TheTrivium4TW
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ashvin post=2341 wrote: What is clear to me is that we are not living in a literal Matrix, in which everyone’s reality is programmed from the beginning. At least, there is no group of human beings that can act as the programmers.
but the point still remains that some of the people mentioned in our discussions do, such as David Icke. Alex Jones is slightly better in this regard, but not by a whole lot.
Ash, I think your “black or white” thinking is causing some problems.
Again, nobody is arguing that everyone is programmed, “Matrix” style. I don’t even know why you brought that idea up. But many are claiming that there are programming mechanisms in place designed to manipulate people – including the people who are attempting to do the programming.
So, you are correct, there is no total “black” of programming, but nobody is wrong because nobody is arguing that. You miss the point that there is a gray area of “programming,” “control” and “manipulation” that is occurring in societies across the world. It isn’t 100%, but it is quite effective. So effective, in fact, it baffles me how it could possibly work. I’m still trying to reverse engineer it.
Propaganda, massive amounts of logical fallacies, a media controlled to where it hides the biting truth that humanity really needs to know… its all out there.
“And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods.”
~Aldous Huxley“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
― Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic EraEdward Bernays – Propaganda
https://archive.org/details/PorpagandaThe Ultimate Revolution – Aldous Huxley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEXs3RspWyUThe Century of Self
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rDNt7hsBeABy the way, you grossly misstate the positions of Alex Jones and David Icke. The ENTIRE reason they are out fighting and resisting these tyrants in the “infowar” is PRECISELY because they don’t think these tyrants have the kind of control you claim they say they have.
Now, one could argue it is all and act for cash – the problem with that is that a little research proves that view to be incorrect (i could go on and on and on and on and on – government/bankster drug running, Corzine criminal activity, JP Morgan criminal activity, Goldman Sachs criminal activity, banker coups, Federal Reserve Criminal activity, gun running to drug cartels that launder their cash to the mega banks, toxic food, toxic water sold as mother’s milk…
That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
~Aldous HuxleyJoeP post=2330 wrote: Peter O,
Enjoyed your post. Not sure, but I think the NWO meme is kinda unpopular at TAE.
NWO is just a name. Like Big Finance Capital. Or Den of Vipers. Or Money Power. It is all the same crowd.
Pick any name – but identify the criminals who are looting the nations for all they are worth, claiming the right to assassinate citizens with no evidence or oversight and to promote infanticide…
Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9113394/Killing-babies-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.htmlCalling them “late for lunch,” whatever, but get involved and resist these criminals before society is completely gutted by poverty and starvation so that they will grovel to lick the boots of these people with the weird name.
ashvin post=2328 wrote: Triv,
We are talking about completely different things now. You have a tendency to take my comments about very specific issues and shift them back to the general discussion that you want to have about debt dollar tyranny. I appreciate all of the links/info you post here, and I think it is helpful for others, but trust me when I say that none of it is new to me at all. I have watched all of Bill Still’s videos before, and I understand the various ways/examples how the debt-dollar system works and TPTB use it to control the media, academic institutions, government, etc.
RE and I were having a different discussion about the more finer points of conspiratorial narratives and meta-narratives, with the latter being ones which try to incorporate every major historical development in human civilization into a unified conspiratorial framework. They are basically trying to find the Theory of Everything when it comes to the evolution of human society. So I am not making a straw man argument in that discussion. Plenty of people out there argue those points all the time, and many of them are very influential in the “truther” movement.
Hi Ashvin, the main issue was that nobody credible claims the straw man you created and are, apparently, trying to light afire…
>>but I don’t agree that it has been the sole driver of major historical developments or that the conspirators have always maintained absolute control over the system as a whole.<< Nobody argues this. It doesn’t exist. Yet you build it up anyway, one piece of straw at a time. Why do you think people like me are in the fight, **with no help from TAE mind you**, to get GMO pesticide facsimile food labelled? Its a battle precisely because they don’t have complete control. But they have immense levels of control – they now claim the right to assassinate you or I with no evidence or oversight. They haven’t done so yet (you or I, who knows who they have assassinated in cold blood), but that doesn’t mean they won’t start it if enough people continue to embrace the jellyfish within. What kind of control does “the system” exert on you to keep you from resisting the tyranny of pesticide facsimile food? Let’s reverse engineer it because I really want to understand it so those of us who care can try and counteract the control mechanism.
Candace post=2336 wrote: “Hi Ash,
The next step is to understand that “systems” have “architects.”
WHO designed the systems of control? WHO perpetuates them and keeps them SECRET from the populace?”
Triv it sounds like you are arguing for the “Intellegent Design” theory of human social structures and society and it sounds like Ash is arguing for the “Theory of Evolution” theory of human social structures.
From that perspective it seems unlikely that anyone who sees the societies we have now as something that has evolved (with the occasional attempts by members of the species to influence the direction of that evolution) is something that was wholly designed by members of our species.
The “architects” or “elites” might attempt to “select” for a particular trait, that doesn’t mean they wrote the DNA. The “traits” they have “selected” may have ascendence in one environment, but that doesn’t mean that the same trait won’t bite them in the ass if their environment changes. Being a sociopath might be useful in a world that has abundant resources and a relatively healthy ocean, land and air that allowed the growth of large disconnected populations, but in a time of scarcity and contraction, being untrustworthy may turn out to be a liability. The evidence that the trait might not ultimately succeed may only be apparent a few generations from now.
That’s my two cents anyway.
Candace
Hi Candace, interesting insight regarding ID and evolution.
As for the rest, when my 3 year old child asked me, while watching a Star Wars scene with the Emperor and Darth Vader going over their evil plans, “[D]o bad people know that other bad people are bad?”
I’m not so sure they do.
By the way, I don’t believe these criminals will win in the end. I believe good wins in the end.
But I do believe they will rain holy h*ll on the planet and its people before they lose – once and for all.
ashvin post=2309 wrote: but I don’t agree that it has been the sole driver of major historical developments or that the conspirators have always maintained absolute control over the system as a whole.
Hi Ash,
I view that as a straw man argument.
Nobody I have ever heard has argued that point.
Perhaps some bankster / government funded operative has expressed those views to discredit real people trying to get to the real truth, but I haven’t heard of them.
PS – You should watch Teh Secret of Oz. It details the all out brawl for control of America’s monetary system between politicians who represent the people and the international financial cartel.
ashvin post=2301 wrote:
Clearly, the economics dictate that privately financed media is controlled.
Clearly, the fruits of the controlled media are there – get out of line and get fired. Every news anchor sees this and acts accordingly.
Triv,
You are really making my argument for me in your last post. It has been my assertion that a significant portion of the coerced thoughts/behavior we have seen over the years can be attributed to the system, and it is a system that dates back farther than anything that can be called “debt-dollar tyranny”. It is the difference between saying “Amy Goodman is someone who is 100% intentionally misdirecting her viewers because she is a member of a coordinated conspiracy” and saying “there is a decent chance that Amy Goodman is unable/unwilling to embrace/express the truth, even though she believes otherwise”. Sometimes the distinction is irrelevant and sometimes it is very important – but, regardless, there is a big distinction.
Hi Ash,
The next step is to understand that “systems” have “architects.”
WHO designed the systems of control? WHO perpetuates them and keeps them SECRET from the populace?
It’s like corporations. They are painted as evil. The problem is that “corporations” don’t do the evil, PEOPLE DO.
WHO created the corporate “profit making psychopath” model? I didn’t. You didn’t. Nobody I know did. BUT SOME GROUP OF PEOPLE DID.
Covertly Conspiring to create a system used to control people for one’s benefit is a conspiracy by definition.
“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
― Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic EraThey tell you about the conspiracy to promote magnetic personalities (politics, media) to “manipulate” and “control.”
They think we are so out of touch, they come right out and publicly express their agenda to manipulate and control us and the method used.
While I’m not an insider, so I can’t have actual knowledge of the mechanism of control used, I can make reasonable conclusions based on reasonable reverse engineering.
1. She is given free range until a topic is determine tabo. Her boss makes that call. Have you heard about the CIA infiltrating the media? Amy is an employee, her employer is funded by Big Fianance Capital cash, so the employer will ensure that the employee doesn’t offend Big Finance Capital.
2. She knows what would offend Big Finance Capital and won’t touch it as she reationalizes withholding the information in order to collect her paycheck and the SWAG associated with the media “good life.”The point is that the media is all a “for profit” show and they don’t hire people to upend their criminal agendas.
Revealed – the corporate network that runs the world
One thing won’t chime with some of the protesters’ claims: the super-entity is unlikely to be the intentional result of a conspiracy to rule the world. “Such structures are common in nature,” says Sugihara.
No grammar (data) or logic presented… just a wishy washy claim.
Who lends these mega corporations their cash?
Are their executives part of Bilderberg or CFR or Bohemian Grove?
Are they part of the “Big Club” that the rest of us aren’t in?
It is really simple – if Ash started sucking out 10% of the economy every year in place of the Debt Dollar Tyrants, Ash’s agenda would become the most important agenda in the nation.
“Whomsoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.”
― James Garfield“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence
“The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.”
Lord Actonashvin post=2313 wrote: [quote=RE]OK, I understand that. But what do you think about episodes such as the 19th century socialist revolutions in Europe, or the 20th century momentum of labor movements in the West, or other similar things? Would you say that all of these significant events in human socioeconomic relations were orchestrated by the multi-generational elites, all part of their master plan for eventual global dominance? That’s what I mean by a lack of “absolute control” over the system as a whole. The system is not solely defined by the generalized paradigm of wealth/power concentration among an elite, coordinated group of people and their descendants, but rather is comprised of many different realities simultaneously existing and evolving for millions and now billions of people, some of which are rather detached from that general paradigm.
Hi Ash, take a systems perspective. These Big Finance Capital criminals set up systems that enable to exert tremendous influence and control over entire societies.
Note the accusations made by Luke Rudkowski
911 Criminal Jay Rockefeller exposed by We Are Change NY & LA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hjrc91pFH4The relevant portion starts at 2:25.
Note Jay Rockefeller’s response…
The concept isn’t that this small group of criminals has mind control powers over everyone and they micro control people.
Rather, it is that they set up systems, like Debt Dollar Tyranny with an economic veneer, which enable them to manipulate the cost / benefit of individual actors within society to work towards their agenda.
Let me make this real simple. If someone is paying $1,000,000 to get GMO pesticide facsimile “food” approved with no long term health studies and someone is paying $8.00 hour at the local diner, how many people would choose the $1,000,000 option?
They only need one.
And they got their one. Michael Taylor, a former Monsanto attorney, was put over the FDA, gave Big Finance Capital everything they wanted and then went on to become a Monsanto VP.
The revolving door is all about conspiracy to control government – and it doesn’t take that many people and it is all about finding the price at which people stop caring about their actions. Or, frankly, some people like to hurt other people they think are lesser than themselves.
Debt Dollar Tyranny, along with its fake free market veneer, allows the wealthy, politically connected architects of these fraudulent systems to use their wealth to pressure society to go along with their agenda.
It isn’t that they have total control, though. If they did, we’d already be calling them lord and master.
It is an epic battle between the criminals a the top and the informed populace that actively resists this “scientific dictatorship” level of tyranny and the apathetic, programmed masses who have no idea they are the next course for the predators sitting at the table.
I get that it is scary. I get that it sounds crazy. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t real.
It is very real.
And their current method of control is to consolidate as much power as possible in their Presidential puppet… They control him by vetting and financing all candidates and the CIA, NSA is there to monitor their puppet and make sure he stays in line.
The Zapruder film works wonders as well.
You also have to look at who financed what. It is rare that an overwhelmingly financed movement isn’t the dominant movement of an era.
Who can out finance everyone else? Jackson called them the “Den of Vipers.” Lincoln called them the “money power.”
They exist, they are real and their solution to poverty is to literally kill off the poor people – it is call eugenics.
Now the criminals are promoting infantacide through their “medical ethicists.”
Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9113394/Killing-babies-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.htmlNote the timing of this Nazi style horror show…
Now Desperate Greek Parents Are Giving Up Their Children
https://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-01-10/europe/30610850_1_greek-families-economic-crisis-guardianLooks to me like the eugenicists running these governments want some blood from children.
Remember, we have to kill off granny, too – or you might be out of a job and homeless…
Bill Gates Talks about Death Panels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F_WEdJuNLwThey know full well that nutrition and hormonal balanced eating is key to health, but health doesn’t kill people off an over populated planet and doesn’t maximize profits for Big Finance Capital’s pharma division… so the system uses their wealth and influence to subsidize high glycemic, high inflammation producing GMO “foods” (corn and Omega 6 vegetable oil) and to literally wage war against nutrition by throwing raw milk producers into jail and declaring them to be terrorists and labeling vitamins and minerals as toxins.
https://www.naturalnews.com/024128_CODEX_food_health.html
All the while Pharma kills off 106,000 people a year with FDS approved drugs and it isn’t even covered in the media and nobody makes a stink about it.
That’s a 9/11 death toll ever 11 DAYS!
It’s all about ECONOMIC INCENTIVES.
The ECONOMIC INCENTIVES are set up to jail and accuse a raw milk producer of being a terrorist and the ECONOMIC INCENTIVES are set up to allow Big Finance Capital’s Pharma division TO WAGE WAR on America and kill off 106,000 people year without a peep from the media.
Who CONTROLS the nation’s ECONOMIC INCENTIVES?
That’s easy – The DEBT DOLLAR TYRANTS!
They rule via…
1. Criminal application of mathematics to the monetary system
2. A free market system that is anything but free when the crooks rigged the monetary system
3. Psychological, sociological, pharmacological, psy op, etc… scientific expertise used to wage a covert war on the American people and the people of the world.Hitler was head of the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party. Hitler was LIBERATING Germans from their neighboring TERRORIST captors. Hitler was controlling TERRORIST Jews who had infiltrated the country. If you didn’t like Hitler, you were SHOUTED DOWN AS UNPATRIOTIC.
All lies, of course, but the GALACTIC CHUMPS that comprise the citizenry suck it in over and over and over AND LEARN ALMOST NOTHING as time progresses.
But people are awakening to the scam, to the con. That’s why the banksters have consolidated assassination power in their Executive Puppet. No jury, no evidence, just death… like those poor infants and grannies they want to kill off deader than a hammer.
It’s all hidden in plain view.
I get it is scary.
“Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.”
…
“It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace–but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”https://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/henry.shtml
The war is an information war and many of us are out fighting tooth and nail to keep the globalists from continuing covertly modify the “food” supply to sterilize mammals and increase cellular inflammation (that’s what the animal studies say, folks – be grown up about this!).
Unfortunately, even smart guys like you can’t “get it.” or at least haven’t gotten it yet.
Read it… it’s all there…
https://responsibletechnology.org/health-risks
Children cancers are skyrocketing, breast cancer rates have tripled in 30 years, Alzheimer’s is skyrocketing, autism 1 in 58 from 1 in 20,000+…
…and nobody questions why these rates are skyrocketing, they just ask for Big Pharma “cures.”
Slow kill, people, slow kill. It reduces population (check), it asset strips citizens (check) and it is slow enough that the average non thinker and anti-conspiracy types will never figure out it is occurring.
Its the perfect plan… the first two are part of the STATED globalist agenda and the latter is simply a rational application of Economics 101 for psychopaths.
The post above proves the following:
The Federal Reserve has lied about their mandate for 25 years running.
The Federal Reserve broke their own law in order to blow the credit bubble and create this ongoing bust – that’s criminal.
More regulation won’t help when existing, foundational regulation is ignored.
The media has not told you the truth.
The education system has not told you the truth.
No politician has told you the truth – not even Ron Paul.
No religious leaders or organizations have told you the truth.
Why is there no interest? ZERO responses on these EPIC REVELATIONS?
Is this too scary for people?
Is this TRUTH to uncomfortable?
Will hiding under the covers really make this horror show go away?
More Videos (this is a series of videos – just let it play or pick a video at the bottom of the screen)
Eat Food & Live in California? You Have a Right to Know – LabelGMOs.org
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJmo8pIahU&feature=BFa&list=PLF4D10F1E15038F89
FDA Deletes 1 Million Signatures for GMO Labeling Campaign – FDA slave to Monsanto?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg8CE2_I8bI&feature=related
Jeffrey Smith GMO update January, 2012 – GMO labeling initiate in California, bad science and more
“Bah. I am not doing any “projecting” here, I’m just recounting for you the history of *people*.”
There, fixed that for ya. Money is the correlation, people’s lack of character is the causation. That’s not to say that the existence of money doesn’t grease the skids… it does. But there is still an important distinction.
“I want to get rid of money because it facilitates humans acting out in immoral ways” is an accurate representation of your position and the facts, IMHO. I get it. That’s a fair position in many ways.
Money is awesome when properly used.
Money is wicked when misused. Demon money is really bad – and it has a choke hold on us right now.
It is all in the use of the money – and people use the money.
ben post=2266 wrote: Triv, I thought we settled this already when you agreed that gift economies are systems designed to overcome greed. the defining feature of a gift economy is its moneylessness. money/agriculture/civilization/totalitarianism is the root of all evil.
Hi ben,
A gift economy and a positive money system (not the demonic one in place now) are is not mutually exclusive.
It is absurdly obvious to me that people’s decisions result in the evil, not the item used to implement said evil.
Blaming outside inanimate objects for evil leads to the absurd conclusion that a lack of straight jackets (preventing us from executing our will) is the “root of all evil.”
After all, if everyone was in straight jackets tied to a pole…
This is elementary stuff, no?
Reverse Engineer post=2263 wrote: [quote=TheTrivium4TW post=2260]Is the computer / internet bad because it enables people to spread disinformation and to cyber bully other people?
This is a very poor analogy Triv.
The Internet does not divide humanity into a class of Haves and Have Nots; the Internet does not serve as Proxy for Ownership of the Resources of the Earth; nor has the Internet been used (yet) as a means to enslave people for millienia. Money has a real bad track record on all levels. It must be abolished forever more.
RE
But if it did, would you abolish the internet?Me thinks you are projecting onto money the problems of humanity.
Some want to blame race. Others want to blame money.
MLK was right, IMHO – it is content of character that matters.
If you don’t focus on the root cause, the problems will never truly be solved.
The problem is not the knife or the gun, the problem is the serial killer.
Since you didn’t like the internet analogy, albeit it was kind of weak, how about guns?
Is the computer / internet bad because it enables people to spread disinformation and to cyber bully other people?
Golden Oxen post=2252 wrote: Money may have become abstract but the people that have a lot of it lavish themselves with a lot of real things with it. Yachts, mansions, luxury cars and clothing etc. Methinks they view it as more thn an abstract thought.
Golden, the debt receipt money isn’t abstract, the concept that there is debt that impoverishes others with no ability to pay that associated debt back) is where the abstraction and deception begins.
People, in general, HAVE NO IDEA that their monetary wealth (save coins, but that’s small) forced someone else to take debt and pay interest.
Bill Gate and Warren Buffett aren’t just worth $10s of billion (or how much actual cash they have), they are also essential “debt slave owners” as members of society owe that debt with no opportunity to ever pay it off because Gates and Buffett aren’t giving up the one thing required to pay it off – their hoards of cash and bank credit.
Reverse Engineer post=2247 wrote: [quote=TheTrivium4TW post=2245]Hi RE,
Thanks for passing on the link to El G.
Whether this is new or not, it seems quite a few “well heeled” people don’t understand it – including all the people who say “The Fed didn’t create the interest.”
They don’t understand the system.
I haven’t ever seen an article that actually breaks down the mechanism of what I call Debt Dollar Tyranny.
I think we both understand that TPTSB will use this collapse they’ve orchestrated to gain even more power and control – I’m looking to Greece and Italy right now… Spain on the way… Ireland in the mix…
The straight to hyperinflation crowd don’t seem to understand the economics of a cartel owning the most debt and dollars and that they will turn that monetary wealth into physical wealth (extracted from society) before they hyperinflate to balance their books.
So, the point is that a lot of people still don’t understand the system and the more we all pound on the table, the more people have a chance to understand the system.
The system hides under a veil of abstraction… if we can pierce that veil, more people will “wake up” all the faster.
Money is an abstract concept to begin with, but it has become ever more abstract over time and this accelerated quite a bit with the development of electronic computing. Money attaches a numerical value to both labor and the resources of the earth. In the Age of Oil and really all fossil fuels, labor has been seriously devalued. It really doesn’t matter that much what you define money as or on what basis you create it either, IMHO. Asl long as people need and value moey as a means to their survival, some people will loan it out at interest and others will borrow it.
the particualr construction of this monetary system benefits a very few at the expense of the many, but in the end think any monetary system at all ends up doing that. Money itself is an Evil Concept which must be erradicated in all its forms. It is the Root of All Evil.
RE
RE, Abstraction is used to hide the evil within the monetary mechanism. That and deception, complexity, black holing certain information and ad Hominem attacks on people who actually discuss relevant issues.Yeah, it is a conspiracy to keep this fraud under wraps – of that the evidence has me convinced.
I side with Bill Still when he says, “It isn’t what backs the money, it is WHO controls its quantity [implied – for WHOSE benefit]”.
Bill Still made a rebuttal to Ed Griffin’s critique – and I think Bill won this particular debate going away…
https://s6.zetaboards.com/Bill_Still_Reforum/topic/1176960/1/
Bill supports limiting government’s ability to excessively increase the money supply – he doesn’t just trust those crooks. It is the people that need to hold the politicians accountable… we need an educated populace or we are doomed.
My analysis leads me to believe that the only real solution requires an educated populace, so I work to help educate people daily.
Money is neither good or evil, it is how it is used.
The actual Scripture says “the love of money” is a root of evil.
For the *love of money* (not money itself) is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
1 Timothy 6:10Of course, those who love money the most will seek to gain control of it and, voila, here we are.
I’m against a valuable asset as “money” because it hasn’t worked for the common person and poor folks can’t afford expensive “money.”
The rich criminal folks just corner the market and hose everyone else – same as it ever was.
pipefit post=2155 wrote: They also own a quadrillion in OTC derivatives. What do they care which way it goes? They already own the whole shebang. And even if the masses get their homes for the price of a loaf of bread, in the coming hyperinflation, they will lose them in property taxes and other taxes and fees levied by the elite and their minions.
They will NOT allow a deflationary bust, in my view. So what if inflation destroys their (and everybody else’s money). Unlike everybody else, they can just create much more for themselves out of thin air. If a deflationary bust was the preferred outcome, it would have happened in 2009.
pipefit, they don’t own the “whole shebang.” They don’t own your home, do they? They want it – and they know how to maximize their chances of getting it.
The phases appear to fit the following format:
1. Inflate to saturate society with debt.
2. When the initial bubble busts, change laws to allow insolvent corporate fronts to lie and claim solvency.
3. Fool the people into handing trillions in cash over to their corporate fronts via QE and the narrative of “jump starting the economy.” No, they are just maximizing the money they receive and the debt they will use to bury society. This is the operation over the last few years and they’ve benefited to the tune of trillions upon trillions of dollars. Why throw away trillions of dollars? They didn’t – nor would a rational actor expect them to.
4. Once the bailout looting of America is complete, and those trillions are sitting waiting to buy up a bankrupted America and the world… then they pull the plug and bust as many people as possible. This will likely be a slow kill process and, in some ways, it is already under way. They are multi-tasking.
5. Buy up America and the world with their fraudulent monetary system.
6. When they have control of the maximum amount of resources, then they will hyperinflate in order to “balance their books” and call it “even.”
7. They might have to use their puppet government to nullify the derivatives once they’ve accomplished their goal – annihilating the various nation state economies so that the private international banking cartel can roll up the nation’s assets when they take the various states into receivership. You know, private monopoly ownership of rain water, utilities, roads (public tax payer built toll roads are starting in Greece!), etc.Tails they win, heads society loses.
Idiots hurt themselves. Machiavellian criminals rob you blind while convincing you they aren’t robbing you so you don’t get mad and accept being looted.
Look, I wish it weren’t so – it is really horrible once you wrap your mind around the evil.
But that’s the plan that makes economic sense.
Hyperinflation right away makes no economic sense given the facts of the case.
ashvin post=2207 wrote: The bond and derivative markets, though, are a different story, even for them.
Which is exactly why they’ve tied society to those debts.
Oh, they will rescind them in time, but only just before they would actually damage the “inner party” cartel.
The derivatives are very useful as a cement anchor to tie to society as it is thrown overboard. The line will be cut when an oligarch risks getting pulled in, though.
pipefit post=2200 wrote: “but it is the THE CARTEL that will make the decisions – “
They could have booted Greece out of the Euro Zone, and chose not to. Or did they really have a choice? I think not. I think a disorderly Greek B.K. would have exposed the cartel as themselves bankrupt.
Look at it this way. The USA has a $15 trillion economy. Take out the government, and it is maybe a $8 trillion annual GDP, private sector. Then take out retail, finance, education, and how much wealth is actually produced. Just a wild guess, I’d say 2 or 3 trillion per year.
And how many trillions in claims are there on that 2 or 3 trillion? There’s nothing here to take. Yeah, they can seize people’s houses, then do what? Rent them out? To whom?
And of course Spain is even worse.
The main thing the cartel has going for it is the military industrial complex, but the ability of the USA to fund that is diminishing quickly. They could start a nuclear war, I suppose, but in that case, you and me won’t have to worry much about earthly matters……………..
Why did the oligarchs of old want to own all the land and resources and treat people like serfs?
It appears to be in their nature.
Have you heard the about the scorpion and the frog?
https://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html
It appears this is simply what they do.
BTW, I’m hoping for hyperinflation so that my neighbors don’t become JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. I want my neighbors to have a chance to actually own their homes.
I “get” that a deflationary depression is simply sicked in a society based on debt. Denninger keeps rooting for it, but I don’t think he actually “gets it.”
It is gonna be wicked when 50% of the money supply disappears.
The crowd that thinks people will reject dollars simply don’t understand the system. To “reject dollars” is to reject debt – and you can’t just do that without losing the asset… which is money destruction and deflation by definition.
Yes, it’s horrible. These people are wicked – it is simply what they do.
So we have to get prepared, build local sustainability and warn others so they can prepare.
Hi RE,
Thanks for passing on the link to El G.
Whether this is new or not, it seems quite a few “well heeled” people don’t understand it – including all the people who say “The Fed didn’t create the interest.”
They don’t understand the system.
Ii haven’t ever seen an article that actually breaks down the mechanism of what I call Debt Dollar Tyranny.
I think we both understand that TPTSB will use this collapse they’ve orchestrated to gain even more power and control – I’m looking to Greece and Italy right now… Spain on the way… Ireland in the mix…
The straight to hyperinflation crowd don’t seem to understand the economics of a cartel owning the most debt and dollars and that they will turn that monetary wealth into physical wealth (extracted from society) before they hyperinflate to balance their books.
So, the point is that a lot of people still don’t understand the system and the more we all pound on the table, the more people have a chance to understand the system.
The system hides under a veil of abstraction… if we can pierce that veil, more people will “wake up” all the faster.
Hi RE,
Fair enough. Be sure to let us know when he posts another article.
I’d still like to see his art applied to this concept as I think it is critical to nail down the very nature of the control mechanism being used to wage economic warfare on the populace…
ben post=2225 wrote:
hey Triv,what i took from the article was that people in gift economies gave in order to receive status. that giving of both assistance and material things elevated one’s social status above others’. the system was set up to deliberately neutralize the human tendency to implicitly care about oneself more than another. while i imagine that a public sense of superiority was looked down upon, it stands to reason that giving a lot and being respected more than less-giving people satisfied peoples’ internal desire for the power that comes with an elevated social status. perhaps egotistical, emotionally selfish members found that by giving more than their fair share of material goods they could achieve more interpersonal success than they otherwise would.
returning to your original statement: aren’t these examples of systems overcoming selfishness?
I think so. The communities that understand human nature and go about trying to mitigate it do the best.
Do keep in mind, though, that the context in which people live are important, too.
Back in the day, when you killed a deer, the meat wasn’t going to last long, so had better share it and hope someone else is able to give some of their deer at some point in the future. The constraints of the day made sharing in one’s self interest.
I think that is what the the founders of the American Republic tried to do – they understood human nature and didn’t so much as try to create a perfect government, but tried to create the least evil government.
We rejected their vision and now we are about to stand to account.
Again, not that their vision was so grand, but that every other vision was quite a bit worse.
Except for, perhaps, what TAE promotes… local communities volunteering to work together (note – no gun pointed to their heads to force them!) for the betterment of their community.
That’s probably the most sustainable model, but the selfish control freaks don’t like it and will point that gun to make sure it doesn’t flourish.
That’s why people who sell real food are being thrown into jail in spite of never hurting anyone (in fact, helping them!) while Big Finance Capital controlled Pharma can kill 106,000 people per year and nobody makes a fuss or makes it a news story.
That’s a 911 death toll every 11 days…
But don’t worry… Death at the hands of a Big Finance Capital corporate front is a great honor – kind of like having the Aztecs sacrifice you back in the day.
ashvin post=2228 wrote:
With regards to this issue of “control”, it all depends. If I remember correctly, you convinced a woman that DN was “controlled” by asking her why they never talk about the Fed system created in 1913 and debt-based money? Do you really see no other plausible explanations? Perhaps Amy Goodman is a paid shill that is being given orders from above, but that is pure speculation, and there are alternate explanations for her ignorance and/or unwillingness to delve into certain subjects. I know plenty of people who have no idea what I’m talking about when I say “debt-based money”, even after I explain the concept to them. There are many factors that go into that resistance to embrace the truth.Hi Ash,
What is up with the disappearing threads? The GMO thread disappears, El G’s Reservation thread disappears – this is very odd.
Once problem mmost people run into is that they tend to not believe a con job exists unless and until the establishment tells them the con job exists.
When the establishment *is* the con job, they won’t tell you Ash, you have to figure it out on your own.
I know Amy Goodman is controlled because the Foundations that support PBS would never pay someone to rat out their criminal societal asset operations.
This is Econ 101.
But let’s go through some data.
1. Dylan Ratigan called the bankers criminals and said they needed to be jailed. He was off the lead of Fast Money within a week. Sure, he’s on MSNBC now, but he’s no longer prime time and I’m sure he’s been “talked to.”
2. Cenk is what I’d refer to as a “thinking liberal” that doesn’t just buy the establishment party line… Listen to the inside methods used to control him…
Why Cenk Uygur Left MSNBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrKKkGl3TnY&feature=relmfu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEYkBA5ze6c
3. When Judge Nap got too close to the bone of the beast, he was fired immediately…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaCemmsnNk
4. Monsanto corporate control of Media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw
Clearly, the economics dictate that privately financed media is controlled.
Clearly, the fruits of the controlled media are there – get out of line and get fired. Every news anchor sees this and acts accordingly.
Now, don’t trust me. Don’t even trust the evidence presented here.
In fact, do your own experiment. Contact Amy Goodman and explain how the Federal Reserve system has criminally broken Section 2A of the Federal Reserve Act for 25 years running and they lie, along with the media, about their singular mandate to “maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy’s long run potential to increase production”
https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section2a.htm
Note the lie in the first paragraph…
https://www.chicagofed.org/webpages/publications/speeches/our_dual_mandate.cfm
What did the Fed do? They broke their singular mandate for 25 years and blew the world’s largest credit bubble in human history AND THAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE COLLAPSE IN 2008 AND THE COMING GREATEST DEPRESSION IN HUMAN HISTORY.
https://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3324744/wmdebt-graph-3-79k
All this is trivial to prove beyond all doubt and would be the world’s biggest, most relevant news story… BUT AMY WON’T TOUCH IT.
She can’t and stay employed.
In addition, Amy Goodman was on site when Building 7’s count down to implosion commenced and the building was “pulled.”
WTC 7 Collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3ea4AC2K8
WTC 7 is about to “blow up”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU_43SwWD9A
Amy Goodman doesn’t talk about this on air.
We Are Change has Amy Goodman on the run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=099BssyN_D4
Kevin Barrett Questions Amy Goodman On Building 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2yC4xgeVMM
Amy Goodman questioned about 911
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXTlxT7gFGk
Kevin Barrett Questions Amy Goodman On Building 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2yC4xgeVMM
Smoking Gun Evidence WTC7 Was A Controlled Demolition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgAJ4sKUp8g
The media is “controlled” Ash. The mechanism to do so is hidden right in plain site.
Debt Dollar Tyranny systematically asset strips humanity for the benefit of a small inner party. That inner party then uses the “free market” over lay in order to buy up control of anything and everything they deem as a strategic interest in order to further their agenda.
They aren’t going to pay people to rat out their humanity impoverishing and destroying criminal agenda, now are they?
Nor are they going to tell you or I or anyone else what they are doing.
We have to gather data, apply logic and then explain data and logic to get the truth out there…
That, my friend, is the Trivium method at work… and that is why they don’t teach this method to the proles.
Instead, they bury the proles in emotionally charged logical fallacy so that people are convinced of something without doing any research at all in many cases.
skipbreakfast post=2232 wrote: El G is an artist and out-of-the-box thinker. And those kinds of guys are hard to keep down on the farm at the best of times, so I guess I am not surprised he’s bolted.
I completely agree.
IMHO, El G should not leave any reservation, he should simply not tie himself down to a reservation at all. He’s a free actor and I hope he realizes that he’s only robbing the readership of his talents and insights.
We are all in this together and I feel cheated that El G bailed here as his comments were something lots of us valued for their insight and entertainment value.
It is true that some people here have one foot in the Matrix, but that’s gonna happen. We have to have tough skins to bring a message that is so scary that most people viscerally abhor it.
El G, you are in a great position to educate people and inspire people.
I’m not saying you should exclusively post here at TAE – you insight and “art” is valuable everywhere.
My sole goal is to get as many people as possible to begin questioning the system after learning some history, learning what really goes on today (the news consists of legal lies) and then, with that base in place – question EVERYTHING.
The more people I talk to, the more I learn.
El G, we are in a brawl for the minds of our fellow Americans.
The mental tyranny is strong…
“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.”
~Thomas JeffersonYou aren’t the only one getting beat up fighting the tyrants, although, you might get more heat because you get more exposure.
This is the end game and we need everyone of conscience “swinging” with all they have to resist this tyranny or else the end will 100% be ugly and we will have contributed.
Get you ideas out so they can kick the fraudulent lies of the establishment and people have a better opportunity to wake up.
They are waking up… more every day.
We need your help.
Damon Vrable got frustrated and quit. We miss him dearly. We all have to stand and fight in peace because, if we don’t give it a shot, misguided violence will eventually ensue.
bluebird post=2233 wrote: skipbreakfast said “have you tried talking to your family and co-workers lately? They won’t even entertain square one let alone conspiracy one-hundred.”
You definitely got that right. People just can’t think that their lives could be anything different, this way of life is ‘normal’. If one talks about something that doesn’t fit their way of ‘normal’, then we are ‘losing it’.
It just seems that the longer everything appears ‘normal’, when this global financial Ponzi bubble bursts, it will be epic. So perhaps we should do whatever is considered ‘normal’ by others, enjoy life and have fun.
Because when it is all said and done, aren’t we going to survive by being creative and lucky. And nature bats last. All the preparations one can do, mean nothing if one is flattened by a tornado or hurricane or tsunami or earthquake or other nature event.
I too miss El G’s commentary, also that of snuffy, greenpa, nobody and others.
I can’t recall the podcast, but a British commentator made the following two points:
1. “Americans are scared of one thing and on thing only. Inconvenience.”
2. “The don’t even bother to lie to the British people. The good news is they have to lie to the American people. The bad news is that it is so *easy* to lie to the American people.
Veritas.
As for partying while “Rome” burns, I think it all comes down to values.
One chooses to either be part of the problem or part of the solution. I simply don’t want to be part of the problem. In other words, if everyone did what I did, the systemic fraud would end in short order.
My efforts are sufficient – everyone else can chose to be part of the problem and most do right now. When they are fully looted, that will likely change.
I was giving the “run down” to a front desk clerk at a local health club – I was trying to put up GMO labelling initiative flyers up at the front desk. Anyway, she was kind of overwhelmed, but she kind of nervously laughed when I said the system was engineered to make debt slaves out of us. I asked if she was following Greece and, if not, to begin to do so.
I clearly hit a line she didn’t want to cross… but we are being pushed over the line whether we like it or not. By design.
Anyway, I’m fighting back.
You are likely right that it will be luck that gets most people through this, but “luck” is some part preparation.
If I was completely ignorant of the toxins being put in my food, in my water, of a fraudulent monetary system engineered to bankrupt me, of a corrupt media that legally lies every day, I would appreciate the “heads” up from someone who did know this information.
It’s all about making an attempt to care for others as we’d have them care for ourselves.
And no – I’m not high up on the popularity list of most friends and family… But I’m not trying to popular… I’m trying to help people understand and prepare for the global financial flood that is about to swamp nearly everyone.
Truth be told, everyone needs to stand for something or they will fall for anything. When a few people stand up, it is trivial to beat them back down.
When everyone stands up, what’s the use of beating down one or two?
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.”
Albert EinsteinBTW RE,
I believe the following with all my heart and all my essence – “good lasts forever, everything else is a waste of time.”
However, I don’t believe that greed laced humanity will pull it off, rather, I believe that supernatural intervention will be required to keep narcissistic humanity from destroying this entire planet.
Even so, “good lasts forever, everything else is a waste of time” – so why waste what little time we have hurdling through space on a big rock?
I know this – and I still end burning far too much time on “waste of time” stuff.
Reverse Engineer post=2219 wrote: Nobody realizes just how much of their own behaviors are acculturated. I our society since Greed is so well rewarded and has been for a VERY long time, the assumption is that Greed is a fundamental and uderlying attribute of the Human Species. I do not believe this to be true.
Greed is one of many attributes Homo Sapiens can display, and it can be rewarded or punished right from birth really. Societies can develop in many different ways, and they have through the evoltuon of the species, but Greed Reward in its current form is a very recent development overall.
The Potlatch societies developed unde much different parameters in a time of great surplus relative to the total number of people inhabiting a given ecosystem. That they existed at all however demonstrates conclusively that Greed is not an inherent zHuman Behavior, but merely one which is learned in certai environments under a certain set of parameters. Once the society develops around that, its a very difficult Cancer to remove. It metasticizes quickly.
Of the people who discuss these questions with me, I tend to be in the minority overall, since I have great faith in the resilience of Human Nature and the ability of Good to Triumph over Evil. I look at fundamentals of human nature and at the parameters we live under, and I see that there are posibilities for change and for a Better Tomorrow. I just do not see that those changes will come without a massive dislocation in our current ways of living or without a massive die off of many currently walking the Earth.
Evil will not win this battle, not in the end, not IMHO. It is written, “The Meek shall Inherit the Earth”. I don’t buy that because I am a Christian or even a Biblical Scholar, I am neither. I believe it to be true because it is what I see in nature. Power Seekers eventually self immolate, their own Greed consumes them. The societies they build also self immolate eventually. The problem for all of us living here and now in this time frame is that we are at the end of a grand supercycle where Greed has consumed Mankind. When it goes down, and go down it will, it will nto be pretty at all. In the end though, I believe in my heart that some will emerge standing from the Zero Point, and it will not be the Illuminati, it will be some few of the Meek who see it through to the end of the dark days to come. It will take Luck and Planning, and probably the Finger of God to see you through, but I think it can be done.
It is my goal in writing as I do to encourage all not to Lose Hope, not to Give Up here. Yes, the immediate future is very bleak indeed. Not Hopeless though, not yet. It is only Hopeless if you GIVE UP Hope. I am not willing to do that, and I do not think once the Conduits fail that this Evil system can be perpetuated. It WILL come down, just as the Tower of Babel came crashing down. Wait for it. When it comes, you will KNOW it. Then is the once in a millenia CHANCE you have to make the CHANGE that we MUST make to survive as a species. It CAN be done.
I take it you don’t believe the literal story of Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel. 😉
As for greed being “rewarded” – only in the mind of the greedy. 😉
Divide you day up into increments and determine how much of your day is done to benefit you and yours and how much is done to benefit others.
How is it caring to buy a luxury vehicle instead of a more practical vehicle and spend the rest of the money feeding the starving?
Do you think a starving 10 year old whose parents are both dead would view how Americans live and consider them to care about his welfare the same way we care about our own welfare?
@ben, I get the gist of what Henderson is saying – but the difference is in definition. I actually agree that it is in our true “selfish” self interest to treat others as we would like to be treated. An enlightened “selfish” person would actually treat others equal to themselves because that’s the ONLY way to lasting peace, prosperity and happiness.
But that’s not how I originally defined “selfish.” I defined it as failing to care about others equal to oneself and that is how people act on a daily basis. I know – people don’t want their dirty laundry exposed, but I deal in reality when I can.
That doesn’t mean that kindness doesn’t happen – it does. All the time. But caring for others EQUAL to how one cares for oneself is no small j-o-b.
Golden Oxen post=2218 wrote: @TheTrivium4TW If there was ever and icon for TPTB to laugh at us in public and show us how little they regard us and our intelligence it is this despicable Corzine character. His smirking, grinning, Mickey The Dunce act testimony made me nauseous. If he isn’t living proof that they control the press,media, legal system, regulatory agencies etc. What or who is? Any doubts I had about an inner circle of arrogant greedy swine running the show were cured by him. He makes me ashamed as well as angry at the corruption in the system.
Exactly – but Corzine is actually good for America. So is Obama.
Their offenses are so grand, their lies so “in your face,” one either has to admit the table is tilted, the game is rigged, as George Carlin said, or one has to run away as fast as they can to get under their bed covers and hide.
People who used to resist the idea criminal oligarchs ran the show are now sending me emails about how they rig the oil markets and the media covers it up.
We went insane all at once… but we are waking up one at a time…
And that worries “the establishment.”
The more they squeeze and asset strip the people, the more the people identify the tyranny and resist it.
Properly understood, DHS is the receivership arm of these criminals – set up to enforce the national bankruptcy. That’s their plan, anyway.
We need to work to tip over their “apple cart.” Many won’t listen now, but they will know who to contact when this thing really gets ugly.
ashvin post=2204 wrote: I largely agree with the sentiments expressed in the comments by RE and ben, and I think this discrepancy is a fundamental part of why you and I, and perhaps El G, have different “big pictures”. If I could sum up the difference in one sentence, it would be this:
The system breeds the sociopathic elites, rather than the other way around.
…
but I do believe we can say with confidence that they are currently being, and will continue to be, confronted with events that are outside of their control and deleterious to their plans.Hi Ash, yes we do disagree on the selfish nature of people. Perhaps it is a definition issue. My definition of “selfish” is not caring for others equal to oneself.
If you think everyone cares for others equal to themselves, but the system somehow forces them to buy a Beemer for $50k instead of buying a Corolla for $10k and spending $40k feeding the starving, then we disagree. In fact, one of my main thesis is that Big Finance Capital are experts at using our selfish nature against us. The bubble only occurred because society was greedy. They couldn’t do it alone – and Nicole is right that the prey played right into the hands of the predator. She’s right – but I’m going to spend the majority of time warning the community about the r*pist.
Of course the system plays its role – but it is ever so easy for selfish, narcissistic people to fit right into that systemic role, isn’t it? We all want to be seen as good, but doing good is where the hard work comes in.
How many Nicoles are there out of the 1,000,000 billion who could do what she is doing? I know I’m getting almost no love from friends and family and most strangers. Most people who do “get it” have been “burned by the stove,” as it were.
Regarding your theory that conspiracy theorists think of Big Finance Capital as God Himself with super control of everything… who does that? Don’t say Alex Jones – because he doesn’t.
No, they aren’t in control of everything, but they are in control of every major establishment organization that they deem critical to their agenda. At least at the top. The lower level folks tend to follow orders and don’t need to know details.
They just want their pension and to avoid hassle for the most part – that’s the economic over lay in play.
Don’t think that these crooks didn’t know a bust was gonna come, though. They knew a bust was going to come in 1913 when they set this system up. They’ve been preparing for it ever since.
That’s why you and I eat their losses and Corzine can steal $1.6 billion, lie about it under oath, get caught lying and nothing happens.
But the farmer who sells a portion of his cows to sell raw milk gets $1,000,000 bond as he’s thrown into jail.
Now, nobody has been injured (except Big Pharma profits from healthy people – got that?), but he’s in prison while Big Pharma executes as many people as died on 911 every 11 DAYS and nothing happens.
Anatomy of a Conspiracy
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/anatomy-of-a-conspiracy/
BTW, That’s about 1,200,000 people DEADER THAN A DOOR NAIL at the hands of Big Pharma since 911.
This would be the #1 news story in the nation if the media would pound on it. But they won’t.
Just like I explained to the “Democracy Now” woman who tried to argue DN wasn’t controlled, “Controlled.”
They are controlled. There are limits.
An why wouldn’t there be? If I controlled who bought major news networks, I wouldn’t allow anyone hostile to my interests to buy the station (I’d disallow the loan or outbid them with friendlies).
Economics 101.
pipefit post=2198 wrote: The Tri-“Someone claimed I was wrong when I claimed the debt holders would make the debtors pay, not themselves.”
You are wrong. You’re focusing too narrowly. The main creditors are the Asians, and the main debtors are the developed nations of the West. How is china gonna make us pay?
We can’t pay, so we won’t. The question is if we can default in a manner that doesn’t bring down the world’s economy by 30% or 40%. Quite frankly, I don’t know.
Look what happened to Japan, when we inflated away 2/3 of our debt to her. The Japanese were in a bind and needed that money, and then, poof, it wasn’t there. Given the state of the Chinese banking system, it looks bad.
At some point, China is going to demand geopolitical concessions for being cheated out of their currency reserves.
Who owns more debt than the private international banking cartel that controls the Federal Reserve?
What price the new democracy? Goldman Sachs conquers Europe
You know, the group that has taken over Europe without firing a shot (and NOT by bailing them out) and WHO will control the destiny of America?
You may well be correct that international debt is higher than international banking cartel debt, but it is the THE CARTEL that will make the decisions – and they may well enjoy another excuse for major war and population reduction… if you know WHO they are… you’ll know what I mean.
ashvin post=2185 wrote: [quote=jal post=2184]
What else would one expect when trying to solve a debt problem by piling on more layers of unproductive debt?
Exchange/replace the “unproductive debt” for a cash producing/generating asset. (printing press heheheh)
Yes, that’s one of the things that the EZ periphery including Spain need to do. Print away their debts, or, better still, establish a legitimate debt moratorium/forgiveness program. They cannot do either of those things in a meaningful way as long as they remain a part of the Union.
And their politicians under the thumb of the Debt Dollar Tyrants.Sovereign money can exist, but it doesn’t maximize profits for Debt Dollar Tyrants – and they are orchestrating world events right now… the people have to wake up to their “Art of War” or else the future is more bleak than the bleak future we face for willfully falling into their credit bubble trap.
MayAllBWell post=2187 wrote: Ash, I read recently on ZH about the possibly near introduction of Floating Rate Notes by the US Treasury. ZH seems to think this is a huge deal. I reread the article as well as posted questions on their blog, but I still haven’t had it explained to me in a way I can understand. Would you be willing to what ZH and Prof Singh are trying to say about the significance of FRN and why that means to “Get Out of Dodge” (do they mean Equities?) in this post:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/if-1951-accord-any-indication-treasurys-imminent-launch-floaters-will-be-signal-get-out-dodgeThank you!
Hi MAB,
I’m sure Ash will go into more detail, but my take is that ZH is speculating that the necessity of floating rate notes to get people to still buy treasuries as interest rates rise.
Without floating rate notes, people would resist buying treasuries because they’d get murdered by ever increasing rates.
Of course, the treasury holders are mostly inner party members and their corporate fronts, so this would mostly a bailout by another name.
ZH seems to be calling for Obama or Romney to reign in the Fed, but I think they are wrong. I think the banksters put someone in office with, shall we say, “liabilities,” to ensure that he follows through on his bankster operative agendas…
The international financiers are running the show now.
Golden Oxen post=2189 wrote: Everyone is going to need a bailout soon. Let’s not go down the list one at a time with the attendant nitty gritty. Can they print there way out of this debt horror or can’t they? Therein lies the rub.
“Printing” bails out the debtors (sheep), taking the nation’s into receivership as they all go bankrupt enriches and empowers the debt holders (wolves).
Go ahead and bet on the wolves bailing out the sheep.
I bet that the wolves eat the sheep.
See previous my post for why QE was enacted – the narrative wasn’t reality. It rarely ever is.
Don’t believe me… blind belief is bad (not that you would – you think my view is abhorrent).
But keep the idea on the back shelf. The Fed came out today and is laying the groundwork for letting deflation hit so they can asset strip society one more time.
I think QE3 may occur – but it won’t be to “jump start the economy” or “bail out debtors.”
It will be to enrich the inner party and to indebt everyone else. Same as it always was.
These wolves wear suits and they act as some kind of cloaking device for the evil that dwells within those suits.
The insiders aren’t hoarding trillions in cash and debt and giving away 4% mortgages because the insiders are going to “print” all their own wealth away.
Not.
Gonna.
Happen.
The inner party has been working on this “end game” scenario since they installed Debt Dollar Tyranny back in 1913. This isn’t anything new or unexpected – they KNEW the end would look like this almost 100 years ago.
Hi All,
“Printing” is just as much a default as defaulting. The only difference is WHO will take the loss.
Will it be the debtors or the debt holders?
The debtors are obviously banking, pun intended on the debt holders taking the loss.
That’s an interesting bet since the debt holders will decide who will take the loss – and they’ve ripped the face of the debtors every chance they’ve had up until now.
QE was not about helping the economy any more than the Fed has a dual mandate (they don’t – read Section 2A of the Federal Reserve Act for yourself – their mandate is singular… they are lying and so is academia and the media).
Quantative Easing was all about using public money to quantitatively ease the losses of the inner party players at the expense of everyone else.
In other words, they used public money to 1. get better prices for themselves as they exit the markets and 2. make sure the public is blasted with even more debt as the bag holders for the various markets.
Someone claimed I was wrong when I claimed the debt holders would make the debtors pay, not themselves.
They claimed derivatives meant the debt holders would bail out the debtors.
Last I heard, the derivatives were bets against higher interest rates (the bank side, anyway). It sounds to me like they will collapse the economy, drive rates down near zero and then use government to invalidate all those derivatives just before they hyperinflate to balance their books.
The table is tilted, people. The game is rigged.
JP Morgan isn’t giving out 4% 30 mortgages because they are going to super inflate anytime soon.
They haven’t ripped off debtor faces for decades only to bail them out at the end.
These are some cold SOBs.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debt.”
~Henry FordGot that? Ford was in a very good position to know – and he’s dead on about people not understanding Debt Dollar Tyranny, too.
I understand how El G feels – in many ways my views are extremely similar to his, but his writing style is fluid and artistic while mine is more rigid (and less appealing to the majority of people).
I think El G is correct in much of his analysis, but I think he made a miscalculation.
TAE has chosen to serve a niche market – and a much needed one.
El G is correct that TAE isn’t the BIG, BIG picture, but nor is it trying to be.
I have no doubt that TAE’s controllers have a good reason for this approach – perhaps to keep the site’s material from triggering the automatic mental shut down mode when about 50% of the population reads non Central State sanctioned ideas.
Or maybe it is to fly under the radar of the Debt Dollar Tyrants – no use putting on a sheep suit for the wolves.
While TAE isn’t my “everything in one bottle,” it is still very valuable for its intended person.
Despising the nature of tyrants, I think it is great that other people can choose to focus on things differently than the way I might think is optimal.
I tend value content of character more than anything else – even agreement. I sense a good, kind, helping character here at TAE and that’s a good thing.
I get the same “vibe” from Charles Hugh Smith and his contributor Zeus as well.
Good people is where it is at.
I also appreciate much of Karl Denninger’s analysis, but I really don’t like his tyrant personality issues… Not cool. But he’s free to be that way and I still value much of his insight and input and disregard what doesn’t resonate.
El G, I’d love to have you back here, but I’ll find where you post anyway… Just remember that TAE never intended to be the “be all end all” of world affairs. I agree there should be a place for that, it just isn’t TAE.
Having said that, I think a forum dedicated to “Conspiracy Theory” here at TAE would add value to TAE. Those that want to contribute could and those that don’t could stay far away.
“Can’t we all get along?” 😉
PS – Ash, I agree with you that Capitalism ends ugly every single time. I also am convinced Communism does as well – and usually much faster. The former takes time to aggregate corrupting power where the latter starts out with corrupting power.
The root cause is human selfishness… at the top, in the management class, in the middle class, in the low class and even among the poverty stricken. Those that read the Bible might phrase it thusly, “failing to love (care for) one another as as we love (care for) ourselves.” AKA, sin.
No system can overcome selfishness.
Having said that, the best chance at a workable system contains two elements, IMHO:
1. Free markets.
2. A population that absolutely ABHORS anything BIG.I think that could work for a long, long time, but the problem is nobody cares about their society enough to really invest any mental capital into understanding why those two principles are so very important.
Debt Dollar Tyranny would be a capital crime, of course.
A 5% tax to take care of the poor and needy where 93% of the money would actually have to help poor and needy would be doable, too – or similar. The point is I’m not talking about burying the disabled the poor here.
Hi Ashvin,
The economic veneer over laying Debt Dollar Tyranny that systematically asset strips society for the benefit of the Debt Dollar Tyrants is working exactly as intended.
Should it not work, “The Kennedy” is Plan B.
Hi RE,
If you read the part of my post you didn’t quote, the 100 or so (as a possibility and little more – I have no idea what the true number is) excluded the managers, which you then add back in to challenge the 100 number.
Rothkopf thinks the high level decision makers number about 6,000 – as cited in his book Superclass. This may well include just the management team of the The Architects and not the Architects themselves – they don’t like spotlights, just authoritarian control.
I agree that a systems approach is very valuable, in fact necessary, to get a grip on what is going on here.
But I wouldn’t dismiss The Architects of the system as readily as you do. Obviously, this crime scene is intergenerational, but the current generation operating it have incredible wealth, influence and control – and ending this system will only cause them to create another.
Yes, it is ultimately crime that is bad when you are a victim, but to ignore the criminal who perpetrated it is to pretty much ensure another crime manifestation will show itself in the future.
Regarding the idea that one just “lose confidence in the dollar.”
That’s not true for people with dollar denominated debt.
If you think you can just lose confidence in your debts, you will have another thing coming.
Remember, a dollar isn’t a dollar… it is an interest bearing debt receipt… You have to pay up – AND YOU HAVE TO DO SO IN DOLLARS.
The debt holders aren’t going to bail out the entirety of society.
NOT.
GONNA.
HAPPEN.
“When Money is Debt; Wealth is Poverty” explains the mechanics of Debt Dollar Tyranny.
