Forum Replies Created
Great essay. I’ve often thought along similar lines, which I have come to express thusly:
Every time we build something, we destroy something else to do so.
Capitalism is ultimately based on consumption and there is an inherent need to stimulate ever more consumption, as capitalism must expand, else it implodes as the profits can no longer pay for the cost of capital.
As Marx pointed out, capitalism also results in competition between capitalists, resulting in a steady stream of inventions and improvements in products and production as each capitalist enterprise strives to gain market share. And, capitalism naturally tends toward monopolies, as the winners force weaker participants out of the market.
Most people now live their lives in the confines of cities and as a result, much of the destruction is hidden from the consumer, so they will not easily reduce their impacts.
Ultimately, the long term value of all that consumption will exceed the short term value to the producer and consumer and then it will be game over.
Our use of fossil fuel energy is the foundation of the present world economy and as those fuels become ever more difficult to acquire, the energy return on energy invested will decline, thus more expensive, leading to a mad scramble to keep things going by switching to other sources of energy.
This situation will be exacerbated by the realization that climate change is a real problem, therefore the burning of carbon based fossil fuels must be curtailed even before they reach technical exhaustion. That will make the mad scramble even worse, which Craig Dilworth called a “Vicious Circle”, perhaps to the point that human civilization and population, as we have come to know it, will not survive the collapse.
chett, Your graphic is from John Christy’s UAH work. There are four groups which produce satellite “temperature” analysis and Christy’s work has the least trend. There have been many problems with the satellite data and it’s not clear to me that they have all been resolved.
Besides, the climate model results do not adequately represent the impacts of aerosols, especially the sulfate aerosols from burning coal. There’s been a large increase in coal power generation in China and India, which has added large continuing sulfate emissions which may have cooled things a bit of late. I expect that China and India will need to reduce those emissions because of the health effects on their populations, after the smog levels in their cities have repeatedly turned day into night. When this change happens, the masking of AGW will vanish and we will experience the full impact of AGW.
Nassim, glad to see that you are still spreading denialist disinformation. Your two links are to Tony Watts site, the first giving sea-ice data without accurate commentary. The last graph on the first link is for extent, about which Watts wrote: “Extent remains “a bit below normal”. Even a student with a basic education in statistics understands the meaning of “mean +/- 2 stddev”, which is the grey area of the curve. That the extent is outside the 2 sigma boundary, perhaps exceeding 3 sigma, represents a major reduction compared to the base period of 1981-2000.
The facts are that Arctic sea-ice continues to exhibit a significant loss in area. Too bad that Watts can’t figure that out.
Here’s an interesting piece from the NYT for all those old Oil Drum folks out there:
Nassim misses the point, as usual. It’s winter in Australia. It gets cold in winter. And, from the article, here’s the real proble
…”This generally doesn’t happen every winter, just when we get bad frost like over the weekend.””
Mr Edwards said quality solar panels with a glycol antifreeze system were generally more durable than cheaper models favoured by builders.
I’ve got solar collectors on my house and I use glycol antifreeze. Last winter, temperatures dropped below 0 F (-18 C) in my area.
The articles above remind me of our many similar discussions on The Oil Drum. It took quite a bit of effort to break thru the “EROI” dollar mindset to get to actual physics and geology. Mo matter how much money one has, it’s impossible to put more oil back into the ground and the ERoEI problem will become evident as Peak Oil production. Politicians, economists, bankers and CEO’s may say what they will, but they can’t legislate the laws of Nature.
Which gives the link from Diogenes Shrugged added import, as her complaints about Agenda 21 are just another disinformation effort. Lord Monckton knows little about the science of Global Warming, even as he pontificates endlessly on the subject. Monckton’s latest distortion involves the claim that a simple model shows there’s no possible problem from warming, but his model is pure junk science.
Nassim, I see you are a fan of the “NoTricksZone”, a proven anti-science disinformation site. Kenneth Richard (and Breitbart) clearly have no interest in the truth. Your re-posting of Richard’s BS destroys your credibility.
As for the Antarctic, please recall that there is now an “Ozone Hole” which appears during the Austral Spring due to CFC’s humans have dumped into the atmosphere. Ozone is another greenhouse gas, so one might expect that the Antarctic would be somewhat colder with increased sea-ice as a result. As the Ozone Hole appears to be healing as the CFC’s are declining, the maximum sea-ice extent also appears to be exhibiting a decline. Then too, in a warmer world, the atmosphere can hold more water vapor, thus precipitation would be expected to increase as a result.
Nassim, your post about the U of Manitoba study was featured in a Breitbart piece written by James Delingpole, which is where I suppose you picked up the reference. , HERE’s the original story. The study was set for Hudson Bay, a relatively small area and the access via the Labrador Sea.
The other areas of Arctic sea-ice are experiencing less multi year sea-ice and the present extent measurement is outside the 2 sigma range over the period since 1980. The important variable is the seasonal minimum extent (not area) in the Arctic and this year, the data is tracking neat that from 2012, the year which set the record low extent. Here’s a great animation of the data which shows what’s happening in the Arctic thru 2007 Notice the steady decline in multi-year sea-ice, which has continued in the years since 2007…
Here’s a commentary from today’s WaPo:
The author suggests a direct link between trade and national savings using classical economics, ignoring the fact that the banking system provides much of the new money added to the economic system thru loans. After reading that piece, it occurred to me that Steve Keen would have quite a bit to say in reply…
Bannon’s thinking appears to have been heavily influenced by Neil Howe’s hypothesis that history exhibits a series of repeated patterns. Bannon’s documentary “Generation Zero” used this hypothesis as it’s story line and Howe was one of those who was “interviewed”. I watched the thing (1 and a half hours worth) and came away feeling that the movie was actually a cleverly crafted bit of propaganda. As I was born at the end of WW II, i experienced much of the Baby Boom generation of the 50’s and 60’s which was the focus of one of the “turnings” mentioned in the movie. But, was left with the feeling that there was much left out of the presentation, for example, the Cold War hysteria in which we were continually reminded that nuclear war was just around the corner, even as we enjoyed the post WW II boom years.
The movie got many parts of the time line wrong and did not mention the “loss” of China, Korea or the Cuban Missile Crisis. Then too, there was an attempt to claim that the antiwar protests and the Woodstock Sex/Drugs/Rock and Roll culture were examples of a me-first youth culture, whereas it became clear there was no connection between what became a massive war in Vietman and the security of the US. There were similar disconnects between the financial mess of the 2000’s and events, such as the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in a bill pushed thru by Republican Phil Gramm.
The Republicans in the movie, like Newt Gingrich, obviously didn’t want to tell people that the meltdown in 2008 was in large part all their fault. The release date (February 5, 2010) was just at the beginning of the 2010 mid-term election cycle, the result of which was a big gain for the Republicans. The movie was released by Citizens United, the same crew that filed the suit which killed campaign limits by corporations, who are now considered to be “people”. One wonders whether all the high finance people now working in Trump’s administration would agree that the financial system needs overhaul with stronger oversight, which the movie suggests is necessary…
Lest we forget what’s ahead:
Nassim: Yes, the Denialist Camp won the last election. Yes people “connected on a daily basis to the weather – farmers, seamen, the military, hunters, policemen, firemen etc” see weather in their lives, not climate. And “killing the messenger” is an age old political tactic, one which only delays the arrival of TRUTH on the stage. We are less than 2 months from the yearly maximum in Arctic sea-ice coverage and right now, the data appears headed toward another record minimum extent. The scientific evidence clearly shows that the Arctic is experiencing remarkable warmth. The denialist crew continues to point to local data, ignoring the facts of Arctic warming and the ongoing decline in old sea-ice. The sea-ice acts as a giant thermometer, averaging the daily temperatures into a yearly sum over an area larger than the US lower 48. The loss of sea-ice is perhaps the best indicator of climate change, yet the local folks in the US have no clue, since it doesn’t appear on their weather maps or satellite photos.
John Day: An interesting strategic analysis. Having worked in 4 Presidential campaigns, the last in 1992, I’ve followed recent events with considerable interest. Also, as I have been doing some “remedial reading” of Marx, I find the situation not unlike that described by Marx in mid-19th century Europe. Then, the new spread of machinery resulted in vastly increased production per worker, not unlike the impact of the PC computer and emerging communication revolutions we now enjoy. The “middle class” which grew in the 20th century gave the average unskilled workers exceptional opportunities to accumulate real wealth, both in the form of real estate and machinery like cars, boats and tools.
But, as the AI revolution continues, the average worker now faces loss of job opportunities and income as employment shifts to other nations with lower pay scales and less regulation on employers. The US auto centered / suburban culture depends on cheap fuel, which is becoming less likely to be seen going forward. If people shift toward self driving vehicles rented for short periods, they won’t need to purchase their own cars or trucks, which will cut the number of vehicles manufactured, resulting in even fewer jobs. In the resulting turmoil, the old media models (which are already failing as the dominant channels providing information), are being eclipsed by the cable and internet sources of alternative information. The unified cultural knowledge base previously nurtured by the old media model is being inundated by “alternative facts” fabricated and spread widely by the new technologies such as internet blogs and chat channels, Facebook and Twitter. If Trump can’t deliver on his basic promise to bring high paying jobs back to the US (which would appear unlikely), those same media channels will light up with condemnation and Trump’s effective tenure may be rather short…
Nassim: Nice segway onto a completely different topic. Here’s a bit of thought about your first post. There were only 32 proxies out of the 91 available back to 1 CE and the authors note that only half were useful. From the paper, we find that many of the 91 proxies listed only give data for summer months, not annual temperatures. More interestingly, the paper presents graphs of the 32 proxies (Figure 3), few of which show the pronounced “bump” around 1000 CE. It’s curious that those individual plots don’t show that warm bump, while the combined graphs do. Others have tested their results by selectively removing a series to see what the impact of an individual series might be. Then to, there are only 16 proxies in your final graph. I think one must not conclude that the results are solid proof of a warm MWP.
Nassim, your “New paper” graph came from a Watts Up With That post from back in 2012. The paper presents data from 91 sites located in the extra tropical Northern Hemisphere, most of which lie poleward of 40 N, except from some in SE Asia. It’s well known that the high latitudes of the NH experience more variability than the full globe, indeed, your post a few blogs back linking to a comparison of Hansen 1981 with the most recent full NH data showed exactly that. As I pointed out in a comment, the tropics (below 23.5 latitude) represent about 40 percent of the area of the globe (and hemisphere), so leaving these areas outout, as the blog author did, distorts the interpretation of the data.
Your graph is even worse, as the sites appear to be almost all land based, leaving the vast area of the Pacific and Equatorial Atlantic out of the compilation. Further more, high latitudes sites are heavily impacted by the effects of volcanic eruptions and several over the period are evident in your graph at 535, 1259, 1452, 1600 and 1815 to list a few. Sorry, your “new paper” isn’t the solid proof, IMHO, though it was popular on the denialist blogs back in 2012
One may not agree with the WaPo on some issues, however, our present predicament in the USA is the result of our President’s lack of understanding of the word TRUTH, as described in THIS WaPo OP-ED. Others have also made similar comments about the man. After 1 week as President, Trump appears to be a pathological liar, perhaps a symptom of a real sociopath. And now he has his finger on the button, thus threatening all humanity if we don’t follow along with his whims and magical thinking.
“Victoria Nuland, who had been the top diplomat in charge of U.S. policy in Europe and Eurasia, resigned ahead of the inauguration. ”
Nassim, I have used the word “denialist” the same way one might use the word “communist”, that is, to refer to a group of people who share a similar mind set and who are involved in activities which are intended to actively overthrow the established thinking. Both groups share characteristics, such as, dismissing other world views and selecting only information which supports their world view. Your reference to ice breakers is one such example, as it’s just an example of a short term weather event. What about the long term records showing a decline in sea-ice at the end of the melt season in recent decades? The denialist don’t want to talk about that one, do they?
That other link of yours is just another example. Comparing the state of scientific understanding in 1981 with today’s knowledge is silly, we’ve obviously learned quite a bit more since then. In your link, the first two graphs have different scales, which makes the earlier one appear to have a big warming around 1940, which indeed also appears in the later one if the scales were the same. Are you still using an IBM PX/XT by chance? I seriously doubt it. The decline in sea-ice is flaming obvious to anyone who takes a look at it…
Nassim, the “satellite temperature” data is the result of a theoretical model. which is applied to the measurements from orbit. There are several areas which are still in contention and the denialist have a habit of picking the one with the lowest trend, since that suits their goal of misinforming the public. The satellites don’t measure surface temperature directly and there are several difficulties which have been found, including one by me just published.
Your linked Climate Depot blog post is just one of numerous such posts by Marc Morano, who previously worked as Sen Inhoffe’s anti-science attack dog after working for that noted scientific mind, Rush Limbaugh. Morano has no scientific background, yet he repeatedly claims to know for sure that the climate scientists are liars. I think it’s Morano who twists the truth, doing exactly what he claims the scientists are doing. I’m surprised he isn’t working for Trump (or is he?).
Does THIS describe the impending Trump/Putin alliance as the corporate world takes over the US Government?
Dylan grew up during the ’50’s, when school kids (like me) were taught to “Duck and Cover” under our school desks, in the event of a nuclear attack. Not that that would have done any good. Anyway, that “Hard Rain” in Dylan’s song was (obviously) nuclear fall out. We’ve been lucky since then, not much fallout since then, just some sprinkles here and there from open air testing. Most of us from those days still have some some radioactive bits buried within us.
I always liked his “Talkin World War III Blues”. It was so positive, the lyricist somehow survived, compared to what would be left after a thermonuclear hydrogen blast. Dylan’s latest message is: It ain’t over yet especially with a guy like Trump who naively asks: “Why can’t we use nukes?”…
I’ve been part of the environmental “movement” since I found in the 1960’s that I could not function in the northern California air pollution of the day. I met Herman Daily back in ’77 and followed him as he started The International Society for Ecological Economics. This blog presents the situation much the same way as I see things, but fails to mention the population problem.
As a species, we, like all other species, have the capacity to procreate faster than our population dies. Our intelligence has allowed us to survive much easier than previously and thus our national population(s) are growing exponentially. To survive, each of us must gather energy from our surroundings, that is, we must consume that energy, all of which originates as solar energy captured by plants and delivered to us via agricultural methods and processing and distribution networks. As we have moved to densely populated cities looking for survival as agriculture has become mechanized, most of us can no longer be directly engaged in the production of the basic materials which we all use, so we become engaged in “work”, that is, some activity which we can trade for that which we need/want. The trading is facilitated by our financial systems, that is, money.
Most of us have become consumers in a very real sense, ie, we are consuming the Earth. But, living in cities, we don’t directly sense the effects of our consumption, instead living in manmade environments which are isolated from nature. It’s no wonder that the natural world is declining and species are disappearing as the habitats into which each species has evolved are destroyed by mankind’s “economic development”. Along the way, human populations continue to grow, even as many people chose to move away from decimated areas and strife associated with it. The migrants appearing in southern Europe and along the US/Mexico border are just symptoms of the larger problem. We are taking too much from the natural world, with many billions living in abject poverty, people who have no choice but to continue the destruction.
McPherson is just one of many who see the situation as nearly hopeless. Another is Craig Dilworth, who wrote “Too Smart for Own Good”, which presents his world view in great (though repetitious) detail, giving about 1700 references. Not to forget recent events, which have convinced me that population crash is inevitable because we can’t stop the train we are riding.
Steve Keen’s “interview” with Michael Hudson sure covers a lot of ground. I found this aside of interest:
“..it was on Erasmus Peshine Smith, the leading American economist of the 19th century who developed the energy theory of GDP. He thought product was ultimately reducible to energy.
Reminds me of a more recent American, ecologist Howard T. Odum, who had the same idea. He wrote several books, including “The Energy Basis of Man and Nature” and “Environment, Power and Society”. His approach also included dynamical systems theory, rather like Jay Forrester, (recently passed) and who was a guiding light in the “Limits to Growth” study. HERE are some more recent thoughts for the curious.
Chris Hedges: <b>Waiting for the Barbarians </b>
We await the crisis. It could be economic. It could be a terrorist attack within the United States. It could be widespread devastation caused by global warming. It could be nationwide unrest as the death spiral of the American empire intensifies. It could be another defeat in our endless and futile wars. The crisis is coming. And when it arrives it will be seized upon by the corporate state, nominally led by a clueless real estate developer, to impose martial law and formalize the end of American democracy.
The last constraints will be removed by a crisis. The crisis will be used to create a climate of fear. The pretense of democracy will end.
We in the Western World are so good at dancing around the Truth. People living for many generations on islands learn a basic truth. Populations can not continue to grow without meeting limits. The results have always been various means to limit population to that which can be supported by the available resources. Humanity lives on an island called Eearth, in the sense that all our resources are ultimately limited and, sooner or later, both locally and on a global scale, population growth must cease. That the prevailing thinking from our political and economic “leaders” refuse to admit this basic truth can only result in population growing beyond sustainable levels, leading to the most brutal paths to lower levels.
We’ve been able to get by thanks to our exploitation of cheap fossils fuels, but the time will come when we can no longer continue to ignore reality. In so many ways, the Trump campaign represents an appeal to those who do not understand or accept these truths, as the voters cast their ballots to continue Business as Usual. The anti-abortion Fundamentalist zealots, the pro-growth CEI/Koch brothers and the anti-EPA crowd have won a hollow victory and we can only hope the Trumpetistas will burnout quickly before the wrong button is pushed and mega deaths result…
It appears that Director Comey may not be much of a hero after all:
Here’s why Trump must not be elected President:
Trump and the Nuclear Keys
He’s a man who reportedly thinks that using nuclear weapons is a reasonable alternative to a crisis. His clear lack of understanding of the realities of nuclear weapons could place the US on a course toward the annihilation of the human race.
We see that “children in sub-Saharan Africa are living in extreme poverty”, but there’s no mention of the high rates of population growth in the region. Then, there’s the article about those migrants trying to cross the Mediterranean from Libya to Italy, but most of those folks are from sub_Saharan Africa. Unchecked population growth will eventually push humanity beyond the capacity of the Earth to feed them all. As the fossil fuels run out, or must be left in the ground due to CO2’s impacts on climate, there would appear to be a proverbial cliff ahead, as in, population overshoot and collapse. The US won’t be immune.
Of course, the media in the US can’t speak to the problem, given our natural aversion to such negative thinking and our large fraction of fundamentalist believers that think more babies are great. The US political class can’t address the situation either, since gloom-and-doom doesn’t attract votes. But, Syria is already in the midst of a destructive spiral, which was partially the result of a massive drought. There will be others, as populations (think Haiti), hit whatever combination of real Limits to Growth appear before them…
Nassim wrote: How about some data?
Here’s an example of a rabid commentary. While I understand her distress, having experienced unemployment thru most of my career years, I think her rejection of the scientific facts is a classic example of denial. Besides, who is to say “her” post is genuine, as it contains no identifying information.
I take it you didn’t look at the post from the Weather Underground, which points to the surface data from NOAA. There’s lots more data, especially Arctic data, such as declining sea-ice extent and record high temperatures in Alaska. It’s no surprise that the scientists who have studied the AGW problem are seriously worried.
As a one time Oil Drum “greenie”, I was not surprised to find that Euan is still seriously anti-AGW. At the time the Oil Drum shutdown, I didn’t understand that it was done because of the repeated concerns voiced by some (me?) about AGW and Climate Change. There are still people who post on Euan’s web site who are rabidly opposed to doing anything about our CO2 emissions, even though the science has become even more solid in the intervening years.
A little over 2 weeks ago,a letter regarding AGW and Climate Change was sent to every member of the US Congress. The letter was signed by 31 major US scientific organizations. Do you think the RNC members in Congress listened? Well, I notified my Congress critter, who happened to also be a Co-chair of the GOP Convention Platform Committee, which was approved yesterday. Read it and Weep (see p17-22). Naturally, those folks are even more adamant that they aren’t going to do anything except promote the increased use of fossil fuels, even as the latest weather reports indicate that June was the warmest June on record, adding to a string of 13 record monthly readings.
I hope these RNC geniuses all end up holding bonds when interest rates start to rise. As David Stockman and others have pointed out, bonds and stocks are both in bubble territory, which is likely to end badly. Both could go down the tubes as the debt bubble implodes.
Here’s a story from today’s WaPo:
China’s debt bubble is getting only more dangerous
Looks like folks in Washington (and NYC) may be getting the message…
The MSM appears to be getting the message about oil debt:
Stung by Low Oil Prices, Companies Face a Reckoning on Debts by CLIFFORD KRAUSS and MICHAEL CORKERY
A good article from the NYT, but it looks like it’s a little late go fix things…
Dr D., you’ve surely put together a great batch of denialist talking points. For example, the notion that the CO2 changes in the ice cores follows the temperature increase is entirely logical, as there weren’t any massive sources of CO2 at the time. The resulting lag between temperature and CO2 can be simply explained as a positive feedback WITHIN the Earth’s natural ecosystems. For you to claim this data proves there’s no global warming is to display a complete lack of understanding of the physics of the problem.
Then, you claim that the “the North Sea ice is normal”, which is technically true, since there’s no sea-ice in the North Sea at this time of the year. Big deal. But, the Arctic sea-ice has declined steadily and this year’s minimum is among the 4 lowest in the record. Then, you mention volcanoes and sunspots, both of which do not exhibit a long term trend in the recent record, while the global average temperature has steadily increased. Of course, you are cherry picking data, beginning with the 1997-98 El Nino year, which was rather warm. If you wait until next year, you might find that this year’s El Nino surpasses that of 1997-98. As for the Little Ice Age experienced in Northern Europe, there’s little evidence that it was a global event and it’s known that there’s natural variation in the Thermohaline Circulation in the Nordic Seas, which could be the cause of that local cooling, in addition to couple of rather large volcanic events during the period.
Then there’s this current event. Glad I don’t live in Mexico. I wonder how many more migrants will show up in the US after the storm plows thru…
The present EU migration crisis is surely just beginning. At the heart of the problem, but never mentioned in the media, is the fact of the continued out of control population growth in many “developing” nations. The collision between all those new peoples and their local environments is exposing the ultimate “Limits to Growth” problem. If these folks can’t find a way to survive locally, they will move to places which they are led to believe things will be better. And, in so doing, they will add the the environmental degradation problems in their new home lands.
Consider this report about migrants from the tiny nation, The Gambia, on the west coast of Africa. The most important point is found in one migrant’s story:
Susso could afford only two meals a day for his family. He knew he would have to pull his four sons out of school in their early teens, so they could work his small rice field or make money elsewhere. He shared his two-room home with 12 people, including his brother, nieces and nephews, a bedsheet hanging where the front door should be…
For each migrant who makes it to Europe, there are many sons (and daughters) waiting to make the same trek, following the siren’s call northward. And, its not just Europe which is seen as the Promised Land, the US can’t deal with the estimated 11 million already here from Mexico and Central America. Of course, the US may vote Mr. Trump into office and then we can send all those invaders (sorry, not a PC word) back to their breeding grounds. After we get that Great Wall build along our border(s) and shoot a few poor bastards who try to cross. That would look like Iron Curtain time all over again…:<(
The news from Greece is rather confused this morning. Consider this from AEP:
“Germany is at last bowing to pressure as a chorus of countries and key institutions demand debt relief for Greece, a shift that could break the five-month stalemate and avert a potentially disastrous rupture of monetary union at this Sunday’s last-ditch summit. ”
“As details of the new offer emerged, it appeared that Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras was capitulating to demands on harsh austerity terms that he urged his countrymen to reject in the referendum last Sunday, like tax increases and various measures to cut the costs of pensions.”
So, which side “won” the standoff?
What we are seeing here isn’t just a problem for Europe. Whether they are called “refugees”, “migrants” or “illegal immigrants”, the problem is the result of rapid population growth in the tropical regions of the Earth. Australia has boat people from Southeast Asia and the US has illegals from Mexico and Central America. The US already has perhaps 10 million illegals living within our borders and our political system can’t seem to deal with the problem, even after Reagan gave the last batch amnesty in the 1980’s. Rather obviously, they will keep coming as long as they have any hope of being admitted and the northern nations will be overrun by “invaders” (read: people) from these other lands. As we see in the US, there’s no easy solution, given the wide diversity of opinion in the so-called “democratic” governments. I fear that we already know what “The Final Solution” will be…
RE: Russia In A Spin As Its Putin Goes Missing (FT)
To which Ilargi replied: “He’s already ‘back’. Who starts this sort of thing?”
As the BBC article notes, the world will be watching the planned meeting between meeting between the Russian and Kyrgyz presidents tomorrow. If Putin doesn’t show up, things may get even more interesting…
With respect to the post about Brzezinski’s “The Grand Chessboard”, consider that he was the founding executive of The Trilateral Commission. That group was closely linked to The Council on Foreign Relations and many of the early members served with Jimmy Carter, who was also a member. But, the geopolitical games being played are not really new. For example, recall this historical example of competition among the European colonial powers of the 19th century:
Great Powers playing Great Power games…February 20, 2015 at 7:27 pm in reply to: Sucking Beer Out Of The Carpet: Nicole Foss At The Great Debate in Melbourne #19320
Great presentation by Nicole, whom I’ve followed since her time at The Oil Drum. It’s rather obvious that exponential growth on a finite planet based on the consumption of finite resources is a dead end as that path will surely hit the wall of reality at some point in time. When that will occur is the question we’ve debated for years, with Peak Oil being just one example of a hard limit.
But, thinking back to The Oil Drum days, I recently had a go around with Evan Means on his blog about his notions regarding Climate Change. Here’s a link to his post, NASA Satellite Climatology Data, with my replies in the comment section, starting HERE. I think Euan really doesn’t understand the problem, as he shows in this reply, in which he wrote:
“At high latitudes there is in fact no winter troposphere at all – I think that is because there is no winter CO2 greenhouse. The surface lies in the stratosphere. …”
Euan later posted several comments on RealClimate’s commentary about Booker’s piece in the Telegraph, Euan presenting his opinion of the adjustments made to the weather records to remove various sources of error before computing changes in global averages. Of interest to me was a comment he posted about the demise of The Oil Drum, in which he blames those of us who were concerned about Global Warming as the cause. But, if Euan is wrong now, he was wrong then and efforts to present the case on that venue died because of his errors. It’s little wonder that concerns about all of these future problems are being buried under an avalanche of disinformation, thus foreclosing any option to halt the continuation of business as usual…
Here’s a bit about the leader of the Truth in Texas Textbooks group which wants to re-write the presentation of climate change in school books:
Lt Col Roy White, TTT Chairman
Lt Col Roy White (ret) is a combat veteran fighter pilot who served honorably in the Air Force for 20 years as an instructor pilot in the A/OA-10, AT-38 and T-37. He retired in 1999 and is a commercial airline pilot with over 12,000 hours of accident free flying experience. Prior to being commissioned he was a public school teacher in NC and received a BS in Physical Education and Health from Appalachian State University in 1976. He has been a resident of Texas for over 34 years residing in Lago Vista, TX, Flower Mound, TX and lives now in Boerne, TX.
With all due respect to Mr. White, he has no apparent expertise in science, let alone the atmospheric sciences. He may be a great pilot, but that has nothing to do with the atmospheric sciences. He is rather like the TV weather men who seem to think they too can ignore the scientific theory and data which is the basis for concerns about global warming and climate change. From the article:
“If the coalition had its way, any reference to “global warming,” melting polar ice caps or rising sea levels would be excised from textbooks, or paired with dissenting views. ”
The religious fundamentalist in the US represent at least 25% of the public. Every finding by scientists which run counter to their literal interpretation of the Bible is a direct threat to their world view. Thus, they can not accept these scientific findings and somehow wall themselves off form the rest of society which does accept the scientific facts. Perhaps that’s the reason for the strong connection between the climate denial camp and the Fundamentalist with creationist beliefs. The resulting conflict won’t be easily resolved, as it’s nearly identical to the intellectual divide that which separates the Islamic State from the modern world…