the whole populist / independence thing is just another “democracy” smokescreen being used to hide the fact that this referendum is about:

    1. The pound versus the Euro
    2. Westminster vs. Brussels
    3. Who gets rights to the oil profits

    After a yes vote, power players resting quietly in the background will move into the vacuum and take control, and if Scots find greater freedom as a result, it will only be in trivial ways. Steal the meat of the country and throw the citizens a bone.

    The American “Declaration of Independence” – – the document itself – – was perhaps the most important product of the American Revolution, as it naturally led to the U.S. Constitution, which attempted to perpetually secure the independence of EACH and every American FROM HIS OWN AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. That is all apparently missing from the Scottish attempt at “independence,” and I shudder to think that they’re possibly choosing between the fire and the frying pan today.

    Karl Denninger writes, “The reason the UK is freaking out is because if Scotland secedes all of the derivatives on UK sovereign debt trigger, and while that may not sound all that awful since they haven’t defaulted (yet) the protection evaporates and that triggering means that holders of said derivatives can force delivery on the derivative contract!”

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229419

    So the immediate aftermath of the Scottish vote might be considerably more “interesting” than most Scots presently realize.

    #15233

    Professorlocknload
    Participant

    MH 17. It’s fate has already been decided. The final marketing package has not been prepared yet. The political engineering associations in the State Department and Capitol Hill are working on it.

    8×10 color glossies will be released in a year or so, after most of the remaining conflicting evidence is disposed of, and short memory spans purged.

    #15235

    Variable81
    Participant

    @steve from virgina,

    A comment from an article over at Washington’s Blog that is worth considering:

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/first-examination-malaysian-mh-17-cockpit-photo-shows-ukrainian-government-shot-plane.html#comment-1523192257

    “Note that the Ukrainians have a model of SU25 that can cruise at 10,000 meters (about 33,000 feet), though its ceiling for short times is much higher. Note that MH17 was ordered by flight control to descend to 33,000 feet from 35,000 feet. “Coincidentally”, that change makes a fighter strike that much easier.

    For weeks prior to its downing, MH17 had avoided the war zone, flying around it each day. On the 17th there is a kink in its flight path, where it appears to have been redirected over the battlefield. UKR refuses to release Air Traffic Control tapes which would indicate who sent MH17 into closed air space.”

    @ilargi,

    For your consideration/commentary:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-18/more-just-gas-natural-resource-reason-ukraine-civil-war

    Old King Coal…

    Cheers,
    GBV

    #15238

    Nassim
    Participant

    “It will be excruciating embarrassing for NATO to learn that their new best friend in the region might just be responsible.”

    From my observations of the way things actually work, I think you have this back to front. This was almost certainly a “Made in USA” false-flag. The fact that the media in the West seems to have been primed to expect a scoop says it all. Quite possibly, the pilots who carried out this act are either Polish or American. I suspect the Ukrainians are just doing as they are told.

    Don’t forget that Rasmussen – secretary general of NATO – was a cheerleader for the Iraq WMD lies.

    “Iraq has WMDs. It is not something we think, it is something we know. Iraq has itself admitted that it has had mustard gas, nerve gas, anthrax, but Saddam won’t disclose. He won’t tell us where and how these weapons have been destroyed. We know this from the UN inspectors, so there is no doubt in my mind. ”

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anders_Fogh_Rasmussen

    A look at Paul Craig Roberts’ article about 9/11 will confirm that we are dealing with total maniacs here:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/09/10/911-13-years-paul-craig-roberts/

    #15239

    John Day
    Participant

    Exit polls predict “NO” takes it 54% to 46%
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/seize-opportunity-salmond-232155199.html#iAq4l7O

    #15240

    Raleigh
    Participant

    Nassim – “From my observations of the way things actually work, I think you have this back to front. This was almost certainly a “Made in USA” false-flag.” Totally agree with you. NATO would be embarrassed? Only if the real truth comes out, and how is that going to happen when you control the truth?

    So far Russia is trying to be transparent, but NATO is not. Where are the conversation logs from Air Traffic Control, which were seized by the Ukraine Secret Service on the day of the accident? Where is the black box transcript from MH17 (the last ten to fifteen minutes of flight time)? Where is the data from the U.S. spy satellite that was flying right overhead?

    NATO is trying to SAVE themselves from embarrassment by not providing these important details. Even Karl Denninger, after reading the Dutch report, said “there was no fighter jet, period.” Aghhhhhhhhh!

    #15241

    TonyPrep
    Participant

    Oh dear, you spend lots of time, quite rightly, telling us that there is no good evidence for anything that happened to MH-17, then this. Personally, I don’t think we’ll ever know exactly what happened to that flight and I’m not prepared to believe either side just because I want to.

    #15242

    Raleigh
    Participant

    Professor – I think you’re right. The truth will be their version of the truth, all wrapped up in a nice tidy package. Anyone asking questions or doubting their version will be labeled a “conspiracy nutcase”. Done.

    Zander – “…I absolutely dread to think what Scotland will look like after that as everything will be thrown under the bus so that this dictatorial greedy little money grubbing bastard can satisfy his growth at all costs imperative…”

    Zander, development is happening everywhere. Consider yourself lucky that you’ve only seen it for the past six years. If it wasn’t Salmond, it would be someone else. The whole world is going this way, at least in countries where there is a rule of law, and in and around the beautiful cities of said countries where council members and politicians allow the old to be demolished, the landscape to be stripped of its beauty, heritage and culture to be massacred, and all for the almighty buck.

    Oh, the politicians cry out that they’re allowing this to happen because of JOBS, or that “we need more growth”. It’s always hard to argue against jobs, so they shut you up this way. Of course, we all know they could care less about jobs. What they’re really interested in is lining their own pockets (or the pockets of their brother-in-law, whatever).

    Just yesterday I read a comment from a Chinese citizen who is looking to get into Scotland. This corrupt/hot money is desperately trying to get out (before they’re strung up by angry peasants), and our greedy politicians/bankers/developers will sell our countries down the river to get it.

    You reject Salmond, but get ready for a deluge. It doesn’t matter who is in power. If you want to stop what’s happening (and what is going to happen to your country), be prepared for a battle. They will ruin your country.

    #15243

    Raleigh
    Participant

    TonyPrep – “Personally, I don’t think we’ll ever know exactly what happened to that flight and I’m not prepared to believe either side just because I want to.”

    About the only thing we can do is call for ALL evidence to be forthcoming (see my post above). If there was an international investigation with ALL evidence provided (the black box, the conversation logs, the satellite data, the Russian data, a report from impartial plane crash investigators), why wouldn’t we be able to get to the truth? It would be screaming out at us.

    So let’s call for ALL of the evidence, not just selective evidence.

    #15244

    Raleigh
    Participant

    Here is a list (towards bottom of page) of the Ukraine’s aircraft inventory. Note that they have 55 SU-27’s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force

    Maximum speed: 1,550 mph
    Service ceiling: 62,000 feet
    Rate of climb: 52,000 feet/minute

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27

    I keep hearing that Ukraine’s SU-25 wouldn’t go to the height of MH17, but maybe they were flying SU-27’s. They certainly have them.

    #15245

    Gravity
    Participant

    Gravity is an affirmative algorithm.

    #15247

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    steve from virginia
    Su-25 does not fly @ enough altitude to attack passenger jet w/ machine cannon. It is a ground attack aircraft like US A-10.

    Variable81 is correct. The later variants of the SU-25 have the ceiling, weapons (A-A missiles) and the radar.

    #15248

    Professorlocknload
    Participant
    #15250

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    I don’t know if I believe this but, an anonymous millionaire has offered $30 million for the facts of who shot down MH-17.
    I apologize in advance for the source;
    http://news.yahoo.com/mysterious-millionaire-pay-30m-know-exactly-shot-down-171700050.html

    We’ll see…

    #15259

    John Day
    Participant

    Truthout has an excellent scholarly article, which looks at the stages between colonialism and genocide.
    In colonialism, something like slave-labor is needed from the underclass.
    In genocide, only their property is desired, not their bodies.
    Numerous instances are given by the university professor author.
    Colonialism in India was at one end, and genocide of Native Americans (ongoing in South America) at the other end.
    Palestinians have been getting run through this ringer, from one end to the other, and genocide is now becoming preferable to Israeli elites.
    Lots of labor can be brought in from other countries, and sent back at any time, as is being done.
    Humans are a commodity.
    http://truth-out.org/news/item/26254-the-political-economy-of-israeli-apartheid-and-the-specter-of-genocide

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