Jan 312015
 
 January 31, 2015  Posted by at 11:47 pm Finance Tagged with: , , , ,


DPC Grand Central Station and Hotel Manhattan, NY 1903

On the one hand, I’ve written so much about Greece lately I fear I’m reaching overkill. On the other hand, there’s so much going on with Greece, and so fast, that I wouldn’t know here to begin. Moreover, I’m thinking and trying to figure what is what and what is actually happening so much it’s hard to stay focused for more than a short while before something else happens again and it all starts all over. And I’m thinking it must feel that way for the Syriza guys as well.

One thing I do increasingly ponder is that it gets ever harder to see the eurozone survive. In its present shape and form, that is. Damned if you do, doomed if you don’t, is an expression I’ve used before. It’s like this big experiment that a bunch of power hungry Europeans really get off on, that now all of a sudden is confronted with the democracy they all only thought existed in books of history anymore.

But if you take your blind hunger far enough to kill people, or ‘only’ condemn them to lives of misery, they will eventually try to speak up, even if not nearly soon enough. It’s like a law of physics, or like Icarus in, yes, Greek mythology: try to reach too high, and you’ll find you can’t.

What is Brussels supposed to do now? Throw Athens off a cliff? Not respect the voice of the Greek people? That doesn’t really rhyme with the ideals of the union, does it? If they want to keep the euro going, they’re going to have to give in to a probably substantial part of what Syriza is looking for. Or Greece will leave the eurozone, and bust it wide open, exposing its failures, its lack of coherence, and especially its lack of democratic and moral values.

The problem with giving in, though, is that there are large protest demonstrations in Spain and Italy too. Give anything at all to Greece, and the EU won’t be able to avoid giving it to others as well. And by then you’re talking real money.

They called it upon themselves. They got too greedy. They thought those starving Greek grannies would not be noticed enough to derail their big schemes. That claiming “much progress has been made”, as Eurogroup head Dijsselbloem did again this week, would be considered more important than the fact that an entire eurozone member nation has been thrown into despair.

That’s a big oversight no matter how you put it. The leadership can be plush and comfy in Berlin, Paris, Helsinki, but that doesn’t excuse them sporting blinders. And now they know. Or, let’s say, are beginning to know, because they still think they can ‘win this battle’, ostensibly with the aim of deepening the Greek misery even further, while continuing to proclaim that “much progress has been made”.

Not very smart. At least that much is obvious. But what else is? Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis declares in front of a camera that Greece ever paying back its full debt is akin to the Santa Claus story. Less than 24 hours later, PM Tsipras says of course Greece will pay back its debt. Varoufakis lashed out about Syriza not being consulted on EU sanctions against Russia, but shortly after their own Foreign Minister was reported to have said he reached a satisfactory compromise on the sanctions with his EU peers.

Discontent, confusion, or something worse, in the ranks? Hard to tell. What we can tell, however, is that the obvious discomfort with Dijsselbloem, Draghi, and the entire apparatus in Brussels – and Frankfurt – is a fake move. Either that or it’s only foreplay. If Yanis and Alexis want to get anywhere, they’ll need to take on Wall Street and its international, American, French, German, TBTF banks, primary dealers. And if there’s one thing those guys don’t like, it’s democracy.

Syriza is not really up against the EU or ECB, or the Troika, that’s a sideshow. They’re taking the battle to the IMF, a sort of silent partner in the Troika, and the organization that rules the world for the rich and the banks they own. And that, if they had paid a bit more attention and a bit less hubris, could have gone on the way they have, small squeeze after small squeeze, without hardly anyone noticing, until the end of – this – civilization. But no. It had to be more.

It’s going to be a bloody battle. And it hasn’t even started yet. But kudos to all Greeks for starting it. It has to be done. And I don’t see how the euro could possibly survive it.

Home Forums It’s Greece vs Wall Street

This topic contains 13 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  TheTrivium4TW 3 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #18779

    DPC Grand Central Station and Hotel Manhattan, NY 1903 On the one hand, I’ve written so much about Greece lately I fear I’m reaching overkill. On the
    [See the full post at: It’s Greece vs Wall Street]

    #18780

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    Agree with all.
    Time to pay close attention to how this goes down. We’re about to find out who is the real boss…

    #18782

    rapier
    Participant

    Syriza does not have the luxury of speaking with one voice like all our entrenched parties and institutions. In the modern world of modern communications filled with institutions composed of individuals who gladly and eagerly subsume their individuality to their company, party or NGO, all organized under the modern corporate model rarely is anything said in public which has any meaning at all. It’s all platitudes vaguely or explicitly affirming the party line.

    Real people in more loosely organized groups are messier. Freedom is messier too so there you go. I figure loose organizations stand almost no chance against the modern corporate networded model which is the model of the EU and the US government. Again and again I come back to Karl Rove’s quote. The quote of the century so far, circa 2004.

    The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

    #18783

    discovergold
    Participant

    No Kudos to all Greeks, you are giving them a lot of credit the way you are seeing it and the way you seeing it is wrong. If the Greeks know so much about their financial condition today, they would not be in this mess to begin with, all they want is not to pay anymore money because they don’t have it. Did you ever consider to see what they produce? Nothing that any one in the world really needs, they buy a BMW or a Benz from the Germans and in return they sell them olives, cheese, peaches…
    How about the 3 sets of accounting books they kept before THEY join the EU.
    I must say, its an embarrassment to the civilized world to see this financial ruin to a place I called home.

    #18785

    John Day
    Participant

    There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
    Varoufakis and Tsipras have begun the crystallization of the Zeitgeist into a heretofore thwarted mass movement of humanity.
    I hope they live to see next Christmas. Really, I do.
    It looks like Podemos in Spain is also animated by the same spirit. Spanish elections…
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-31/greek-social-contagion-tens-thousands-rally-support-spains-anti-austerity-podemos-pa

    You know, it doesn’t have to be Greece rolling over to stay in an EU controlled by the global money-power, or Grexit.
    There is the potential solution of changing the global financial system, beginning with “the shock of 2015”.
    That has a ring to it, doesn’t it?

    #18788

    V. Arnold
    Participant

    @ John Day
    There is the potential solution of changing the global financial system, beginning with “the shock of 2015″.

    I think there is no doubt the financial system is changing. Iceland started it, but nobody followed. And now there is Syriza with Podemos, hot on their heels
    The question is; what will the U.S. do in response? These types of changes usually cause war. The Chinese curse is upon us; indeed, we are living in exciting times.
    Spain and Italy may be the proverbial straw; but whose (and how many) back will be broken?

    #18795

    rapier
    Participant

    RE discovergold

    GS gladly helped them cook the books and everyone in Brussels knew it. So too did those marketing Greek bonds, that would be the worlds banking giants the Primary Dealers, and those buyers should have known too. So everyone knew the emperor had no clothes but in a twist on the old tale a new emperor comes in and says ‘I’m naked’ and then the viewers are shocked, pretending they had no idea.

    As to Greek production and trade of course they didn’t belong in the EU at all. Yet it was Germany and the strong nations who wanted her. Why? So Greece could get easy credit to buy their stuff. Thus with the first paragraph the circle is complete. Well except the credit being payed off.

    #18798

    cloudhidden
    Participant

    @discover gold. ” Did you ever consider to see what they produce? Nothing that any one in the world really needs, they buy a BMW or a Benz from the Germans and in return they sell them olives, cheese, peaches…”

    IMHO, the world needs olives, cheese, and peaches far more than it needs a BMW or Benz.

    #18801

    John Day
    Participant

    Let me float a transitional solution for Greece, the EU and global finance.
    Rules can’t be “broken” by banks, so they will need to be changed by politicians.
    As part of the EU QE, the Greek Central Bank gets approved to conjure Euros to buy ALL the Greek government bonds being held by the Troika.
    Others must be allowed to take their turns at this, of course.
    Going forward, Greece will balance her budget on taxes and fees, the old-fashioned way.
    Others will do the same after they monetize their debt.
    The plan Lord Keynes presented at Bretton Wood in 1944 (from this article posted here https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/30/syriza-finance-minister-big-idea-will-germany-accept-it ) to recycle surpluses from creditor to debtor nations, allowing a gold system to function well as a more minor buffer for trade, could then be instated, and the 1944 system, allowing, but not demanding growth and contraction, would work.
    This could go global.
    There would be a one time monetization of debt, then something more akin to Islamic banking, where investments in a venture pay off as the venture fares, with a long term link, and no transfer of all risk to the working-partner from the financial partner.
    It could be done without war, and it would cut rentiers from the system, but most of them could find useful tasks somewhere, in time.
    The fact of one generation supporting it’s parents and grandparents would be recognized as a fact. That has to happen. We need to deal with it as such.
    It’s gonna’ be hard.
    Charles Hugh Smith has it worked out how he can comfortably retire at 91. https://www.oftwominds.com/blogjan15/retirement1-15.html

    #18804

    Greenpa
    Participant

    🙂 I was also recalling this “we make our own reality now” quote in the past couple days. Big Oil; Big Ag, and Big Money – still have CEOs who truly believe this, and will right up until “real” reality hits. Never underestimate the power of delusional people in tiny enclaves.

    #18805

    Greenpa
    Participant

    Varoufakis continues to be very smart, in my estimation; this most recently:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31083574

    He is framing the problem in terms of the “well being of the COMMON European people” – there are a lot of them, and I’d bet a lot of them will be glad to have him on their side. Smart; bei mir. 🙂

    Something else to put in the equation for this unique situation; these people now head a sovereign nation. Which includes, theoretically their armed forces. Yes, crossing the Big Money (or big anything) people is VERY likely to wind up with your death or disappearance. But; if they have time to find a couple of colonels with faithful troops- you’ve got a much better chance of actually surviving; and also – the ability to strike first.

    That’s something that has not been done recently; but historically is quite common; the king declares the opposition illegal; imprisons/beheads them, and seizes their assets. How many would cheer, today, if a few Huge Bankers – were arrested tonight, imprisoned, and charged with crimes against humanity? Don’t try that unless you have a real army; of course. But. They may; in a few days.

    #18808

    Boogaloo
    Participant

    @discovergold

    Why do you blame the debtor? the creditors knew what they were getting themselves into, and they should have known better.

    Let the new Greek government drag this out long enough to inspire the Italians, the Spanish and the Portuguese to follow in their footsteps. Strength in numbers.

    #18811

    polistra
    Participant

    Maybe you’ve spotted this already, but it’s significant:

    https://rt.com/business/228311-croatia-erases-debt-poorest/

    While ‘new-fashioned” Syriza continues to talk and waver, “old-fashioned” Croatia has actually DONE SOMETHING. It declared a JUBILEE for about 60,000 of its poorest people. The government worked with creditors to erase their debts entirely, giving those people a fresh start.

    JUBILEE!

    #18813

    TheTrivium4TW
    Participant

    Asking the Debt Money Monopoly for a jubilee is like an antelope asking a hungry lion for a “hand up” after having twisted their ankle and fallen down. I mean, really people?
    The root cause is fraud in the form of money P, lent from nothing, that requires P+I to pay off when the lender accrues I and has no requirement to make it available to the lender.
    I hear the Greeks saying that they can’t pay the debts, BUT THEY DON’T EXPLAIN WHY THEY CAN’T PAY THE DEBTS.
    The system is not broken, it is fixed. It is rigged. It is all a fraud run by criminals who hire rhetoricians for millions so that the Debt Money Monopoly can direct money where they want and earn interest literally on most of the world’s money supply.
    And if your country is paying interest to the Debt Money Monopoly then it is likely your country is 1. being bombed already or 2. on a shot list of countries to be bombed.
    “Wall Street” is far to vague a term to reveal actual, useable meaning. Wall Street is on the game board, NOT AN ACTUAL PLAYER. The Debt Money Monopoly – the human majority OWNERS AND CONTROLLERS OF THE MONEY CENTER BANKS – is a precise term that properly identifies the villains instead of hiding their identities in an abstract “Wall Street” descriptions. But, I get it.
    “Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him. For if he begins to sell to certain retail dealers, to any retail dealers, the (Debt Money Monopoly financed and controlled*) monopoly will refuse to sell to those dealers, and those dealers, afraid, will not buy the new man’s wares.”
    —The New Freedom, Chapter I: The Old Order Changeth

    *Once can not create a monopoly in America without money and money is only issued into society by the Debt Money Monopoly.

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