Afewknowthetruth
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I am no fan of the UN but the fact is, we are leaving the era of overheating and are entering the era of ‘boiling’.
And it will all be made worse and worse by the corrupt political system and fossil fuel dependent economic-financial system until something ‘breaks’.
From yesterday:
Observer – Great, now we have no science again. So how does that keep happening? People drop in, say there is Science, then when asked for the details, withdraw and never respond with a discussion of the science they refer to?
Dr D. I see you have joined the blatant lying brigade. You know full well that Observer made several comments in which he extensively elaborated the science behind the current super-heating (due to excess atmospheric CO2) that we are witnessing. And he became utterly exasperated by the idiotic responses of you know who.
Clearly the purpose of your comments is to denigrate and ultimately drive away anyone who reports actual data or actual science, i.e. disagrees with the outlandish narratives presented by you and others on TAE.
Guess what, you have succeeded, and TAE is increasing noted as being source of misinformation -particularly on environmental mattes- rather than platform for promotion and discussion of essential truths. I have noted the significant number of commenters who have given up banging their heads against the walls of ignorance, stupdity and nastiness that have increasingly charactersied TAE.
“280 ppm preindustrial to 420+ ppm current that has occurred since humans adopted mass scale use of fossil fuels. A 50% increase and counting”
Like this. He starts from the conclusion: CO2 is RELEVANT. I don’t take that as a starting belief to my religion. Show me. My age has gone up 50% in the same time period too, but that also didn’t make the earth heat up. Science is where you propose a CAUSALITY. A chain of process. That can be discussed, but can also be disproven. I’ve never seen either.
Dr, I suggest that you do not go down the path of ignorance and stupidity that jb-hb went down because if you do, I will chew you up and spit you out the way I did him. Declaring, that CO2 is not relevant puts you on the lunatic fringe and demonstrates that you are ignorant, stupid and manipulative. That is something you have been repeatedly doing and have been doing it quite pompously. It is not the path to enlightenment or survival.
The fact that you have ‘never seen’ proof of the causal link between increased atmospheric CO2 and increased heat retention is clearly because you haven’t bothered to look.
Try this, for a start in basic science education that you are obviously so badly lacking:
Fourier, Foote, Tyndall, Arrhenius… it’s all there. All the basic stuff that you say you do not know.
And what is the bet that you will absolutely refuse to view the information provided?
After all, you can only continue to ignorantly bloviate is you remain ignorant. Right? “Ignorance must be maintained.”
Therefore, instead of becoming informed, you celebrate ignorance and stupidity and are proud of your ignorance and stupidity.
These are indeed, ‘interesting times’, as everything gets progressively demolished by forces directly attributable to overuse of fossil fuels and the ensuing destruction of the environment that people like you celebrate and promote.
P.S. I’ll hang around a little longer and keep tabs on the blatant lies you and others on TAE promote, until the orbital factors raise the average temperature of this portion of the Earth and the garden comes to life.
It’s still winter here, and rather cold -it will be for a few more weeks- so I can spend a little more time on another round of truth that many on TAE do not want to hear.
As recently pointed out, the annual increase in atmospheric CO2 has been around 2.7 ppm per annum over the past couple of years, four times the increase recorded in the 1950s.
And, as recently pointed out, year-on-year increases fluctuate somewhat as they average that 2.7 ppm annual increase.
It is therefore very ominous that today’s reported increase is yet again exceedingly high, following on from a series of very high values.
Jul. 27, 2023 422.84 ppm
Jul. 27, 2022 418.37 ppm
1 Year Change 4.47 ppmThis corresponds with the fastest melt of the Greenland ice sheet ever recorded and the lowest Antarctic sea-ice cover ever recorded, plus the longest periods of excess heat recorded in both Eurasia and the Americas.
We can conjecture that the unprecedented enormous forest fires witnessed recently, in combination with the superheating of ocean waters triggering positive feedbacks, are now pushing the climate system that was destabilised via industrialism long ago into even more dangerous territory.
On the matter of how corrupt political forces and short-term corporate interests prevented action on curtailing the use of fossil fuels when it could have been effective in mitigating the temperature rise (1980s to 19990s) via deliberate promotion of false narratives (c.f. jb-hb), this superb presentation sums it up nicely.
As Germ would say, WASF. (Our children and grandchildren most certainly are, the Northen Hemisphere somewhat faster than the Southern Hemisphere).
The aversion so many people have to facing reality, especially environmental and ecological reality, is understandable. However, that aversion to facing reality is a major contributor to the rapidly worsening (being made worse) reality.
Observer wrote
I really will drop it now as there are some commentators on this site that just don’t seem to see the bigger picture (i.e. a complete waste of time giving a calm account of the geology and earth science underpinning planetary change and why the last 200 years is an anomaly – best to just shut up and get on with my day job which might actually contribute something useful to society). There seems to be conflagration of skeptical voices that seems impossible to convince to take a wider view and resort to ad hominem attacks which is ramping up on both sides and is unhealthy. Even if the impacts are only 10% of what is ‘predicted’ by the ‘models’ it’s still going to be pretty shit.
Although a scientist myself I certainly don’t ascribe to all “the science” as prescribed by the powers-that-be because they don’t seem to understand the basics of the scientific method (neither do a lot of my peers specifically if they are commercial science shills).
I’d like to think I do have a pretty good grasp on a wide range of science now that I’m working in agriculture and have taken a broader view of how global challenges are going to impact food production – hence my concerns that homo saps could be in deep do-do very soon. Irrespective of what happens in the environment, the economy crashing (due to collapsing energy security) will massively impact supply chains, which will seriously impact farmers with ‘consumers’ in quick succession. Not good for ‘conventional’ ag. nor society in general. We’ll be following organic and regenerative pathways whether ‘business’ likes it or not and localization will be the call of the day.
As for the Covid ‘follow the science’ BS:
There are pretty good reasons for why mRNA vaccines never made it to stage 3 clinical trials despite being investigated for nearly 20 years as a possibility. The reasons being that they come with serious side effects. Without emergency use authorization these ‘products’ would never have been approved. Governments mandating based on the shoddy science and complete lack of transparency and complete lack of informed consent is criminal IMO. Unfortunately to continue to function and support my family I had to take the poison otherwise by-by livelihood and hello immediate poverty (and inability to prepare for the economic storm ahead). Thank goodness boosters were not mandated in my country.Definitely signing out now as measured voices and emerging theory on the trajectory of the climate story don’t seem to be welcome at TAE. I’ll go back to Observing and shut-the-f#$k-up. Thanks jb-hb and aspnaz for destroying (for me anyway) what in many ways is a great platform for hearing about real news, real issues and real events.
I think the last sentence sums it up.
Thanks jb-hb and aspnaz for destroying (for me anyway) what in many ways is a great platform for hearing about real news, real issues and real events
Me too.
That said, I do have free time at the moment, and I feel it is a worthwhile to spend some of that time challenging demolishing the schoolboyish nonsense that these two present, ad infinitum, and to present the facts and the actual science. Bullshit unchallenged might just be believed.
The other aspect you have highlighted is, of course, the more the garbage jb-hb and aspnaz post, the further TAE goes drain.
I note that other commenters have had run-ins with these persistent trolls and have got sick of them and have left.
There was a time when I used to recommend TAE to others. But that is no longer the case. RIM really should take note how much a pair of persistent liars and clowns jb-hb and aspnaz have wrecked the website. RIM’s persisted posting of items refuting well established physics and chemistry really don’t help the cause of promoting truth or promoting TAE.
None so blind as those who will not see.
In the short term, it has now been reduced to a game, in which jb-hb posts twisted garbage and fails to addfress any of the issues while I pull his idiotic narratives to pieces.
But even that game gets tiresome; as above, I wasn’t going to post on TAE today. It was only jb-hb’s latest ad hominem attack that spurred me to do so. Once the weather improves (midwinter at the moment), I too will become an occasional observer again. And it will be TAE’s loss, and society’s loss, not mine.
I have watched many websites go under over the past decade or so, as operators and the trolls they encouraged failed to see the light.
I wasn’t going to bother with today’s CO2.earth update. But since jb-hb is so adamant that the CO2 numbers do not go up year on year, I have decided to.
Todays reported numbers show another very bad year-to-year pairing. (No surprise at all).
Jul. 26, 2023 422.66 ppm
Jul. 26, 2022 418.66 ppm
1 Year Change 4.00 ppmBefore jb-hb gets a chance to start declaring that there is ‘no increase’ because ‘422.66 = 0.004% and 418.66 = 0.004% and 0.004 minus 0.004 = 0’, let me point out that when Keeling commenced measurements in the late 1950s the recorded annual differences of around 0.7 ppm per annum. A year ago atmospheric CO2 was 418.66 ppm; one year later it was 422.66 ppm.
That said, I’m sure jb-hb can come up with some means to dismember and distort the observed data and ‘prove’ his completely fake narrative, that ‘atmospheric CO2 is not increasing and that the Earth’s temperature does no respond to changes in atmospheric CO2’.
As I pointed out yesterday, the portion of emissions absorbed by the oceans on a daily basis depends on factors such as wind speeds, storms etc. (Also, Observer pointed out that the warmer oceans become and the more saturated they become, the lower their capacity to absorb atmospheric CO2.)
Whilst high (3ppm to 5 ppm) annual difference values are to be expected because nature generally does not act in straight, invariable lines but fluctuates along trend lines, the trend in difference values is relentlessly upward as the years pass -which is no surprise when industrial humans are consuming increasing quantities of fossil fuels with lower EROEI and the permafrosts are melting, releasing CO2 and CH4.
So, todays data informs us that the current rate of change compared to the 1950s is 4 divided by 0.8 -= five times the rate recorded by Keeling in the 1950s.
We wait in eager anticipation of jb-hb getting to work on today’s data, converting everything to percentages, rounding up and down as suits his narratives, and then declaring that ‘nothing is happening’.
Relentless bullshit and made-up numbers from jb-hb!!!! -as per the response on the last thread.
But we all know jb-hb is not the least bit interested in actual data or proper analysis, which is why he avoids like the plague the massive surge in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm preindustrial to 420+ ppm current that has occurred since humans adopted mass scale use of fossil fuels. A 50% increase and counting. 420/280 = 1.5 = a 50% increase, jb-hb. Well, it does by normal mathematics. Who knows what it is by jb-hb’s ‘new maths’.
No response at all from jb-hb on this graph, of course. Never will be, because jb-hb, like all the scince deniers, has no asnwers.
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
Let’s examine hb-jb’s latest offering of misquoting, bullshit and deliberate manipulation that he made up for today’s posting of nonsense. Just for amusement because one cannot take anything he writes seriously.:
Afewknowthetruth said yesterday:
Jul. 25, 2023 422.04 ppm
Jul. 25, 2022 418.67 ppm
1 Year Change 3.37 ppm (0.80%)I love that in the space of 12 hours, CO2 1 year change went down from over 3%, progressively decreasing through various percentages until it hit 0.8%
No, jb-hb, the annual change did not go down from over 3% (your made-up number) in a matter of 12 hours. There never was a 3%. You just made up that number (as pointed out yesterday)
That would indicate that the rate of change of CO2 change must be decreasing quite rapidly if it goes from 3.7+% to only 0.8% in the space of 12 hours – we know rapid change is super significant
NO, jb-hb, there never was any 3.7+%. You made up that number, as detailed yesterday.so it’s like you are trying to slowly creep towards accuracy while not having to admit any mathematical errors
I really don’t know what you mean, since it is you who is ALWAYS inaccurate.
but STILL
Jul. 25, 2023 422.04 ppm [0.04%]
Jul. 25, 2022 418.67 ppm [0.04%]0.04% – 0.04% = 0% change
I’m glad jb-hb is not my banker or accountant, because if he were, he’d be rounding down the $422.04 in my account to $400.00 and pocketing the difference. And rounding up the $418.67 in his own account to $420.00 and declaring both accounts to contain the same amount!!!
This time, I’m using this thing from science (you know Science, right?) called SIGNIFICANT DIGITS. I convert 422.04 ppm to % and get 0.042204%. Then I realize the farther to the right the #, the less fine our precision in scientific measurement. The less scientifically RELAIBLE. We stand an increasing chance of being way off once we are getting into thousandths of A percent or tens of thousandths OF a percent. So we stick with significant digits to hundredths OF a percent and lop off the rest. FOR SCIENCE. We like science and not witch-doctoring, after all.
As previously noted, only an idiot would convert whole number ppm measurements to %s. No one in the scientific community expresses ppm atmospheric concentrations as %. But then jb-jb is not a scientist. Clown probably be the best descriptor.
If you combine your new knowledge of the scientific term significant digits with an online calculator to help you convert ppm to %, I think this will really help you.
I have an\ top Honours Degree in Chemistry and have spent five decades on reporting and analysis of chemical data, so doubt you will ever be able to help me with anything.
Do you understand that I have been continually showing my work, like any 3rd grader could do, but you never do show your math – do you realize how that looks, how the more you argue, the more you project confidence, the more you project contempt for people who disagree with you, the WORSE you look?
Actually, you have not shown us you work at all, jb-hb. You have not addressed any of the fundamental matters at all i.e. the surge in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm to 420+ ppm and have simply demonstrated the level of deceit you are prepared to engage in by rounding down numbers and rounding up numbers to call them the same (422 is not the same as 418) , and in the case if the ‘3.74% annual change’ simply invented a number.
I don’t know why I should believe you when your entire argument rests on the far righthand numbers – the LEAST significant digits – of figures created BY Climate Scientists
Less than a week ago, you were crowing about “highest temperatures ever” about “scientists” purposely measuring hot ground instead of air temperatures. But you never retracted nor apologized. And you NEVER EVER do. For verified lies.
That is just a blatant lie, jb-hb. I have been highlighting the record ocean temperatures and loss of ice. Been doing that for years. Land surface temperatures bounce around all over the place. But are, of course rising. Especially in the Arctic region, where it matters most.
Despite various scandals involving Climate “Scientists” measuring jet engine exhaust temperatures, manipulating models, and outright lying, you express NO concern for accuracy in this “scientific” realm, never report on THAT, never apologize for parroting lies, never retract anything. So you are not interested in the science of climate per se.
There have been no scandal involving climate scienetist. ure, there was fake narrative doing the rounds 20 years ago concerning the East Anglia dat. But it was fossil fuel company sponsored the climate change deniers who ended up with egg on their faces. As for jet engine temperatures, again that is just jb-hb made-up nonsense. Give us the reference and details and internet links if you believe it’s true.
Why should we even believe your ppm figures? At the very least, as scientific people ourselves, we should abide by the scientific principle of significant digits, out of an abundance of caution with someone who is known, for years, to act in bad faith. To keep your figures semi-honest at least
so 0.04% CO2 – 0.04% Co2 = 0% CO2 change. That’s our new baseline, AFKTT – are you happy with where you brought things? Due to the distrust you have engendered? This is what must be done to keep you honest. Wake us up if your CO2 changes enter even ONE significant digit – ie if it goes up ONE HUNDREDTH OF ONE PERCENT.
As noted previously, the increase from 280 ppm to 420 ppm over 200 years is not ‘0% change’. It is a 50% change! And it doesn’t stop there. Next May atmospheric CO2 will be at least 425 ppm because industrial humans will have added another 30 billion tonnes of CO2 to the biosphere, and the oceans will be even hotter than they currently are, with dire consequences for life on Earth.
Alex Christoforou does regular YouTube updates on politics and the war in Ukraine etc. He usually includes a ‘Clown World’ segment which highlights the preposterous stances of western politicians and NATO leaders etc..
We have had numerous ‘Clown World’ postings from you, jb-jb over the past couple of years, but the latest have been the best, as you tell us that 420 and 418 are the same thing, that 420/280×100 is not 150% (by omission) and that the Earth is not overheating at the fastest rate in geological history as a consequence of surging atmospheric CO2.
Observer
Thank you for stating irrefutable scientific facts relating to the huge increase in CO2 (both in the atmosphere and the oceans) and the profound effect that elevated CO2 is having on the Earth’s thermal balance (amongst other things.).
Of course, we both know that jb-hb is completely immune to factual evidence and simply rants idiotic diatribes and made-up bullshit over and over again, as per what the compulsive liar jb-hb has posted on today’s thread:
He expects onlookers to believe that this could logically explain a variation in “increased CO2” claims ranging from 3.74% to 0.93% as applied to a one year change
Where does that 3.73% annual increase in atmopshric CO2 come from?
Well, we know where that ‘3.74% one year change’ comes from: jb-hb made it up.
Nowhere in any scientific literature or reporting is there a 3.74% annual increase in average atmospheric CO2. That would amount to 15 ppm!!!! annual increase based on the current 420 ppm
Just imagine 420 ppm; 435 ppm; 450 ppm; 465 ppm;480 ppm over 5 years.
We may well see such increases, i.e. 15 ppm annual increase in atmospheric CO2, in the near future, when positive feedbacks release humungous amounts of CO2 and CH4 from ‘time bombs’ of the rapidly destabilising permafrosts and sea floor clathrates, and when even larger areas of forest go up in smoke than is occurring currently.
But at this stage, the annual increase in average atmospheric CO2 is around 2.7 ppm, approximately four times what it was in the 1950s, with fluctuations relating to the absorption of CO2 by the oceans, as relating to precipitation and storm activity etc..
Awaiting the next round on no-science, no-evidence (anti-science, anti-evidence) made-up bullshit ranting from jb-hb.
By the way, jb-hb, we are not ‘onlookers’: we are both participants and victims. We are participants in that we contribute to the CO2-induced meltdown, and we are victims of the system imposed on us from above that demands the meltdown continue (accelerate).
So the meltdown will continue (accelerate), notwithstanding all the bollocks presented to us by the controllers about ‘carbon mitigation’, ‘net zero’ and other official lies relating to atmospheric CO2 ‘reduction’.
“There’s tonnes of evidence” that the building collapses of 9/11 were controlled demolitions.
And yet, here we are, 22 years later, and the ‘power that be’ are still able to prevent that evidence from reaching the bulk of the populace.
What makes ‘the powers that be’ task of keeping the lid on everything so much easer is that people do not want to know the truth, and many expend much energy fighting against it (c.f. jb-hb on CO2-induced planetary meltdown)
I assume that everyone at TAE have already figured out that Hunter is going to get pardoned before he gets to spend one nighr.in jail.
Same justice system for everyone (that’s connected)Of course.
When governments are run by crime syndicates -which they are- criminality is celebrated and rewarded. Indeed, it has been that way for centuries.
What distinguishes present times from previous times is that the primary energy systems are close to peak or have already peaked, the energy cost of recovering enrgy or resources is rising, environment is collapsing and Ponzi schemes that have worked so well in the past for those at the top of the power pyramid are close to the limit of expansion.
The general populace is, by and large, completely clueless.
CP tells us what he thinks of the chance of surviving what is underway, i.e. close to zero for most.
Interestingly, his viewership has increased from just over 1 million to 1.14 million over the past couple of years, i.e. about 40,000 more people are awake to CP-style preparation and commentary than 2 years ago.
Considering the population increase over that time, that amounts to a smaller percentage of awake people than before!
Just so jb-hb can have another fit of mathematical tomfoolery.
Today’s atmospheric CO2 numbers, reported by CO2.earth
Jul. 25, 2023 422.04 ppm
Jul. 25, 2022 418.67 ppm
1 Year Change 3.37 ppm (0.80%)No surprise at all. Yet another extraordinarily high increase on the year-ago value, as industrial humans burn through 100 million barrels of oil a day and an undetermined quantity of coal, forests, peat etc.
Uninhabitable planet in a few years?
‘Nobody cares.’
jb-hb
We are still waiting for you to ‘prove’ that the increase in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm to 420 ppm associated with the burning of fossil fuels over the past 200 years is not an increase of 50%.
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
Come on jb-hb! You really are not trying hard enough! Surely you can come up with some kind of distortion of the laws of mathematics to demonstrate that 420/280 is not 1.5.
While you are at it, I’m sure you can ‘prove’ that.CO2 does not absorb outbound energy in the IR and ‘prove’ that CO2 does not re-radiate energy in the IR back downwards, raising the temperature of the Earth -something which Tyndale demonstrated in 1859 and which solved the mathematical puzzle that had perplexed physicists and mathematicians in the early 1800s: why the Earth was substantially warmer than calculated using the laws of radiation and cooling. The ‘mystery substance’ [in the early 1800s] that kept the Earth warm in the past but is now superheating it at the fastest rate in geological history.
And I am sure, if you try just a bit harder, that you can ‘prove’ that the oceans are not at the highest average temperature since humans evolved.
And with a supreme effort you will be able to ‘prove’ that ice sheets are not melting, that communities are not being wiped out by flooding, and that all the heat records reported over the past few years are entirely fake.
And if you really try, I am sure you will be able to ‘prove’ that industrial humans are not adding around 40 billion tonnes of CO2 to the biosphere via the burning of fossil fuels.
Just repeating that ‘2+2=5’ does get a bit tedious.
I am reminded of the soldier marching in a column who shouts “Right, left, right, left,” while everyone else shouts “Left, right, left right,” and declares that everyone else is out of step!
Follow the money.
Plimer churns out climate nonsense that has been demonstrated to be completely wrong.
Who is paying him?
Why does TAE continually promote climate nonsense?
We do know that everyone ‘in the system’ -from the Biden crime cartel, to the City of London, to Wall Street, to the EU, to NATO, to Pliner- is a professional liar.
Do you realize you have made the same KIND of argument, your numbers change EVERY TIME?
jb-jb
If you were paying any attention at all, you’d notice that the dates change.
So, yes, the numbers do change. Always for the worse, of course. Unlike your worn-out arguments, which remain as idiotic as they were when first promoted in the late-1990s.
.
As it is, as noted frequently, you continue to ignore all the evidencefor example
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
the stupendous surge in CO2 from 280 ppm to 420 ppm in just 200 years (and accelerating)
You are proven wrong, stupendously wrong, over and over again.
Latest update on the CO2-induced meltdown:
Jul. 24, 2023 422.17 ppm (242 ppm above pre-industrial and 192ppm above the 800,000-year average)
How strange (not) that the unprecedented-in-human-history level of atmospheric CO2 corresponds with the highest ocean temperatures ever recorded in real time, the fastest meltdown of Greenland ever recorded in real time, the lowest Antarctic sea ice cover ever recorded, the worst forest fires ever recorded in North America and Europe, the worse heat waves on land masses ever recorded, and the worst Carribean coral bleaching ever etc.
And all this catastrophe is just the start: Just wait till atmospheric CO2 breaks through 430 ppm, as it most certainly will in around 3 years if we are lucky and less than three years if we are not.
As poiinted out yesterday, I report the facts.
jb-hb then attempts to disprove the facts by totally ignoring all the very inconvenient facts that actually relate to our current predicament, i,e the huge increase in atmospheric CO2 from 280ppm to 420 ppm, an increase of 50% in the blink of a geological eyelid, and goes on to expend a huge amount of time on mathematical tomfoolery that is utterly irrelevant.
Today’s inconvenient facts that jb-hb wants to ignore because he hates scientific analysis and is only concerned promoting bullshit:
Jul. 24, 2023 422.17 ppm
Jul. 23, 2022 418.43 ppm
1 Year Change 3.74 ppm (0.89%)We note that the difference is 3.74 ppm taken from one=day=different dates for cientific reasons (i.e. the reading for the day was unreliable).
Nevertheless, no matter how shrilly jb-hb ‘screams’, the picture is absolutely clear: the photosynthesis currently taking place (in combination with slow geological raock formatio processes) is not sufficient to cope with the humungous quantity of CO2 emmitted into the atmosphere by industrial humans: currently of the order of 40 billion tonnes per annum.
That 40 billion tonnes per annum of CO2 added to the biosphere is yet another inconvenient fat that jb-hb chooses to totally ignore in his idiotic narratives.
Fact that jb-hb chooses to ignore that we can be absolutely certain about:
1. Oceans will continue to absorb he greater portion of industrially generated CO2 and become even more acidic that they already are, further reducing the capacity of shellfish to construct shells. (not a word on that from jb-hb or aspnaz)
2. Photosynthesis will lower the atmospheric CO2 by a small amount over coming months, and then reduce (as trees lose their leaves and temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere fall (not a word about that from jb-hb or aspnaz)
3. The decline in atmospheric CO2 will reverse and start to climb again, reaching another record high somewhat higher than this year’s record high, of the order of 425 ppm, 145 ppm above the pre-industrial level. ( not a word about that from jb-hb or aspnaz)
Presumably, what we will be subjected to will be a further series of idiotic attempts by jb-hb to disprove what is clearly happening (and has been happening for decades) with no accompanying data or analysis. And presumably, yet more silly insults from both jb-hb and aspnaz at the 14-year-old schoolboy level as the world overheats to an ever-greater extent due to the massive overload in the atmosphere of both CO2 and CH4.
I guess all the forests of the world will have to burn to the ground and temperatures to regularly reach 45oC in numerous locations for people such as jb-hb and aspnaz to accept reality.
Especially for jb-hb and aspnaz:
‘Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate crisis, scientists show
Analysis makes it clear human-caused global heating is destroying lives with worse to come without sharp emissions cuts’
Pretty much everyone else knows already. They are the last of the diehards.
Not that there will be any voluntary ‘sharp emissions cuts’ because the banksters and corporations that run the show simply will not allow such things as ‘sharp emission cuts.
Infinite growth on a finite planet is their meme, whatever the cost.
Thankfully, most truthtellers do not fall for the bullshit churned out by the likes of jb-hb or aspnaz and stick with observed reality and facts..
Note that CP Nate is well aware we that we are in planetary meltdown, as well as political, economic and military meltdown.
“These people lie through their teeth.”
These people lie through their teeth applies to jb-hb and aspnaz, of course.
aspnaz write: I think that sums up AFKTT very nicely
Do you really think anyone cares what you think, aspnaz?
After all, you have repeatedly demonstrated scientific illiteracy of the highest order. And no one with credibility supports your outlandish argument.
As with jb-hb, fact do not matter in your mind, just idiotic ideology and insults.
Other disinformation and pure nastiness posted by jb-hb recently:
at 280ppm (0.028%) THE PLANTS DIE
All the plants dying is your IDEAL STATE for the earth to be in. Because you are in a death cult.
And yet the record clearly shows that atmospheric CO2 averaged 260ppm for the 800,000 years prior to industrialism and dipped as low as 180 ppm. And yet the plants didn’t die (well the ones not under ice sheets didn’t).
Plants are such ‘clever’ things, they evolve more stomata when atmospheric CO2 is low and fewer when CO2 is high.
It’s a very safe bet that anything jb-hb posts on the topic of atmospheric CO2 is absolute garbage, garbage that he has made up on the spur of the moment, garbage that has no scientific foundation whatsoever, just to promote his utterly distorted false narratives.
And what is more, the more he is proven wrong, the louder he ‘screams’ and uses capital letters and flings nasty insults…which are sure signs of a loser.
One might like to think that he would learn from his numerous mistakes. But just like so many others, he takes no notice of the facts and just doubles-down on the garbage.
And why he thinks ppm need to be expressed as % defies logic. No one in the scientific community expresses concentrations as %.
Nowt queer as folks.
By the way, the meltdown of Greenland ice is surely stupendous at the moment and may well exceed the highly irregular meltdown of 2012 (when a series of warm weather systems generated what was then an unprecedented meltdown). We won’t know for sure until September.
In the meantime, on the matter of the unprecedented meltdown so far, Jason Box (who has been researching for decades) has a new video:
Correction to previous comment:
jb-hb
You now reveal not only your gross ignorance of physics, chemistry, biology, ecology and geology but also of history, and anthropology.
jb-hb
You now reveal not only your gross ignorance of physics, chemistry, biology, ecology and geology but also of history, and anthropology. You also demonstrate your inability to understand elementary mathematics.
Don’t be nasty to the guy who wants humanity reduced to being naked in the jungle – a state of being no human has lived in,
jb-hb
You now reveal not only your gross ignorance of physics, chemistry, biology, ecology and geology but also of history, and anthropology. Basically a pompous idiot.
Darwin noted in his journal that the people who lived in Terra de Fuego were entirely naked and paddled/swan in water that Europeans found too cold in order to collect shellfish.
Numerous indigenous tribes of South America lived naked (or as close to naked as matters) for at least 20,000 years. And would have continued to do so for thousands more years had not ‘civilised’ humans, eager to extract mineral wealth or convert the jungle into monoculture plantations arrived and killed them -either directly or by removing their habitat.
There may still be a very few left, as indicated here
The global energy predicament clearly indicates that those who do not perish from starvation (as the industrial system collapses) and do not die from CO2-induced overheating will have to fend for themselves and will either manufacture clothes from local vegetable matter or animal skins or go naked, whichever is preferable at the time.
jb-hb
I assume, according to your mendacious, twisted ‘logic’, indeed very sick and illogical manipulative ‘logic’, that the increase in atmospheric CO2 from 280 ppm (pre-industrial) to the current level of approximately 420 ppm would not an increase of 140 ppm. I also assume that, according to your sick and twisted narrative, the percentage increase a percentage of the original would not be 140/280 times 100 = 50%
All I do is report the numbers posted regularly at CO2.earth that you don’t want to know about because you are so far up the arsehole of industrialism and commercialism and all the deceits associated with them you choose distortion and misrepresentation as weapons in ongoing your misinformation campaigns.
Today’s numbers:
Jul. 23, 2023 422.44 ppm
Jul. 23, 2022 418.43 ppm
1 Year Change 4.01 ppm (0.96%)You will note that if you divide 4.01 (the latest reported increase) by 418.43 (last year’s figure) you get 0.96%
That is, of course, a substantial understatement of the predicament humanity is in as a consequence of overuse of sequestered carbon in the form of fossil fuels.
A far better indicator is obtained by subtracting the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm from all post-industrial results for comparison.
Thus, when humanity got into high gear in the overconsumption of fossil fuels in the 1950s, the atmospheric CO2 level was around 315 ppm, just 35 ppm above the pre-industrial level. We can express that as 35/280 times 100 = 12.5%
Therefore, in the 1950s atmospheric CO2 was elevated by around 12.5%, which was not sufficient to overwhelm the combination of Milankovich Cycles and weathering of rocks etc that maintained relative thermal stability. (Bear in mind that most of the industrial CO2 emissions were ending up in the oceans then, as now).
Compare that with the current CO2 overload of 50% (420 ppm minus 280 ppm above).
We can have some ‘fun’ when we compare the extent of the worsening of the predicament by ‘greedy apes’ over the past 70 years..
Current CO2 overshoot is 50%. In the 1950s it was 12.5%
50/12.5 times 100 = 400%. Therefore, we can say we have managed to increase the worsening of the predicament since the 1950s by 400%.
But none of the above is truly representative of the magnitude of the predicament because the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm was already on the high side of the 800,000-year pattern,
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
which averaged 230 ppm and never exceeded 260 ppm for long until humans came along (with the 400,000-year trend downwards) and started modifying the geochemistry of the Earth via chopping down trees to build houses and temples and ships etc., started recovering metals from ores, and started decarbonising limestone to make mortar.
Thus, the scientific evidence indicates that over a period of approximately 20,000 years, pre-fossil-fuel societies may have raised the atmospheric CO2 level from around 260 ppm to around 280 ppm. That amounted to 1ppm per 1,000 years.
If you’d like to get a real measure of how rapidly industrial humans are fucking up everything, compare the rate of increase now (approximately 2.7 ppm per year) with the preindustrial rate (1 ppm per 1,000 years); that is 2,700 times as fast, which as a percentage is 270,000%
That is quite an achievement, to be fucking up the planet at a rate 270,000% faster than the Romans and other civilisations of that era did, since they managed to cause several ecological disasters. Mostly local, of course.
The ecological disaster associated with mass use of fossil fuels since around 1800 is global and is increasing by the second.
I know you are not the least bit interested in facts or proper analysis and simply inhabit this forum to blow your own idiotic trumpet of misinformation and distortion as loudly as you can. And, like several other that inhabit TAE, throw insults at anyone who does present data and analysis.
Therefore, I assume you will continue to bloviate the way others of your ilk do, as the CO2-induced overheating melts ice sheets, generates unprecedented heat waves and inundations, progressively destroys industrial societies and their food systems over the next decade or so (atmospheric CO2 of 460 ppm, twice the 800,000-year average is clearly in sight and may arrive superfast if, as expected, positive feedbacks self-reinforce and mutually reinforce to increase the rate of overheating), and progressively renders the Earth inhospitable to most extant life forms over the period 2030 to 2060.
Invisible and silent, so people think it can be ignored, and politicians and bureaucrats think it can be exploited for political purposes.
An unusually high annual difference today (normally around 2.7 ppm year on year, up substantially from the below 1 ppm year-on-year increase initially reported by Keling in the late 1950s.)
Jul. 22, 2023 422.64 ppm
Jul. 22, 2022 417.10 ppm
1 Year Change 5.54 ppm (1.33%)Since we are in a unique period on geological history of having desequestered a huge portion of the carbon that was sequestered naturally hundreds of millions of years ago and transferred into the atmosphere and ocean, references to events such as the overstated ‘medieval warming’ (when all that carbon was still underground) have no relevance whatsoever.
What matters is the set of conditions of present times, i.e. atmospheric CO2 around 140 ppm above the preindustrial level of 280 ppm and the accelerating meltdown that ensues from that highly elevated level (sufficient to overwhelm the natural processes that recycled CO2 in the past via rock formation).
https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
Overheated oceans and messed up Jet Streams (amongst many dire consequences of highly elevated CO2).
It is interesting that no amount of presentation of data or even the daily realities of life alters the unscientific opinions of some of the ideologues who post on TAE.
Thus, humanity is doomed, firstly via its addiction to fossil fuels and secondly via its refusal acknowledge the devastating effects that using enormous quantities of fossil fuels has. Additionally, there are the various scams initiated and operated by politicians and bureaucrats that are making all aspects of the predicament worse, in futile attempts to prop up disintegrating Ponzi schemes.
It is all playing out much as I suggested when I first began writing [published] books on the matter, when atmospheric CO2 was around 360 ppm, but a t a somewhat worse faster than I imagined 25 years ago. Back then I was not as aware as I am now of the totally corrupt and manipulated nature of the western political system; I believed there had to be some people in power who would respond sanely to irrefutable facts: Not so at all.
Burn Baby, Burn!
Indeed. But not just tanks. Forests and plantations too. And houses and electricity grids.
Periods of intense heat and combustion interspersed with period of intense rainfall, both being made worse by ‘the system’. (We have just experienced another of those extended rainfall periods but at a moderate rate that has caused surface flooding rather than washing away of infrastructure.)
How long before the insurance sector raises premiums to unaffordable levels or denies cover altogether across large swathes of suburbia and tips the balance of the already fragile housing sector? Not long, it seems, judging by the whispers now coming through reported by Michael Bordenaro and others..
Reported that UkoNazis used cluster shells on a group of journalists and injured/killed them.
Russia needs to work out tactics to deal with cluster munitions. Not easy. May decide to use such weapons against Ukraine/NATO on a grand scale.
Apparently both sides need to ramp up production of missiles and drones. A slow war of attrition. Or a sudden collapse?
WW1: 4 years.
WW2: 6 years (8 for Chinese)
Korean War: still no peace settlement, just a metastable ceasefire.
Vietnam War: around 20 years.
Afghanistan War: around 35 years counting from initial assaults in the 1980s.
That said, the energy supply, the western financial Ponzi scheme and the environment will not support another 5 years of current levels of insanity.
Butterfly bombs -used by Ukraine to attack civilians in the regions that rejected the neoNazi edicts of the Kiev regime- were first developed and used by the original Nazis, and were used against civilians then, as now.
History doesn’t repeat but it does rhyme.
I sure am tired of the antics of the evil sociopaths and psychopaths who ‘govern’ western nations on the basis of an endless stream of fabrications and outright lies. As are many others.
However, the bulk of the populace is yet to see the light.
Propaganda and censorship are very effective -which is why the evil sociopaths who rule the west are so keen on both. And when they fail, there are always government-controlled ‘security forces’ to fall back on, to carry out terror campaigns against civilian populations.
‘A better, brighter future’?
Sorry, the corporations and their bought-and-paid-for lackeys won’t allow it.
Meanwhile, the meltdown of the Greenland ice sheet continues to get ever more ‘interesting’, i.e. not only far above any previously recorded level of melting but increasing rather spectacularly.
Clearly NATO has sufficient stocks of obsolete equipment and sufficient manufacturing capacity to maintain military hostility towards Russia for several more months. And the utterly incompetent leadership of NATO is sufficiently deluded to think that pouring yet more obsolete or inferior equipment into the conflict will achieve some kind of success -other than huge profits for the weapons manufacturers and continued kick-backs to corrupt politicians and political institutions on the gravy train. There is a schoolboyish bravadery that is a product of gross ignorance and inexperience of actual major conflict; in none of the major NATO ‘interventions’ of the past 60 years did the adverasary have satellite imagery, instant radar detection, hypersonic missiles, long range ‘flamethrowers’ etc.
Andrei Martyanov has repeatedly stated that the conflict in Ukraine is the first real major test (actual full-spectrum war) for NATO in its entire existence, and NATO has been demonstrated to be totally outclassed in almost every respect.
That is not to say that NATO is incapable of inflicting damge: as A M has previously pointed out, if you are on the receiving end of a projectile fired from a seventeenth century firearm you will likely be severely injured or killed.
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I don’t have a private jet, the world will end in 5 years
I don’t have a private jet.
The world won’t end in five years. However, current economic-political arrangements and industrial society in general will end for most people in less than 5 years., partly as a consequence of wide-ranging overheating.
TWAWKI -the world as we knew it- ended quite a while ago, depending on which factor one measures.
If one measures sustainability -the only thing that actually matters- ‘the world ended’ around the year 1800 and it has been rapidly downhill from there for most life on this planet.
Pity you are so unconcerned about your own future or life in general.
More unsubstantiated nonsense -indeed utter bullshit which is totally contrary to observed data- from TAE when it comes to the role industrially generated CO2 plays in overheating the Earth currently witnessed.
The actual situation:
1. For most of the year photosynthesis is overwhelmed by emissions; for a few months of each year photosynthesis of each year exceeds anthropogenic CO2 emissions, but never on an annual basis does the uptake exceed the industrial emissions. Hence, on any given date, the atmospheric CO2 is higher than the same date the year before.
Jul. 19, 2023 421.41 ppm
Jul. 19, 2022 418.07 ppm
1 Year Change 3.34 ppm (0.80%)2. Most of the CO2 that is industrially generated is absorbed by the oceans and one of the results is an ever-declining pH, ever increasing acidification [by CO2] and ever worsening prospects for shell formation by shell-forming species.
3. The absorption of CO2 by the oceans is both temperature dependent and phase-distribution dependent. As the oceans warm -which they most certainly are- the absorption by oceans must be expected to decline.
4. We should also note that all of the overheated permafrost is releasing stupendous amounts of both CO2 and CH4 (with a warming potential of 86 times that of CO2 for time frames that matter).
5. The overheated oceans and overheated atmosphere have generated two previously unrecorded phenomena: disruption of the Jet Streams that leads to wild swings in temperature; atmospheric rivers that drench regions with unprecedented quantities of rain -as witnessed in numerous locations in recent months.
One of the most ominous atmospheric river systems has been well studied by Jason Fox and provides a dire warning to the world of where we are headed, as the Greenland ice sheet disappears.
https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
Of course, few people live on Greenland, so, for the moment ‘who cares?’ And the 7 metre rise in sea level that will accompany the meltdown is more than a decade away.
Much more interesting in the short term is the overheating of the Carribean, which is impacting sea life, and has the potential to generate humungous hurricane systems in the very near future.
“Way too hot, way too early.”
As for trees absorbing CO2 more than is released by humans, we need to note that vast areas of previously forested land now contain burned-down trees -the greatest quantity ever not only across Canada but also across much of Europe, including Greece.
All these catastrophes have been occurring during a ‘cool’ phase in the La Nina-El Nino cycle.
Give the ongoing CO2-induced overheating catastrophe another year or so, and give the ‘super El Nino’ currently predicted time to act, we must expect the denial-of-reality and false narratives promoted by TAE to be even harder to promote than they currently are.
Catastrophic meltdown is occurring all over the Earth, from the Arctic to Antartica, and yet TAE continues to present the utterly warped notion that there is nothing to see, and that it has happened before.
I guess the anti-science, anti-reality, anti-life narratives that TAE regularly churns out will begin to fade after another couple of years of rapidly worsening overheating mayhem.
Jul. 16, 2023 421.99 ppm
Jul. 16, 2022 418.29 ppm
1 Year Change 3.70 ppm (0.88%)To suggest that ‘we are in a CO2 famine’, when the atmospheric concentration is 420 ppm, 190 ppm above the 800,000-year average of 230 ppm, is absurd beyond belief. Present ecology has evolved for 230 to 280 ppm average.
Not only that, of course, but atmospheric CO2 is rising at around 2.7 ppm per annum, the fastest rate in geological history. With this accelerating CO2 catastrophe underway, we break through 450 ppm in less than a decade.
I guess heatwaves will be recoding of the order of 50oC as a regular part of life by then.
‘Never let the facts interfere with a good political-cultural argument.’
With all its climate bullshit, TAE continues to do a great disservice to humanity, promoting increased levels of suffering in the future.
Deceptive expectation (hope), infinite growth on a finite planet, and accelerating planetary meltdown:
The spectacular meltdown of Greenland ice continues (accelerates):
https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
Unsurprising with atmospheric CO2 around 420 ppm (versus 280 ppm pre-industrial) and atmospheric CH4 close to 1900 ppb (nearly three times the pre-industrial level).
Out of control Canadian forest fires will likely provide yet another positive feedback.
Primitive man believed the weather was determined by his good or bad actions. Today this belief takes the form of believing climate is determined by man, rather than by the Sun’s irregular orbit & activity: Milankovitch Cycles, Solar Inertial Motion, Solar Flares.
Only complete idiots and uninformed fools think the Earth’s average temperature is determined by the Sun’s irregular orbit.
Those with a bit of knowledge recognise that the average temperature of the Earth is primarily determined by irregularities in the Earth’s orbit and the concentration of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere -greenhouse gases in the atmosphere increasing at the fastest rate in all of geological history as a direct consequence of human actions.
Record temperatures -of oceans, of the lower atmosphere and on land-, record forest fires, record ice melts, record levels of atmospheric CO2 (within the timeframe of human existence), and truly astounding levels of denial of reality!
Whoops! There goes the Greenland ice sheet over the next decade or so.
PPS
The French government orchestrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior. How dare anyone peacefully protest the actions of the warmongers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
Apparently, nothing changes politically.
However, the Empire of Lies is not invulnerable to the laws mathematics, physics, chemistry and ecology etc., and is now paying the price for centuries of deceit, manipulation and exploitation.
The European ‘garden’ has been in decay for decades. But now parts of it are on fire as well as enduring rapid financial-economic-social-environmental decay.
This dismal scenario is ultimately the product of centuries of looting and manipulation by the liars and thieves at the top of the power-money pyramid.
A worthy rant on the current mess from George:
P.S. On Airstrip Five we are still in the slow decay and collapse phase, with the controllers making everything progressively worse by the minute, in futile efforts to prop up unsustainable financial-economic-political arrangements imposed from ‘above’.
‘We’re all saved! Global Warming is over! Food becomes abundant! So now that’s fixed, I expect AFKTT and others to quote it weekly, like they did when it was drought? Fair’s fair, right?‘
If you think ‘we’re all saved’ you really are more of a fuckwit than we previously thought.
Planetary Meltdown is currently only in tan preliminary phase: just wait till the Arctic Sea becomes ice-free. That catastrophic condition is unlikely to occur this year but is now inevitable in a geological blink of an eye.
The superheated waters of the Atlantic and around the North Pole, the record low Antarctic sea ice cover, the massive increases in both CO2 and CH4 in the atmosphere, the record-breaking temperatures on land and in the oceans all around the world etc., are clearly a serious omen for the future that you choose to ignore for political/commercial/ideological/ego reasons, Dr D.
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2023/06/arctic-sea-ice-under-threat-update-4.html
And on the matter of living arrangements in the US:
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2023/06/extreme-heat-stress.html
On the matter of the actual evidence for ultra-rapid meltdown you might try this:
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2023/06/arctic-sea-ice-under-threat-update-4.html
However, we do note that you are immune to actual scientific data and hang on to idiotic notion with a truly irrational tenacity which is a sure indication the reason is emotional.
Or maybe you are just a clown.
Anyway, keep bloviating, Dr D; it’s what you do best!
bloviating (present participle)
talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way:
“when so many people are bloviating, it’s easy to dismiss all discourse as chatter” · “you don’t come here to hear from a pompous guy bloviating about his own personal opinions”
Yes. keep bloviating, Dr D; it’s what you do best.
But don’t expect informed people to take your bloviations seriously.
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(dedicated to Afewknowthetruth)
Thanks, boco.
I’ve been a fan of Talking Heads for decades but cannot stand talking heads.
By the way, the waters of the Atlantic are superheated, the ice in the Artic region is super-thin, the ice around Antartica is at a record low, Canada is a semi-burned tinderbox, and Airstrip Five (NZ) is no longer a ‘safe haven’ for those hoping to escape the effects of planetary overheating brought on by the overuse of fossil fuels. The warmest May ever and the warmest first half of June ever.
Also, the economy and welfare systems have been driven into a ditch by the managers of NZ Inc. I guess the manager’ short-term fix will be to ship tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees here to prop things up for a few more months.
Propaganda, censorship and tyranny reign supreme, along with ignorance and stupidity.
P.S. The next round of drenching of the North Island is underway.
