Raúl Ilargi Meijer
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Babble,
I’m afraid we left behind discussions on cold fusion, zero point energy, and more, years ago. They’re pipedreams. Moreover, seeing what damage we have done with the available energy to date, dare we even imagine what we could do with virtually unlimited power sources?
Man is like any other form of life: when provided with an energy surplus, we’ll proliferate and multiply and use it all up as fast as we can. And well before we’ve used it all, we’ll crash because no organism can survive in a medium of its own waste.
RE:
“ashvin wrote:
Is this censorship debate really continuing here??
….
So… can we get over this now?No, we can’t.”
Ilargi:
Yes we can, and we have. This silly waste of time topic is closed, any additional comments will be deleted. Ashvin has made it abundantly clear why he did what he did. Insulting people is not part of what we want here, and neither is discussing it ad infinitum like a bunch of old wives. We also do not need people to tell us what we should or should not do.OK, first of all, Agelbert et al, I run this site, not Ashvin. Not to take anything away from him, ot anyone else (Nicole!) , but that’s how it is, even if Ash is a full-fledged moderator who took over a lot of things while Nicole and I were bouncing around down under at the speed of pinballs, and has my full blessing until and unless I say otherwise (and that would be between the two of us).
If Agelbert is confused about who runs this joint, others might be as well, and that’s not a good thing, it’s important to know who’s responsible in the end. So there you are.
As for Karpatok, though I still can’t seem to figure out what THE question is (maybe someone can tell me?!), I sincerely hope (s)he was drunk when all that stuff came down. It all doesn’t look very intellectually stimulating, and it makes very little sense to me. What are we accused of here, making money with bible quotes? Really?
If and when Ashvin feels that he needs to ban someone temporarily, again, he has my full blessing, it’s not something any of us do lightly, though quite a few self-righteous folks have accused us of doing just that through the years. Comes with the territory. And I lose no sleep at all about what other people feel or think about that.
RE, I see you have more comments now than anyone, in fact, over twice as much as even Ashvin has. Here’s suggesting that quantity is smothering quality in your case. Show some constraint please. I also don’t really like all the incessant links and other references to your own site, it starts to reek of blog whoring at some point, and nobody likes that smell. If you want to write something for TAE, send it to me, and I’ll consider posting it.
Oh, now I see what you meant, you just didn’t read well; what I said was:
“their populations were largely left to fend for themselves”
WIKI:
“The Civil War left Greece in ruins, and in even greater economic distress than it had been following the end of German occupation. Additionally, it divided the Greek people for ensuing decades, with both sides vilifying their opponents. Thousands languished in prison for many years, or were sent into exile on the islands of Gyaros and Makronisos. Many others sought refuge in communist countries or emigrated to Australia, Germany, the USA, UK, Canada and elsewhere.
The polarization and instability of Greek politics in the mid-1960s was a direct result of the Civil War and the deep divide between the leftist and rightist sections of Greek society. A major crisis showing this was the murder of the left-wing politician Gregoris Lambrakis in 1963 (the inspiration for the Costa Gavras political thriller, Z). The crisis of the Apostasia followed in 1965, together with the “ASPIDA affair”, which involved an alleged coup plot by a left-wing group of officers; the group’s alleged leader was Andreas Papandreou, son of George Papandreou, the leader of the Center Union political party and the country’s prime minister at the time.
On April 21, 1967, a group of rightist and anti-communist army officers executed a coup d’état and seized power from the government, using the political instability and tension of the time as a pretext. The leader of the coup, George Papadopoulos, was a member of the right-wing military organization IDEA (“Sacred Bond of Greek Officers”), and the subsequent military regime (later referred to as the Regime of the Colonels) lasted until 1974.”
Makes you wonder whom that Marshall plan money benefited, doesn’t it?
Why do you bring up the term safe haven when I don’t? I simply said get out of the way to the extent that you can. Which for many is plenty hard, given family, friends, community.
“No that is not what you simply said. You said, “Put your remaining wealth somewhere where no-one can get their hands on it.” That sounds like a Safe Haven to me.”
And it may sound like a hole in the ground to someone else; I still didn’t use the term. You can’t have a serious discussion when people feel free to read into your words whatever they see fit.
“All the problems in the credit markets are directly traceable to money’s role as a proxy for Oil in the industrial era.”
That is an interpretation issue just like the one mentioned above. All money comes from oil?! Hammer meet nail.
“Looking out into the future 10 or 20 years and saying “Money will always be with us” might be true;”
I don’t think I even know anyone who says that.
You can’t just change the goalposts on anything anyone writes and run away with that. It makes for a huge waste of time for everyone. I write what I write, not what you or anyone else think I should be writing. To then find comments that address something else than what I actually write is just strange, and not very useful.
RE
Why do you bring up the term safe haven when I don’t? I simply said get out of the way to the extent that you can. Which for many is plenty hard, given family, friends, community. Which is just what you need by the way: no better prospect than with the people you trust. Helps if they understand what you’re getting at, that’s true.
Depletion of energy as the “real problem” is debatable. It certainly isn’t in the short run, and that’s what we’re addressing here, or at least I am. You can try to see money as proxy, for many it will be shackles. “Not all that abstract after all”, they’ll think while being led away.
Permaculture (like Transition Towns) has as a benefit that it produces actual food. As a movement it is vulnerable because few involved understand the weight of the economic system and its demise on their undertakings.
There may indeed not be an ideal place, if only because that place will not be the same for everyone. And even if it were, that all by itself would bring along a whole new set of issues.
What I think people should do, and can do, is to decrease their dependency on the systems they rely on. Whether that means moving away from where they live is so different for so many that no-one can answer that question.
Oh, and money, cash, as we know it, will be around for a while. Down the line all fiat money is doomed, but stashing some in a mattress of sorts is a whole lot better than leaving it in a bank. Short term sovereign bonds will be good for a while longer as well.
Got to be practical. Stop trying to see too far ahead. Be ready for tomorrow, and only if you got that down, look at the day after that. Preferably not on your own.
Sorry, boyo, Ash didn’t post that. And yeah, we can all wax at length on the meaning and definition of growth, but that doesn’t mean it has all that much to do with the article. I think Steady State is an interesting discussion, but it’s also one that I closed a while back: we’re all too human to steady any sort of state. Also, I doubt that the death of 6+ billion people will leave any of us happily contemplating our spiritual growth while the bodies decay by the side of the road. But to each his/her own.
gliescin et al
The schedule will be updated as dates become available; I just put in Wellington and Turangi, and I know Auckland is also there. North of that, I don’t know, it would be nice to do some talks there too.
Skip,
I’m told that they do labor-for-knowledge here. You’d need to find out yourself where and how to contact them though.
I also think that you can figure out a lot of things by going through the docs and videos they have up.
Susan, just read through the main earthship.com site and you’ll find the concept is enormously adaptable. I don’t think 1/3 acre is too small, but I’m sure you can find the details there.
